MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Dec 2015 09:53

This beggars a big Q.What then (armour) do the Brit. Chobam armpour and German Leopard MBTs use?
Surely even the US will not sell a tin can M-1 to a friend and ally. Do the Brits and Germans alos have a second-class MBT for export?

Some other form of decent composite armour needs to be used as reports of such losses will reduce exports.Or perhaps the US thought that the Oilygarchs would never use them in battle!

After all the Soothis love to shoot off someone else's shoulder,usually a Western one. Yemen is the first time that we're seeing the Saudis and their Gulfie allies actually on the battlefield together.This has exposed their serious shortcomings. They are not tough battle scarred veterans like the Iranians,,Afghans or even Iraqis,some of whom fled ISIS in disgrace.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Dec 2015 10:17

To fight you need individuals with figthing spirit, cause to fight or even need to fight. Otherwise, you may be a professional to fight. Their leaders shall have basic leadership qualities etc. Does Arab mullas and rulers of today encourage that kind of people? No. In such situation what do you expect from an army of mindless people to have nothing to fight but asking to fight. On the other hand, those who are fighting in Yemen at least seems to have a cause and have some serious exposure to fighting experience before the present war.

You may hide in a tough-skinned box for some time, but any such box can be broken given time and effort.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Jan 2016 08:58

MBT Arjun Mote Firing Successful

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 215521.ece

BALASORE: The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) on Wednesday conducted two rounds of successful ‘mote firing’ of its newly developed ammunition from a tank targeting another tank at a defence test facility off the Odisha coast in a war like scenario.

Defence sources said such a complicated exercise, carried out for the first time in the country, passed off successfully with the ammunition hitting the tank as expected. The tests were conducted at about 11.25 am and 12.25 pm at the test range of Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE) at Chandipur-on-sea.

“High explosive ammunitions were fired from the indigenously developed main battle tank (MBT) Arjun against the decommissioned Russian T55 tank. The T55 tank was instrumented for the purpose and the ammunition successfully hit the tank,” said a defence official. The whole objective of the test was to capture data generated during the trial and analyse it whether it had the required effect on the target.

MBT Arjun...

Besides gauging the efficiency of the Arjun tank which is a pride of DRDO, the test also confirmed the fire power of the ammunition.

New ammunitions like thermobaric and high explosives (HE) were fired against the T55. The Russian tank has been replaced by the Arjun main battle in the Indian Army. As tanks like T55 are with other countries, the trials were aimed at ascertaining the effect of the new ammunitions on such tanks.

“The test was conducted for that first time. Similar trials have also been planned on Thursday. Earlier, no instrumented tank was targeted by another tank during such trials though several tests of open firing from Arjun tank have been conducted in the Pokhran range of Rajasthan,” the official informed.

Arjun is a third generation main battle tank (MBT) developed by DRDO. It features a 120 mm main rifled gun with indigenously developed armour-piercing fin-stabilised discarding-sabot ammunition, one PKT 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun, and an NSVT 12.7 mm machine gun. It is powered by a single MTU multi-fuel diesel engine rated at 1,400 hp, and can achieve a maximum speed of 67 km/h and a cross-country speed of 40 km/h. The tank has proved its worth under various circumstances. Last year, it had received global accolades with the Chinese military officials praising the tank which suits Indian conditions. The Arjun was commissioned in the Army in 2004.

Do we know the status of the 1500hp engine planned?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Jan 2016 09:39

Why use a T-55 which is hardly used today? We should test the ammo against the latest and best if available.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 07 Jan 2016 15:31

Instead of T-55 they should have used a T-90.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 07 Jan 2016 15:53

^It would have been the same result, so why waste money?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Jan 2016 16:12

Yaas,better still an M-1.Same result!

But seriously,has an Arjun taken on another Arjun in exercises for the sake of experimentation? The CVRDE surely must've tested the Kanchan armour against various projectiles,both used by us and the enemy.The Arjun's gun against both western and eastern armour too.
There are heaps of wrecks available for scrap all over the ME. It wouldn't cost a fortune to acquire some of them and examine their innards,armour,etc. The easiest way to achieve this is to outsource the same to the Israelis!

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 07 Jan 2016 16:42

Philip wrote:The CVRDE surely must've tested the Kanchan armour against various projectiles

They did against Russian tank guns and found out they barely scratched it at point blank range. I guess they were only meant to penetrate tin cans.

habal · Post by **habal** » 07 Jan 2016 17:01

Russians have sent a few T-90s to Aleppo, Syria to check out whether they are indeed tincans or worth their while. Uptil now there have been only positive reports about their ATGM dodging capabilities. Shtora and Arena seem to be doing well in Syria.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 07 Jan 2016 17:35

^^^
Are there any videos of them dodging ATGMS in the field?

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 07 Jan 2016 17:37

Get back on topic, gang!
We have other threads for discussions relating to the Bhishma/Ajeya.
And Pakistanis still use the Type59 (Taller than version of the T-55) and some are even "upgraded"

to the Al WhatsHisName standard.
Wiki puts the Type59 numbers for the uniformed Jehadi force at 600, plus another 300 something for the Niqab'd variant.

habal · Post by **habal** » 07 Jan 2016 17:49

abhik wrote:^^^
Are there any videos of them dodging ATGMS in the field?

No. Only field reports.

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » 08 Jan 2016 06:34

Arun Menon wrote:^It would have been the same result, so why waste money?

As also against the Armata.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2016 07:07

Philip, Its an instrumented test of the ammo. Old discarded T-55 is a convenient target.

Like Navy fires Brahmos against old ships.

Thanks, ramana

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Jan 2016 08:06

I think India has plenty of funds for such tests. Indians should have used a T-90S, instrumented it, got the results and analyzed them to get the same answer and feel better.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 08 Jan 2016 08:11

NRao wrote:I think India has plenty of funds for such tests. Indians should have used a T-90S, instrumented it, got the results and analyzed them to get the same answer and feel better.

Even this will be done. I have seen these tests long time back at the location mentioned. Nothing will be left to chance.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 08 Jan 2016 08:18

Philip wrote:Yaas,better still an M-1.Same result!

But seriously,has an Arjun taken on another Arjun in exercises for the sake of experimentation? The CVRDE surely must've tested the Kanchan armour against various projectiles,both used by us and the enemy.The Arjun's gun against both western and eastern armour too.
There are heaps of wrecks available for scrap all over the ME. It wouldn't cost a fortune to acquire some of them and examine their innards,armour,etc. The easiest way to achieve this is to outsource the same to the Israelis!

T-55 and 72 fired their projectile at point black on kanchan , no affect !! That test happened years back , now we have new generation of kanchan

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 08 Jan 2016 08:35

Having Arjun fire against T-90 'Masala' dabbas will definitely make Putin froth and same for a huge swathe of Generals (ex-now) and Babus. A panic attack is not a good way to start the New Year !

Only fools will keep their precious jewellery in tin cans instead of iron dabbas. We are either fools or don't care about our soldiers lives. Somedays it feels like we are both.

Bright side is that they media did not report that the test was successful (even after T50 was knocked out) and we placed orders for 500 additional T-50's from Russia

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jan 2016 12:44

T-50? I think you mean T-90. I don't think there is any public report where either tank fired against a hull (T-90 vs Arjun,.vice-versa) Latest T-90 versions have improved armour.One Q remains though,whether Indian built T-90s are of the same armour std. as Ru T-90s,as there are export and home versions. It is a moot point whether Kanchan armour could be used for India-built T-90s if were found superior. The latest Armata designs have integrated flush ERA panels,not applique,as seen on our T-90s and A-2.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 08 Jan 2016 13:18

They did against Russian tank guns and found out they barely scratched it at point blank range. I guess they were only meant to penetrate tin cans.

Anybody here remmeber that Israeli guy who used to post on BR. Claiming to be part of an Israeli Tech team assisting India on the Arjun? He had made a number of claims of how the Kanchan armour was test.

Was he legit? Does anybody remmember

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 08 Jan 2016 13:39

My spider feeling .... large number of Arjun's will be ordered soon with some more inputs from IA.

srai · Post by **srai** » 08 Jan 2016 15:13

Philip wrote:T-50? I think you mean T-90. I don't think there is any public report where either tank fired against a hull (T-90 vs Arjun,.vice-versa) Latest T-90 versions have improved armour.One Q remains though,whether Indian built T-90s are of the same armour std. as Ru T-90s,as there are export and home versions. It is a moot point whether Kanchan armour could be used for India-built T-90s if were found superior. The latest Armata designs have integrated flush ERA panels,not applique,as seen on our T-90s and A-2.

It was T-72 firing point blank at Kanchan armor which it was able to withstand.

Arjun Mk1 Armor can stand a hit from T-72 from point blank range

nchan" ("gold") modular composite armour, which derived its name from Kanchan Bagh, Hyderabad, where the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) is located.[44] Kanchan is made by sandwiching composite panels between Rolled Homogenous Armor (RHA). This helps in defeating APFDS and HEAT rounds. Trials conducted in 2000, showcased the ability of Kanchan armour to protect the tank, even when hit at point blank range by a T-72.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 08 Jan 2016 15:34

^Pathetic tin can. Can't survive a hit and can't itself.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2016 08:42

Greatest pic ever! If this can't cause terror, what can?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2016 11:03

Agree with you Arun,the tin can M-1 can't!

Has the Arjun 's Kanchan armour been tested against the T-90,M-1,Challenger,Le Clerc /NATO ammo/ATGMs available? Of course details would be highly classified,but perhaps there is some info around.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 09 Jan 2016 11:49

I hope they order at least 500 Arjun-2 soon. But lets wait and see.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Jan 2016 13:08

RKumar wrote:My spider feeling .... large number of Arjun's will be ordered soon with some more inputs from IA.

Same. Why else would they be testing new shells?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Jan 2016 13:09

Philip wrote:Agree with you Arun,the tin can M-1 can't!

Has the Arjun 's Kanchan armour been tested against the T-90,M-1,Challenger,Le Clerc /NATO ammo/ATGMs available? Of course details would be highly classified,but perhaps there is some info around.

Has the rust bucket you love so much?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 09 Jan 2016 13:28

Video from the latest exercise.

The funny part is that the the Media could not differentiate between Arjun and T-90

The mixed up must have happened because the view is that T-90 is modern so the visual of the Most modern tank is shown which turned out to be Arjun.

Media need some basic training. They are at Level Zero when it comes to defense matters.

srai · Post by **srai** » 09 Jan 2016 18:54

uddu wrote:
Video from the latest exercise.

The funny part is that the the Media could not differentiate between Arjun and T-90 The mixed up must have happened because the view is that T-90 is modern so the visual of the Most modern tank is shown which turned out to be Arjun. Media need some basic training. They are at Level Zero when it comes to defense matters.

DDM at its best!!!

Not only they show Arjun as T-90 but then show T-72 as Arjun. Then they even say Arjun was made in Russia before but is now made in India

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Jan 2016 22:12

That video is one big mess.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 10 Jan 2016 02:48

Fire-power of DRDO's Arjun Tank takes quantum jump with new ammunition: MoD.

India on Saturday said the new ammunition for Arjun Tank, successfully tested by DRDO, will provide a "quantum jump" in fire-power of the indigenously-developed main battle tank.

The new tank ammunition called 'Penetration-Cum Blast (PCB) and Thermobaric (TB) Ammunition' is specially designed for Arjun Tank and was recently tested by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

"The trials were found to be very effective and the damage was devastating with the firing of ammunition successfully destroying the target tank and severely damaging its turret, barrel, tracks, ammunition bin, various sights, antennas among others," the Defence Ministry said in a statement.

The ammunitions have been developed by Pune-based DRDO laboratories Armament Research and Development Establishment ( ARDE) and High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL).

During the development phase, these ammunitions were extensively evaluated against different simulated targets - armour plates, concrete structures and fortifications.

The trials were conducted jointly with Army and was aimed to demonstrate the effectiveness of the ammunitions on derelict tank fitted with instrumentation to measure the shocks, blast pressure and temperature at various locations and on advanced imaging systems.

"The trials were unique as for the first time such evaluation is carried out in India which will give a quantum jump in the fire-power of Arjun tanks," the Ministry said.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Jan 2016 06:24

Still haven't covered up the turret with ERA tiles all around.

srai · Post by **srai** » 10 Jan 2016 08:30

Vipul wrote:Fire-power of DRDO's Arjun Tank takes quantum jump with new ammunition: MoD.

India on Saturday said the new ammunition for Arjun Tank, successfully tested by DRDO, will provide a "quantum jump" in fire-power of the indigenously-developed main battle tank.

The new tank ammunition called 'Penetration-Cum Blast (PCB) and Thermobaric (TB) Ammunition' is specially designed for Arjun Tank and was recently tested by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

"The trials were found to be very effective and the damage was devastating with the firing of ammunition successfully destroying the target tank and severely damaging its turret, barrel, tracks, ammunition bin, various sights, antennas among others," the Defence Ministry said in a statement.

The ammunitions have been developed by Pune-based DRDO laboratories Armament Research and Development Establishment ( ARDE) and High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL).

During the development phase, these ammunitions were extensively evaluated against different simulated targets - armour plates, concrete structures and fortifications.

The trials were conducted jointly with Army and was aimed to demonstrate the effectiveness of the ammunitions on derelict tank fitted with instrumentation to measure the shocks, blast pressure and temperature at various locations and on advanced imaging systems.

"The trials were unique as for the first time such evaluation is carried out in India which will give a quantum jump in the fire-power of Arjun tanks," the Ministry said.

New rounds basically deliver "mission-kill" of MBTs even if they don't penetrate. With most of the external sensors destroyed, enemy MBT would be much easier picking subsequently. Good against MBTs that may be superior (or hard to penetrate frontal-arc armor). First shot use these new PCB/TB round to disable their sensors/targeting/maneuverability and then second shot use a well placed APFSDS in a weaker armored area to destroy them.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jan 2016 09:43

Same news but with a powerful pic

http://indianexpress.com/article/cities ... s-in-pune/

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jan 2016 09:45

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Jan 2016 12:42

SaiK wrote:Same news but with a powerful pic

http://indianexpress.com/article/cities ... s-in-pune/

Arjun Tank -> Posts picture of T90

Lets just rename T90 as Arjun and be happy that we inducted thousands of them

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Jan 2016 15:15

Excellent dev. the new ammo for Arjun.However,nitpicking as usual,the numbers of Arjuns in the IA's inventory is pitiful.Just 124 A-1s with another 124 A-2s on line? When you look at the thousands of T-72s (being upgraded) and T-90s in service and on order,300+more T-90s,these T-series MBTs being the "meat" so to speak,of the IA's amour ; the Q one is asking is whether these T-series tanks already possess the new-type ammo developed for Arjun.This tech breakthrough must travel downstream into all ammo for MBTs to give them the advantage over the enemy. Interesting to find out what type of ammo the enemy,PA and PLA use.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2016 16:15

In short, the T-series is surviving because of Arjun development. What's there in Arjun is getting ported to T-series and providing it the oxygen to survive.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2016 16:17

Older images of Mark-1 firing

https://battlemachines.files.wordpress. ... .jpg?w=720