Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion
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- BRFite
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
I'm seeing bunch of Mines .. dropped all over the passage routeAustin wrote:UAE BMP-3 destroyed in Yemen ( Picture and Video )
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1430929.html
From where they get those mines ..!! Possible Iranian supply line to ambush the UAE contingent
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1434420.html
This time it Saudi M2 Bradley , looks guerrilla warfare at play
https://youtu.be/h87a41N-IhU
This time it Saudi M2 Bradley , looks guerrilla warfare at play
https://youtu.be/h87a41N-IhU
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
Saudis M1A2SA against Yemen Huthis using Fagot ATGM , The first Tank suffered secondary explosion and second one atleast one manage to walk away ( Video )
https://youtu.be/a2GR-g9777k
Couple of other Saudi losses in pictures http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1443443.html
This M1 got captured by Huthis http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1446920.html
https://youtu.be/a2GR-g9777k
Couple of other Saudi losses in pictures http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1443443.html
This M1 got captured by Huthis http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1446920.html
Last edited by Austin on 26 Aug 2015 09:57, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
^^^ The Arabs are having a hard time in Yemen. Apparently they have lost a bunch of SPA and 4 Apaches as well.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
^^ One Apache lost , the video is there in 2nd link , Janes report
http://www.janes.com/article/53773/saud ... eni-border
http://www.janes.com/article/53773/saud ... eni-border
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
SPA as in SP arty ?
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
yesSPA as in SP arty ?
Also as per one of the ME forums I visit that Janes video is the video of a 4th Apache.
Saudi Armour destroyed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvy7VcN3tkI
They seem to have a lost a military base as well.
Ofcourse most of the videos/news out there is coming out of Iran.
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- BRF Oldie
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
^Looks badass . From where and on what occasion?
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
It's Tata Kestrel. For replacing Bmp-1/2.
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- BRF Oldie
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
I know man, just asking what the specific occasion was and where the pictures were taken. These pics are new (as far as I know).
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
the saudis are proving their incompetence in full flow. sending armour vehicles into isolated outposts to cow down people with the "made in america" stamp....without the infantry, artillery and helicopters and drones that protect the american armour in such overwatch situations.
houthis are having a field day creeping in and using RPG and ATGMs at close range.
we are seeing the "true" vulnerabilities of the shiny western kit without the overwhelming superiority in all aspects that makes them look so good in american hands.
houthis are having a field day creeping in and using RPG and ATGMs at close range.
we are seeing the "true" vulnerabilities of the shiny western kit without the overwhelming superiority in all aspects that makes them look so good in american hands.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
A wheeled APC will not be replacing a tracked IFV. There is a separate competition for that. Hopefully, this system will enter service and allow for much larger mechanization of infantry. Like what Stryker did for the US Army.salaam wrote:It's Tata Kestrel. For replacing Bmp-1/2.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
copied from a different forum ...location should be pune.Arun Menon wrote:I know man, just asking what the specific occasion was and where the pictures were taken. These pics are new (as far as I know).
In addition to that , "The wheeled amphibious ICV platform (Kestrel) that Tata Motors has developed, is an infantry combat vehicle. It is powered by a 600 bhp ISLe engine. It is also a part of the program that is funded by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). Tata Motors has received an order for three, and will be fitted with diverse machine kits. It is a modular platform explained Noronha. He further explained that Tata Motors acquired many systems to put in Kestrel. Hydro-pneumatic struts, and electronic systems and architecture with plug and play for example. Group companies like TCS, Tata Cummins helped with the design"
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
kestrel is without the unmanned weapons station here. i think a few are on offer depending on user request.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
Thanks man, nice update.Shaun wrote:copied from a different forum ...location should be pune.
In addition to that , "The wheeled amphibious ICV platform (Kestrel) that Tata Motors has developed, is an infantry combat vehicle. It is powered by a 600 bhp ISLe engine. It is also a part of the program that is funded by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). Tata Motors has received an order for three, and will be fitted with diverse machine kits. It is a modular platform explained Noronha. He further explained that Tata Motors acquired many systems to put in Kestrel. Hydro-pneumatic struts, and electronic systems and architecture with plug and play for example. Group companies like TCS, Tata Cummins helped with the design"
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
Yes Sir , we jingos are always happy to see indigenous products
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
Not made in Rodina. Will not be bought
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
How many troops can the Kestrel carry? What is the armament planned for it? Size vs BMP series-for easy air lift using existing transports and lastly cost,purely for a comparative study.
It looks v. good,low and long.Could it be the platform for other variants,like an anti-tank version with ATGMs,air defence similar to the Tunguska series,etc. There is plenty of space at the rear for accommodating whatever weaponry is required.Being wheeled,it can be used only where the IA can operate wheeled AVs,but perhaps the basic hull design could be tweaked into developing a tracked avatar.Nice size for a light tank too for Himalyan uses.China has developed its own light tank for Tibet.
It looks v. good,low and long.Could it be the platform for other variants,like an anti-tank version with ATGMs,air defence similar to the Tunguska series,etc. There is plenty of space at the rear for accommodating whatever weaponry is required.Being wheeled,it can be used only where the IA can operate wheeled AVs,but perhaps the basic hull design could be tweaked into developing a tracked avatar.Nice size for a light tank too for Himalyan uses.China has developed its own light tank for Tibet.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
@Philip
IMVHO this vehicle type is different to the BMP series, with much more versatility and flexibility of roles.
As has been mentioned on this thread earlier :
About 9 or 10 troops + 3 crew members
The Kestrel is fitted with Norwegian Kongsberg MCT-30-R remotely controlled turret, armed with American 30-mm Mk44 Bushmaster II cannon.
It is possible to convert this cannon to a 40-mm caliber. Only barrel and few parts have to be changed. This cannon fires Armor-Piercing Incendiary (API), High-Explosive Incendiary (HEI) and Armor-Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot Tracer (APFSDS-T) rounds. This cannon has effective range of 3 000 m. There is also a secondary 7.62-mm machine gun. The Kongsberg turret allows the installation of Javelin anti-tank guided missiles along the cannon.
A prototype that was revealed in 2014 also had a remotely controlled weapon station with 12.7-mm machine gun and one more Javelin launcher. It was mounted on top of the turret roof. Production APCs can be fitted with various weapon stations and turrets, depending on customer requirements.
Weight: 22.5 - 26 t
And here are some of it's contemporaries w.r.t role, dimensions and design similarities -
Pandur - Austria
Boxer MRAV - Germany
Centauro - Italy
ATOM IFV - Russia
Havoc - USA
IVECO SuperAV - Italy
Patria - Finland
IMVHO this vehicle type is different to the BMP series, with much more versatility and flexibility of roles.
As has been mentioned on this thread earlier :
About 9 or 10 troops + 3 crew members
The Kestrel is fitted with Norwegian Kongsberg MCT-30-R remotely controlled turret, armed with American 30-mm Mk44 Bushmaster II cannon.
It is possible to convert this cannon to a 40-mm caliber. Only barrel and few parts have to be changed. This cannon fires Armor-Piercing Incendiary (API), High-Explosive Incendiary (HEI) and Armor-Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot Tracer (APFSDS-T) rounds. This cannon has effective range of 3 000 m. There is also a secondary 7.62-mm machine gun. The Kongsberg turret allows the installation of Javelin anti-tank guided missiles along the cannon.
A prototype that was revealed in 2014 also had a remotely controlled weapon station with 12.7-mm machine gun and one more Javelin launcher. It was mounted on top of the turret roof. Production APCs can be fitted with various weapon stations and turrets, depending on customer requirements.
Weight: 22.5 - 26 t
And here are some of it's contemporaries w.r.t role, dimensions and design similarities -
Pandur - Austria
Boxer MRAV - Germany
Centauro - Italy
ATOM IFV - Russia
Havoc - USA
IVECO SuperAV - Italy
Patria - Finland
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
It is Indian. That is what counts the most. The rest can be built or grow around this simple concept.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
@NRao
Absolutely!!
Let Mahindra, Reliance, Maruti et all get into making competitive or supplementary models
IMVHO it is with such type of products that the Indian MIC will start... not the glamorous big ticket items.
Absolutely!!
Let Mahindra, Reliance, Maruti et all get into making competitive or supplementary models
IMVHO it is with such type of products that the Indian MIC will start... not the glamorous big ticket items.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
- 9 troops
- seats attached to roof for mine protection
- two waterjets for being amphibious
- emergency roof hatches for the troops
- vision and firing ports for individual weapons
- 600 hp turbocharged diesel engine
- separation of fuel tank from crew compartment - in BMP, the rear doors are also fuel tanks.
we can use the arjun optics and thermals and the BMP2's cannon (if its made locally) to keep the cost of armaments low. the Milan2T produced at BDL can be used.
- seats attached to roof for mine protection
- two waterjets for being amphibious
- emergency roof hatches for the troops
- vision and firing ports for individual weapons
- 600 hp turbocharged diesel engine
- separation of fuel tank from crew compartment - in BMP, the rear doors are also fuel tanks.
we can use the arjun optics and thermals and the BMP2's cannon (if its made locally) to keep the cost of armaments low. the Milan2T produced at BDL can be used.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
a-0-a, is that a bow flap for hydroplaning? But I doubt, considering the draggy wheels hanging below the keel
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
we need to ensure that our next APC/ICV is compatible with our MTA (and vice versa). you cant simply depend on the handful of IL-76 & C17's.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
there was requirement for 200 wheeled APCs for India's various UN missions.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
The height and breadth of the MTA cabin is identical to IL-76. So vehicles that "fit" inside IL-76, will fit inside the MTA (and of course the C-17). Coming back to the Kestrel, it will fit, but it is too heavy. This is why, there have been calls for the MTA to have a payload carrying capacity of 25 Tons. However, such calls have been quickly rebutted because it is very rare for planes to take off and land with max payload at airports near Indian borders, which are either hot or high, or both. For example Boeing was very gung-ho (and rightly so) when C-17 landed and took off with a 30 ton payload at Leh on a summer day. The IL-76 cannot do so with even 0 payload during such days.Rahul M wrote:we need to ensure that our next APC/ICV is compatible with our MTA (and vice versa). you cant simply depend on the handful of IL-76 & C17's.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
exactly, 20 t would be the tops for MTA and we need to have a version of APC lighter than that. may be removable bolt on armour as an option but this compatibility is a must need if we ever intend significant force movements 10-15 years down the line.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
MTA?
For the SCS you need some good landing ships.
But, I do support "our MTA".
For the SCS you need some good landing ships.
But, I do support "our MTA".
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
The MTA is nowhere in sight
I would first get the Wheeled APCs in and change some parts of the IA from a lorry army
I would first get the Wheeled APCs in and change some parts of the IA from a lorry army
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
T-72 Upgrade with Urban Warfare Kit displayed at RAE-2015 ( Photos )
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/67815/
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/67815/
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
That cupola is an ATGM/RPG magnet.. easy way to kill 1 crew and make the tank withdrawAustin wrote:T-72 Upgrade with Urban Warfare Kit displayed at RAE-2015 ( Photos )
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/67815/
A RCWS with 360 deg optics, redundancy and armored doghouse would be a 10x better solution.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
^^ If you recollect even US Troops operating MRAP in Iraq and Afghanistan had similar coupla , the kit looks like a cheaper quick fix option for Urban environment not a comprehensive fit with other options
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
US troops doing it for quick fix doesn't mean its a sure shot solution does it...M60 had a cupola..removed in Abrams for the kind of weakness it represented...this is a tank not the MRAP.. should get the best kit since its an offensive tool.
Abrams Urban Kit for standard is much better http://defense-update.com/products/t/tusk.htm,have the cupola as protection only when loader etc steps out but not as a standard solution..
It is a quick fix solution indeed.. but with significant limitations when operating against professional armies.. perhaps good against irregulars with limited training/ammo eg FSA in Syria..
Abrams Urban Kit for standard is much better http://defense-update.com/products/t/tusk.htm,have the cupola as protection only when loader etc steps out but not as a standard solution..
It is a quick fix solution indeed.. but with significant limitations when operating against professional armies.. perhaps good against irregulars with limited training/ammo eg FSA in Syria..
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- BRFite
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
Actually the Kestrel is the ideal platform for plenty of things;
FICV for use with the IA
Marine ICV for use with IN's upcoming Naval Brigades
IMO the ideal platform for Namica
105mm Light Wheeled Artillery or light tank that can be air dropped
Ideal platform for Akash Launcher
Unmanned Ground vehicle
Command and control, recon vehicle
Arm this puppy with the Sky shield Air defense module and you also an have a dedicated Anti Air vehicle for the strike corps
However, it is quite important in this day and age to have it properly equipped with an APS, this should drastically increase survivability in high threat zones.
I feel a nice fat order of around 5000 of these in various forms would be needed.
FICV for use with the IA
Marine ICV for use with IN's upcoming Naval Brigades
IMO the ideal platform for Namica
105mm Light Wheeled Artillery or light tank that can be air dropped
Ideal platform for Akash Launcher
Unmanned Ground vehicle
Command and control, recon vehicle
Arm this puppy with the Sky shield Air defense module and you also an have a dedicated Anti Air vehicle for the strike corps
However, it is quite important in this day and age to have it properly equipped with an APS, this should drastically increase survivability in high threat zones.
I feel a nice fat order of around 5000 of these in various forms would be needed.
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- BRFite
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
I also feel Sky shield should be the common Anti Air system across the board, can be fitted on trucks, armored vehicles, ships. Ideal, the system is pretty advanced and the best replacement for the Anti air guns.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
The whole concept of Air Defense Guns is out dated and this role can be taken up in India by Akash missile system.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014
Nonsense. What do you think close in weapons systems use?Gyan wrote:The whole concept of Air Defense Guns is out dated and this role can be taken up in India by Akash missile system.