Artillery: News & Discussion

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Oct 2016 22:58

This EVO-105 type system can be a real game changer for an assaulting force. It is highly mobile, lightweight, and a few with a quick and nimble assaulting force can hammer any enemy resistance from a close enough range with fairly good precision.

No need to radio back for the entrenched 52 cal big guns to target onlee, the assaulting force can take out any resistance it faces on the go!

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 21 Oct 2016 01:50

India gets closer to acquiring US Ultra Light Howitzers

NEW DELHI: India has progressed to the final stage of acquiring the long awaited 145 number of Ultra Light Howitzer artillery guns- to be deployed opposite Pakistan and China- from the US, with a major roadblock being cleared today.

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) led by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today cleared all the variations present in India’s demands regarding the artillery gun made to the US and what the US in turn offered. “In today’s DAC meeting, all these aberrations between India’s Letters of Request and the US’s Letters of Acceptance were cleared,” said Defence Ministry sources.

"And now we can formulate the contract after sanction of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS). Then start the procurement of the guns between India and the US," said the sources.

The DAC today also sanctioned another case of purchasing 4900 Tadiran radio sets for T-90 and T-72 tanks, said sources. These tanks are located along the border with Pakistan and the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China.

"The existing deficiency of these sets in the army is being made up by going for this repeat order. A special sanction was given by the DAC for this order," said sources, adding that these radio sets will be acquired faster, as they are a repeat order.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Oct 2016 12:15

Excellent news.Along with this the orders for desi Bofors/Dhanush should be accelerated.

http://defencenews.in/article/Borders-w ... oned-18844

Borders will now Boom with the M-777 Howitzers :: Rs. 4500 crore deal sanctioned
Friday, October 21, 2016
By: India Today

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today cleared the proposals for acquiring 145 M777 155 mm ultra light howitzers from the US.

This is the first time that guns are being purchased for the Army since bofors in 1987. These are light howitzers which can be flown to the mountain areas and will be deployed along the mountainous lines bordering both Pakistan and China.

India will be buying the 155 mm M777 guns at a cost of about Rs 4500 crore. This is first major buy for the Mountain Strike Corps. Earlier gun-maker BAE systems had tied up with India's Mahindra for the deal.

The proposal had been in the pipeline for several years, despite being cleared more than thrice by the Defence Ministry under Parrikar as well as his UPA predecessor, AK Antony.

The Army has not procured a single howitzer ever since the Bofors guns were acquired from Switzerland in the 1980s.

OTHER PROPOSALS ::

The other important proposal that the DAC may consider is the acquisition of almost 5,000 combat net radio sets for tactical communication of Army troops.

The DAC is to consider if the radio sets should be procured under the Make in India scheme or to be bought from the Israeli firm Elbit, according to the Army proposal.

The Indian Air Force is also likely to put up its proposal to upgrade its unmanned aerial vehicles that would be enhanced to combat platforms under the top secret Project Cheetah.*(First time this prog. name has emerged?)
IAF officials declined to comment on the top secret project, which is likely to cost Rs10,000 crore.

What is the M777 Ultra Light Howitzer?

1) The M777 Howitzer is used by the United States Marine Corps.
2) It was used by the US in Afghanistan after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
3) It is manufactured by BAE Systems' Global Combat Systems division.
4) It can be transported by trucks and helicopters.
5) It provides accurate fire up to a range of 40 kms.
6) It is also used by Australia and Canada.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 07 Nov 2016 05:32

Here we go again...

Border tense but red tape hits Army acquisition of big guns
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Defence ministry sources said the Pentagon's "letter of offer and acceptance (LoA)" to sell 145 the M-777s to India for $737 million "expired" on Saturday. "The LoA for the government-to-government deal was valid only till November 5. The contract can be signed only after the Cabinet committee on security gives the final nod after the finance ministry's clearance," said a source.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 07 Nov 2016 08:24

^More than shenanigans of rahul and kejri over death of Subedar Grawal ji, this sort of news must bring low moral and sadness to the heart of families of Sainiks serving on border.

Though even if ordered today these may start tickling only after 3 - 4 years.

But for a 12 year old boy whose father is a Sainik on border engaged in fire fight with porkis, must leave a very bad feeling about his govt.

This shows very uncaring attitude of politicians, more so of self proclaimed nationalists.

Not that they don't have money, they are buying 200 to 300 MII fighters. Giving order in august wouldn't have bankrupted parrikar and jaitley's ministries..... but just chalta hai, baad meing dekh lenge attitudes of politicos.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 07 Nov 2016 13:55

Has even one 155mm been fired in the present incidents? While artillery upgradation is required but we cannot allow this type of manipulative propaganda for imports.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Nov 2016 14:19

Rakesh wrote:Here we go again...

Border tense but red tape hits Army acquisition of big guns
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Defence ministry sources said the Pentagon's "letter of offer and acceptance (LoA)" to sell 145 the M-777s to India for $737 million "expired" on Saturday. "The LoA for the government-to-government deal was valid only till November 5. The contract can be signed only after the Cabinet committee on security gives the final nod after the finance ministry's clearance," said a source.

A typical article to pressure GoI to make emergency purchases. This has paid-news written all over it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2016 17:51

Rakesh wrote:Here we go again...

Border tense but red tape hits Army acquisition of big guns
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Defence ministry sources said the Pentagon's "letter of offer and acceptance (LoA)" to sell 145 the M-777s to India for $737 million "expired" on Saturday. "The LoA for the government-to-government deal was valid only till November 5. The contract can be signed only after the Cabinet committee on security gives the final nod after the finance ministry's clearance," said a source.

The Defence ministry and so many other government depts are so murky it's difficult to know the truth. Some babu could have stored away the file deliberately - only to bring it up now. Parikkar in an early interview had openly stated that files in the defence ministry go around in circles and no one knows exactly what is happening. In another thread I had mentioned how files move only via designated channels allowing multiple choke points

morem · Post by **morem** » 07 Nov 2016 20:04

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 295197.cms

MOD clears defence deals worth over Rs 82,000 crore, procurement of 83 Tejas jets and 464 tanks

Approved prourement of SIX pinaka regiments

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Nov 2016 01:36

‏@livefist
BREAKING: Indian MoD's Defence Acquisition Council clears purchase of six more Pinaka MBRL regiments for the Army.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 08 Nov 2016 02:34

are these over and above the 2 ordered in sept?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Nov 2016 16:58

+ getting stocks of ammo asap from Russia and Israel before 2016 ends.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 08 Nov 2016 17:31

There seems some confusion.

Did the DAC approve of 6 regiments of Pinaka or 6th regiment needs to be clarified.

3rd and 4th regiments were cleared last october as per the report.

If 6 regiments, then it takes total to 10 regiments of Pinaka. Incredible onlee..
But i get a sense that its 2 additional regiments cleared, leading the total to 6 regiments.

Do we have another source, preferably a press release by MoD with the above details ? For now its just the ET report..

rohiths · Post by **rohiths** » 08 Nov 2016 18:54

How many missiles is a regiment ?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Nov 2016 18:58

Considering the total no of BM 21 in service was ~ 100. 6 regiments will result in ~ 120 no in service. So it is broadly consistent with the holding patterns of the IA.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 08 Nov 2016 19:13

A Pinaka Regiment has around 10,000 rockets

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Nov 2016 20:11

We already have 2 x Pinaka Regiments. The present news is about 6 new regiments. This takes it to a total of 8 regiments. If the news about 3rd and 4th regiment being sanctioned few months back is true, than it would take it to 10 regiments.

As for BM-21, we have a grand total of only 5 regiments.

BTW, each Pinaka Regiment has 18 x launchers while Smerch has 12 x launchers.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Nov 2016 23:45

Rohitvats any progress in precision fuzes for 155mm artillery? Hope GPS rounds wont end up costing so much that its only for annual exercise.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 17 Nov 2016 01:27

HI Rohit,
Why is there a difference in number of launchers of Pinaka v/s Smerch.
Also, just noticed that napakis also have 200+ units of its failed variant A-100E. That makes it ~10 regiments, for a small nation as theirs with whatever production facilities, it is a big number. Is it true or is it Pakistani's representing 1 paki system ==10 indian system ..hence for equalization purpose they gave 200 no.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 17 Nov 2016 10:18

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 467580.cms 17th Nov news

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Nov 2016 10:29

ranjan.rao wrote:HI Rohit,
Why is there a difference in number of launchers of Pinaka v/s Smerch.
Also, just noticed that napakis also have 200+ units of its failed variant A-100E. That makes it ~10 regiments, for a small nation as theirs with whatever production facilities, it is a big number. Is it true or is it Pakistani's representing 1 paki system ==10 indian system ..hence for equalization purpose they gave 200 no.

Pakis have some of units off Chinese copy of Smerch, but like all wiki figures Pakis generally exaggerate, for eg when in 1998 when Nuke tests were conducted Pakis claimed to have 400 Haft-1, 400 Haft-2, 400 Hatf-3 all nuclear capable , all with its own launchers.

They can never appear weaker or have lesser numbers, but they have definately upgraded a lot of capabilities in the 2005-15 period where we seem to have done very little.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 17 Nov 2016 21:16

Modi govt buries Bofors ghost, acquires 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers from US

The offsets, under which BAE Systems, manufacturer of the gun, will invest about USD 200 million, will be pursued independently.

While 25 guns will come to India in a fly away condition, the rest will be assembled at the proposed Assembly Integration and Test facility for the weapon system in India in partnership with Mahindra.

The first two howitzers will be delivered within six months of the contract being inked, while rest will be delivered at the rate of two per month.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 17 Nov 2016 21:28

^^Thanks Aditya

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2016 22:08

large russian anti artillery system

https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/7 ... 9335665664

Russian Ministry of Defense @ mod_russia Nov 16
Shield military objects from the imaginary enemy artillery fire with the help of the complex # Mercury experts # REB in the Urals # CVO

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2016 22:10

^^ from the comment and the arty shells exploding in the air, it seems it somehow fools the radar proximity fuse of the inbound arty shells into thinking they are already very close to the ground and hence time to detonate.
the grad fired the inbound objects for testing

Spartak Abdurashitov @ ASpartanes Nov 16
@ El_temif Reby cheat system undermining warhead telling him that he was already in the ground and it is time vzryvatsya.no receiver if art has, alas

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2016 22:12

^^ its the RTUT-BM here https://in.rbth.com/economics/2015/02/1 ... tems_41393

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Nov 2016 23:04

Kakkaji wrote:Modi govt buries Bofors ghost, acquires 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers from US

The offsets, under which BAE Systems, manufacturer of the gun, will invest about USD 200 million, will be pursued independently.

While 25 guns will come to India in a fly away condition, the rest will be assembled at the proposed Assembly Integration and Test facility for the weapon system in India in partnership with Mahindra.

The first two howitzers will be delivered within six months of the contract being inked, while rest will be delivered at the rate of two per month.

Bofors was p[lain corruption by one individual Rajiv Gandhi. Yet the Congress successfully blamed it on the the gun and managed to hamstrung the Indian Army.

Their leader was corrupt yet they blamed the gun for the corruption!

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 19 Nov 2016 13:22

Kakkaji wrote:Modi govt buries Bofors ghost, acquires 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers from US

And I thought that we had already inducted Dhanush...

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 19 Nov 2016 15:17

What about L&T one?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 19 Nov 2016 17:11

^^ A different category of Howitzer no? Plus, the contract has not been signed yet.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 19 Nov 2016 18:32

Jut 2 guns per month ??

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Nov 2016 20:40

It's ofb what do you expect.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 20 Nov 2016 02:42

Pratyush wrote:It's ofb what do you expect.

No, it is Mahindra in collaboration with the BAe for the M-777 order.

2 guns per month for specialized ultra-lightweight is not too bad IMHO.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Nov 2016 13:33

^ Jingo will take even 1 gun per month.

With CFA in J&K reaching a point where howitzers will be required soon, we need new guns with even greater urgency. Unfortunately the upgunned M-46s are not ideal for J&K due to limited elevation.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Nov 2016 10:08

What exactly is a ”Assembly Integration and Test” facility?

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 21 Nov 2016 11:30

abhik wrote:What exactly is a ”Assembly Integration and Test” facility?

Meaning facility to unpack/assemble SKD kits from BAe before delivery to Army. Nothing except screwdriver will be built here.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Nov 2016 21:20

^^^
I get the idea of doing screwdriver-giri of say fighter aircraft which have tens of thousands of parts and can take years to assemble. But a towed howitzer like M777?

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 21 Nov 2016 21:52

abhik wrote:^^^
I get the idea of doing screwdriver-giri of say fighter aircraft which have tens of thousands of parts and can take years to assemble. But a towed howitzer like M777?

Crown jewel of technology in M777 is the use of titanium alloys in most of its construction to bring down its weight.

At no cost US will share its metallurgy with us.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Nov 2016 23:17

Sid, The article clearly states Assembly, Integration, and test facility. I don't think the Ti barrel will be made in India. It will be imported too.
First 25 guns will be fully assembled and then rest will be assembled at the AIT facility by Mahindra at rate of 2/month.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 22 Nov 2016 00:46

So someone confirm my understanding of Dhanush and Bofors.

3 X Dhanush have been handed over to the army for trials in June.
If and When Successful, enough will be manufactured to equip one regiment. Some say the number is 24.
Question: Can anyone confirm or deny this ?
Sub Question: How many guns in a Field Artillety Regiment (like Bofors).
Question: Has the army placed an order for this version of Dhanush (Version 1.0)

Meanwhile Dhanush is giving rise to the Version 2.0 of Dhanush aka the Future Towed Artillery System for the Artillery in the plains of INDIA.
Question: Has the army placed an order for this version of Dhanush (Version 2.0)