Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

NRao
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby NRao » 30 May 2016 07:27

Sivab,

I think he meant exporting all the items he mentioned (and more). Very much doubt it includes the Arjun, sadly.

But, one never knows. This man could pretty accomplish that too.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby DavidD » 30 May 2016 07:37

Shaun wrote:"Thanks to stealth technology, the machine is practically invisible in infrared and other spectrums. It is equipped with an active electronically scanned array (AESA, or active phased array radar, APAR) similar to the one designed for Russia's T-50 PAK FA 5th generation aircraft."
Now , How the hell armata's AESA radar works for ground targets !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just check the video, it was farting like anything to show its stealthy sorry arse.

The ruskis are moving to the philosophy of heavier tanks , which already mastered by their western counterparts and our own Arjun. Being bigger , it have got more fire power , that's the difference , the others are as usual show bazi..!! The latest generation of Merkavas with trophy embedded is arguably the best tank in the world.


MBTs usually go bigger primarily for more armor, all the ones produced these days use similar capability guns.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 30 May 2016 11:21

Crew reduction and auto turret are novel.Greater automation is leading to robotic AVs. Smaller crews mean lesser weight,greater armour,speed,etc. Imagine in the future,swarms of armed drones and "Star Wars" type AVs moving at high speed on the battlefield. The shape of things to some.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby kit » 30 May 2016 12:35

i guess the country that can field an electromagnetic gun in an tank will revolutionize the battle field .. it will need just one gun and shoot down anything flying or on the ground and hold an almost unlimited amount of firepower that doesn't explode !!! .. and robotic too ... Star Wars here we come 8) 8)... kind of mind boggling .. with good sensors it can act as an anti infantry anti armor anti missile ..everything rolled into one !

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 30 May 2016 16:40

I think the electric power needed for such a gun will be huge and may not be possible to make small one like a tank with present tech levels. Even for ships it is taking time for the US. But it will be great if it can be done. A Small bore gun with a very fast projectile to kill other tanks at an enormous distance.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 05 Jun 2016 10:56

Video KADEX-2016 arms exhibition taking place in Kazakhstan


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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby JTull » 09 Jun 2016 12:05

Troops can see through armored vehicles with Israeli firm's new helmet

Elbit Systems unveiled a helmet-mounted system on Wednesday designed to allow armored personnel carrier and tank crews to see straight through their armor.

The helmets give soldiers a 360-degree, real-time view of their surroundings while in the vehicle.

Called IronVision, the system has attracted the interest of the IDF, which may choose to acquire it. If it does, the product would represent a significant leap in the capability of personnel in closed hatched armored fighting vehicles to identify threats, as well as friendly forces.

In urban, combat arenas, armored vehicle crews must stay inside to avoid being exposed to antitank, small arms and mortar attacks, of the type Hamas showered on IDF armored units in the Gaza Strip in the 2014 war (Operation Protective Edge).

Armored vehicle personnel have, until now, suffered from an inability to see much around them, company sources said. Alternatively, they risk their lives by standing with their heads exposed outside the vehicle.

The IronVision helmet pulls together video feeds from sensors that can be installed on existing armored platforms, reminiscent of the camera sensors that exist on air force craft, and allows commanders, gunners or drivers to look in any direction from inside their armored vehicle.

The helmet also links up to a military’s command and control system network, and can be used to feed the crew information on the location of hostile forces – marked in red – and friendly units – marked in blue. This appears within the image that displays their vehicle’s environment, and the military can transmit “everything it knows on the enemy” directly to the helmet’s display, a company source said.

“This is a vital advantage when it comes to carrying out missions that include joint forces and sustained high-intensity operations,” Elbit said.

A tank commander or driver would receive full color imagery of his battle environment, and could also receive live video feeds directly to the helmet from drones overhead, or from other platforms in his vicinity.

APC crews could use the helmet, which plugs into the vehicle’s computer system, to aim weapons toward threats.

“Look, lock and launch first – that is what this is designed to do,” the source said. The helmet represents an import of air force technology to ground forces products, he added.

The helmet “collects information from different digital sources within and around the vehicle and tracks the positions of various features of interest, ranging from a single person, standing or crawling, several meters near the vehicle, to a moving vehicle located 150 to 300 meters away,” according to Elbit.

This shortens the sensor- to-shooter cycle to a significant degree.

Eran Golan, Business Unit manager for Merkava Tanks and armored fighting vehicles at Elbit, said a camera could be installed on a mast, or spread out across the armored vehicle. “The vehicle becomes transparent. The system knows where targets are. With the press of a button, weapon systems can be directed toward the targets.”

The helmet will be displayed for the first time at the Eurosatory defense exhibition in Paris from June 13 to 17.

Elbit also unveiled a mobile electro-optical lookout system called SupervisIR, which uses day and night sensors to generate a picture in high resolution of a wide-area (90-degree horizontal and 12.5-degree vertical), which is equivalent to approximately 150 thermal imagers placed side by side.

SupervisIR creates a “panoramic view” of a very large area, and automatically monitors it, alerting operators to “sectors of interest” when it detects suspicious movements, a company source said.

The IDF has also shown interest in purchasing this system.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 23 Jun 2016 22:20

MOD Report - one snippet on Arjun Mk2. Looks like weight issue apart, the other progress has been ok but LAHAT did not meet minimum range requirements of IA.


DRDO took up the design & development of Arjun MBT Mk-II during the year of 2010as
per DGMF requirement with various improvements, with due involvement of all the
stakeholders including Users, and successfully fielded the first prototype for the User
trials within 2 year of time.

User trials have been planned in five phases. The first three phases comprises
extensive field evaluation of all the improvements regressively at Pokharan Field Firing
Ranges (PFFR) and Mahajan Field Firing Ranges (MFFR). Fourth phase of trial was
planned at Avadi. Fifth phase of trial consists of DGQA evaluation and Maintenance
Evaluation Trials (MET).

As of now, all the first three phases [Phase 1 to 3] of field intensive User trials have been
successfully completed. Part of Phase IV User trials at Avadi related to Step Climbing,
Trench crossing and improvement specific medium fording exercise were also
successfully accomplished. DGQA evaluation for the successful improvements have
already been commenced from Feb 2014 and actions have also been initiated for the
MET evaluation.

At present, Arjun MBT Mk-II Prototype-I has successfully covered around 5,660 km of
automotive trials and also commendable accomplishment of firing of various type of tank
ammunitions, including firing of 22 missiles.


DRDO conceived & incorporated LAser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) Guided Missile, in
association with M/s Israeli Aerospace Industries, in order to facilitate the tank to support
the futuristic network based warfare scenario. As such, the Laser Target Designator
integrated to the Gunner’s Main Sight for the firing of missiles has been successfully
incorporated and the LAHAT missiles were also successfully fired from Arjun MBT Mk-IImain
gun.

User has been insisting for performance of missiles at lower ranges of 1200-1500 m for
accepting LAHAT missile. However, OEM for missiles M/s IAI had intimated that
accuracy can be guaranteed for ranges of 1500 m and above only. The required
performances at lower ranges are technically difficult to achieve due to the basic design
of the missile.

As on date, 53 improvements, out of total finalized 73 tank fitable improvements, have
already been declared successful by the User based on the trials feedback.


DRDO is planning to field the Arjun MBT Mk II for final phase of User trials after incorporating
various suggestions made by the Users on balance tank fitable improvements. All the
improvements will be demonstrated except the performance of the LAHAT missile.

DRDO is working on development of indigenous missile with a timeframe of four years.
User has been requested to consider acceptance of LAHAT missile with modified
Acceptance Test Procedure considering the assured performance of the missiles for
1500 m and above, till such time the indigenous missile is developed.

The missile firing capability is retrofit-able and, hence, can be fitted on to the Arjun MBT
Mk II during production itself. Hence, DRDO is requesting User to place the indent for
minimum two regiments as per DAC approval, which has already been accorded for
Acceptance of Necessity [AoN] for 118 Nos. ofArjun MBT Mk-II. As indicated above, the
missile can be retro-fitted at an appropriate time during productionisation.

With respect to Non-tank fitable improvements, they are being separately developed and
evaluated. Many of the major non-tank fitable improvements, such as increased
penetration, are in advanced stages of completion and evaluation. Resin Based
Combustible Cartridge Case (CCC)and improved primer were already recommended for
induction.

DRDO and User are interacting towards taking the Arjun Mk-II for production after
successful completion of trials with various options for missiles. However, the
procuctionisation can commence at HVF/OFB, only after receipt of the firm indent from
the date of indent for completion of first batch of Arjun MBT –II by HVF/OFB.

As stated above, the DAC has already approved the AoN for 118 Nos.of Arjun MBT Mk-
II, which is valid upto 28 Aug 2015.Further, the placement of formal indent on HVF/OFB
for the productionisation is the responsibility of the User.

In view of the above, DRDO is of the view that the Army may please consider early release of the Indent, so that the
production activities can commence at HVF/OFB. Technical observation, if any, on the
improvements can be addressed and resolved by DRDO in the mean time before roll out
of first production vehicle.'

Karan M
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 23 Jun 2016 22:25

As per the Ministry, Defence Acquisition Council approval was accorded for 118 Nos.
of Arjun MBT Mk-lI. The validity expired on 28th Aug 2015 and needs extension. With
increase in weight, apprehensions have arisen as to its seamless application in semideveloped
and developed sectors of the Western Front. In a review meeting on 20 April,
2015, the Hon'ble RM directed for a QR review committee "Regarding improvements in the
Mk-II & the increase in weight, it was decided that DRDO and User should mutually form a
QR and based on that DRDO should provide configuration giving weight budget. Thereafter
action plan would be made". The various aspects like Trafficability, Transportability, Agility,
Mobility and other operational/ functional problems caused by 6 tonne of additional weight
have been deliberated by the QR committee and the report is under finalisation at Directorate
General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF) office.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Aditya G » 25 Jun 2016 17:48

Plateau warriors?

Image

Not your father's T-72

Image

Vivek K
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Vivek K » 25 Jun 2016 17:55

Karan M wrote:
......... With
increase in weight, apprehensions have arisen as to its seamless application in semideveloped
and developed sectors of the Western Front. In a review meeting on 20 April,
2015, the Hon'ble RM directed for a QR review committee "Regarding improvements in the
Mk-II & the increase in weight, it was decided that DRDO and User should mutually form a
QR and based on that DRDO should provide configuration giving weight budget. Thereafter
action plan would be made". The various aspects like Trafficability, Transportability, Agility,
Mobility and other operational/ functional problems caused by 6 tonne of additional weight
have been deliberated by the QR committee and the report is under finalisation at Directorate
General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF) office.

Just stop this and throw all Arjuns in the trash can! The DGMF has been opposed to the Arjun from day 1. Mera Bharat Mahaan!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Shanu » 25 Jun 2016 20:19

New T-90 self protection system to be developed indigenously.

The DAC, which considered Armoured Fighting Vehicle Protection and Counter Measure System for T90 tanks, directed this to be taken up as indigenous project to strengthen future capability.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 917637.cms

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby malushahi » 26 Jun 2016 07:21

Aditya G wrote:Plateau warriors?

Image


aditya, can you share the source for this picture?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby VKumar » 18 Sep 2016 20:15

wither Arjun II ? can one hope that Make in India will see Arjun II in the ORBAT by 2018?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Vatsal » 28 Sep 2016 19:30

Noob Question:

Why do we not see an additional MMG/GPMG/HMG on the gunners turret, though we do have a 12.7 mm on commander's turret and a coaxial? Also, does/plan to the corps up-armour the tanks with US TUSK like kit for protection of exposed crew?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby jamwal » 28 Sep 2016 20:15

Where'd you store so much ammunition ? These T-72s don't have much space inside anyway,

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 29 Sep 2016 08:57

India was developing a 1500 hp engine for the mk2 any chaiwala any one.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 30 Sep 2016 12:27

I don't know if anyone examined the NSA's statements in the recent past,which were posted in BRF in a td.He was addressing some ed institutions. He said effectively that unlike in previous land wars,tanks were becoming less vital in modern warfare,etc.(where urban warfare predominates). UCAVs,cyberwarfare.aircraft,subs,helos,etc. were urgently reqd. for our armed forces. If this is the GOI's thinking,then funds would be first allotted to other weapon systems needed before more MBTs are sanctioned,other than those already in the pipeline ,orders yet to be completed. Would this policy have an effect on Arjun-2 orders? The current crisis with Pak and the FM's statement about more funds for defence is v.welcome,but where will the additional funds go?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Sep 2016 12:47

Well Phlip, Defence preparedness will take some time but I would say this which was very poorly managed till a few years ago, it will take a few years to get ourselves to the readiness and ability we should be. The Tank fleet will probably get less priority than Long range Missiles, Nukes, Ships, Submarines, Aircraft, Artillery and even Infantry weapons. It something which will get addressed only when more critical requirements are addreessed, hope to 500 + overall orders for Arjun II someday

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby wig » 25 Oct 2016 12:42

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/new ... 262621.ece
Catherine cameras an integral part of Army’s T-90 main battle tanks

The most complete range of cameras available globally for target acquisition and weapon engagements by land vehicles — the Catherine family of thermal imaging cameras — are an integral part of the Indian Army’s T-90 Main Battle Tanks (MBTs).

The T-90s are originally Russian tanks. In November 2006, India ordered a batch of 330 T-90 tanks, to be licence-built by Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi near Chennai.

Making of ‘Bhishma’
The factory was set up by the Ordnance Factories Board to manufacture heavy battlefield equipment. It manufactures India’s main battle tank Arjun and the T-90s. The locally assembled MBTs were christened ‘Bhishma’, and are fitted with the Shtora self-protection system as well as Catherine thermal imagers from Thales of France and Peleng of Belarus.

India has about 850 T-90 tanks now and plans to induct 1,640 T-90 tanks by 2020. Though the Catherine thermal imager is already in service with the Indian Army, this May, French defence and aerospace company Thales won a new order.

“Thales won a contract from Beltech (European firm) to provide Catherine thermal imaging cameras for T-90 MBTs of the Indian Army,” said Antoine Caput, Vice-President and Country Director – India, Thales.

As part of the contract, Caput went on to add, “Thales is making a transfer of production to integrate 260 compact LWIR (longwave infrared) thermal imaging (TI) Catherine into Beltech’s TI Sights, that will be installed on the T-90 battle tanks of Indian Army.” The tanks have a guided weapon system and ballistic computer facilities to ensure accurate firing.

Noting that thermal imagers tend to allow gunners, commanders and observers see by night and by day in adverse conditions, Caput said more than 7,000 Catherine cameras are in service on-board 30 types of fighting vehicles globally.

The cameras’ combination of functionality, long-range performance and extended situational awareness has made the Catherine MP the current UK-preferred in-service Thermal Imager (TI) with the British Army. Its networked battlefield capability improves battlefield situational awareness, while the high definition TI with megapixel resolution offers flexibility and reliability where extreme performance is demanded on land, sea and air platforms.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Rakesh » 01 Nov 2016 08:54

Indian Army to soon have Russian T-90 tanks with 'Make in India' element as threat from Pakistan looms large
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-army-defence-arms-russian-t-90-tanks-make-in-india-pakistan-threat/1/799614.html

The 10 new regiments of T-90MS tanks, equipped with thermal imaging night sights to allow the tank commander to hit at enemy locations even during night battles, will strengthen army's fire power along the land border stretch with Pakistan-from Jammu in north till the western flank in Gujarat.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 01 Nov 2016 09:00

Is this MS, cause I was under the impression that the Avadi plant made the T 90 already.

PS, I just love the fact that we have to run to Russia everytime we need to add to the T90 fleet.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Rakesh » 01 Nov 2016 09:03

If you read the article, there is not one mention of what exactly in the T-90 is going to have a Make in India element. They should change the name to Assembled in India :D And the Arjun - unlike the Tejas vs F-16/Gripen debate - is a far superior tank. But never mind, I already know the answer. A supply chain was not established early on and thus the Army will continue to import onlee.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 01 Nov 2016 11:45

Not too well detailed a piece.The elephant in the room...Arjun,no mention at all!
Avadi has its hands full with various upgrades of T-72s,T-90 prod,Arjun prod (idle?) so it beats me what Indian input,unless it is from vendors,will be part of the beast.Not too long ago though we had the NSA saying that tanks were not that high a priority or something to that effect unlike aircraft,etc.If I remember correctly,earlier reports on the same mentioned 300+ MBTs.The number seems to have been increased by around 120.

http://defencenews.in/article/Army-to-s ... arge-29013
Army to soon have T-90 tanks with 'Make in India' element as threat from Pak looms large
Tuesday, November 01, 2016
By: India Today

The Indian Army plans to buy 464 advanced T-90 battle tanks from Russia for deployment on its western borders with Pakistan.

The Rs 13,448-crore contract will include a Make-in-India element for integration at the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi near Chennai.

The 10 new regiments of T-90MS tanks, equipped with thermal imaging night sights to allow the tank commander to hit at enemy locations even during night battles, will strengthen army's fire power along the land border stretch with Pakistan-from Jammu in north till the western flank in Gujarat.

LATEST TANKS TO TACKLE HEIGHTENED THREAT

"We are planning to procure the latest variants which would be deployed to tackle the heightened threat on the western front," highly-placed sources in the army told Mail Today.

Modalities of the proposal have been cleared by the army at the top level and would be soon placed for approval before Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar-led Defence Acquisition Council, the sources said.

India has already inducted 18 regiments of T-90 tanks which are deployed in Rajasthan and Punjab against on the Pakistan front.

However, the Indian Army's 4000-strong tank fleet has been battling with night blindness in the past and these new tanks would help in doing away with that, the sources said.
In addition it was found that key systems like the missile-firing mechanism and thermal sights had deteriorated due to prolonged exposure to heat and dust. This was pointed out in a recent comptroller and auditor general report. The Defence Ministry has decided to sort out the issues in addition to the radiators as the locally-produced equipment was creating problems in field operations, the sources said.

THE T-90 TANKS

The T-90 has emerged as the main battle tank of the Indian Army and is replacing the older variants of T-72 and T-55 tanks in the force.

India has about 850 T-90 tanks currently and plans to induct 1,657 by the year 2020.

The target of almost doubling the fleet in next three to four years seems a difficult task because the procurements were stuck due to issues related to escalating cost and local production.


The tanks are considered to be most advanced in the Indian inventory as they are equipped with sophisticated state-of-theart systems being produced in the country but they did not have air conditioners.

The Army initiated the process to buy ACs to be fitted in the tanks. To meet the challenges on the western front, the government also recently cleared acquisition of missiles and ammunition for these tanks under the fast-track acquisition process.

INDIA GOING BACK TO RUSSIA?

India's defence ties with Russia have been more than 60 years old and New Delhi was heavily dependent on Moscow for military hardware as it provided over 70 per cent supplies to the forces.

In recent years, the America and European sources have moved in to replace Russian equipment but the ties were rekindled recently.

India has now been showing an inclination to go back towards Russian defence buys with a deal worth Rs 39,000 crore in the pipeline to purchase five S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems which can engage enemy aircraft at 400 km.

During the recent visit by Russian President Vladimir Putin, India also signed a yet-to-bepriced agreement for joint manufacturing of 200 Kamov light helicopters which would be used by the army at high-altitude areas of Siachen and Ladakh for maintaining forward bases.

The mainstay of Indian Air Force is also the Su-30MKI combat aircraft- 272 of which are being procured from Russia.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby aditp » 01 Nov 2016 13:10

For such a long time there is no news of the Arjun tank in the media or even the social media! And now this news of more T90 in MS configuration. Looks like the MoD is quietly and resolutely burying the Arjun, something that could have been a clear winner in #MakeInIndia if only numbers had been jacked up. No news about the indigenous powerpack by DRDO either. :-?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby RKumar » 01 Nov 2016 14:57

when local products are systematically killed with delays, stuck in trials due to missing under the table culture. Will be really disappointed with GoI, Modi and MP if any new import order for T-90, single engine fighters or guns are placed.

We stand on our feet today or never .... there is no perfect time or system. You take a decision based on real facts and stick with it.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby aditp » 01 Nov 2016 15:27

Does anyone have an update, speculation, gossip, chaiwala , dhotiwalla news on the planned indigenous DRDO powerpack for the Arjun? Pls post

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/drdo-gets-into-action-mode/347607/

Four years of action mode and still no news!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Khalsa » 02 Nov 2016 00:49

Yeah I refused to believe and lived in denial.
But I believe that Arjun is being killed systematically.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby RohitAM » 02 Nov 2016 01:54

The entire T-90 fiasco is in the public domain for people to read, and it is abundantly clear that there are elements in the Army (starting with the DGMF office) which have sold themselves hook, line, and sinker to the Russians. Even after the CAG report on the Arjun vs. T-90 field trials went public, showing outright that the much-vaunted T-90 was pretty much hammered in almost every category by the Arjun Mk.I (including the much hyped mobility trials, where the T-90 should've apparently excelled against the heavier tank), the Army asked for further improvements for the Arjun Mk.II model, ordered more T-90's from Russia, asked for the TI sight to be imported from Thales, AND then asked DRDO to develop an AC unit for the T-90 to be retrofitted on existing and future units !!!

How can an army, whose on-the-ground units risk their lives everyday to keep India safe, have such traitors and betrayers in their upper echelons? Is there not even a shred of conscience in these folks that they shamelessly ask for continuous improvements in the Arjun, but are happy to accept Russian sardine cans as their MBT? Doesn't the DGMF realize that they are putting at risk not just soldiers' lives, but the entire country's future based on getting into the pants of a Natasha and having a suitcase full of worthless roubles? How can anyone in their right mind see that a domestic product, in its first iteration, is already better than the imported competitor, never mind the second upgraded iteration, and yet provide a directive to procure more of the sub-standard import?

This last statement might breach the forum rules, but honestly, I have wanted to say it on this forum for over a decade now, so I will proceed to do so: "Those in the country who are found guilty of being influenced (monetarily or otherwise) to ask for more imported T-90's in order to curtail the Arjun tank's progress and production should be taken to India Gate, pronounced guilty in absolutely clear terms, and be shot live on television (I have more unspeakable punishments in mind, but this will do) for treason and endangering the country's security, as well as the lives of its soldiers."

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Gyan » 02 Nov 2016 10:22

Arjun is dead. Present Govt has not awarded any major actual contract to indigenous systems. It has neither funded any major long term Defense R&D project nor curtailed imports. Therefore Arjun is a non starter.

Now if imports are preferred, we should go for weapon system which are required for "possible" and "current" scenarios rather than unlikely full scale mechanised war.

We should import Thermal imagers for infantry, DIRCM for IAF, active protection system for tanks, recce aircraft and satellites etc.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 02 Nov 2016 13:33

I thought 118 Arjun II has been ordered by present Govt, previous Govt kept deferring that order?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby d_berwal » 02 Nov 2016 20:30

Pratyush wrote:Is this MS, cause I was under the impression that the Avadi plant made the T 90 already.

PS, I just love the fact that we have to run to Russia everytime we need to add to the T90 fleet.


We have a license for 1800 to be built.

We only have around 900+ as of now.

We have placed an order of 450+ now and a another is coming in next year or so..!!!

there is nothing new here, there is no additional purchase beyond 1800.

DDM has given it a spin and we are back to name calling.

sudeepj
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby sudeepj » 02 Nov 2016 20:44

Prima facie, T90 MS looks like a much safer tank than the vanilla T90. The ammunition in the bustle with blowoff panels instead of being scattered everywhere within the tank makes it safer. So does the APU by reducing the tanks signature.

My grouse is, DRDO had the technology to make this tank a lot safer from day 1. Even today, you can probably cut a hole in the vanilla T90 and weld on a bustle and put the rounds not in the auto-loader in. These sensible mods are neither sought by the DGMF, nor by Avadi as the manufacturing agency, nor offered by DRDO. Some chap is going to say 'IPR'.. That is nonsense. We have bought the license to manufacture a specific design, we can make changes as we see fit.

Systemic and structural failure in our 'research-by-DRDO, manufacture by OFB, very little involvement of customer' model. If MP/NaMo can fix this, they would have done India a great service but so far, I dont see any evidence that they share this perspective.

Vivek K
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Vivek K » 03 Nov 2016 06:35

Modi's Make in India = Screw All Indians!

Vivek K
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Vivek K » 03 Nov 2016 06:35

Good times are here again for the corrupt arms dealers and their pimps.

ks_sachin
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 03 Nov 2016 08:51

sudeepj wrote:Prima facie, T90 MS looks like a much safer tank than the vanilla T90. The ammunition in the bustle with blowoff panels instead of being scattered everywhere within the tank makes it safer. So does the APU by reducing the tanks signature.

My grouse is, DRDO had the technology to make this tank a lot safer from day 1. Even today, you can probably cut a hole in the vanilla T90 and weld on a bustle and put the rounds not in the auto-loader in. These sensible mods are neither sought by the DGMF, nor by Avadi as the manufacturing agency, nor offered by DRDO. Some chap is going to say 'IPR'.. That is nonsense. We have bought the license to manufacture a specific design, we can make changes as we see fit.

Systemic and structural failure in our 'research-by-DRDO, manufacture by OFB, very little involvement of customer' model. If MP/NaMo can fix this, they would have done India a great service but so far, I dont see any evidence that they share this perspective.


How many rounds in the bustle?

rkhanna
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby rkhanna » 03 Nov 2016 11:11

" RohitAM » 01 Nov 2016

The entire T-90 fiasco is in the public domain for people to read,"


Remember the good old days when The Minister of Tourism used to write 9 page letters to the Defence Minster to lobby for Russian Equipment :)

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 03 Nov 2016 12:48

A fuller report on the T-90 requirement.

https://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2 ... sia_644329
India to buy advanced T-90 tanks from Russia
2 November 2016 SPUTNIK
Indian Army intends to purchase advanced T-90 tanks from Russia. Experts believe that it is best suited for deployment along the western border.

T-90 tanks Indian Army’s main force in land exercises

A Russian tank T-90 fires
The intended purchase of 460 T-90 tanks would be worth more than $2.1 billion with the Make in India component. Source:EPA / Vostock-photo
Furthering its defence cooperation with Russia, India is set to approve another high-value purchase from Moscow in next few weeks. Sources say that the Indian Army is interested in purchasing the latest version of T-90 tanks equipped with thermal imaging night vision cameras and some additional countermeasures to significantly reduce the chances of being hit by enemy anti-tank semi-automatic guided weapons. The Indian Army has submitted a proposal seeking final approval of the Defence Acquisition Council, the decision-making body for all India’s defence deals.

Russia, India will expand military cooperation with focus on Navy projects
Major General R K Arora (retired), Chief Editor of Indian Military Review, says, “We have still not finalized what our future battle tank will be like. Secondly, the development of the Arjun Mark 2 is taking more time; so there is a gap between now and may be 5 years or so before the development of future main battle tank takes place. So, it is a stopgap measure that we are going to buy more T-90 tanks. We may have 800 or so T-90 tanks just now. Now the government is planning to buy 460 more that will make it about 1,300 T-90 tanks in the fleet.”

The intended purchase of 460 T-90 tanks would be worth more than $2.1 billion with the Make in India component. Sputnik reported earlier that the Indian Army had put the T-90 on a list of products that domestic industry could help design and manufacture under the Army Design Bureau. The T-90 is already being assembled at Heavy Vehicle Factory (HVF), Avadi in the southern state of Tamil Nadu. The factory also produces T-72 tanks. It is not clear if the additional T-90 tanks will be produced by HVF or if the opportunity will be thrown open to the private sector.

Brigadier Rumel Dahiya (Retired), Deputy Director General, Institute of Defence and Security Analyses added his comments on the deal.

“Transfer of technology was part of the original deal signed with Russia to procure T-90 tanks initially. The transfer took some time but now I think the technology is available. Therefore it has become possible to manufacture the tanks all by us with most of the sub-assemblies being manufactured locally and the rest still required to be imported getting replaced by indigenously produced sub-assemblies over a period of time,” he said.

Currently, India has about 13 regiments of T-90 that could go up to 21 regiments by 2020. One regiment consists of 62 tanks. In November 2006, India ordered 330 T-90 tanks from Russia, out of which some are assembled at an Indian ordnance factory. Indian assembled tanks are fitted with the Shtora self-protection system as well as Catherine thermal images from Thales of France and Peleng of Belarus.

First published by Sputnik.

Austin
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 03 Nov 2016 13:18

ks_sachin wrote:How many rounds in the bustle?


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =firefox-b

niran
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby niran » 05 Nov 2016 19:26

History

in the immediate post war climate in West Germany, German weapons manufacturers were not involved in development and production of armored vehicles. However, that did not stop manufacturers like Porsche to try to sell its designs to foreign nation. In the period from 1954-55 joint venture formed from Porsche (overall design), Daimler-Benz (MB837A 8-cyl diesel engine), Zahnradfabrik AG of Friedrichshafen (tracks & parts of transmission), Ruhrstahl (turret & gun) and TATA (manufacturing in India plus sights & optics) offered their design to the Indian government. Intended to meet an Indian need for a 36-39 ton tank, the German submission would probably have been around 40 tons. Engine with the power of 670 HP would gave power to weight of around 16,7 hp/t and a top speed of around 50 km/h. Main armament consisted of 90 mm gun with The rifled barrel, while max armor thickness was 90 mm on the hull front and 130 mm on the turret front.

The Indian panzer competed with the British design, which the Indians eventually choose. Interestingly the Vickers tank was built entirely from welded rolled steel plates. According to some sources this feature was seen as an advantage by the Indian army, who wanted the tank to be license built in the country. Cast armor requires special foundry facilities, which were not available in India at the time the Vickers tank was developed. The Porsche design, on the contrary, had cast turret and much of the hull, so to build it in India might have been considered not impossible but surely quite difficult and expensive.
The project was rejected in the drawing phase, and no prototypes were ever built. The Indians eventually went for the Vickers MBT whose prototype was completed in 1963 and the tank entered service in 1965. The first 90 vehicles were built by Vickers in the UK, while production continued at the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi. A total of 2,200 units under the name Vijayanta were built until 1983 when the production was stopped.


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