Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4204
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby Arjun » 31 Mar 2011 10:39

somnath wrote:So if Warren Buffet earns (say) 1 billion dollars every year from his equity in Berkshire, he can either buy more stock of the company with that, or invest in other businesses, or buy real estate in Manhatton or islands off Monaco, or give it away to Bill Gates Foundation...the perspective of people like Buffet is that his company, Berkshire will anyway take advantage of any emerging investment opportunity that he sees..therefore, his personal money need not be restricted to be used in his "vision", but can be used for a larger cause...Its a perspective, and there are no right or wrong answers...

Your argument can be used when investment rate in the country is good enough through other sources. In fact one can take the state of the US economy today itself as an example. Clearly there is immense whining (reflected in other BRF threads) on the state of the US economy - & high unemployment rates. Growth rate is low - investment is not picking up even as interest rates are near zero - QE2 has not resulted in credit pickup.

One could argue that American billionaires are not doing enough to invest in their own economy, and most are chasing growth in emerging markets. UHNWs in the US might be holding as much as 5 Trillion $ in assets - lets assume they divert 10% of the total wealth to employment generating investment in the US - that would result in an additional $500 Bn as investment. Assuming this is leveraged 2 times, we are talking of hiking the investment rate by 10% of US GDP. This could potentially grow the US economy by an additional 2 - 2.5%, and bring down unemployment by 1% or more.

Similar calculations may be even more valid in the case of developing countries like India and China. But yes, health and social indicators like eradicating malaria, primary education etc are better addressed through non-profits.

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby somnath » 31 Mar 2011 10:46

^^^Well, Warren Buffet has no restrictions on investment...If he thinks that there is a dearth of investment opportunities in the US (BTW, he doesnt, in fact quite to the contrary he thinks US is very well positioned, but let that pass), he can as well invest in Korea or India or China...Its not incumbent on him to give it to the Bill Gates Foundation...

Issue with "profit investing" is that it will always need returns..Philanthrophy doesnt, and hence can price the final service/product much better for the poorer consumer...In certain areas, public health for example, it is crucial...Malaria is largely a por man's curse...Going by current norms, an attempt at a malaria vaccine would cost 1-2 billion dollars in research..If it is done by Pfizer, the company will need to price that in...If it is done by Bill Gate Foundation, the price can be a fraction...I would say ditto with educaiton as well..

Of course, it doesnt work always -profit is the source of new innovation etc...But certain areas are better served by philanthrphy than by profit motives...Basically, here philanthrphy supplements govt efforts...

Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3109
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby Virupaksha » 31 Mar 2011 11:03

somnath wrote:BTW, chaps who can do both the above usually come from some of these "elite brands" - their ability and creds are co-terminus with the ability and creds of these orgs :wink: So its a self-fulfilling virtuous cycle!

Usually they become a single agenda groups where all others agendas are pushed out and new ideas are curbed, and an incestious relationship between them.

An example: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/science/08tier.html


somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby somnath » 31 Mar 2011 13:48

^^^The official numbers, with tables etc here..
http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011-prov ... t_2011.pdf

A lot more data-cuts here..

Key points:

1. Population growth is ~1.7%, dipping marginally..
2. Literacy rates are up to 74%, from 65% in 2001.
3. Sex ratio has improved (to 940, from 933), but sex ration in the "0-6" category has declined.

More data should be coming out in the next few weeks..The religion and caste numbers should give rise toa round of fun and games :wink:

krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5704
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby krisna » 31 Mar 2011 17:45

viewtopic.php?p=1056804#p1056804 dated 28 march 2011 7.53 am somnath
Quite to the contrary, most of the wealth was carved up between various brothers of the clan, with disputes over them spilling over well in to the 21st century.
This was never the intended idea behind the article but somnath picked it up when it was unwarranted.He does have the liberty to do what he pleases. In the same vein I have the liberty to point it out as it is an open forum.
america's 100 large family firms
Family owned busines in america

The greatest part of America’s wealth lies with family-owned businesses. Family firms comprise 80% to 90% of all business enterprises in North America.
Family-Owned Businesses contribute 64% of the GDP and employ 62% of the U.S. workforce.
More than 30% of all Family-Owned Businesses survive into the second generation. Twelve percent will still be viable into the third generation, with 3% of all family businesses operating at the fourth-generation level and beyond. family wranglings is one of the factors among many in this decline. compare this to Indian scene which is similar
34% of family firms expect the next CEO to be a woman.
Return On Assets is 6.65% greater than the same return for non-family firms.
Family firm performance is 5.5% greater when founding families maintain an ownership stake.


same as in India. again I suspect a world wide trait. It only shows humans behave similarly world wide.
some of them are well known world wide similar to tatas bajas and ambanis in India.
They all have had lot of internal wranglings in the family.
This is the trait common to all family business worldwide whether in europe asia or america. Hence no point in dissing Indian firms. Hope the point is made loud and clear. 8) TFWIW :wink:

krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5704
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby krisna » 31 Mar 2011 18:26

viewtopic.php?p=1056804#p1056804 dated 28 march 2011 9.53 am somnath
he quoted from the article when the the author mentioned that bill gates has opeartions in cayman islands and reno of nevada.
This is a real clincher..I dont know whether Bill Gates has anything in Cayman, but Indian business worthies have not evaded taxes!!! the list of big tax evaders and "deliberate NPA creators" in India would be a roll call of honour of the business families...

one can search on google with terms bill gates tax evasion cayman islands reno of nevada etc which gives many links including the reputable ones 8) .
Many brfites know that US gov has come down particularly hard on US firms operating outside US to evade taxes including bill gates also. Obama has been trying to get these worthies to pay taxes, avoid evasions etc. bill gates has something in cayman islands ireland and many other places. bliss to check them below. it is simple search on google.

microsoft and tax evasion

bill gates and cayman islands
bill gates and reno of nevada tax evasion


All I can say is the R Vaidya the author of the article is correct in mentioning that bill gates has operations in cayman islands and reno nevada etc to minimise or evade taxes. :wink:

VenkataS
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 03:38

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby VenkataS » 31 Mar 2011 18:50

I cannot believe that literacy rate has only increased by 9% points this decade from 65% to 74%, especially because it had such a heartening growth in the 1990s from 52% in 1991 to 65% in 2001. I expected it to be in the 77-80% range this census.

joshvajohn
BRFite
Posts: 1516
Joined: 09 Nov 2006 03:27

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby joshvajohn » 31 Mar 2011 19:33

UPA not serious on black money issue: BJP
http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfeed/n ... 28445.html


Black money case: Govt refuses to reveal names
http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... es/430156/

SC Flays Govt for Not Probing Sources of Black Money
http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?716664

Centre against SIT on black money
http://www.zeenews.com/news696323.html

Cong leader helped Hasan Ali park money in Singapore
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... apore.html

Sule asked I-T to call off black money probe
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2011/mar/17 ... mumbai.htm


Supreme court should say that the present government under Manmohan singh has lost legal rights to continue as they protect those who are having black money (an thereby allow them to steal India's tax money) and give such black money against Indian interests.

Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3109
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby Virupaksha » 31 Mar 2011 19:36

VenkataS wrote:I cannot believe that literacy rate has only increased by 9% points this decade from 65% to 74%, especially because it had such a heartening growth in the 1990s from 52% in 1991 to 65% in 2001. I expected it to be in the 77-80% range this census.

VenkataS,

What the figure 74% means : more than 90% of the children becoming literate.
The lagging behind are the adults.

From now on, even 5-10% increase is pretty good.

VenkataS
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 03:38

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby VenkataS » 01 Apr 2011 04:33

ravi_ku,

Ideally close to 100% of the children should be becoming literate and we should be educating the illiterate adults as well.

I wish they had published the number of years of schooling per each person as well. They will be probably doing it in the final census results.

If you look at the 2011 literacy map there are vast swathes of the country which still have less than 70% literacy rate and a number of places where the female literacy rate is less than 60% which is a travesty.

Another disturbing trend is the decrease in the sex ratio in the 0-6 age group from 927 in 2001 to 914 now. It is at its lowest level now, and has been on a downward trajectory from 1961 onwards.

VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2109
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby VinodTK » 01 Apr 2011 05:33


somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby somnath » 01 Apr 2011 07:46

VenkataS wrote:Ideally close to 100% of the children should be becoming literate and we should be educating the illiterate adults as well.

I wish they had published the number of years of schooling per each person as well. They will be probably doing it in the final census results.

VenkataS-ji, its not just the adults, there are still gaps in child education as well...There is data that is published on enrollmnet ratios and importantly, drop-outs..Here are the latest numbers..

http://education.nic.in/AR/AR2009-10/AR2009-10.pdf
(go to page 330)..

As you can see, enrollment ratios are still less than 100%, espeically in the higher clases..Dropout rates are very high too, including in the primary classes as well...So there is progress, but in a large country, it is excruciatingly slow...

There are econometric models to extrapolate literacy levels every year - UNDP uses some for its annual HDI calculations...Interestingly, the numbers from the census arent far off from UNDP's estimates (74% v/s estimate of ~69-70%)...

Unfortunately the country has not had a half-decent HRD minister for 20 years now - Arjun Singh, followed by MM Joshi, followed by Arjun Singh again...Kapil Sibal is a good guy, but too busy being a general purpose hatchet man...If I were MMS, I would give it to Jairam Ramesh....Education at all levels, literacy to higher education, needs fresh ideas...

Theo_Fidel
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7571
Joined: 31 Mar 2006 02:15
Location: MO,US,NCJ TN

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby Theo_Fidel » 01 Apr 2011 11:17

ravi_ku wrote:What the figure 74% means : more than 90% of the children becoming literate.


Yes,

This is a base effect. As a proportion of the population the student cohort is decreasing. This is our demographic dividend. Anything 80%+ is excellent labor base. Improvements beyond that will be incremental.

What we should note is Bihar went from 47% to 64%, UP from 56% to 70% :eek:.

AP went from 60% to 68%. Yo golti's :) . UP just passed you by. Whats with that. Your female literacy sucks too. If AP had put up a decent number we would be in the 76% range at least.

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6018
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby vina » 01 Apr 2011 12:47

What we should note is Bihar went from 47% to 64%, UP from 56% to 70%


Hallelujah! More power to the heartland. Lead kindly from darkness to light! Way to go.

The regime change has worked miracles in Bihar. Another 2 terms for Nitish and positive changes in UP (I hope Mayawati gets the Nitish Kumar example) and the two giant laggards in India will become Tigers , given the low base, ample land, water human and other resources, including of course the votes in the Lok Sabha!

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby somnath » 01 Apr 2011 13:13

^^^The issue is with dropout rates...As the axiom goes - you can take the horse to water.....

The other good development is of course on female literacy...The number of "incremental" literate population - women outnumber men in that list...So at the margin, more girls are going to schools - which has a domino effect on the families...

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6018
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby vina » 01 Apr 2011 13:43

You can see some of the changes brought about by high population growth.

When I was in school long long long ago, Kerala was the state with the highest pop density! And now we have WB, Bengal and UP having HIGHER (or nearly similar in UP) pop densities as Kerala!

And notice that Bihar and WB's pop densities are TWICE that of Tamil Nadu (okay, Bihar had Jharkand carved out of it.. but all the same). :shock:

And also notice, that Guj and Rajasthan, even with a much lower base added significantly more in absolute terms than TN and if the trends continue will have a HIGHER pop than TN! Who would have thunk that some 35/30 years ago?

Wonder how an arid /semi arid state like Rajasthan can support such a population load!

WB is going to go the way of Bangladesh (What with 3000+ pop density) if they don't pull their pants up and get the economy going again. Between the Commies and Didi, it seems like a lost cause.

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby somnath » 01 Apr 2011 14:12

^^Part of the reason is urbanisation...And population transfer to urban aglomerations and suburbs..So Noida, Greater NOIDA and beyond attract a lot of people, pusing up the population density of UP (plus UP lost Uttarakhand)...States like TN have always been quite urbanised, hence the "delta" is lesser...But as the larger north Indian states urbanise, they will attract a lot many more people from the north and the east...

vina wrote:WB is going to go the way of Bangladesh (What with 3000+ pop density) if they don't pull their pants up and get the economy going again. Between the Commies and Didi, it seems like a lost cause

+infinity.... :(

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Jan 1 2010)

Postby Vipul » 01 Apr 2011 20:29

February exports up 49.7% y-o-y.

India’s exports in February rose an annual 49.7% to $23.6 billion, while imports for the month rose 21.2% on the year to $31.7 billion, government data released on Friday showed.

India’s trade deficit in February remained steady at $8.1 billion compared with $8 billion in January.

Exports in April-February rose an annual 31.4% to $208.2 billion. Oil imports for February fell an annual 0.3% to $8.2 billion.


Return to “Strategic & Security Issues Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests