Naval LCA - News and Discussion

kapilrdave
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby kapilrdave » 15 Jun 2016 11:13

Apologies in advance if this questions comes off as too naive.

Is it possible to make NLCA STOVL capable? Is the current engine capable of doing that or it requires a whole new one? I understand that there would be serious design changes required for this along with TVC, but if at all we can achieve this in a reasonable time frame, then it might be useful in realizing this strategy.

Philip wrote:This why I postulate that for the IN which cannot afford a USN style navy or supercarriers,puttign all its eggs into one supercarrier basket,should build all its major surface warships above 10/12k t with flat tops/flight decks to accommodate a variety of aircraft ,both fxd wing and STOVL and helos.Missiles can be accommodated flush-deck. The increase/dispersal of aviation assets in such manner will vastly increase the combat radius and defensive zone of warships and task forces and their survivability.Instead of possessing just 2-3 carriers, a dozen such flat tops will spread the responsibility of ops depending upon the nature of the threat,whether it requires a CBG, large task force or smaller flotilla to deal with the threat. SoKo and the Japanese are systematically building such ships which are in fact mini-carriers and will in the future definitely operate JSF-B multi-role fighters.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 15 Jun 2016 18:26

More Photo updates on LCA Tejas FB

Image
Image
Image
Image

Kartik
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 15 Jun 2016 21:47

Beautiful pics..

member_23370
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 15 Jun 2016 22:30

Awesome. Hope to see it flying it IN colors soon.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby sohamn » 15 Jun 2016 23:17

kapilrdave wrote:Apologies in advance if this questions comes off as too naive.

Is it possible to make NLCA STOVL capable? Is the current engine capable of doing that or it requires a whole new one? I understand that there would be serious design changes required for this along with TVC, but if at all we can achieve this in a reasonable time frame, then it might be useful in realizing this strategy.



Its a newbie question buddy. And the answer is no, LCA CANNOT be a STVOL aircraft ever, never ever ever. Not even in the dreams of its designers, and not even in the dreams of silly babu's and IAF leadership. No never. It is just not possible.

Khalsa
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 15 Jun 2016 23:46

Well done Navy, Well done to you.
Ownership Ownership and Ownership....

from
An Explorer's Navy
To
A Fighters Navy
To
A Builders Navy

You certainly show us how its done....

Hats off to the entire Navy

shravanp
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby shravanp » 15 Jun 2016 23:57

N-LCA looks way too hot. Some engineering that is. Especially in third pic (of the 4 ones above).

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby kmkraoind » 16 Jun 2016 08:45

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ @writetake

More shots of #NLCA CCT & night trials from SBTF, Goa. Pic: Rana 1/2 pic.twitter.com/zZ4reF4Tq8


What a shot, it gives trajectory of NLCA on skijump.

Image

kapilrdave
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby kapilrdave » 16 Jun 2016 09:34

sohamn wrote:
kapilrdave wrote:Apologies in advance if this questions comes off as too naive.

Is it possible to make NLCA STOVL capable? Is the current engine capable of doing that or it requires a whole new one? I understand that there would be serious design changes required for this along with TVC, but if at all we can achieve this in a reasonable time frame, then it might be useful in realizing this strategy.



Its a newbie question buddy. And the answer is no, LCA CANNOT be a STVOL aircraft ever, never ever ever. Not even in the dreams of its designers, and not even in the dreams of silly babu's and IAF leadership. No never. It is just not possible.

:oops: Okay. Thanx.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby jahaju » 16 Jun 2016 10:30

In the third pic (of the 4 ones above), NLCA looks like a twin engined a/c.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Gagan » 16 Jun 2016 16:15

If they put two engines on this bird, it will almost be == rafale
Add the uber gold plated avionics on the rafale and it will be completely == rafale, but fully customizable and at a quarter-half of its cost onlee

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby ArmenT » 16 Jun 2016 18:46


shiv
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 16 Jun 2016 19:15

kapilrdave wrote:Apologies in advance if this questions comes off as too naive.

Is it possible to make NLCA STOVL capable?

No.

Here is a short video of the sorts of designs that have been tried and many of which failed and a few succeeded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDE6fuJbKz0

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby prahaar » 16 Jun 2016 19:29

Shivji, very nice video, revived old memories. In my young days, I used to visit our school library for an expensive set of "Reference books" which could only be read in the library - so read them by missing play time in "recess". I forget the name of the encyclopedia series, but it was not Indian. I used to be amazed looking at the pictures of the prototypes in this video :-).

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 17 Jun 2016 09:14

A question for the questioners - What is the advantage of a Vertical Takeoff planes? I can understand short landings. And short takeoffs. Why vertical takeoffs?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Sid » 17 Jun 2016 09:51

To bypass runway denial activities by enemy. runways/air defences are the first victim usually.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Will » 17 Jun 2016 12:08

Is the MK-2 still on? Its only the MK-2 that will enter IN service.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 17 Jun 2016 13:35

kmkraoind wrote:What a shot, it gives trajectory of NLCA on skijump.

Image


Fantastic image. One of the best ever.

Will wrote:Is the MK-2 still on? Its only the MK-2 that will enter IN service.

MK2 for IAF is slightly different than the NLCA "MK2". As such they are two different projects - with lot of commonalities of coarse. If I am correct the NLCA will be slightly longer as well than proposed IAF MK2 which itself is longer than the MK1/MK1A.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 17 Jun 2016 13:49

prahaar wrote:Shivji, very nice video, revived old memories. In my young days, I used to visit our school library for an expensive set of "Reference books" which could only be read in the library - so read them by missing play time in "recess". I forget the name of the encyclopedia series, but it was not Indian. I used to be amazed looking at the pictures of the prototypes in this video :-).

I know - I used to visit the local British Library - which was called "British Council Library" back then and scour though any issues of "Flight" magazine I could find

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 17 Jun 2016 17:19

perhaps we could have three jet engines for vtol. two on the wings that can rotate (both the wings and the engine) from 0-90* and one on the rear central dorsal end. a dual rudder may be mounted on the tails. might look weird. worth the investments? we might as well create a bigO aircraft carrier for that money for accommodating all kinds of STOL.
.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 17 Jun 2016 17:41

SaiK wrote:perhaps we could have three jet engines for vtol. two on the wings that can rotate (both the wings and the engine) from 0-90* and one on the rear central dorsal end. a dual rudder may be mounted on the tails. might look weird. worth the investments? we might as well create a bigO aircraft carrier for that money for accommodating all kinds of STOL.
.


Too much load on the wing pivots - load of entire wing with the weapons load and engine passed on to a single pivot structure - might be ok for TO/Landing but under high G manoeuvres?? That would be one hell of a piece of an engineering if someone can make it work. Rotating wings will necessitate high wing structure - else very tall LG needed. High wing - restrictions on manoeuvrability.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 Jun 2016 18:59

ACM Raha first flight in the Tejas in goa


Kakarat
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 17 Jun 2016 20:36

LCA Naval Prototype (NP-2) - First Night Operations at Goa


ramana
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 Jun 2016 20:39

Indranil, Does Naval LCA have the increased length that LCA Mk2 would have? I know it has the higher thrust engine.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby sankum » 18 Jun 2016 08:46

NLCA mk2 will have lt=14.56m, width=8.9m while LCA mk2 will have lt=13.7m and width of 8.2m.

NLCA mk2 is the priority while LCA mk2 is on backburner.

My estimate for NLCA mk2 will be MTOW of 16 to 17T while it is 15T for LCA mk2.

It will be better if IAF buys Lighter IAF version of NLCA mk2 as next 120nos single engine after 120nos LCA mk1A.

My guess for NLCA mk2 will be empty weight 7.7T, internal fuel=3.5T clean weight=12T and payload of 4 to 5T resulting in MTOW of 16 to 17T.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 18 Jun 2016 08:54

True.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2016 01:40

sankum, No point of LCA Mk2 if naval LCA is successful. And it looks like it.
So why bother?

Will Naval LCA have all those LRUs relocated for ease of maintenance and reduce package count?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 19 Jun 2016 01:56

^^ I guess that would be the plan now. A lot has changed after MP convinced IAF/HAL/ADA to make MK1A. Makes sense to just strip down NLCA to make MK2 for IAF. If all the MK1A stuff will go in NLCA as well, and with added features such as longer fuselage, new engine etc - IAF will be more than happy with it if they are happy with MK1A already.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby nirav » 19 Jun 2016 02:19

ramana wrote:Indranil, Does Naval LCA have the increased length that LCA Mk2 would have? I know it has the higher thrust engine.


Is this for sure ?
I was under the impression that it uses the F404
The initial 414s were for the Navy MK2 on which AF too had piggybacked on..

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 19 Jun 2016 10:13

Higher thrust, Higher load/larger range. I think given carrier plans IN will want that mk2.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Will » 19 Jun 2016 15:26

The NLCA needs the extra thrust and range. The MK1 has thrust issues at sea level. The MK2 was a Naval requirement that the IAF jumped onto.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby geeth » 26 Jun 2016 18:55

*Notice on walls of pilot changing room in Aircraft Carrier*.

" The three best things in life are Good Landing, a Good Orgasm and a Good Bowel Movement. One of the few opportunities in life when you get to experience all three at same time is a Night Landing on an aircraft carrier."

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 15 Aug 2016 23:53

Glad to see the history in NLCA page is retained. Including its photos.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 14 Sep 2016 10:13

Cross-posting from the LCA thread:
Dennis wrote:To complement the excellent technical inputs from Indranilroy and JayS related to the LEVCONs, here's a couple of pics of the LEVCONs on the machine itself, and the team that flies and tests them.

Image

Image

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 26 Sep 2016 02:23

NP1 with the centerline fuel tank

Posted on the LCA page on FB
The LCA Naval Prototype - 1 (NP-1): Expanding the Operational Limit with Center Line Drop Tanks

Image

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby jahaju » 26 Sep 2016 19:40

Was there a photo of the NLCA test rig for lifting the aircraft a few feet into the air and then droping it ?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby arunsrinivasan » 05 Nov 2016 13:49

Any updates on Naval MK2?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 05 Nov 2016 21:37

Still developing. No where close to flight testing.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JTull » 05 Nov 2016 22:01

Rakesh wrote:Still developing. No where close to flight testing.


C'mon Rakesh. Is it even in fabrication? I'd be very surprised, if it is.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 05 Nov 2016 22:08

According to the Tejas FB page they are concentrating on the Navy MK1 currently due to limited resources and their immediate concern is arrested recovery tests.

I personally think LCA Navy Mk1 would purely be a experimental program with maximum few Trainers being built for service and it will take minimum 3 to 4 years for LCA Navy Mk2 prototype to start flying


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