And boo to Dhiraj for cribbing about costs of Arjun.

Kakkaji wrote:If you compare with off-the-shelf foreign products, new indigenously developed products will always be more expensive. With this criterion, the indigenous products will never see the light of day
dhiraj wrote:Are Sir, maaf kar dijiye.
Kakkaji wrote:The fact that Liu showed up on this thread just after the news for the Arjun Mark2 order came out, shows that the adversaries are feeling 'mirchi' up their a$$e$ on the news.
And boo to Dhiraj for cribbing about costs of Arjun.If you compare with off-the-shelf foreign products, new indigenously developed products will always be more expensive. With this criterion, the indigenous products will never see the light of day.
Aditya_V wrote:Anther intresting fact, it was the NDA govt which ordered 124 Arjun-1's and now ordering the Arjun MK-II.
Aditya_V wrote:Anther intresting fact, it was the NDA govt which ordered 124 Arjun-1's and now ordering the Arjun MK-II.
What did the UPA Govt do for 10 years, they cancelled the Denel anti material rifle deal since it was causing too many Pakistani casualties, delayed Barak-1 and triedto cancel the indegenious manufacture of 155 mm shells, turned the M-2000-5 order into the MMRCA contest which they did not sign in 10 years.
Only Italian Baretta SMG's, C-130 J, C-17 and luckily P-8I got priority. Also they did good job of ordering Akash.
It seems the whole philosphy was we should not buy offensive weapons.
chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
dhiraj wrote:Kakkaji wrote:If you compare with off-the-shelf foreign products, new indigenously developed products will always be more expensive. With this criterion, the indigenous products will never see the light of day
Are Sir, maaf kar dijiye. In fact we should buy more Arjun to reduce the cost. No intention of being part of anti-Arjun brigade or someone who tries to take advantage of a simple calculation.
chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
Liu wrote:chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
China sent T96a for recent competition in RUssia.
T96a is just the low-end MBT of PLA,which costs only 1/3 of T99a.
In order to control the unit cost of T96a, Chinese have to put one cheap small engine into T96 while give T96a decent cannon, FCS and armor .
Thus, T96a have a poorer mobility ,but better cannon ,FCS and armor than T72.
Just having a look at the video of the competition in Russia ,we can see that moving T96a can lock and destroy the target much more efficiently than T72, while T72 has much better mobility than T96a....
in a word, CHinese engineers pay much more attention to FCS,cannon and armor than mobility while Russians pay more attention to mobility....
NRao wrote:This Chinese tank failed to function.
negi wrote:You have to give to the Chipanda drones they never felt the heat when India bought more expensive systems like C-17 or even the MKIs however we build and commission an MBT ourselves and they show this concern for the tank being expensive. Not that they need to be be responded to but fact of the matter is a 10 million $ Arjun MKII is still cheaper than a 1 million $ T-90 , a major chunk of the 10 million $ price tag is leak(corruption) .....
Liu wrote:China sent T96a for recent competition in RUssia.
T96a is just the low-end MBT of PLA,which costs only 1/3 of T99a.
In order to control the unit cost of T96a, Chinese have to put one cheap small engine into T96 while give T96a decent cannon, FCS and armor .
Thus, T96a have a poorer mobility ,but better cannon ,FCS and armor than T72.
Just having a look at the video of the competition in Russia ,we can see that moving T96a can lock and destroy the target much more efficiently than T72, while T72 has much better mobility than T96a....
in a word, CHinese engineers pay much more attention to FCS,cannon and armor than mobility while Russians pay more attention to mobility....
hecky wrote:chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
Chacko any idea how many Arjun MkI have been delivered to Army out of total 124+124 ordered.
uddu wrote:Chaco, is it possible for you to ask the PM or the DM during any media event, why there is no huge orders for the Arjun in the thousand and only a mere order of 100?
Hopefully they are aware of the matter and would like to know the govt response to tide over the situation of low rate production of this great tank.
Could you get some updates on this Mark III variant. Is this going to be the three men crew tank? a lighter version of Arjun tank?
chackojoseph wrote:hecky wrote:...
Chacko any idea how many Arjun MkI have been delivered to Army out of total 124+124 ordered.
Actually there were reports last year that the the production was at fag end. I suppose the factory must be idling by now to make govt sit up and pass mk II with 10 odd less improvements originally desired.
srai wrote:hecky wrote:..
Chacko any idea how many Arjun MkI have been delivered to Army out of total 124+124 ordered.
There was no second 124 order for Mk.1 variant. That second order became 118 for Mk.2 variant, which was approved just recently. So the total Arjun orders/deliveries up to this point is 124 Mk.1 (delivered) and 118 Mk.2 (orders approved). Expect 2 years for the first lot delivery.
Rien wrote:^^^^
Above makes sense. But Army needs to place order for thousands. When will they give Tata the order?
rohitvats wrote:Rien wrote:^^^^
Above makes sense. But Army needs to place order for thousands. When will they give Tata the order?
Do you know that there is a FICV program under-way under the 'Make India' category where Indian firms in partnership with foreign players have been asked to submit their designs? And the fact that while 2 designs will be short-listed and R&D funded mostly by MOD (80:20 Public Private), one design will be short-listed? And not only that, the losing party will get order to manufacture certain percentage of winning design as well?
Read this: http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140617/DEFREG03/306170042/India-May-Restart-Vehicle-Program
merlin wrote:rohitvats wrote:Do you know that there is a FICV program under-way under the 'Make India' category where Indian firms in partnership with foreign players have been asked to submit their designs? And the fact that while 2 designs will be short-listed and R&D funded mostly by MOD (80:20 Public Private), one design will be short-listed? And not only that, the losing party will get order to manufacture certain percentage of winning design as well?
Read this: http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140617/DEFREG03/306170042/India-May-Restart-Vehicle-Program
I wonder what was the real reason for stalling the original 2009 proposal? Were the bids not realistic in terms of design and indigenous content? Or some other reason?
But the MoD’s Acquisitions Wing, which must make the short list, now complains that the tender (called an Expression of Interest, or EoI) did not define the criteria by which the winners would be selected. It wants a fresh EoI to be issued, with the criteria specified.
The wing cites the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) of 2008, where Para 22 of the “Make” category, covering the FICV project, says: “The EoI should also lay down the broad parameters of the evaluation process and acceptance criterion for the system under development.”
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