Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 24 Apr 2015 09:59

The feature that is most apparent on the various AVs is the v.wide side armour ,that appears to be at least 18" wide. The lessons of the recent wars where MBTs/ICVs took a beating from tandem warhead RPGs seems to have been learnt. One wonders whether we have conducted trials of the same against our existing MBTs and ICVs using the latest RPG/ATGM rounds.

PS:This report has a US translation of the specs of the Armata.It says it has a 3 man crew.
Ck out the link for more details.
http://www.businessinsider.in/Russia-ju ... 003444.cms
Russia just unveiled its new Armata battle tank
Tomas Hirst0Apr 21, 2015,
The graphic below from the Russian state-owned news service Tass, translated by US Army's Foreign Military Studies Office, shows the tanks key characteristics:

Business Insider reported that one of the most important pieces of technology added to the Armata is the Afganit active protection complex, a system that uses Doppler radar to detect incoming projectiles such as rocket-propelled grenades and anti-tank missiles.

The Uralvagonzavod plant at which they are being built plans to roll out as many as 500 T-14s a year once they enter service.


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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby pankajs » 24 Apr 2015 16:37

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ ‏@writetake 9m9 minutes ago

No time line for induction of Arjun Mk-2 into Army can be fixed at this stage, @manoharparrikar informs Lok Sabha.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Surya » 24 Apr 2015 17:28

thanks Austin

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 25 Apr 2015 17:11

Turkish Altay Tank ,PP/Production

http://i.imgur.com/DgDClAU.jpg

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby NRao » 25 Apr 2015 18:02

IF the Armata "tank" could be sold to India, then why not the rest?

The newest MBT Armata has been developed by UVZ specialists on the basis of a heavy-duty platform of the same name. The platform is to be used for the development of a main battle tank, infantry combat vehicle, a heavy APC, a tank support combat vehicle, an armored repair-and-evacuation vehicle, a chassis for self-propelled artillery mounts, etc. The MBT will have a 125mm gun, remote-controlled and fully digitalized. The crew will operate the gun from an isolated armored capsule”, Tass.ru reports

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 26 Apr 2015 23:42

Merkava Mk 4 Tank


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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Vivek K » 27 Apr 2015 04:54

Sadly, India with a much larger skilled manpower base, will continue to import from small nations like Israel. The Arjun development for all intents and purposes is dead. With indiscriminate purchases squandering away the country's MIC, jobs and taxpayer dollars, the Arjun or the FMBT have no role in the future IA. Talk of another purchase of 310 Tincans is nothing short of treason.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 27 Apr 2015 06:43

Because the tin can comes with Natasha's

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby uddu » 27 Apr 2015 08:44

I dont think there will be any going back. Indian Army will operate two types of tanks, The heavier tanks being of Arjun MK-II, III providing better protection as an added advantage. etc and the lighter tanks will be the FMBT which itself could be from the technology developed for the Arjun MBT.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 28 Apr 2015 13:18

Arjun-2 appears to have made the grade from last trial reports.Therefore,with the make in India mantra,the GOI/MOD will have to walk the talk. From the CAG report,the Arjun line of prod. is idle. A Q is what would the max annual prod rate be if orders were to be given asap for say 200-300 tanks. The import of 300 T-90s asks another Q,why necessary when T-90 production is already taking place? T-72 upgrades are also on order for hundreds of them. Does this indicate that there is a production problem at Avadi or what?

On another happy note, a report today says that the desi Bofors has come through and IAl v.pleased.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 28 Apr 2015 16:46

Ministry of Defence http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=118644
24-April-2015 16:02 IST

Main Battle Tank Arjun

Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has designed and developed Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun, a multi-disciplinary Armoured Fighting Vehicle, which has already been inducted into Army. Heavy Vehicle Factory (HVF) at Avadi, Chennai is the production agency of MBT Arjun. Out of total indented quantity of 124 Nos., 122 MBT Arjun Mk-I have been produced and inducted into Army. Two Armoured Regiments (43 & 75 Armd Regts) of MBT Arjun Mk-I have been raised and operationalised. Efforts for reduction of the import content of MBT Arjun is a continuous process. DRDO is presently engaged in the development of MBT Arjun Mk-II with 73 improvements (including 15 major improvements) over MBT Arjun Mk-I. Out of these 73 improvements, 53 have been found successful based on User trials. No time line for induction into Army can be fixed at this stage.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar in a written reply to Shri Kodikunnil Suresh in Lok Sabha today.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 28 Apr 2015 17:01

Normal bureaucratic answer

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2015 17:48

>> Out of these 73 improvements, 53 have been found successful based on User trials

which means IOC will be delayed until these 20 are fixed and subject to summer, monsoon and winter trials

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Kersi D » 28 Apr 2015 21:08

Singha wrote:>> Out of these 73 improvements, 53 have been found successful based on User trials

which means IOC will be delayed until these 20 are fixed and subject to summer, monsoon and winter trials


All trials "delayed" till Armata is ready !

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 29 Apr 2015 13:11

Armata, is to bought without any trials as an emergency measure. While, Arjun, has to jump through the hoops for acceptance. That will not be given.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2015 13:22

Kersi D - very elegant and concise answer that fits best.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby VibhavS » 30 Apr 2015 09:28

Character Assassination has already begun. Army building the case for the new "Armata" - call it - T1000.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/armys-fleet-of-arjun-tanks-face-technical-issues-major-proportion-of-124-tanks-in-service-not-operational/articleshow/47103764.cms

It is indeed sad, that the Arjun is being panned as unreliable, when the Army will not even order enough to make it viable.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby adityadange » 30 Apr 2015 13:25

This news is boiling my blood. tried to comment on the article but getting problems while posting. can anybody please comment on ET and let the aam aadmi know what exactly is cooking?
I have shared this link on my fb with my comments. I hope i will be able to educate at least one more indian this way.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 30 Apr 2015 14:42

unless the DGMF is re-orged and a entirely new neutral outfit brought together for the role, I do not think any progress can happen.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby RKumar » 30 Apr 2015 15:03

RM should use this as an opportunity to order 500 Arjun Mk1 till army do their trials on Mk2. Once Mk2 is successful another 500 will be ordered :lol: :lol:

As if we order more Arjun we will get the ToT and better support from the OEM.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 30 Apr 2015 15:14

The IA needs to be told in no uncertain terms, that no more imported tanks. Or Indian made foreign tanks (IMFT).

If they want it. They should be given a choice between having sticks and stone or Arjun.

I am sure that they will choose Sticks & Stones.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby pankajs » 30 Apr 2015 16:16

We need to track folks who are out to smear domestic projects. Please keep adding to the list.

Manu Pubby retweeted
Toral Varia ‏@toralvaria 3h3 hours ago

@YusufDFI @manupubby this is what happens when equipment is bought despite unflattering field trial reports. Now stuck.
I though that per the last independent report Arjun has absolutely smashed T-90.

1. Manu Pubby
2. Toral Varia

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby pankajs » 30 Apr 2015 16:18

Manu Pubby retweeting could be a rough guide

Manu Pubby retweeted
Defence Reporter ‏@Defence_Report 5h5 hours ago

Arjun tanks face technical issues;major proportion of 124 tanks in service not operational

1. Manu Pubby
2. Toral Varia
3. @Defence_Report

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 30 Apr 2015 16:33

This report may be an effort to ensure Arjun is not going to get any orders under MII of GOI. It is quite possible that it may have support of IA also. With all this Arjun may end up not getting any further orders. Next on the Hit List will be LCA-Tejas.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 01 May 2015 10:23

I think that the current DM is doing a great job,after a decade of dereliction of duty by the Cong/UPA combine. If he has set up a task force to raise the operational/availability level of SU-30s and is succeeding,one hopes that with his focus on the matter,the IA's issues with Arjun-1 will also be resolved. The point is correct in that a lot of eqpt.on A-1 is imported,engine for instance. This is the first batch of A-1s too and with any new weapon system,operating in the field brings out new problems that trials were unable to forsee/predict. The report does not say that A-2 has been dumped,so let's give the DM a chance to ascertain the correct facts and take a decision keeping in mind India's interests first.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 01 May 2015 15:55

Manu Pubby is the same d-bag who ran the initial bunch of articles running down the Arjun. Subsequent trials where it outran/outgunned the T-90s put egg on his face. The Indian media is occupied by the worst types in the country.

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 01 May 2015 16:26

Where is the DRDO's propaganda machine? There must be some advocates of the Arjun in the IA,retd. officers,etc.from the armoured corps who can dispassionately write about the issue,highlighting the IA's armoured warfare doctrine,choice of tanks,etc.,etc.,without revealing classified stuff.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby satya » 01 May 2015 18:42

If Modi Sahib can shoot down the proposal for buying more Su30s from Russia then one can be sure there will be no more russian tank imports atleast in his tenure.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 01 May 2015 19:10

One is all for "desi first" as long as desi products make the grade and desi DPSUs deliver on time to the desired quality. Assessing that should be a focussed goal of the MOD,cutting through spats between end user and manufacturer.
Was this posted earlier?

http://www.janes.com/article/50896/new- ... eaks-cover
New Russian heavy armour breaks cover

The Russian Ground Forces' new suite of armoured vehicles have been officially revealed for the first time by the Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD), ahead of their formal debut at the 9 May Moscow Victory Day Parade.

The new vehicles are principally clean-slate designs and represent the biggest change in Russia's armoured fighting vehicle families since the 1960s and 1970s.

The official MoD website published pictures of the vehicles - albeit with their weapon systems covered - following the unofficial leaking of images and footage of them rehearsing for the parade in recent days.

Armata

The flagship of the new armoured vehicles is the Armata main battle tank (MBT), also known as the T-14 and built by UralVagonZavod. The images show an MBT much more in keeping with recent western philosophies on tank design, appearing larger and taller than the T-72/90 it will replace.

The key feature of the Armata is its unmanned turret, with all three crew members (commander, gunner, driver) seated in a crew capsule at the front of the vehicle's hull. Although the turret is covered in the MoD image, Armata is understood to be armed with a 2A82A 125 mm smoothbore main gun fed by a bustle-mounted automatic loader equipped with 32 rounds.

Armata is also reported to feature a 30 mm coaxial secondary armament and a 12.7 mm machine gun. Despite being covered, the turret's bustle-mounted automatic loader and commander's independent sighting system are clearly visible under the shrouding material.

The Russian Ground Forces' new heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) based on the Armata main battle tank (MBT) chassis seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

Armata, judging by the images released, features a notably different hull design to the T-72/90. One striking difference is the road wheels, which are of a different design to the T-72/90's, while the Armata features seven road wheels to the six of the previous MBT design. The MBT's sides are fitted with a new advanced armour package along three-quarters of the vehicle's length, with the rear three-quarters protected instead by bar armour.

The Armata chassis is also intended to provide the base for a whole family of heavy armoured vehicles. The MoD displayed one of these: a new heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV)/armoured personnel carrier (APC) variant also known as the T-15.

Although the T-15 turret is covered, this IFV variant is understood to be armed with a KBP Instrument Design Bureau Epoch Almaty remote control turret (RCT) armed with a 30 mm 2A42 cannon, 7.62 mm coaxial MG, and a bank of two Kornet-EM anti-tank guided weapons (ATGWs) on either side. In the MoD image, the heavy IFV is also fitted with an advanced armour package on the side of the vehicle, although it has only been partially applied to the latter part of the vehicle's flanks.

Other Armata chassis-based vehicles being planned are understood to include the MT-A armoured bridgelayer, MYM-A engineering vehicle, BMO-2 thermobaric multiple rocket launcher variant, and USM-1 minelayer.

In total 10 examples of the Armata MBT are expected to take part in the 9 May parade.

Coalition-SV

Also shown for the first time is the 2S35 Coalition-SV (Koalitsiya-CB) self-propelled artillery (SPA) system, which will replace the 2S19 MSTA-S SPA in Russian Ground Forces service.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Koalitsya-SV (Coalition) self-propelled artillery system seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

This is understood to feature a new 152 mm ordnance utilising a modular charge system. Although the turret of the 2S35 is covered, the exposed barrel's muzzle break and recoil dampeners are notably different from that seen on the earlier 2S19. Russia had previously worked on another SPA design under the 2S35 Coalition-SV name that featured an unusual double-barrelled configuration, although work on this was understood to have been abandoned in 2010.

Although stated to be based on the Armata hull, Coalition-SV's hull is clearly different. While the frontal arc of the hull and crew positions appear similar to that of the Armata, the drivetrain appears to be that of a T-72/90, with the vehicle utilising six T-72/90 roadwheels. Coalition-SV is said to weigh 55 tonnes.

In total, eight examples of the Coalition-SV SPA are expected to take part in the parade.

Kurganets-25

The Russian Ground Forces' new Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. The vehicle picture appears to be in an IFV configuration armed with a 30 mm cannon. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

Built by Kurganmashzavod, Kurganets-25 is the replacement for the Russian army's BMP family of vehicles. Understood to weigh in at 25 tonnes, Kurganets marks a sharp increase in the weight of Russia's tracked IFVs, with even the latest BMP-3 variant weighing in at under 20 tonnes, and earlier BMP-1/2 vehicles being under 15 tonnes.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. The vehicle pictured appears to be in a command configuration, or in a 57 mm turreted version - without its main gun attached. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

The MoD pictures show that two different configurations of Kurganets will be present at the parade. Both feature extensive additional armour packages to the sides of the hull, but have different turret configurations.

Although the turrets are shrouded, one of the variants appears to be armed with a 30 mm turret - understood to be the same RCT turret that arms the Armata-based heavy IFV. The other turret appears to lack an obvious main gun. This could either represent an APC or command variant equipped with an RCT armed with a machine gun or automatic grenade launcher (AGL), or could be because the main gun has been removed for the parade rehearsals.

The latter would fit with IHS Jane's understanding that there will be two principal Kurganets IFV configurations: one with a 30 mm cannon and one with a 57 mm cannon. Although covered, the apparent profile of the second Kurganets turret appears similar to that of the UralVagonZavod AU-220M turret displayed recently at IDEX in Abu Dhabi - minus its 57 mm cannon.

Boomerang

Also shown for the first time is the Bumerang (Boomerang) 8x8 infantry fighting vehicle, developed as the successor to the BTR-series of wheeled IFVs/APCs.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Bumerang (Boomerang) 8x8 infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

The vehicle shown in the MoD images marks a start contrast to the BTR series and has strong similarities with western 8x8 designs.

The 8x8 shown features a V-shaped hull, with the driver on the left-side of the vehicle and the engine on the right side of the front of the vehicle, with a turret and passenger compartment at the rear. That Boomerang will have an amphibious capability is revealed by a shrouded propeller visible at the rear of the hull.

Similar to Kurganets, the turret of Boomerang is covered, with no obvious armament in the MoD image. It is also understood to be in line to be armed with the AU-220M turret, and thus it is possible that either the main gun has been removed for the rehearsals, or that the Boomerang 8x8 shown is in an APC or command configuration.

Other vehicles

A new version of the Russian Ground Forces' GAZ Tigr 4x4 vehicle armed with Kornet anti-tank guided missiles seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)
Also set to make its debut at the parade is a new anti-tank variant of the GAZ Tigr 4x4 multipurpose armoured vehicle equipped with the 9K129 Kornet ATGW. Although covered, the vehicle is clearly armed with a RCT equipped with eight Kornet missiles, in banks of four on either side of the RCT sighting system.

Other new vehicles for the Russian ground forces at the show include the Typhoon (Kamaz-63968) 6x6 APC and the Typhoon-U (Ural-63095) mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) 6x6 vehicle.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Typhoon 6x6 armoured personnel carrier seen during the Victory Day


Kersi D
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Kersi D » 01 May 2015 20:56

pankajs wrote:We need to track folks who are out to smear domestic projects. Please keep adding to the list.

Manu Pubby retweeted
Toral Varia ‏@toralvaria 3h3 hours ago

@YusufDFI @manupubby this is what happens when equipment is bought despite unflattering field trial reports. Now stuck.
I though that per the last independent report Arjun has absolutely smashed T-90.

1. Manu Pubby
2. Toral Varia


What about Mr Rajat Pandit of TOI. Over 90% of his articles are a adverse comment on MiGs, Tejas, Arjun, DRDO etc

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Kersi D » 01 May 2015 20:58

satya wrote:If Modi Sahib can shoot down the proposal for buying more Su30s from Russia then one can be sure there will be no more russian tank imports atleast in his tenure.


:D :D :D

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Kersi D » 01 May 2015 21:04

Philip wrote:One is all for "desi first" as long as desi products make the grade and desi DPSUs deliver on time to the desired quality. Assessing that should be a focussed goal of the MOD,cutting through spats between end user and manufacturer.
Was this posted earlier?

http://www.janes.com/article/50896/new- ... eaks-cover
New Russian heavy armour breaks cover

The Russian Ground Forces' new suite of armoured vehicles have been officially revealed for the first time by the Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD), ahead of their formal debut at the 9 May Moscow Victory Day Parade.

The new vehicles are principally clean-slate designs and represent the biggest change in Russia's armoured fighting vehicle families since the 1960s and 1970s.

The official MoD website published pictures of the vehicles - albeit with their weapon systems covered - following the unofficial leaking of images and footage of them rehearsing for the parade in recent days.

Armata

The flagship of the new armoured vehicles is the Armata main battle tank (MBT), also known as the T-14 and built by UralVagonZavod. The images show an MBT much more in keeping with recent western philosophies on tank design, appearing larger and taller than the T-72/90 it will replace.

The key feature of the Armata is its unmanned turret, with all three crew members (commander, gunner, driver) seated in a crew capsule at the front of the vehicle's hull. Although the turret is covered in the MoD image, Armata is understood to be armed with a 2A82A 125 mm smoothbore main gun fed by a bustle-mounted automatic loader equipped with 32 rounds.

Armata is also reported to feature a 30 mm coaxial secondary armament and a 12.7 mm machine gun. Despite being covered, the turret's bustle-mounted automatic loader and commander's independent sighting system are clearly visible under the shrouding material.

The Russian Ground Forces' new heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) based on the Armata main battle tank (MBT) chassis seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

Armata, judging by the images released, features a notably different hull design to the T-72/90. One striking difference is the road wheels, which are of a different design to the T-72/90's, while the Armata features seven road wheels to the six of the previous MBT design. The MBT's sides are fitted with a new advanced armour package along three-quarters of the vehicle's length, with the rear three-quarters protected instead by bar armour.

The Armata chassis is also intended to provide the base for a whole family of heavy armoured vehicles. The MoD displayed one of these: a new heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV)/armoured personnel carrier (APC) variant also known as the T-15.

Although the T-15 turret is covered, this IFV variant is understood to be armed with a KBP Instrument Design Bureau Epoch Almaty remote control turret (RCT) armed with a 30 mm 2A42 cannon, 7.62 mm coaxial MG, and a bank of two Kornet-EM anti-tank guided weapons (ATGWs) on either side. In the MoD image, the heavy IFV is also fitted with an advanced armour package on the side of the vehicle, although it has only been partially applied to the latter part of the vehicle's flanks.

Other Armata chassis-based vehicles being planned are understood to include the MT-A armoured bridgelayer, MYM-A engineering vehicle, BMO-2 thermobaric multiple rocket launcher variant, and USM-1 minelayer.

In total 10 examples of the Armata MBT are expected to take part in the 9 May parade.

Coalition-SV

Also shown for the first time is the 2S35 Coalition-SV (Koalitsiya-CB) self-propelled artillery (SPA) system, which will replace the 2S19 MSTA-S SPA in Russian Ground Forces service.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Koalitsya-SV (Coalition) self-propelled artillery system seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

This is understood to feature a new 152 mm ordnance utilising a modular charge system. Although the turret of the 2S35 is covered, the exposed barrel's muzzle break and recoil dampeners are notably different from that seen on the earlier 2S19. Russia had previously worked on another SPA design under the 2S35 Coalition-SV name that featured an unusual double-barrelled configuration, although work on this was understood to have been abandoned in 2010.

Although stated to be based on the Armata hull, Coalition-SV's hull is clearly different. While the frontal arc of the hull and crew positions appear similar to that of the Armata, the drivetrain appears to be that of a T-72/90, with the vehicle utilising six T-72/90 roadwheels. Coalition-SV is said to weigh 55 tonnes.

In total, eight examples of the Coalition-SV SPA are expected to take part in the parade.

Kurganets-25

The Russian Ground Forces' new Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. The vehicle picture appears to be in an IFV configuration armed with a 30 mm cannon. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

Built by Kurganmashzavod, Kurganets-25 is the replacement for the Russian army's BMP family of vehicles. Understood to weigh in at 25 tonnes, Kurganets marks a sharp increase in the weight of Russia's tracked IFVs, with even the latest BMP-3 variant weighing in at under 20 tonnes, and earlier BMP-1/2 vehicles being under 15 tonnes.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. The vehicle pictured appears to be in a command configuration, or in a 57 mm turreted version - without its main gun attached. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

The MoD pictures show that two different configurations of Kurganets will be present at the parade. Both feature extensive additional armour packages to the sides of the hull, but have different turret configurations.

Although the turrets are shrouded, one of the variants appears to be armed with a 30 mm turret - understood to be the same RCT turret that arms the Armata-based heavy IFV. The other turret appears to lack an obvious main gun. This could either represent an APC or command variant equipped with an RCT armed with a machine gun or automatic grenade launcher (AGL), or could be because the main gun has been removed for the parade rehearsals.

The latter would fit with IHS Jane's understanding that there will be two principal Kurganets IFV configurations: one with a 30 mm cannon and one with a 57 mm cannon. Although covered, the apparent profile of the second Kurganets turret appears similar to that of the UralVagonZavod AU-220M turret displayed recently at IDEX in Abu Dhabi - minus its 57 mm cannon.

Boomerang

Also shown for the first time is the Bumerang (Boomerang) 8x8 infantry fighting vehicle, developed as the successor to the BTR-series of wheeled IFVs/APCs.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Bumerang (Boomerang) 8x8 infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)

The vehicle shown in the MoD images marks a start contrast to the BTR series and has strong similarities with western 8x8 designs.

The 8x8 shown features a V-shaped hull, with the driver on the left-side of the vehicle and the engine on the right side of the front of the vehicle, with a turret and passenger compartment at the rear. That Boomerang will have an amphibious capability is revealed by a shrouded propeller visible at the rear of the hull.

Similar to Kurganets, the turret of Boomerang is covered, with no obvious armament in the MoD image. It is also understood to be in line to be armed with the AU-220M turret, and thus it is possible that either the main gun has been removed for the rehearsals, or that the Boomerang 8x8 shown is in an APC or command configuration.

Other vehicles

A new version of the Russian Ground Forces' GAZ Tigr 4x4 vehicle armed with Kornet anti-tank guided missiles seen during rehearsals for the 9 May Victory Day Parade in Moscow. (Russian Ministry of Defence)
Also set to make its debut at the parade is a new anti-tank variant of the GAZ Tigr 4x4 multipurpose armoured vehicle equipped with the 9K129 Kornet ATGW. Although covered, the vehicle is clearly armed with a RCT equipped with eight Kornet missiles, in banks of four on either side of the RCT sighting system.

Other new vehicles for the Russian ground forces at the show include the Typhoon (Kamaz-63968) 6x6 APC and the Typhoon-U (Ural-63095) mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) 6x6 vehicle.

The Russian Ground Forces' new Typhoon 6x6 armoured personnel carrier seen during the Victory Day



I am very surprised that Russia has NOT YET convinced MOD / IA to opt for 152 mm artillery in lieu of the 155 mm guns.

Does one remember that several years ago one Ms Renuka Choudhary rasied a query in LS/RS as to why the Russsian guns are not being considered for IA's arty requirements ?

Kersi D
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Kersi D » 01 May 2015 21:08

And overnight all the road and railway bridges in India have become strong enough to take a 50++ T tanks all over India. Of course there was an eror is estimating that the road and railway bridges in India can take a tank less than 50 T.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

All the Indian railway wagons have expanded to carry a larger-than-before tank. Expansion must be due to global warming.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

arshyam
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby arshyam » 01 May 2015 21:17

Kersi D wrote:
pankajs wrote:We need to track folks who are out to smear domestic projects. Please keep adding to the list.
1. Manu Pubby
2. Toral Varia

What about Mr Rajat Pandit of TOI. Over 90% of his articles are a adverse comment on MiGs, Tejas, Arjun, DRDO etc

Ajai Shukla, for all his political leanings and adverse comments on the IAF, came out strongly in support of the Arjun.

Here are some of his posts:
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/search?q=arjun

A small snippet from this post: Nailing some more falsehoods about the Arjun tank... and some about the T-90! (this was in the Mk-1 days)

The Arjun tank has been operated by 43 Armoured Regiment since over a decade; 43 is delighted with the tank. I have a very close friend who commanded that regiment and he always argued that a regiment of Arjun tanks was worth two regiments of T-72s. And this was even before the Arjun turned the corner!

After the firing trials in June 2006, 43 Armoured Regiment pronounced itself delighted with the Arjun’s firing performance. As I said above, 43 Armoured Regiment endorsed in its trial report, “The accuracy and consistency of the Arjun has been proved beyond doubt.” The brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, himself from 43 Armoured Regiment, endorsed that report whole-heartedly.

But the DGMF was quick to strike back. Barely three months after that report, the commanding officer of 43 Armoured Regiment, Colonel D Thakur, was confronted by then DGMF, Lt Gen DS Shekhawat. Several eyewitnesses have described to me how Colonel Thakur was upbraided by Lt Gen Shekhawat for “not conducting the trials properly”. Fortunately for Colonel Thakur, his brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, intervened and argued strongly that the trials had been conducted in accordance with procedure.

They are very positive overall, and IMHO, as a former tank man, his words have some weight.

Anyway, based on whatever I have read about Modi's support to MSMEs in Gujarat, and the need for industrial clusters that percolate employment, and his continued support for ITIs, I think he intrinsically gets the value of placing large orders for domestic kit as a way to drive MII and employment. I am sure we will hear something positive on the Arjun in the next year. Understandably, the PM's and RM's focus has been on the far more dire situation w.r.t. the IAF, so we need to give them some time.

member_23891
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby member_23891 » 01 May 2015 21:29

Philip wrote:Where is the DRDO's propaganda machine? There must be some advocates of the Arjun in the IA,retd. officers,etc.from the armoured corps who can dispassionately write about the issue,highlighting the IA's armoured warfare doctrine,choice of tanks,etc.,etc.,without revealing classified stuff.


Yeah! It's monkey model sellers priviledge only.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 01 May 2015 21:36

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2008/07/ ... about.html
The Arjun tank has been operated by 43 Armoured Regiment since over a decade; 43 is delighted with the tank. I have a very close friend who commanded that regiment and he always argued that a regiment of Arjun tanks was worth two regiments of T-72s. And this was even before the Arjun turned the corner!

After the firing trials in June 2006, 43 Armoured Regiment pronounced itself delighted with the Arjun’s firing performance. As I said above, 43 Armoured Regiment endorsed in its trial report, “The accuracy and consistency of the Arjun has been proved beyond doubt.” The brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, himself from 43 Armoured Regiment, endorsed that report whole-heartedly.

But the DGMF was quick to strike back. Barely three months after that report, the commanding officer of 43 Armoured Regiment, Colonel D Thakur, was confronted by then DGMF, Lt Gen DS Shekhawat. Several eyewitnesses have described to me how Colonel Thakur was upbraided by Lt Gen Shekhawat for “not conducting the trials properly”. Fortunately for Colonel Thakur, his brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, intervened and argued strongly that the trials had been conducted in accordance with procedure.

Talk to the crewmen, the drivers, gunners, operators… and you’ll get an even clearer endorsement. They all love the modular construction of the Arjun, which makes maintenance so easy. Changing a T-72 engine takes a full day; changing an Arjun engine takes a couple of hours.

Minister of State for Defence Production, Rao Inderjeet Singh recounts, “I’ve spoken, off the record, to officers who have gone through the trials. Even the crews (from 43 Armoured Regiment)… who have been testing the tank… I forced them to choose between the Russian tanks and the Arjun. I said, you’ve driven this tank and you’ve driven that tank (the T-90). Now mark them out of ten, which tank is better? And I’ve found that the Arjun tank was given more numbers than the T-90 tank.”



The gent in bold Shekhawat, really needs to be looked into IMHO. He ran a very nasty campaign against the Arjun using every unethical trick, even using journos like Pubby in public while doing everything he could to sabotage the program from within.

Arms dealers and wheeler dealers are legion and the T-90 deal stinks to high heavens.

member_23891
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby member_23891 » 01 May 2015 23:17

Karan M wrote:http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2008/07/nailing-some-more-falsehoods-about.html
The gent in bold Shekhawat, really needs to be looked into IMHO. He ran a very nasty campaign against the Arjun using every unethical trick, even using journos like Pubby in public while doing everything he could to sabotage the program from within.

Arms dealers and wheeler dealers are legion and the T-90 deal stinks to high heavens.


We do not know who's mind is behind this gentleman. Time to catch the masters. Of course examples must be set by MOD.

IMO VKS can play a key role in busting these lobby gangs behind the scene.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 02 May 2015 11:34

Tx Arshyam for that insightful post. If the GOI and new DM are serious about giving the first bite at the cherry to Indian products,then as far as the MBT issue is concerned,they should choose an impartial expert team to lay bare the facts,performance,costs,etc. of the two tanks in Q,and provide the extra effort needed for a large order of Arjun Mk-2 to be placed .Especially so as the Mk-1 is already in service,whatever its teething flaws may be. In any case,until another decade is past,the T-90s are going to be the backbone of the armoured corps because of the large numbers in service and those already ordered for local manufacture. However,what should be attempted in the Mk-2 is raising the indigenous content as much as poss.,we are still dependent upon a firang engine and other key components.

During the Cold War,we were unable to get the best from the West and had to make do only with Russian arms,though less sophisticated than Western wares served our purposes v.well.The same doctrine must be adopted as far as poss. today. when desi systems have been fully or almost fully developed and in production.The IA has to bite the bullet and support indigenisation as much as possible. The IN is doing a magnificent job building Indian designed warships at home in the DPSUs and pvt. yards. The other two services must pull their weight. Otherwise,let the IN teams manage the programmes!

Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 02 May 2015 11:38

Philip,

It must be very difficult for you not to support the T 14 openly. So you have taken to saying that impartial expert team, laying to rest the performance of the two tanks.

When the cold hard fact is that the Arjun MK1 out shoots the t 90, as things stand. But it is still not good enough for the IA. That they are seeking a Mk2. As a measure to delay the induction.

Oh BTW, do you remember the FMBT circus, by the IA, in 2012-13, and its subsequent abandonment.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby pankajs » 02 May 2015 12:09

Provide a level playing field to a foreign equipment vs Indian equipment is sheer madness! An inferior *local* tank is better than an imported one provided the shortfall is not much on critical parameters.

Also a 60% imported tank is better than a 100% imported tank.


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