Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

chola · Post by **chola** » 20 Feb 2019 22:12

FOC! We finally scaled the peak, boys.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 20 Feb 2019 22:22

Karan M wrote:Rakesh, the Tejas cannot afford any major incident in public view, given the vested interests that will capitalize on it. Until the aircraft is in service in the hundreds and literally too big to fail and irreplaceable without breaking the bank, we should not give it to the Surya Kirans as neither the Indian public nor the establishment has the maturity to deal with any Tejas incident.

Folks like you, JayS, IR, Shiv should drive the narrative and push out the message that in the world of modern aircraft, rocketry, missiles etc, failures are integral part of the development cycle.

But things have changed haven't they? I am sure I am not the only one who have sensed the difference in perception in the last few years....more and more people are of the view that the various dev teams will fix issues.
We have come a long way since "Automatic Sea Landing Vehicle" if folks recall.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 20 Feb 2019 23:16

Neela wrote:
Karan M wrote:Rakesh, the Tejas cannot afford any major incident in public view, given the vested interests that will capitalize on it. Until the aircraft is in service in the hundreds and literally too big to fail and irreplaceable without breaking the bank, we should not give it to the Surya Kirans as neither the Indian public nor the establishment has the maturity to deal with any Tejas incident.
Folks like you, JayS, IR, Shiv should drive the narrative and push out the message that in the world of modern aircraft, rocketry, missiles etc, failures are integral part of the development cycle.

But things have changed haven't they? I am sure I am not the only one who have sensed the difference in perception in the last few years....more and more people are of the view that the various dev teams will fix issues.
We have come a long way since "Automatic Sea Landing Vehicle" if folks recall.

That brought back memories. Seems a different lifetime.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 20 Feb 2019 23:37

RED LETTER DAY!!!!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Feb 2019 00:41

Indranil, can I add FOC date to first page now?

@ KaranM: Thank you for your reply on the Tejas Sport. Fanciful thinking on my part. Sorry.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Feb 2019 00:42

Indranil, I made the change. Please check. Thank You.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Feb 2019 01:02

For the naysayers who whined and said Tejas will never come, here are the dates from page 1 of this thread to put things in perspective......

First Flight
• TD-1: 04 January 2001

Initial Operational Clearance
• IOC-I: June 2010 (9.5 years from first flight)
• IOC-II: Issued on 20 December 2013 (3.5 years from IOC-I)
• IOC-II: Clearance on 17 January 2015 (2.1 years from IOC-II Issuance)

Final Operational Clearance
• FOC-I: Issued on 04 January 2019 (4 years from IOC-II Issuance)
• FOC-I: Clearance on 20 February 2019 (1.5 months from FOC-I Issuance)

ADA, HAL, the IAF and the GoI did it. Kudos to All! Jai Hind!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Feb 2019 01:07

Another statistic for BRF's import lobby (who ridiculed Tejas production). Again from Page 1 of this thread.

Year-Over-Year Tejas Production

• 2015-16: One
• 2016: Two
• 2017: Three
• 2018: Six
• 2019: Eight [Projected]
• 2020: Sixteen [Vision]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2019 01:26

Indranil,

So gun firing is complete ?

I think its needed for ground attack only.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Feb 2019 01:50

No. Gun firing has been put off for now. Problem is not with the aircraft. IAF and ADA are not worried.

dkhare · Post by **dkhare** » 21 Feb 2019 01:51

ramana wrote:Indranil,

So gun firing is complete ?

I think its needed for ground attack only.

One would think for FOC to be certified, the gun firing would be completed too, but I vaguely recall it was postponed for a later FOC-2 or something. Awesome news if it too has been certified.

In my very humble opinion, the gun would be required more for WVR air combat rather than strafing runs against ground targets. In today's AAA & MANPAD infested battlefield, that would/should be left to dedicated ground attack aircraft like the MiG 27, with its bigger GSH-6-30 cannon and titanium armour tub for pilot protection.

But once it's cleared for use, I guess it would give more flexibility to the IAF to further increase it's mission profile, especially if a target of opportunity presented itself in a low risk, sanitized environment...

naird · Post by **naird** » 21 Feb 2019 02:15

1500 sorties completed by 45. Roughly translates to more or less 1000 hours of flying time in Tejas over 2 years. I do not have a yardstick in terms of hours that are usually put on a airframe in IAF - maybe knowledgeable members can shed some light on this.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 21 Feb 2019 02:44

Congratulations! A day all Indians should be proud of!

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 Feb 2019 03:10

Rakesh wrote:For the naysayers who whined and said Tejas will never come, here are the dates from page 1 of this thread to put things in perspective......

First Flight
• TD-1: 04 January 2001

Initial Operational Clearance
• IOC-I: June 2010 (9.5 years from first flight)
• IOC-II: Issued on 20 December 2013 (3.5 years from IOC-I)
• IOC-II: Clearance on 17 January 2015 (2.1 years from IOC-II Issuance)

Final Operational Clearance
• FOC-I: Issued on 04 January 2019 (4 years from IOC-II Issuance)
• FOC-I: Clearance on 20 February 2019 (1.5 months from FOC-I Issuance)

ADA, HAL, the IAF and the GoI did it. Kudos to All! Jai Hind!

Now Admiral, how many of us who were on BR (me included) back in 2001 who can say they did not naysay at least once in those 18 years? lol

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2019 03:25

dkhare · Post by **dkhare** » 21 Feb 2019 04:04

Me too.

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 Feb 2019 04:48

^^^ Your faith and patience were way beyond mine, Gurus.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Feb 2019 04:57

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1098332296044638209

Work on integrating the Kaveri low-bypass turbofan with a LCA test vehicle is underway. Expect demonstration flights to take place in the near
future. But these will be for demonstration purposes only.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 21 Feb 2019 06:46

Great News on LCA and even greater on Kaveri. Will 2019 be India's year of renaissance?

Surav Jha twitter feed has a lot of laddos this past few days apart from the above. Sample these

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1098332878507626496 ---> At long last @DRDO_India's Hypersonic Technlogy Demonstrator Vehicle (HSTDV) has been cleared for flight trials. The first trial is expected to take place within a few months.

And this...

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1097425963019726848 ---> More heartening news from the LRDE talk at #aeroindiaseminar The aesa radar, on a executive jet, is more or less done with A2A testing within 10%of performance expectations.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Feb 2019 07:03

Jayaram, your post on the AEW has been moved to the Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion thread. Thank You.

Folks, please no more discussion on Kaveri in this thread. All Kaveri discussion moved to the Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion thread.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 21 Feb 2019 07:49

Sorry about that and thank you Rakesh.

disha · Post by **disha** » 21 Feb 2019 08:34

chola wrote: Now Admiral, how many of us who were on BR (me included) back in 2001 who can say they did not naysay at least once in those 18 years? lol

Me too.

I have been following LCA since the day when Hon Ex PM Sri Deve Gowda sanctioned Rs 400 crore for LCA (early 90s)

Infact in 2001 to whomsoever who listened, I did say LCA will take a decade or two & maybe operational in 2015 (wrong by 3-4 years

)

Personally I love NLCA though. Call me biased.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 21 Feb 2019 08:47

A proud day for India. Congratulations Team India!

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 21 Feb 2019 09:18

chola wrote: Now Admiral, how many of us who were on BR (me included) back in 2001 who can say they did not naysay at least once in those 18 years? lol

I was banned once for criticizing the LCA pace and “waste of money”! Then once Nitin had set my brains right, I was asked to cool off my pro LCA and anti import self! What goes around....

But I’m very proud of the LCA. Watching it go through the paces and come out as a success makes me proud as if it were my son even though I had nothing to do with it. Now all I want is 500 LCAs in service.

News about the Kaveri is the single biggest news for Indian Aviation. Underpowered or not, if the Kaveri works, it will see flight. God speed!!

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 21 Feb 2019 10:12

Rakesh wrote:For the naysayers who whined and said Tejas will never come, here are the dates from page 1 of this thread to put things in perspective......

First Flight
• TD-1: 04 January 2001

Initial Operational Clearance
• IOC-I: June 2010 (9.5 years from first flight)
• IOC-II: Issued on 20 December 2013 (3.5 years from IOC-I)
• IOC-II: Clearance on 17 January 2015 (2.1 years from IOC-II Issuance)

Final Operational Clearance
• FOC-I: Issued on 04 January 2019 (4 years from IOC-II Issuance)
• FOC-I: Clearance on 20 February 2019 (1.5 months from FOC-I Issuance)

ADA, HAL, the IAF and the GoI did it. Kudos to All! Jai Hind!

The dates are not correct.

IOC-I 10 Jan 2011 http://pibmumbai.gov.in/scripts/detail. ... 2013PR2385
17 January 2015 first Series Production aircraft were handed over to IAF
There is nothing called clearance.
20-2-2019 can be considered the official FOC date though CEMILAC had given approval on 28-12-2018

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Feb 2019 10:19

Rakesh wrote:Another statistic for BRF's import lobby (who ridiculed Tejas production). Again from Page 1 of this thread.

Year-Over-Year Tejas Production

• 2015-16: One
• 2016: Two
• 2017: Three
• 2018: Six
• 2019: Eight [Projected]
• 2020: Sixteen [Vision]

We really need to hit the production capacity of Fort Worth's LM plant. Even half will be great.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 21 Feb 2019 10:59

chola wrote:
Now Admiral, how many of us who were on BR (me included) back in 2001 who can say they did not naysay at least once in those 18 years? lol

I didn't. Not once. Always believed that this program was too important for India to abandon at any stage. Feeling so good to see the FOC granted with Release to Service and the Air Chief Marshal's words of praise for how the Tejas has performed in service. It has validated all the years that many of us steadfastly supported the program, fighting with all sorts of trolls on various fora.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 21 Feb 2019 11:41

chola wrote:
Now Admiral, how many of us who were on BR (me included) back in 2001 who can say they did not naysay at least once in those 18 years? lol

Me too
Infact it was reading about LCA in the newspaper even before 2001 introduced me to BR after being a guest reader for many years I finally joined in 2005
Not only Tejas but any Indigenous development

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 21 Feb 2019 11:44

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 6886259712

Dir Engg and R&D Arup Chatterjee says dev work for Mk.1A is underway. At the moment internally funded, will take around 3 years to complete. First flight 2022. Hoping to deliver between 16-24 per year.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 9209034752

Back to Mk.1A — it will be run as a mod/upgrade project, not new dev. So existing AC will be used to test changes, and series production will start around one year after 2022 first flight (2023-2024). At 16 per year rate, final deliveries will be 2029

So the 40 MkI deliveries will continue till 23-24 and might include the 10 trainers from the 83 and till then I dont see a increase in production beyond 8 per year

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 21 Feb 2019 12:04

^^ so with Mk1A production by 2023 and Mk2/MWF PV by end of 2023. It will indeed be a miracle if MWF FOC happens by 2026 (seems highly unlikely to me)

then simultaneous production of MWF and Mk1A post 2026

no updates on timelines of NLCA mk2. Ample time to master stealth for AMCA, a long road ahead.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 21 Feb 2019 12:20

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 6886259712
Dir Engg and R&D Arup Chatterjee says dev work for Mk.1A is underway. At the moment internally funded, will take around 3 years to complete. First flight 2022. Hoping to deliver between 16-24 per year.
https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 9209034752
Back to Mk.1A — it will be run as a mod/upgrade project, not new dev. So existing AC will be used to test changes, and series production will start around one year after 2022 first flight (2023-2024). At 16 per year rate, final deliveries will be 2029
So the 40 MkI deliveries will continue till 23-24 and might include the 10 trainers from the 83 and till then I dont see a increase in production beyond 8 per year

Just as I suspected, they will use existing prototypes and modify them to test the Mk1A changes. Makes a lot of sense. They don't have to wait till a specific Mk1A prototype "green" aircraft is built, and the existing line can continue to churn out MK1s for the services.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Feb 2019 12:24

I was the lone warrior then fighting for Tejas. Now I read so many "me"s and me-toos.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 21 Feb 2019 12:25

BTW, there is confirmation that No.18 Squadron 'Flying Bullets' will be next Tejas squadron. With all FOC Mk1 single seaters SP-21 to SP-36 to be delivered by FY 2019-2020. Which means HAL should attain the 16 a/c per year rate of production in the coming fiscal year.

From Vayu Aerospace Review- open the image in a new window and you'll see the text -

"With CEMILAC issuing interim clearance for the FOC standard LCA on 31 December 2018, HAL Bangalore Complex have begun structural assembly of major modules of front, center and rear fuselage of the LCA Series Production aircraft SP-21. First flight of this aircraft is planned for October 2019, with the balance 15 aircraft to be delivered in the FY 2019-2020. These will equip the IAF's No.18 Squadron, the second formation to receive the Tejas."

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 21 Feb 2019 12:29

No.18 Squadron 'Flying Bullets' will be next Tejas squadron

Only squadron in IAF to have received the PVC.

Primary roles, Air defence and ground attack.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 21 Feb 2019 12:41

The Tejas on display at the Air show has a mockup of Brahmos NG on a wing pod. Can anyone post a pic here ?
(It's there on twitter but i couldn't see if posted in the thread)

What a heavy hitter our little fighter is turning out to be!

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 21 Feb 2019 12:44

It has already been posted, in in the previous page
Anyway newer ones from twitter

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 21 Feb 2019 12:50

^ Oh. I was checking the Aero thread and somehow missed it here. Thanks for the above pics. I can shamelessly ogle. By the heavens this fighter really punches well above it's weight class.

PS: just love the 2nd pic. It seems to be straining to be unleashed.. look at how the tarp is torn near the tyres.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2019 12:56

When does FY 2019-2020 start and end?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 12:58

Noticed the tweet from Livefest, while handing over FOC documents it was stated IAF will have over 40 of this type, given MK1A will arrive only in 2022, has the FOC standard been upped from 20 to 40, so from 2019-22 HAL will produce 40 FOC+8 trainers, i.e 48 aircraft?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 13:00

ramana wrote:When does FY 2019-2020 start and end?

1April 2019 to 31 March 2020 as with all Financial years with all Government enterprises and most commercial enterprises in India, similarly for Tax ,budgets etc.