New Chetan Helicopter: News & Discussion

Katare
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Post by Katare »

What if we have a fat/big pilot? Payload goes to zero? Than they must have a weight limit for pilots like horse jockeys? :D 20-30 Kg just doesn't make any sense to me whatever be the altitude. :roll:
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Post by Abhisham »

Katare if you even reference back to BR you would find on the following page
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircr ... index.html

LOH was supposed to have a 200kg payload capacity, which was itself 3 times more than cheetah at 18,000 feet. In siachen they need to fly higher at times. Therefore the re-engineered cheetah's is basically to elongate the service life as well as provide extra thrust to carry out present duties more efficiently.
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Post by chola »

Fighter pilots and tank crews have always been subjected to body size limits.
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Post by A Nath »

The Mi-17 which can't operate at these hights but lesser around 14,000+ feet has a decrease in payload capacity up to 75% or from 4 tons to less than a ton.
Looks to me like 30kg is less than 3% of the Chetak's usual capacity. I doubt a 50kg payload is enough to safely evacuate an 80kg casualty. I agree with Katare -- a missing zero sounds likely.
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Post by Jagan »

The HAL Chetan brochure says that the re-engining of the Chetak results in the following:

-An increase in 80km in its previous range of 500km. Current range 580km
-An increase in 45 min duration
-An increase of 90kg normal payload and a 60kg payload at 6000m altitude.
-No change in max altitude which is 6500m

So rest assured, no zeros seem to be missing.
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Post by daulat »

Jagan wrote:The HAL Chetan brochure says that the re-engining of the Chetak results in the following:

-An increase in 80km in its previous range of 500km. Current range 580km
-An increase in 45 min duration
-An increase of 90kg normal payload and a 60kg payload at 6000m altitude.
-No change in max altitude which is 6500m

So rest assured, no zeros seem to be missing.
i think increase is the key word, i seem to recall 200kgs from before
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Post by Jagan »

daulat wrote:-An increase of 90kg normal payload and a 60kg payload at 6000m altitude.
i think increase is the key word, i seem to recall 200kgs from before
The problem is the brochure says that the Chetak can carry zero payload (in addition to the crew) at High altitude before. So now it can carry 60kg instead of 0 kg at high altitude.

It does not give any info on the normal payload but does mention the 'increase' of 90kg.

Cheers.

Jagan
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And if you weigh 61 kilos?

Post by Rien »

I know Indians are supposed to be small and scrawny, but what happens if just one Jawan happens to weigh 61 kilos? How are they going to evacuate him then? Hire jockeys for flying helicopters in India? I mean .. this is ridiculous. At the very least a standard bodyweight of 90 kg should be the design goal.
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Post by Abhisham »

When there is a cas-evac situation only the pilot is manning the helicopter. The weight carrying capacity given at high altitude of which is actually 10-30kg depending on the weather and altitude is comprised of two personell.
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Re: And if you weigh 61 kilos?

Post by Jagan »

Rien wrote:I know Indians are supposed to be small and scrawny, but what happens if just one Jawan happens to weigh 61 kilos? How are they going to evacuate him then? Hire jockeys for flying helicopters in India?
Naw, then they just use the Cheetahs and Cheetals.

I think inspite of the slightlyl improved performance of theChetan over the Chetak, it WONT be deployed at High Altitude. we have enough Cheetahs for that. If anything, the performance of the standard Chetak has been improved in theplains, with inc payload , range and better fuel consumption, and the Chetan will be relegated just for that.
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Post by Rakesh »

Posted by JCage in the 'HAL Performance' thread.


Turbomeca confirms its strong link with India
Bangalore, 9 February 2005

Turbomeca, world leader in helicopter engines, has confirmed its strong link with India, following the signing of three major contracts concerning the Dhruv.

This is the result of a longstanding and successful relationship between Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) and Turbomeca which began back in 1961, when the Turbomeca Artouste engine was first licensed to power the Indian Armed Forces’ Chetak (Alouette) and Cheetah (Lama) fleets.

In February 2003, Turbomeca and HAL signed three major contracts

One contract covers the co-development and co-production of Ardiden 1H (Indian name: Shakti) engines: a large number of Ardiden 1H / Shakti engines are expected to be produced.

11% of the development will be carried by HAL out in India. A first batch of engines will be produced at Turbomeca, France, and progressively most part of the production will be transferred to India.

As a consequence of this close cooperation between HAL and Turbomeca, Indian engineers are now learning all the Shakti production know-how at the site in Bordes, France, Turbomeca's headquarters.

The first rotation is scheduled for September 2005, and the EASA certification is scheduled for December 2006.

The second contract covers the supply of TM 333 2B2 engines, for application on the HAL Dhruv helicopter, and the third contract the repair and overhaul license for the TM 333 2B2.

The hundredth TM 333 2B2, destined to the Dhruv of HAL was delivered in August 2004.

The Dhruv helicopters will be used by the Indian Army Aviation, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guards, depending on the missions to be carried out. The Dhruv is also considered by civilian customers.

Cheetal, Cheetah re-engined with TM 333 2M2

The Cheetal (former Cheetah, equivalent to the Lama, manufactured by HAL), has been re-engined with the TM 333 2M2. The first flight was completed the 1st February 2003 in Bangalore. The replacement of the Artouste engine with a Turbomeca TM 333 2M2 engine improved considerably the light helicopter's performance at altitude and increase its pay load capacity above 5,000 meters. In-flight qualification tests have been completed and were successful. Some Cheetah could be re-engined in 2005.

Chetan, Chetak re-engined with TM 333 2M2

The Chetan (former Chetak, equivalent to the Alouette III, manufactured by HAL), has been re-engined with the TM 333 2M2. The first flight was completed the 1st February 2005 in Bangalore. The replacement of the Artouste III B engine with a Turbomeca TM 333 2M2 engine decreased considerably the light helicopter's fuel consumption, and improved its useful load.

World records

November 2004 was a special month in the history of Indian helicopter industry.

On 2nd November, the Dhruv, powered by the TM 333 2B2, soared to 25000 ft (7 520m) above mean sea level. This is the record for highest altitude flown by a middle weight class helicopter.

The Cheetal, equipped with TM 333 2M2, set the world record for a landing at highest altitude by a light weight helicopter, landing at a height of 23220 ft (7070m) above mean sea level.

Both the records were rendered more impressive due to the fact that the density altitude, a major factor governing the altitude at which a helicopter can fly, was significantly higher, at 27000 ft (8 200m) for the Dhruv, and 25150 ft (7670m) for the Cheetal. The records were set in terms of density altitude, too.

***

Turbomeca is the leading helicopter engine manufacturer, and has produced 50 000 turbines based on its own designs since the company was founded. With more than 2 000 customers in over 140 countries, Turbomeca provides a proximity service thanks to its 14 sites, 3 subsidiaries, 23 TurboSupport Centers, 32 repair centers and 90 Field representatives and Field mechanics. The Head Office is based in Bordes, Pyrénées-Atlantiques (south-west France). Turbomeca is part of the Snecma Group, specialists in aerospace propulsion and equipment. Microturbo, a subsidiary of Turbomeca, is the European leader in turbojet engines for missiles, drones and auxiliary power units.

Bettina Frey
Email: bettina.frey@turbomeca.fr
http://www.turbomeca.com/public/en/actu/comm.php
Arun_S
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Post by Arun_S »

At the Aero India 05, I met Gp Cpt Botola the world record holder "Highest Helicpotor Landing". A very fine person he is.
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Post by Jagan »

Arun_S wrote:At the Aero India 05, I met Gp Cpt Botola the world record holder "Highest Helicpotor Landing". A very fine person he is.
Ofcourse we know that, that you met him.. you took the fourth picture on this page right?
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/al ... hp?gall=PP
Whos the other guy with the show daily bag? :D
Ved
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Post by Ved »

Katare wrote:What if we have a fat/big pilot? Payload goes to zero? :roll:
Unbelievable, but we dont HAVE any more big fat pilots - theyre actually grounded, and I dont mean the oldies, but the young guys on the flight line.
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Post by Ved »

Katare wrote:What if we have a fat/big pilot? Payload goes to zero? :roll:
Unbelievable, but we dont HAVE any more big fat pilots - they're actually grounded, and I dont mean the oldies, but the young guys on the flight line.
Arun_S
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Post by Arun_S »

Jagan wrote:
Arun_S wrote:At the Aero India 05, I met Gp Cpt Botola the world record holder "Highest Helicpotor Landing". A very fine person he is.
Ofcourse we know that, that you met him.. you took the fourth picture on this page right?
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/al ... hp?gall=PP
Whos the other guy with the show daily bag? :D
I miss his name, so poor at remembering names ;)
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Post by Himanshu »

Arun_S wrote:.......

I miss his name, so poor at remembering names ;)

I know.. I know :twisted:

This guys keeps Agni-I-II-III-IIIII.... etc etc Prithvi 150/250/350/450/etc etc kind of toys in his bag.. :P
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Post by shiv »

Katare wrote:What if we have a fat/big pilot? Payload goes to zero? Than they must have a weight limit for pilots like horse jockeys? :D 20-30 Kg just doesn't make any sense to me whatever be the altitude. :roll:
Katare - I see a smiley in youir post so I don't know if you were joking. If you know any Vayusena pilots personally you will realise just how strict the Air Force is with regard to weight.

There are regular medical check ups and anyone who exceeds the prescribed weight is taken off. Period. Flying is serious business and there are NO FAT SLOBS among active pilots.

Maybe I will redo and release the Vayushakti film footage as a CD. There is one scene which pans across a whole lot of vayusena personnel and some foreign air force types as well. NONE of them is fat - they are all so slim that you would never ever be able to get such a picture of a group of slim people stading together anywhere in Bangalore outside the forces areas. It is an unbelievable picture if you are attuned to noticing fat slobs.
Katare
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Post by Katare »

Shiv,

I replied you in detail on the lines of that I was just trying to make a point and am aware that pilots have not only weight but height limits too and I shouldn't have used word fat. But the post got deleted during last hacking episode and I am not feeling like typing it all over again.

Anyway
This article says chota Chetan is 90Kg lighter and has more powerful engine, wouldn't that imply that the pay load must have gone up at least substantially more that 90 Kg?
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Post by Rakesh »

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