Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Aditya_V
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Feb 2019 13:00

ramana wrote:When does FY 2019-2020 start and end?


1April 2019 to 31 March 2020 as with all Financial years with all Government enterprises and most commercial enterprises in India, similarly for Tax ,budgets etc.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kakarat » 21 Feb 2019 13:01

Aditya_V wrote:Noticed the tweet from Livefest, while handing over FOC documents it was stated IAF will have over 40 of this type, given MK1A will arrive only in 2022, has the FOC standard been upped from 20 to 40, so from 2019-22 HAL will produce 40 FOC+8 trainers, i.e 48 aircraft?


The initial IOC will be upgraded to FOC and there is a possibility of the 10 trainers which is a part of the 83 will also be FOC

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Feb 2019 13:03

If Mk1A is to come in 2022, does that mean target for 3 years is 24 aircraft, then why talk of producing 16 aircraft per year, I guess 8 of Naval LCA will also be produced. So thats 32 aircraft, leaving a 1 year production gap. Now that we have something that works its better to ramp up numbers which we need.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2019 13:07

Aditya_V wrote:
ramana wrote:When does FY 2019-2020 start and end?


1April 2019 to 31 March 2020 as with all Financial years with all Government enterprises and most commercial enterprises in India, similarly for Tax ,budgets etc.


So first aircraft delivery will be October 2019 and remaining 15 by March 2020? Probable but not plausible.

Can some one create an XLS sheet with FY19-20 months at top row and the SP 21 thru SP 36 in the left most column. And show the waterfall chart with average build time? Basically a production chart.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby gaurav.p » 21 Feb 2019 13:19

Aditya_V wrote:I guess 8 of Naval LCA will also be produced.


Wasn't Naval LCA just for tech demonstration?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Feb 2019 13:25

I thought Navy will acquire 8 Tejas MK 1's

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Cain Marko » 21 Feb 2019 13:34

I fully expect the iaf to order more than a mere 40 of this type. Esp. If mk1a gets delayed. If not, I expect them to order a bunch more mk1a than the meagre 83 until the Monday Wednesday Friday gets ready for production.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Singha » 21 Feb 2019 13:35

per livefist tweet, HAL expects the order for 83 in 2 months. the MOD finance dept is working on the file.

so unless there is regime change/flower revolution in GE, 83 is inside the bag.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby yensoy » 21 Feb 2019 13:45

Can't the contract be written in a manner wherein as many of the current version are delivered till the next version is certified, at which point future deliveries will be of the next version? How hard is it? This gives HAL an incentive to push out planes (so costs associated with design changes are avoided and mass procurement/production benefits), and it gives IAF an incentive to speed up the approval process (so it has newer versions in larger numbers). Some adjustment may also be factored in so we have round number of squadrons of certain version; and components that are ordered are used without wastage.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby sahay » 21 Feb 2019 13:48

Kakarat wrote:The initial IOC will be upgraded to FOC and there is a possibility of the 10 trainers which is a part of the 83 will also be FOC

Anantha Krishnan had reported that all 18 trainers will be of the same configuration, Mk 1. There won't be a Mk 1A trainer.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Feb 2019 13:51

So we can say the plan is to manufacture before MK1A arrives in 2022
1) Sp 21 to 36- 16 FOC single seats fighters
2) 18 FOC trainers
3) 8 LCA Navy Mk1's
42 aircraft over the next 3 years

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby uskumar » 21 Feb 2019 14:02


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Feb 2019 14:05

uskumar wrote:Sorry if this was posted before
HAL plans to give 16 Tejas fighter aircraft by year-end


Quote from this article

As partner in co-developing and manufacturing the combat fighter, the city-based defence behemoth has already delivered to the IAF 16 Tejas in the Initial Operation Clearance (IOC) configuration.



When did Sp 15 and Sp 16 fly?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 21 Feb 2019 14:23

ramana ji, always on april fools day FY begins in bharat

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 21 Feb 2019 14:48

I cannot believe HAL is saying MK1A first flight is 2022!

What is the point of MK1A when MK2 is expected to fly in 2023? There is a major gap in production between MK1A number and MK2 production start. HAL is either geniuely tech challenged or is trying to force IAF in to more FOC numbers. MK1A Production end date tallies nicely with expected MK2 production start i.e. 2029.

So the scenario is:
IAF wants only 20 IOC. No delivery from April to Oct 19
Wants only 20 FOC, no delivery b/w FOC and MK1A, which could be 2-3 years
There could also be gap b/w MK1A delivery and MK2.

And everyone is screaming fighter shortage. In the next 10 years HAL has order and will give around 120 LCA.

And we talk about 16 per year, 24 per year....

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Khalsa » 21 Feb 2019 15:08

SaiK wrote:ramana ji, always on april fools day FY begins in bharat


its quite common around the commonwealth countries actually.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby rohitvats » 21 Feb 2019 15:17

I had vowed to not post on BRF but on this momentous occasion of Tejas achieving FOC, I'm making a temporary exception. Somethings are beyond individual likes and dislikes. And this is too big a occasion and I know, BRF is the only place where I can share my happiness over it.

Congratulations to all scientists, engineers, air-warriors, bureaucrats, faceless & nameless people in the background, for making this happen. You've achieved the impossible against tremendous odds. My heartfelt thanks to each one of you.

Also, BRF deserves a special appreciation for being 'THE' platform which has always tried to fight naysayers and hearsay about the Tejas program with proper analysis and in-depth information. The Tejas thread(s) on BRF remains 'THE' source covering every nitty-gritty about the Tejas program and the fighter itself. When everything was stacked against Tejas, apart from the team actually working on the program, BRF community was the other entity standing rock-solid behind it.

God knows I've been a critic of the program (not the jet) and we've had our heated moments here. But ultimately, we're all on the same side - India. And Tejas achieving FOC means OUR side is winning.

A special thanks need to made to Karan M - one person 'Wikipedia' on the Tejas program, who's shared in-depth analysis and data here to enrich all of us and other non-BRF readers. I know, he's difficult to get along at times ( :P :mrgreen: :P ) but I guess we all can give him that leeway for his contribution.

Also - Indanil, for doing a fabulous job with his contributions and managing this thread.

There are a lot more who've made Tejas thread on BRF what it is; as someone who isn't the brightest crayon in the pack when it comes to aviation, I thank each one of you for sharing your knowledge. People like me have learnt a lot from you.

And I guess, the news of Tejas FOC becomes more sweet when you couple it with news of Arjun MK1A getting approval - that closes the loop for me!

Wish Tejas happy skies and hope to see more of them in IAF colors soon.

My best wishes to BRF and everyone here.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Feb 2019 15:23

Missed you sir.
I hope you are back for a bit as there are few things that I would definitely like to discuss - esp re the infantry reorgnisaiton.
We have lost a few good people here.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Feb 2019 15:31

Fish market aka Indian media ask the COAS about his flight in the LCA Tejas
https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... us-fighter

"For me, the flight in the LCA was a wonderful experience. It was an experience of a lifetime. From whatever I could witness, the avionics of the aircraft is very good, I could also see the manner in which the pilot was targeting was very good even in radar mode or other modes. I think it is a wonderful aircraft and if this gets added to the inventory, I am sure it will increase the strength of our air power. I am very thankful to Air Vice Marshal Tiwari who made this happen for me. We did a little bit of backing but we did not fly a loop. All the three security forces work together."


The Indian Air Force recently placed an order of 83 advanced FOC aircraft of the LCA Tejas. Speaking about the order and the air force's future plan, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa said: "Not only will we have to induct the LCA Tejas MK II, we will, in the days ahead, replace the Jaguar, Mirage and MiG 29 fighter jets." The air chief added that "After that we will go ahead with the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft."

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 21 Feb 2019 15:36

rohitvats wrote:I had vowed to not post on BRF
..welcome back...your posts during "BRF tank wars" are still a pleasure to read. Hope we get to see you again!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 21 Feb 2019 15:38

Is the IA Chief planning a squadron of "CAS" LCA for Army Aviation? :D

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Feb 2019 15:42

Rohitvats welcome back. I am very easy to get along with now, pinkie promise. :(( :((

Now, please make a temporary exception to that temporary exception and stick along. You need to be here, for obvious reasons & head over to the Pulwama thread stat (after, of course, taking precautionary measures like BP meds. What? You thought escaping BRF was that easy?) :)

And yes, congrats to you too on the LCA, we all know how much you supported it and fought for it (and Arjun MK1A - dont forget that, it too has orders and Mk2 is a new program!!)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Feb 2019 15:47

Kartik wrote:
chola wrote:
Now Admiral, how many of us who were on BR (me included) back in 2001 who can say they did not naysay at least once in those 18 years? lol


I didn't. Not once. Always believed that this program was too important for India to abandon at any stage. Feeling so good to see the FOC granted with Release to Service and the Air Chief Marshal's words of praise for how the Tejas has performed in service. It has validated all the years that many of us steadfastly supported the program, fighting with all sorts of trolls on various fora.


I can vouch for that. It was not easy to take on TSP/PRC and even other trolls on multiple fora but you and Harry always stood up for it, and you continue to do so and long may you continue!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Feb 2019 15:53

Brahmos-NG on the LCA. I remember Ramana saar snippety snipping Cybaru and me, for going LOL when a guy asked whether LCA could carry a Brahmos. Cy's answer which I still think is a classic was "the Brahmos can carry a LCA". :lol:

Looks like the joke's on us now. :eek:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Feb 2019 15:54

Vivek K wrote:But I’m very proud of the LCA. Watching it go through the paces and come out as a success makes me proud as if it were my son even though I had nothing to do with it. Now all I want is 500 LCAs in service. News about the Kaveri is the single biggest news for Indian Aviation. Underpowered or not, if the Kaveri works, it will see flight. God speed!!


Vivek K, few can ever match the passion with which you have defended and supported indigenous programs, a red letter day and congratulations to you too.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karthik S » 21 Feb 2019 16:06

Kartik wrote:I didn't. Not once. Always believed that this program was too important for India to abandon at any stage. Feeling so good to see the FOC granted with Release to Service and the Air Chief Marshal's words of praise for how the Tejas has performed in service. It has validated all the years that many of us steadfastly supported the program, fighting with all sorts of trolls on various fora.


Kartik, were you in "IAF Bharatiya Vayu Sena Club" group in Orkut? If so, recall you giving back to pakis on Tejas vs JF 17 arguments.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby pankaj » 21 Feb 2019 16:18

rohitvats wrote:I had vowed to not post on BRF but on this momentous occasion of Tejas achieving FOC, I'm making a temporary exception.


Sir Welcome back , you need to end this self imposed Vanvas
Last edited by JayS on 21 Feb 2019 21:29, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited for proper quoting

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Feb 2019 16:49

A true son of Mother India who finally made the LCA program see the light of the day.

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby VickyAvinash » 21 Feb 2019 17:37

rohitvats wrote:I had vowed to not post on BRF but on this momentous occasion of Tejas achieving FOC, I'm making a temporary exception. Somethings are beyond individual likes and dislikes. And this is too big a occasion and I know, BRF is the only place where I can share my happiness over it

My best wishes to BRF and everyone here.


Welcome back rohitvats

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Barath » 21 Feb 2019 19:42

naird wrote:1500 sorties completed by 45. Roughly translates to more or less 1000 hours of flying time in Tejas over 2 years. I do not have a yardstick in terms of hours that are usually put on a airframe in IAF - maybe knowledgeable members can shed some light on this.


Mr Nair, Su MKI has a service life of 6000 flying hours but needs an overhaul after 1500 hours or 14 years, whichever comes first https://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/first-sukhoi-30-overhauled-at-nashik-highlights-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html. That 6000 hrs can be easily spread over 20-30+ years..

The aircraft service life and overhaul intervals depend upon the aircraft manufacturer and generation, -earlier soviet airframes like Mig 27,29 etc often had less (eg 3000 hrs,), while contemporary western airframes had greater.http://www.mirage-jet.com/AIRFRAME/MAINTE_1/mainte_1.htm And sometimes service life extension programs are possible.

So I can't say "usual"

I'm not too sure what the projected service life of Tejas is (Maybe Karan M or other oldie can chip in ?) I've vague memories of 20-40 years, but I think sometimes early prototypes and limited rate production planes can retire early as manufacturing processes might not be fully mature. In any case, I don't expect IAF will follow any unsafe practices here ...I'm sure they will also be taking this chance to see how their aging & reliability tests and analysis are going...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2019 20:42

tsarkar wrote:The dates are not correct.

IOC-I 10 Jan 2011 http://pibmumbai.gov.in/scripts/detail. ... 2013PR2385
17 January 2015 first Series Production aircraft were handed over to IAF
There is nothing called clearance.
20-2-2019 can be considered the official FOC date though CEMILAC had given approval on 28-12-2018

Thank you tsarkar-ji. I pulled these dates out of wiki. I will make the change.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 21 Feb 2019 21:27

rohitvats, there are some connections you can't throw away. like genetics! :) we indics have it, and it runs in many families (BRF being one).

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2019 22:16

rohitvats wrote:I had vowed to not post on BRF but on this momentous occasion of Tejas achieving FOC, I'm making a temporary exception.

Welcome back! :)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Haridas » 21 Feb 2019 23:09

Karan M wrote:A true son of Mother India who finally made the LCA program see the light of the day.

Image

Absolutely true. My salute to former Defense Minister Mohan Parrikar for cleaning up the lutyen cob web to hang LCA by non-funding & mlignant media campaigns.

Jai Hind saar.

Rohit: please join back your company of Bharat patriots.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 22 Feb 2019 01:25

ramana wrote:
So first aircraft delivery will be October 2019 and remaining 15 by March 2020? Probable but not plausible.

Can some one create an XLS sheet with FY19-20 months at top row and the SP 21 thru SP 36 in the left most column. And show the waterfall chart with average build time? Basically a production chart.


SP-21 to SP-23 are already on the assembly line from what I gather. Average build time was given as 6 months as far as I can recall, once parts are on the assembly line. There was a lot of discussion around the build time on this thread many months ago.

If HAL gets all the parts to assemble the modules in time, to match the 16 a/c per year rate, they'll most likely meet the target. The bigger issue is with getting those parts production scaled up and with the private players' fuselage and wing modules supposed to come in this year, I believe it can be done. There is a lot of pressure on HAL to perform and deliver on its commitments. If they fail to deliver all 16 by March 2020, there must be other issues that may not necessarily be in their hands.

If they succeed, HAL's Test Pilots will have their hands full from October to March with non-stop testing.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 22 Feb 2019 01:29

Karthik S wrote:
Kartik wrote:I didn't. Not once. Always believed that this program was too important for India to abandon at any stage. Feeling so good to see the FOC granted with Release to Service and the Air Chief Marshal's words of praise for how the Tejas has performed in service. It has validated all the years that many of us steadfastly supported the program, fighting with all sorts of trolls on various fora.


Kartik, were you in "IAF Bharatiya Vayu Sena Club" group in Orkut? If so, recall you giving back to pakis on Tejas vs JF 17 arguments.


Yup, that was eons ago! I used to get into major arguments with a lot of folks on different fora. More mellow nowadays and get a lot less time to read or post online.

Tejas has come a long way. A very long way from the days when there was a lot of negativity around the program, thanks in large part to the negative media coverage that the program always garnered.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 22 Feb 2019 01:40

rohitvats wrote:I had vowed to not post on BRF but on this momentous occasion of Tejas achieving FOC, I'm making a temporary exception.
..
My best wishes to BRF and everyone here.


Dude, you had better come back. BRF is what it is because of people like you who knew so much about programs that other laypersons could be educated. As you said it, what matters most to most of us here is that India progresses and her defence stays strong. So while opinions may differ, for most of us, our heart is in the right place. And there is no place on the internet where you can share your happiness on progress made in our defence industry or our Armed forces, like BRF.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ManuJ » 22 Feb 2019 01:51

Really heartening news coming out of Aero India.
LCA is one of the biggest fighter programs in the world now, in terms of projected numbers and planned developments.
Sometimes crazy dreams do come true.

I am amazed and even a little apprehensive by the confidence shown by ADA in announcing two very divergent MK2 programs for the IAF and the Navy, with very little margins at that.
Good luck to them.
It's apparent that Mk1A will be seen in large numbers, greater than the 83 currently projected, as Mk2 / MWF will not have a short gestation period.

Thanks to BRF and its learned contributors over the last 20 years.
Missing Harry today, but I know his soul will be at peace with all the indigenous efforts bearing fruit.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby chaitanya » 22 Feb 2019 02:42

Would like to share my joy on the FOC news as well... I learned about the LCA after its first flight from a newspaper photograph. I was a kid, and was amazed that India can build fighter jets.... so i did what every good BRFite does (although I didnt know it then) and started googling :lol: and came across this little site. How it changed my view on things! It is crazy what looking at a single photograph can do.

So very happy to see this FOC. It feels like the completion of a long journey of learning for me as well! Kudos to everyone in the program who made this happen, and thanks to all the gurus on BRF who have inadvertently help educate this kid.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Shekhar Singh » 22 Feb 2019 05:59

Indranil wrote:On Mk1, I came to know of something yesterday which made my lungi flutter quite a lot. I wanted to share it with you, but I was told to hold back a little longer till the TPs can explore that part a bit more. Will let you know as soon as I know. Will make all of you very happy. And then IDRW can go write an exclusive about it :P.

The ferry range of Mk1 without refueling was over 2000 kms with three tanks. With two tanks, they used to fly nonstop from Bangalore to Jodhpur with 500 kgs of fuel left in the tank. I will leave it to you to imagine the range when it is refueled.

FOC is very close now. They are going for the last set of flight test for validating the latest CLAW, avionics and weapon profile. They can finish this in about a month and feel comfortable of clearing the tests. Of no NEW demands come, FOC seems likely by year-end or therabouts.

SP-11 is getting close to get to the air SP-12 and 13 in equipping phase. They should be able to deliver Sp-16 by March of next year.


We are waiting Sir! We too want to flutter our lunges.


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