Artillery: News & Discussion

Kakarat
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Kakarat » 16 Aug 2014 15:54


SanjayC
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby SanjayC » 16 Aug 2014 16:33



There is hope for this project as private companies like Bharat Forge are involved. DRDO needs to operate purely as a designer and system integrator, with major components being outsourced to reputed private companies.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby VinodTK » 18 Aug 2014 00:19


srai
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby srai » 18 Aug 2014 08:00

^^^

The IA is not going to get any new foreign guns. With that realisation, hopefully they will collaborate on making indigenous gun(s) a success.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2014 09:41

probably its the moment a teenager realizes he cannot ever marry the brazilian supermodel he had been following in college , needs to 'grow up' and either find a local lady or concede to parents wishes for arranged marriage with a well vetted local choice.

its a defining moment in life when one is forced to give up airy dreams and make a pragmatic choice from what limited menu is on table.

marks the boundary between teenage and adulthood I say.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Kersi D » 18 Aug 2014 12:22

Singha wrote:probably its the moment a teenager realizes he cannot ever marry the brazilian supermodel he had been following in college , needs to 'grow up' and either find a local lady or concede to parents wishes for arranged marriage with a well vetted local choice.

its a defining moment in life when one is forced to give up airy dreams and make a pragmatic choice from what limited menu is on table.

marks the boundary between teenage and adulthood I say.


Is it the "Modi Effect" ????? I hope so

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Pratyush » 18 Aug 2014 12:33

I hope, that the IA will release the GSQR to the Indian industry. The Indian Industry will respond, with the appropriate products.

Also, the IA needs to be clear about the futuristic 155 MM. That the DRDO is working on. Else, we may have a repeat of the Arjun situation.

Wet dream alert.

I hope and pray that the AH 64 is canceled.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby deejay » 18 Aug 2014 13:19

-deleted-

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby vic » 18 Aug 2014 13:53

China was able to face off and is still facing off, both Soviet Union and USA with low tech "indigenous" equipment. It is better to have trailing edge "indigenous" equipment then to have curse of Karan (Mahabharat) being not able to use the imported equipment when most needed.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby vic » 18 Aug 2014 14:19

I have a different version of events. 5-6 years back, Govt sanctioned around Rs 400 crores to set up a plant which could (also) manufacture important components of the Howitzer. Thereafter things started moving. But as usual, OFB howitzer is Gold standard while DRDO howitzer is super gold + unobtainum standard which is better than the super best anywhere in the world.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby rohitvats » 18 Aug 2014 16:53

If the DRDO says that ATAGS is expected to enter service in 6 years time frame, then it is wise to add another 2-3 years to it. I thought the time to be taken was 3-years based on some interviews earlier.

Given the time period mentioned in the report, out goes my dream of standardized gun for Towed, Mounted, Tracked and Wheeled category.

I expect a non-DRDO gun to enter service in Mounted, Tracked and Wheeled Categories. And unless the GOI actually puts the foot down and gets IA to induct OFB 155/45 towed gun over next 6-8 years along with up-gradation of M-46 gun, you'll even see a towed gun from foreign manufacturer making way into IA with OFB gun inducted in only limited numbers.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby karan_mc » 18 Aug 2014 17:05

Kalyani Group is working on ultra-light howitzers , i think i have read some where it will be ready in 2015

Image

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rien » 18 Aug 2014 17:53

Pratyush wrote:Wet dream alert.

I hope and pray that the AH 64 is canceled.


Not just cancelled, but orders for the Light Combat Helicopter placed. That would give us the decisive edge over both the Chinese and the Pakistanis. I can't wait to see Discovery style docos on NDTV where they show our maal blowing up enemy tanks :D

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rien » 18 Aug 2014 18:07

rohitvats wrote:If the DRDO says that ATAGS is expected to enter service in 6 years time frame, then it is wise to add another 2-3 years to it. I thought the time to be taken was 3-years based on some interviews earlier.

Given the time period mentioned in the report, out goes my dream of standardized gun for Towed, Mounted, Tracked and Wheeled category.

I expect a non-DRDO gun to enter service in Mounted, Tracked and Wheeled Categories. And unless the GOI actually puts the foot down and gets IA to induct OFB 155/45 towed gun over next 6-8 years along with up-gradation of M-46 gun, you'll even see a towed gun from foreign manufacturer making way into IA with OFB gun inducted in only limited numbers.


The most recent news I found claims 2019.

http://defenceradar.com/2014/08/16/drdo ... tem-atags/
The Advance Towed Artillery Guns System (ATAGS), a light-weight long-range automated gun being developed by DRDO with private participation, will be ready for production by 2019 after undergoing six years of development and testing. The ATAGS, which was sanctioned in 2012, has about 6,000 different components.

“The 155MM/52 calibre is going to be one of the best artillery guns in the world in its category,” said Anil Datar, noted scientist and Director General (Armament and Combat Engineering Cluster).


The artillery sage is over. With the OFB as a stopgap and the DRDO gun to be the Uber gun, I think it will be the standardized gun and there should be no room for imports. 7 years does sound enough time, since they started in 2012.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Victor » 18 Aug 2014 18:59

Every time a promising weapon emerges from non-DPSU sources, a new super-duper/best-in-the-world arth-shaster appears from the DPSU secret kave komplex. The best hope for the Army is the Kalyani gun unless it is torpedoed by OFB/DRDO bombast. Hopefully the new MoD is truly made of sterner stuff. It is about time somebody coached the OFB/DRDO people to tone down the empty boasting. Given the record, I expect this new 'advanced' gun to go pfffttt. Hope they outdo themselves this time but it's unwise to expect it. Let them first deliver a Bofors copy in working order to the Army.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Surya » 18 Aug 2014 19:09

as soon as DRDO promised an uber gun , X country to have it yada yada - my heart sank

“The 155MM/52 calibre is going to be one of the best artillery guns in the world in its category,” said Anil Datar, noted scientist and Director General (Armament and Combat Engineering Cluster)
:((


Yea we heard these claims before - lay of the hyperboles and deliver something even if it is not the best - even better get out of this and focus on the areas where we need them to

We really need to have one of the pvt parties deliver these guns- In this day and age to rely on DPSUs for this is ridiculous

sigh towed, tracked and wheeled all remain a mirage :(

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_Sharma » 18 Aug 2014 20:09

^DRDO has to do it, otherwise throughout the developing phase and even after development there'll be articles about how outdated the tech of DRDO gun will be by the time it comes. Just see how great knowledgeable people on rafale thread are saying how wrong it is to buy a jet which will be outdated by 2040: that is rafale only ahead of its time jsf b can be considered.

Now that M 777 has entered and got cancelled, continuosly article will be coming at how swedes or american are moving to railgun or howitzer made of adamantium.

Probably to offset all this DRDO has to do it!

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Victor » 18 Aug 2014 22:08

^In that case they will continue to look and perform like Keystone Cops until they go out of business, which is going to happen as soon as a Kalyani or Tata gun is operational in the Army. Sorry, this boasting only makes them sound more ridiculous, if that is possible.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 18 Aug 2014 22:18

Your silly baiting apart, fact is that a Tata or Kalyani gun will require their IP as well, given its they who have the lockdown on ballistic tech & vetronics in India.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 18 Aug 2014 22:21

Surya wrote:as soon as DRDO promised an uber gun , X country to have it yada yada - my heart sank

“The 155MM/52 calibre is going to be one of the best artillery guns in the world in its category,” said Anil Datar, noted scientist and Director General (Armament and Combat Engineering Cluster)
:((


Yea we heard these claims before - lay of the hyperboles and deliver something even if it is not the best - even better get out of this and focus on the areas where we need them to

We really need to have one of the pvt parties deliver these guns- In this day and age to rely on DPSUs for this is ridiculous

sigh towed, tracked and wheeled all remain a mirage :(


Depends. LRDE, DLRL, RCI etc made the same claim & have delivered. The import replacements coming in from all three, pretty much match whatever we got from the open market.
There is no reason why ARDE per se cannot replicate this, as long as it runs a tight ship and doesn't overreach. Its choice of private partners is a plus.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 18 Aug 2014 22:23

rohitvats wrote:If the DRDO says that ATAGS is expected to enter service in 6 years time frame, then it is wise to add another 2-3 years to it. I thought the time to be taken was 3-years based on some interviews earlier.

Given the time period mentioned in the report, out goes my dream of standardized gun for Towed, Mounted, Tracked and Wheeled category.

I expect a non-DRDO gun to enter service in Mounted, Tracked and Wheeled Categories. And unless the GOI actually puts the foot down and gets IA to induct OFB 155/45 towed gun over next 6-8 years along with up-gradation of M-46 gun, you'll even see a towed gun from foreign manufacturer making way into IA with OFB gun inducted in only limited numbers.


Hope IA sees sense and orders one standard type across 2-3 segments + a local alternative for the long run. If one gun is chosen, then the losing bidder can work/build the rest of the production order. Tata & L&T competed for the Pinaka and that was the deal struck.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 18 Aug 2014 22:54

agupta wrote:Aaah, yes. I think I now recall what/who you meant. There was no way the OFB was going to let anyone else - even other PSUs enter their turf ! That said, I think you might recall that had OFB kept to their promised timelines and delivered as they said - even accounting for significant overruns - at least ~ 200 (or was it <100) desi FH77xs would've gone into service; and then the more practical parts of IA acquisition could've kept a low-rate going over the entire decade, if nothing else... to expect them to completely give up on the T-6/T-5 rationalization quest would be unrealistic :)


Agupta ji, i think the entire program was downed by the import lobby at the time - or those who expected easy imports to solve the arty woes. Some in OFB would have doubtless gone along with it. After all, no matter who wins, OFB puts together the kits. But it did teach me to be skeptical of the media, especially those who now tout that this Bofors stuff was never before thought of and only now are we reverse engg etc. (when we actually had the license and paid for it)

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Prem » 18 Aug 2014 22:59

South African DENEL is no longer Banned now. Artillery arena now heats up.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Victor » 18 Aug 2014 23:03

Karan M wrote:Your silly baiting apart, fact is that a Tata or Kalyani gun will require their IP as well, given its they who have the lockdown on ballistic tech & vetronics in India.

One doesn't kick a dead horse, one buries them. OFB is a dead weight on Indian defence and people who try to shield them in spite of the unbelievable waste aren't doing India a favor. You may not agree but the Army does and that is all that counts in my book.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 18 Aug 2014 23:32

Victor wrote:
Karan M wrote:Your silly baiting apart, fact is that a Tata or Kalyani gun will require their IP as well, given its they who have the lockdown on ballistic tech & vetronics in India.

One doesn't kick a dead horse, one buries them. OFB is a dead weight on Indian defence and people who try to shield them in spite of the unbelievable waste aren't doing India a favor. You may not agree but the Army does and that is all that counts in my book.


Before going off on a tangent, it helps to ask. I wasn't referring to OFB.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Philip » 20 Aug 2014 12:58

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/i ... 332456.ece

Feeble fire in the big guns

Rahul Bedi

SHORTFALL: The critical howitzer shortage and obsolescence of existing platforms is possibly the worst of the Army’s innumerable deficiencies. Picture shows a Light Field Gun-105/37 MME-2 and Bofors gun
The Indian Army is facing a critical shortage of effective artillery firepower, crucial in a limited war scenario

The Indian Army is making incremental, but confused, progress in upgrading its depreciated artillery profile that has languished gravely since the import of Bofors howitzers in the late 1980s. It recently completed trials for two 155mm/52 caliber howitzer systems and is readying its report on the try-outs in Rajasthan last summer and in Sikkim in February, for presentation to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) by the year end.
Howitzer shortage

Depending on the trial reports of whether the howitzers have met the Army’s Qualitative Requirements (QRs), principally of reliably and consistently achieving a strike range of 42 kilometres, the vendors will be shortlisted or rejected. Ideally, thereafter the howitzer price bids submitted early last year ahead of field trials would be opened, cost negotiations launched and the procurement confirmed. But such a smooth and painless eventuality in India’s lugubrious MoD is still a long way off.

Competing for the 155mm/52 caliber towed gun system (TGS) are France’s Nexter, with its Trajan gun, specially modified for the Indian tender, and Israel’s Elbit fielding the ATHOS 2052 howitzer. India plans on acquiring 400 towed howitzers and building an additional 1,180 guns via a technology transfer to the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).

Vying alongside, in support of the Army’s initial requirement for 100 self-propelled tracked (SPT) howitzers are South Korean Samsung-Techwin’s K-9 Thunder and an upgraded version of Russia’s MSTA-S SP gun modified to 155mm/52cal standards and mounted on a T72 main battle tank chassis.

All four competitors have technical agreements with local companies that are expected to extend beyond providing backup during trials, if any of the original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) are shortlisted for acquisition. While Nexter and Samsung are collaborating with Larsen & Toubro (L&T), Elbit has an arrangement with the Kalyani Group in Pune. Expectedly, the Russians are in a tie-up with the OFB.

The TGS howitzer trials were the fifth since 2001, plagued as they have been by a bewildering round of bureaucratic delays and frequent issuance, withdrawal and re-issuance of tenders by the MoD. The Army has further compromised the artillery programme by its muddled and, at times, over ambitious QRs that would indeed be comical if the operational ramifications of the howitzer shortages were not dire.

The latest round of howitzer trials is a long-deferred response to the Army’s Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan (FARP) formulated in 1999 that aims to import, locally develop and licence-build a mix of around 2,800-3,000 assorted guns to equip around 190-200 artillery regiments.


The ambitious Plan, possibly the world’s largest involving artillery systems, is estimated to cost $8-10 billion and is scheduled for completion by the end of the 14th Five-Year Finance Plan in 2027. Unfortunately, this is a deadline the Army and the MoD will most certainly overshoot.

The FARP envisages inducting a perplexing mix of 1,580 TGS, 814 mounted platforms and the outright purchase of 145 BAE Systems M777 155 mm/39-caliber ultra-light howitzers; that too is mired in unnecessary red tape and confusion. Also included is the outright purchase of 100 SPT howitzers and 180 self-propelled wheeled howitzers with another 120 to be built locally under a technology transfer agreement.

The critical howitzer shortage and obsolescence of existing platforms is possibly the worst of the Army’s innumerable deficiencies. These astonishingly include basic infantry weapons like carbines and assault rifles, night-fighting devices for the bulk of the Army’s 59 armour regiments, air defence equipment, light utility, attack and heavy lift helicopters, body armour and assorted ordnance, missiles and ammunition, among much else.

At present, the Army principally employs Soviet-era 105mm OFB-built Indian Field Guns and D-30 122mm field pieces, both with limited ranges of around 17 km that can be offset by long-range mortars. These are supplemented by Bofors 155mm/39 cal howitzers, now reduced to less than half their original number of 410 due to cannibalisation. Soviet M46 130mm guns upgraded to 155mm/45 cal by Soltam in the late 1990’s complete the Army’s circumscribed artillery profile.

Military planners concur that these assets are woefully inadequate to sustain the Army’s revised ‘manoeuvre by fire’ offensive capabilities and the newly formulated war-fighting Cold Start doctrine. Simply put, this envisages holding or static formations along India’s borders with Pakistan going on the offensive in a limited war scenario to achieve negotiable military gains in a nuclearised environment. Efficient and effective artillery firepower is crucial to this battlefield scenario.

Additional howitzers, especially the transportable M777s, are desperately needed to equip the proposed fourth artillery division for deployment along the 4,057-km-long unresolved Chinese border to support the two recently created mountain divisions in the northeast in addition to the 17 Mountain Strike Corps currently under raising in the same region. Meanwhile, there is a putative, albeit questionable, embarrassment of artillery riches domestically.

The OFB is currently conducting its final round of trials involving Dhanush, the Bofors FH-77B 155mm/45 cal towed howitzer prototypes it has constructed using blueprints it obtained in 1987 along with the 410 guns, but never used after the purchase became controversial. The trials became necessary after the barrel of one of its two prototypes built by the Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) in Jabalpur burst last August during try-outs in Pokhran.
Acquisition of Dhanushs

The MoD has approved the acquisition of 144 Dhanushs with the possibility of procuring another 400-odd depending on their performance.

The outcome of the Defect Identification Inquiry ordered by the MoD into this mishap is unknown, but it is widely believed in military and industry circles that it remains inconclusive. Senior artillery officers, however, believe that inducting Dhanush is at best an interim measure as it is an outdated gun, but in the short term the best option for the Army to make good shortages.

Alongside, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has successfully fabricated the Catapult MKII self-propelled artillery system by mating the 130mm gun with the Arjun tank chassis.
The Army recently conducted Catapault MKII user trials following which series production of 40 platforms is expected to imminently begin at the OFB’s Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi near Chennai to equip two regiments. These 40 platforms will replace an equal number of DRDO-developed Catapult MKIs fashioned in the early 1980s by mounting the M46 gun onto the lengthened chassis of the locally licence-built Vijayanta tank.

Simultaneously, private defence contractors like the Tatas, L&T and Bharat Forge are involved in locally upgrading M46 guns provided by the Army to 155mm/45 cal in addition to developing their own 155mm/52 howitzers in collaboration with overseas OEMs. Some are also collaborating with the DRDO’s Armament Research and Development Establishment in Pune to design a 155 mm/52-caliber Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) with a 50-km strike range by 2016.

Proposals are also afoot to privatise ordnance manufacture to meet shortages. The Army faces a shortfall of some 50,000 155 mm precision-guided munitions rounds, more than 21,200 bi-modular charge systems, and around one million electronic fuses which the OFB is incapable of fulfilling.

(Rahul Bedi writes on defence and security issues.)


From the report there is certainly much confusion .This must be laid at the door of the UPA maladministration,AKA in particular,who added another decade to the 16yr long wait by the IA for new guns.In fact Samuel Beckett the playright who wrote the classic play "Waiting for Godot" in 1948,would be delighted with this grand Indian defnce debacl, and the generals of the IA resembling Vladimir and Estragon,the two tramps endlessly waiting for "Godot".
At one point in the play,"with no carrots left, Vladimir offers Estragon the pointless choice between a turnip and a radish".That is the pathetic state with which the IA has been reduced to,choosing between the "turnip",desi version of decades old Bofors,Dhanush and the "radish",an ex-Soviet upgunned 130mm gun!

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby member_26622 » 21 Aug 2014 22:25

Why are we entertaining Denel/Singapore and other import likes in news feed when Desi version through Kalyani/Tata and Dhanush are there on the table ? Do they offer significant performance, to depend on a foreign source for the largest order of artillery in this century?

If OFB can reverse engineer (when they actually had all the drawings ?) then I bet Tata/Kalyani can do a better and faster job on Dhanush cloning. We need to also limit testing time to six months. Best to split orders and ramp up numbers fast, export potential comes next. DRDO can work on next generation.

This overall lack of direction in policy from MoD is feeding drugs to import lobby.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 22 Aug 2014 02:00

Philip, Good quote from "Waiting for Godot". Describes the UPA and AKA perfidy in disarming India and making sure there are limited options for retaliating against TSP terrorism. In effect AKA used the IA generals preference for the best to deny them what would work. So a classic example of how to make people ineffective by using their rigid beliefs.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Philip » 22 Aug 2014 02:23

Ramana,tx.This is exactly what I was told 2 yrs. ago in Delhi,that undermining India's defence capability (to benefit Pak) was going on thanks to the UPA,MMS,AKA,etc.,at the behest of their firang master whom we all know too well.The delay in finalising the Rafale deal is also attributed to them.That deal too is now beginning to resembles the arty one if given time! But Jet Li one hopes will act decisively .

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Ranjani Brow » 28 Aug 2014 20:07

Saurav Jha: Turning to tube artillery, what is the status of the Advanced Towed Array Gun System (ATAGS) programme?

Avinash Chander: ATAGS programme is going strong. We expect the barrel firing to be done by the end of this year. The programme is on schedule.

Saurav Jha: Will it be available for trials by 2017-18?

Avinash Chander: Yes the entire gun should be available for trials by 2017-18. 2017 in fact.


http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/sauravjha/2976/65371/interview-with-the-chief-of-drdo-avinash-chander-part-ii.html

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Pratyush » 29 Aug 2014 09:59

You can easily add 12 months to the end of the year test firing of the gun barrel. Still, it is a good news, that domestic efforts are on going.

I will pray that the firsts new guns using this tech enter service before the end of the decade and over the next 10 years the arty is rationalized. As was planned, for the field arty rationalization plan.

Or if a new plane is devised for the Arty, they that plan is executed.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby merlin » 29 Aug 2014 10:44

hecky wrote:
Saurav Jha: Turning to tube artillery, what is the status of the Advanced Towed Array Gun System (ATAGS) programme?

Avinash Chander: ATAGS programme is going strong. We expect the barrel firing to be done by the end of this year. The programme is on schedule.

Saurav Jha: Will it be available for trials by 2017-18?

Avinash Chander: Yes the entire gun should be available for trials by 2017-18. 2017 in fact.


http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/sauravjha/2976/65371/interview-with-the-chief-of-drdo-avinash-chander-part-ii.html


Any and all dates given out by DRDO is bogus to be taken with a bag of salt

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby SBajwa » 29 Aug 2014 21:51


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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby vaibhav.n » 02 Sep 2014 22:52

Karan M wrote:Vaibhav, all the low risk stuff was tried in the early 2000s by OFB, DRDO, PSUs together. Army sunk it saying it would be obsolete in 21st century. DRDO has deliberately gone for a futuristic design based on harsh prior experience with Arjun, towed AD project, ammo programs etc, where meeting "current needs" is not enough & additional ones are added later on, making the whole earlier design moot (you can upgrade the earlier design only so much; Arjun morphed into 60t beast from Vijayanta derivative, towed AD gun was dropped, FSAPDS only restarted after IMI failure).

If earlier design is not continued and follow on launched, CAG then jumps in & breathes fire saying the early program was a waste & public money was squandered etc etc. (SV2000, Counter mine flail, etc)

Right now, the low risk option exists in the form of the FH77 follow on by the OFB. This was finally cleared by IA after it realized all its hopes of quick purchase and induction of state of art imports were going nowhere.

Even so, what the Army makes of low risk FH77 is very clear, only some 400 are planned to be acquired. Clearly, a program built on the basis of "extending" the FH77 design alone will not work and nor is IA interested in it.



Karan, I Agree.

We can only speculate on why the Arty Dte thinks the Dhanush is obsolete. If 45 calibre is a sore point that can surely be built upon. I really don't know what the DRDO gun can possibly provide in incremental capabilities. OFB claims to have bought and crammed most of the stuff with a current C2 systems, Velocity Radar, Automated Laying/Positioning Systems. IMO, the benefits of waiting for a DRDO gun till 2020 or whenever are marginal at best.

Optimistically, 400 guns will take the OFB atleast a decade to deliver, they can easily have the 52 Caliber variant built up on the same platform.

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby SanjayC » 02 Sep 2014 23:06

vaibhav.n wrote:We can only speculate on why the Arty Dte thinks the Dhanush is obsolete. If 45 calibre is a sore point that can surely be built upon.


The best has become the enemy of the good, that's all. These dudes have never heard "A good bird in hand is better than the best bird in the bush."

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_Sharma » 03 Sep 2014 06:28

SBajwa wrote:


Why so much time-energy spent in Kadam-Taal and rituals? Shouldn't the practice in loading up and firing as many rounds as possible?

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby member_28526 » 03 Sep 2014 06:51

I'm sure there were foreign dignitaries and military experts witnessing the show, not forgetting the media. All this hopping around is comical and hurts to watch. They should have just done the exhibition in real time mode.

Singha
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Singha » 03 Sep 2014 07:16

the people passing comments on guns as obsolete do not have to fight gun-less on the china border.
their kids are safely in the west.
they themselves are safe someplace like delhi.
why should they care about being realistic?

member_26622
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby member_26622 » 03 Sep 2014 09:02

I have a good feeling about current Army leadership, especially Gen. Suhag. His fitness level says a lot about his attitude of staying fighting fit - someone who will see through this insanity of been under equipped because of import fascination.

Arms and feet follow the head - we elected imported rajababus (congress italian team) in to power then why single out armed forces for been importistas? We all were Importistas in a way.

srin
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby srin » 03 Sep 2014 10:40

Dhananjay wrote:
SBajwa wrote:


Why so much time-energy spent in Kadam-Taal and rituals? Shouldn't the practice in loading up and firing as many rounds as possible?


Relax, that is just for show. The co-ordination is impressive though - that is what they are demonstrating.

If you see videos of artillery fire during Kargil, none of this is present.

Probably the presence of civvies - take a look at the F-22 demo and see how much is wasted walking back and forth - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-qji9DWOu0.


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