New Chetan Helicopter: News & Discussion

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New Chetan Helicopter: News & Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 25 Jan 2005 02:21

This is a significant investment and progress made by HAL on its own steam.

Cheetal is re-engined version of Cheeta with M333 engine. Only engine is changed.

But this Chetan has everything changed except the airframe.

Deccan Herald: Chetan set to take off at Aero-India 2005
The new helicopter Chetan, an upgraded version of Chetak and designed by HAL, consumes less fuel thereby increasing its range and endurance.

BY MADHUPRASAD

DH NEWS SERVICE BANGALORE:

‘Chetan’, the new helicopter of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) that made its first ground run on Monday, is all set to take part in Aero-India 2005 to be held from February 9 to 13.

The helicopter is said to be a “re-engined and upgraded” version of Chetak and the only thing it retains from the original is the frame. Everything else is new. Its engine is changed - the same as the one that the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) uses. So the control systems are also new, as will be the rotor blades.

According to a senior officer at the HAL the helicopter which will make its maiden flight within a few days will perform at the aero show after a few test flights. The Chetan project is entirely funded by HAL with a mission to evacuate causalities from high-altitude (above 10,000 ft), he added.

The project was started six months ago and received its impetus after HAL’s Cheetal created a world record by landing 25,150 feet on Saser Kangi peak, next to Siachen Glacier, said the officer.

The power plant for Chetan is the same as used in the ALH Dhruv (TM 333 2B2). The Chetans will sport glass cockpit in future giving the pilot versatility in monitoring onboard systems.

Speaking to Deccan Herald HAL Chairman A K Baweja said, “The modern engine will make Chetan a highly reliable helicopter with far less fuel consumption which will increase its range, endurance and useful load. HAL is also involving DGCA officials in the flight-testing process to get the civil certification for Chetan,”
The new helicopter will widen HAL’s export market with many countries already flying Chetaks. “Chetans will encourage many states to go in for life-extension of the their existing fleet of Chetaks,” Wg Cdr (Retd) C D Upadhyay, HAL’s Chief Test Pilot (RW) said.

Chetan’s first flight will take place by January end. It will be flown at Aero India 2005 by Wg Cdr P S Rao and Sqn Ldr S Jain, who are the project test pilot and test engineers respectively.


What that means to me is that the whole propulsition and control is changed. Along with the engine the rotor and gearbox are changed. This is significant since the Cheetal uses the original rotor and gearbox but the engine shaft is rotates in opposite direction, so an external appendage was added to drive the rotor is correct direction. So this new helicoptor with blades and transmission matched to new & more powerful engine means better performance overall, and greater range due to more efficient engine as well as not needing those tens of kilo of gear train to invert the direction of engine drive train. Hopefully they have also put in a better Gearbox to match greater stress arising out of powerful engine and high altitude gust.

As for glass control that is very good news also. Mountain operations need GPS and precision nav aids, something sorely missing in Cheetha.

The key data to lookout for is how much fuel+payload it can lift at 25,000 ft?
Last edited by Arun_S on 25 Jan 2005 08:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Chetan helicopter: News and Discussion

Postby karan » 25 Jan 2005 03:24

Heck yeah, This news just lighten up my day. Just a msg to Unkil...you can keep your High Altitude Helos to yourself. We have our own now.
:twisted:

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Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2005 03:35

Excellent news indeed. A very good development by HAL. Congrats to everyone involved in the project.

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Postby Cybaru » 25 Jan 2005 03:43

COOL!!

Good news indeed.

Shortest path to LOH.

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Postby venkat_r » 25 Jan 2005 04:05

The speed with which these projects are being completed like in 6 months, speaks volumes about the confidence and the effiency of the project team. Look at them saying that It will fly at Aero India, when the maiden flight did not take place yet. This is awesome news.

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Postby Katare » 25 Jan 2005 07:22

Once you been there all by yourself (ALH/LCA) you are more confident and can get there again much quicker (Chetan/IJT) 8)

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Postby Singha » 25 Jan 2005 08:42

TOI published a photo with the article. people were working on the engine
and on the instrument panel.

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Postby Ragav » 25 Jan 2005 17:12


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Postby Singha » 25 Jan 2005 17:30

The CHEETAL (re-engined Cheetah) also has the TM333 engine.

looks like we are standardizing all small & medium helos into the TM333 and in future the Shakti family.

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Postby Jagan » 25 Jan 2005 18:49

Singha wrote:TOI published a photo with the article. people were working on the engine
and on the instrument panel.


Chetan to hit skies in Aero India
TIMES NEWS NETWORK

Bangalore: The latest helicopter from HAL stable — Chetan — a re-engined and upgraded version of HAL’s Chetak did its first ground run here on Monday.
The seventh from HAL, Chetan will fly in the next few days and exhibit its skills during Aero India 2005 set to begin on February 9, HAL officials said.
Chetan, the modern version of nearly 300 Chetaks in operation with the defence forces and civil operators in India, was funded by HAL. Its primary use will be in missions to evacuate high-altitude causalities.
Started merely six months ago, the Chetan project received thrust after another helicopter from the HAL stable, Cheetal, created a world record by landing at a height of 25,150 feet on Saser Kangi peak near Siachen.
The new helicopter is powered by the same engine (TM 333 2B2) as HAL’s much-acclaimed Advanced Light Hel i c o p t e r (Dhruv). The older Artouste 3B engine in use in the Chetaks has been replaced by the Dhruv engine. With its glass cockpit, Chetans are expected to give pilots a greater versatility. “The modern engine will make Chetan a highly reliable helicopter with far less fuel consumption which will increase its range, endurance and useful load. HAL is also involving DGCA officials in the flight-testing process to get the civil certification for Chetan,’’ said HAL chairman A.K. Baweja.
The new helicopter is expected to be on HALs export list especially with many countries already flying its older versions.
“Chetans will encourage many state governments to go in for life-extension of their existing fleet of Chetaks,’’ says Wg. Cdr. (Retd) C.D. Upadhyay, HAL’s chief test pilot.
The first flight of Chetan will take place by the end of January.
It will be flown at the Aero India 2005 by the project test pilot Wg. Cdr. P.S. Rao and test engineer Sqn. Ldr. S. Jain.
Chetan is HAL’s latest effort at re-engineering existing choppers to meet modern requirements.

(Photo follows soon)

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Postby Jagan » 25 Jan 2005 18:51

Image

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Postby A Sharma » 25 Jan 2005 19:04

If Chetan is upgraded Cheetah then the pic is wrong . The pic show chetak not cheetah

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Postby Jagan » 25 Jan 2005 19:10

asharma wrote:If Chetan is upgraded Cheetah then the pic is wrong . The pic show chetak not cheetah


Upgraded Cheetah is a Cheetal
Upgraded Chetak is a Chetan

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Postby SaiK » 25 Jan 2005 19:48

Chetan in mallu means BROTHER!. :)

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Postby anilK » 25 Jan 2005 19:52

that means an increase in power available to the copter from 820 to 1100 shp... woohoo..

what will this extra power mean in terms of lift and armaments ??

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Postby Raman » 25 Jan 2005 22:55

Since Dhruv is scheduled to be re-engined by the Ardiden/Shakti (1200 shp vs. 1000 shp for the TM333 2B2), I'm guessing that this upgrade path is also available to Chetan and Cheetal. We're going to have some *wicked* high-altitude capability ... :D

BTW, any news on the Shakti? Test flights are supposed to start this year but I haven't heard anything about it ...

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Postby amiava » 26 Jan 2005 01:05

'Chhota Chetan' :D is very good news.
IMHO Hal/Ada should be taking steps to move from development of Light Helicopters to medium & heavy lift heli.
With an eye on the future we should be looking towards relapcements of Mi8, Mi17 & Mi26.

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Postby IssacB » 26 Jan 2005 01:15

Hi all, just signed on to this board. I have frequented the Bharat Rakshak board off and on for awhile now. Just started lurking recently on the forums.

Very interesting stuff to read about. A little help with the lingo will be great as I like to learn more and appreciate the discussions more fully.

I assume, TSP = Terrorist State of Pak
MCA ?
IJT?

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Postby Arun_S » 26 Jan 2005 01:30

IssacB: Welcome.

As for
MCA: Medium Combat Aircraft
IJT: Intermediate Jet Trainer
{ see BR's IAF section and BR-Military Forum the thread "Indian Miltary Aviation" for more}


Talking of Chetan, for those not upto date on Indian languages "Chetan" is a Sanskrit word meaning "conciousness" {I.e. abelity to identify self and relate to things around the self}

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Postby rags » 26 Jan 2005 11:29

Fantastic news and the new aircraft speaks volumes of ingenuity and hard work put in by the guys at HAL.
The ALH program for over 7 years, every single day, a Dhruv would be up and flying at the HAL helicopter division. And I saw the same aircraft today flying for the first time in the RD parade and with the ALH carrying the Indian flag. Is there a emoticon for "feeling intense nationalistic pride"?:)

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Postby IssacB » 26 Jan 2005 16:36

rags wrote: Is there a emoticon for "feeling intense nationalistic pride"?:)


I am sure, someone here can design one in the national colors. Maybe a small tricolor flag waving?

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Postby SaiK » 26 Jan 2005 20:15

Arun_S wrote: "Chetan" is a Sanskrit word meaning "conciousness" {I.e. abelity to identify self and relate to things around the self}


wow! lots of high-tech software and sensors on board then. target observation, recognition, peer-colloboration and communication [other chetan-systems], joint intellegence for mass destruction with minimum chetan-weapons, etc.. :twisted: airbourne samyukta!?

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Significance of Chetan and Cheetal

Postby JCage » 27 Jan 2005 17:02

Well here we go, a pretty darn good reason why we need these birds: ;)

Mr Mukherjee in a written reply to another question informed the House that the Government planned to import helicopters to replace the present Cheetah and Chetak for high altitude operations.

Global 'request for proposal (RFP) had already been issued, he said.

The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) did not manufacture helicopters in the category for which the RPF had been issued. The proposal envisaged import of some helicopters and transfer of technology from the successful vendors to enable HAL to manufacture these helicopters.

HAL would be able to manufacture such helicopters after the transfer of technology, he added.


http://www.defenceindia.com/06-dec-2k4/news8.html


[/quote]

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Postby putnanja » 01 Feb 2005 11:06

'Chetan' maiden flight successful

Bangalore, Feb. 1. (PTI): Chetan, an upgraded Chetak helicopter, made its first flight successfully here today.

Chetan has been fitted with a powerful Snecma TM 333 2B2 engine that powers Dhruv, the Advanced Light Helicopter and is an upgraded version of HAL's workhorse Chetak, officials said.

The helicopter was flown over the Bangalore sky by project test pilot Wg. Cdr. P S Rao, and test engineer Sqn. Ldr. S. Jain.

Union Defence Secretary (Defence production) Shekar Dutt and senior HAL officials including Chairman A K Baweja witnessed the flight.

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited began the Chetan project six months ago and the self-funded project received impetus after HAL's Cheetal helicopter (the re-engined Cheetah) created a world record by landing at an altitude of 25,150 feet on Saser Kangi peak, next to Siachen glacier.

HAL plans to display the Chetan helicopters during the Aero India air show this month.


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Postby A Sharma » 01 Feb 2005 19:20


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Postby vipin » 01 Feb 2005 21:14


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Postby ragupta » 02 Feb 2005 03:32

While Chota Chetan is a good and appreciable move to extend the life of old workhorse. It would have been much nicer if it would have come in the shape of LOH, that was displayed in aero India 2003. Even if all the component with the new model LOH would have been same, still it would have had much better impact.

I think the LOH would fetch HAL more external customer, along with ALH. It would be simply single engine DHRUV. With component similar to Chota Chetan. A more futuristic looking flying machine then Cheetah and Chetan. I have to say looks make a difference.

HAL need to start working on 3-engine model that would take on merlin, EH-101, cougar, MI-8/17 etc. Hopefully not too much effort is needed with good base of tech established with ALH.

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Postby putnanja » 02 Feb 2005 04:03

Chetak upgraded version makes test flight

Chetan will fly as one of HAL's showpieces at the Aero India show opening in Bangalore next week. It can fly nearly 450 km non-stop without refuelling and at a height of 2-4 km and a speed of 150 nautical miles per hour.

The two copters have vertical take-off and quick landing capability and can be used by defence and civilian agencies for personnel and cargo transportation, casualty evacuation, rescue operation, close air support, anti-insurgency and anti-tank and anti-submarine uses.



Image

Chetan completes maiden flight

A 20-minute sortie was all it took for Chetan, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.'s (HAL) upgraded Chetak helicopter to register a successful maiden flight here today.
...
Buoyed by Chetan's success, Mr. Baweja was quick to unveil the company's plans to upgrade nearly 200 Chetak helicopters being operated by the armed forces and the civilian sector.
...
The most significant benefits of the Chetan are increased fuel reserves, range and improved ability to be deployed; higher engine reliability; increased effective payload due to lower fuel requirement; quicker start-up and re-light procedures; and improved engine handling and reduced noise level.


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Postby Cybaru » 02 Feb 2005 04:54

The LOH requirement just got filled.

Are they still planning on buying more farreeen copters ?

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Postby Katare » 02 Feb 2005 06:02

This is good news and good business strategy by HAL, having a family of products makes it easier for you sell one of them. A three-engine medium/heavy copter in next 10 years will complete the circle for HAL in this category.

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Postby srai » 02 Feb 2005 10:45

There is yet another benefit through this standardization of engines across two-thirds of the Heli inventory (ALH, Cheetal and Chetan [other than the Russian ones at the moment]) - costs of inventory, training, maintenance, etc. across IA, IN, IAF ... joint helicoptor command (at least in acquisition & maintenance) in the making?

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Postby JCage » 02 Feb 2005 14:53

Speaking of engines...of course, theres yet anothe factor!

The HAL move makes perfect sense! Good on them to have done so, instead of waiting around for x,y,z to commit, I guess I've said enough.

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Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2005 15:50

mehrauli and chattarpur farmhouses must be buzzing with discussions on how to salvage the LOH deal and the fat commisions and foreign shopping trips.

hopefully Pranabda will put a stop to it.

HAL should rub some salt into the wound and display a FLIR and NVG equipped LOH version of Chetan soon if only as a mockup. rub some israeli
made paint on it and should be acceptable.

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Postby JCage » 02 Feb 2005 16:11

Its not just the LOH boss, think deeper! Given recent news and what the services want I guess its clear what HAL is doing. Upgrades make mucho sense.

Sure, they can integrate the IAI sourced Mission kit into the LOH also. At the very least, if not TOT (HAL refused that because of tech creep considerations) they should finally set up service & support at HAL.

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Postby JCage » 02 Feb 2005 17:34

Ok, this is what I meant:

http://tinyurl.com/4lk9v

Note: Its a PDF file. Mozilla may crash. Save it and then open.

Note how many engines HAL ordered after test service eval showed the TM333 2B2's to be pretty good. The 2B2 allows the ALH to carry out 90% of its planned missions.

Now, apparently, the services would rather hold out for a new powerpack itself on grounds of logistics and functionality issues.

It makes ample sense for HAL to utilize these engines for upgrades for India's huge Chetak and Cheetah fleet. Then of course, there are the benefits of standardization as mentioned earlier.

What HAL's doing is extremely sensible and shows the org has come of age. They are coming up with solutions and trying to push them forth.

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Postby SaiK » 14 Feb 2005 19:51

How Chetak became Chetan

The ‘70s vintage Chetak has been given a fresh lease of life by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited by this re-engining exercise.

In recent months, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, Bangalore has been carrying out a major ‘mid-life upgrade’ of the Chetak helicopter. The Chetak, designed by the French company M/s Aerospatiale, has been manufactured under license by HAL in India since the 1970s and has been a very reliable workhorse of the Indian Air Force, but the time had come to modernise and enhance its capabilities taking advantages of advances in technology.

So what did the upgrade involve and what are the new features on the chopper?
The first step undertaken before the new and more powerful TM 333 engine could be fitted on the Chetak was to understand the design considerations that had gone into the development of the Chetak. The design team along with Wg Cdr PS Rao, test pilot and Sqn Ldr Shovit Jain, Flight Test Engineer had to map all loads, forces and torques on the Chetak helicopter while on the ground and in flight. A helicopter’s rotating rotor blades generate the lift required to make the helicopter fly but this rotation also generates a reaction torque which attempts to spin the body of the helicopter in the direction opposite to the spin of the rotor blades. This is countered on helicopters like the Chetan by the tail rotor. Also, the rotating main rotor sets up other complex force fields around the helicopter. As all this is crucial to the stability of the helicopter, precise measurements of the torque and other forces had to be recorded before re-engining the Chetak. HAL’s state-of-the-art ‘Flight Test Instrumentation Centre’ — one of two in Asia — carried out these measurements.

Before fixing the new engine, the mounting structures had to be redesigned and subjected to the necessary ground tests according to aviation standards. Once the new engine had been fitted on, when the prototype was in flight, the Flight Test Instrumentation Centre played the all important role of monitoring aircraft stability and safety, maintaining constant communication with the pilot.

The FADEC
While the TM 333 engine is more powerful and sophisticated than the Artouste III B engine in many ways, the very attractive technological improvement is the software that controls the engine.

The new engine comes with a sophisticated “Full authority digital engine control (FADEC)â€

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Postby Katare » 15 Feb 2005 00:30

Even at high altitudes, the Chetan can take an additional weight of around 30 to 40 kgs — this may not seem like much but when compared to the earlier 20 kg payload — the advantage is enormous!


Is there a zero missing in these figures? 20Kg of payload sounds DDM to me? A pilot can be havier than other pilot by 20Kg bringing the payload to zero?


I am mighty impressed by HAL on the timelines they are acheiving on their NPI (new product introduction) to market.

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Postby Abhisham » 15 Feb 2005 04:09

Katare they are not missing a zero. The actual payload given around 20-30kg is normal for flying altitudes over 20,000 feet. The payload capacity decreases considerably at high altitude and even lesser during summers. The Mi-17 which can't operate at these hights but lesser around 14,000+ feet has a decrease in payload capacity up to 75% or from 4 tons to less than a ton. The payload capacity doesn't include the pilot + 1 (co-pilot/passenger). Usually they are used for casualty evacuation or sometimes critical supplies like fuel can be airlifted, othertimes used by senior officers for a visit to forward posts.

Abhi

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30-40 kg

Postby Rien » 15 Feb 2005 08:23

That is still not a useful payload. I can't imagine how much use only a 30 kg payload at that altitude would be. Now 300 kg would be useful, .. but 30 is ridiculous. At that rate, it would be close to impossible to resupply any soldiers at high altitude.

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Postby Abhisham » 15 Feb 2005 09:16

Those helicopters are not used for re-supply, for that you stock up supplies during summer times as well as paradrop necessary supplies which can later be picked up using snow-moblies. Already mentioned major requirement is for casualty evacuation both day and night and extreme weather condition. There have been cases where casualties cannot be evacuated immediately due to bad weather etc.


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