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Intelligence & National Security Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
kmkraoind
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby kmkraoind » 06 Oct 2013 19:21

The great betrayal - The New Indian Express

Its a big article and worth reading in full.

kit
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby kit » 06 Oct 2013 23:27

hate to say this., but the simplest answer might be the most correct. India has been a free for all ground for almost all intelligence agencies in the world for quite a long time now. Heck, even the government of India doesnt trust its own agencies where it matters.Every new government starts a new intelligence agency for the real work.The ones already there IB RAW etc are deemed by the government to be too compromised to deal with any real intelligence, and they exist only to give post retirement/favorites plum jobs abroad.Most sensitive departments are already under multiple influences from abroad.Military was the only bastion that had been kept away from external influences .. that has changed too (esp with IA) .. for the worse .. how much.. only time will tell. The rot is lop sided starting from the very high levels

some one looking at the whole picture wonder how India ever survived being a democracy !.. maybe as long as everyone gets their fill, the motivation will be to maintain the status quo

God bless India !

RoyG
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 07 Oct 2013 00:21

kit wrote:hate to say this., but the simplest answer might be the most correct. India has been a free for all ground for almost all intelligence agencies in the world for quite a long time now. Heck, even the government of India doesnt trust its own agencies where it matters.Every new government starts a new intelligence agency for the real work.The ones already there IB RAW etc are deemed by the government to be too compromised to deal with any real intelligence, and they exist only to give post retirement/favorites plum jobs abroad.Most sensitive departments are already under multiple influences from abroad.Military was the only bastion that had been kept away from external influences .. that has changed too (esp with IA) .. for the worse .. how much.. only time will tell. The rot is lop sided starting from the very high levels

some one looking at the whole picture wonder how India ever survived being a democracy !.. maybe as long as everyone gets their fill, the motivation will be to maintain the status quo

God bless India !


We're going through a rough time but we'll pull through and major reforms will be undertaken.

rajithn
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby rajithn » 07 Oct 2013 11:31

ToIlet has anarticle buried in the online edition that the Artificer at vizag any a chief engineer associated with the Arihant have been found dead near railway tracks. Initial indications are that they were not run over and looks like they were killed somewhere else and their bodies dumped near the tracks. Anyone else have additional inputs?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Sachin » 07 Oct 2013 11:43

rajithn wrote:Initial indications are that they were not run over and looks like they were killed somewhere else and their bodies dumped near the tracks. Anyone else have additional inputs?

Only input I have is that both these men were Malayalis. Infact they had some function at a common place attended that and then left out on a motor cycle never to return. The police also feels that this was not an accident or suicide. This is what is reported in Malayali media.

PratikDas
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 07 Oct 2013 11:49

ToI: Nuclear submarine engineer found dead on railway tracks in Visakhapatnam
Oct 7, 2013, 03.48 AM IST

VISAKHAPATNAM: Bodies of two defence personnel were found under suspicious circumstances on the railway tracks falling under Pendurty railway station (PRS) limits of East Coast Railways (ECoR) here on Sunday morning.

On being informed by railway trackmen, Government Railway Police (GRP) at Visakhapatnam railway station immediately reached the spot. Following enquiries, one of the deceased was identified as KK Josh, 34, chief engine room artificer (CERA) at Shipbuilding Centre, a unit of ministry of defence at the Eastern Naval Command (ENC) premises here. The other was identified as Abhish Shivam, 33, a chief engineer working at INS Arihant, India's first nuclear-powered submarine.

While Josh, a resident of Kakani Nagar near the airport, was a native of Kozhikode, Shivam belonged to Ernakulam district in Kerala and was living at the Navy quarters at Dolphins Hills. Both of them were posted in the city three years ago.

The GRP team along with a dog squad and fingerprint team scouted the area around the tracks and collected clues. While GRP cops maintained that a case was registered and awaiting the postmortem report from King George Hospital, relatives of the deceased and the leaders of Kerala Kala Samiti (KKS) alleged that the deaths appeared to be under suspicious circumstances and demanded that the police immediately launch a high-scale probe into the incident.

GRP circle inspector A Parthasaradhi told TOI that they had not seen any suspicious marks on the bodies of the two near the railway tracks. "As on Sunday, we filed a case and sent the bodies for postmortem at KGH. We have to wait for the report before making any statement," Parthasaradhi said.

Relatives and locals, however, raised suspicion over the incident, pointing out that there were no visible injuries on the bodies to show that they had come under a passing train. Suspicion was also raised that the two had been attacked elsewhere and their bodies thrown near the tracks.

GRP officials said there were no suspicious marks on the bodies. But the victims' kin said there were no visible injuries to show they had been run over by a train.

Sumeet
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Sumeet » 07 Oct 2013 12:45

I hope police takes this one seriously. I can't recall when I last heard people holding significantly responsible positions in high value projects dying unnatural deaths under suspicious circumstances. When our govt is lame and intelligence & security apparatus in its shackle, anti national forces can take advantage of the situation and test new avenues for hurting India. I just hope sense prevails in GoI and strict investigation be done.

Lilo
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Lilo » 07 Oct 2013 13:10

Sumeet wrote:. I can't recall when I last heard people holding significantly responsible positions in high value projects dying unnatural deaths under suspicious circumstances.....


Arjun project Senior scientist Swargiya Shri G.K Kumaravel in 2012
A senior scientist involved in the development of Arjun main battle tank died when a lorry smashed into a car in which he was travelling at Dechhu near Jodhpur in Rajasthan around 3.30pm on Monday.
G K Kumaravel of the Combat Vehicles Research Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, was head of the Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark 1 and 2 programmes. Police said he was on his way to Pokhran to participate in user trials of Arjun MBT Mark-2 when the accident occurred. Kumaravel died on the spot while senior CVRDE scientists P V Murali and Daniel Sunder Singh were


HAL senior test pilot Sawrgiya Shri Baldev Singh commits suicide by hanging from a tree in the hills where he went for a walk in 2011
HAL's chief test pilot (fixed wing) and recently made Director (Corporate Planning & Marketing) Squadron Leader (Retd) Baldev Singh was found dead this morning. Possible suicide. He was apparently on holiday in Karnataka's Nandi Hills, where his body was found. More details shortly. R.I.P.

An official profile released recently: Sqn Ldr Singh took over as Director (Corporate Planning & Marketing) at HAL in August. Before that, he was Executive Director Flight Operations and the Chief Test Pilot (Fixed Wing) at HAL's Bangalore Complex.

Singh was involved with the LCA Programme from 1990 onwards and was deputed to the Aeronautical Development Agency for this purpose. On the LCA programme he worked extensively on the development and flight testing of the flight control laws of the Light Combat aircraft. He carried out the flight evaluation of these flight control laws at the Real Time simulator at BAE Wharton in UK followed by the flight evaluation of these control laws on the F-16, Lear Jet and NT-33 aircraft in the US.

Singh had extensive test flying experience on five prototype programmes and carried out the first flights of the HANSA aircraft and the Intermediate Jet Trainer.


Apart from above cases from recent memory,there have been quite a few incidents in the past like....

Entire HAL Awacs project team was wiped out when a prototype crashed in 1999
Swargiya Shri Homi Bhabha dies in a plane crash .

nits
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby nits » 07 Oct 2013 15:51

Kerala, terror's own country, says NIA

Kerala has been declared a Red Zone by the National Investigation Agency, which firmly believes that the state has become a hotbed for terror activities. Last week’s verdict where 13 accused, including suspected Lashkar-e-Tayiba operative T Naseer, were sentenced to life imprisonment for recruiting persons to fight the battle in Kashmir is a testimony that terror activities in Kerala have flourished.

An officer with the NIA told rediff.com that investigating terror in Kerala is a different ball game. “There is a massive presence of the Indian Mujahideen and the Students Islamic Movement of India here. The problem, however, is that they operate under micro modules and this makes tracking them even more difficult.”

The investigation agency also faces trouble from Hindu youths who have taken it upon themselves to dismantle these terror outfits. “Our fight is a continuous one with no end in sight,” an officer said.


The bolder and lined part was surprising for me... can anyone throw more light on it... who are this Hindu orgs who are fighting terror outfits on there own and how do they managed to get all required logistic support to fight well equipped terror orgs


nits
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby nits » 07 Oct 2013 18:01

gauravsh wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/cbi-to-say-ishrat-jahan-was-innocent-college-girl-in-next-chargesheet-428967


Gaurav; always post a brief heading and summary quote of the link you are posting

VinodTK
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 08 Oct 2013 05:23

India Setting-Up Three New Armed Forces Commands – Analysis
The Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne announced last week that the Indian Armed Forces are submitting finalised proposals to the Government for approval of setting up three new Armed Forces Commands.

The three new Commands proposed to be set up are as follows:

Special Operations Command. To be headed by an Army Lieutenant General

Space Command. To be commanded by an Air Force Vice Air Marshal

Cyber Security Command. Will be headed by the three Services on a rotational basis by a three-star officer. It is possible that eventually it may be assigned to the Navy.

Also announced was that the Tri-Service Command headquartered in the Andaman & Nicobar Islands which was so far been held in rotation by the three Services will henceforth be headed by a Vice Admiral of the Indian Navy.
:
:
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member_25399
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby member_25399 » 08 Oct 2013 09:20

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-starts-process-to-extend-visa-on-arrival-to-40-nations-429228?pfrom=home-lateststories
India has initiated the process for making it a more tourist friendly destination, which includes extending on arrival visa for 40 more countries, simplifying online visa and attracting senior citizen foreign visitors.

The consensus was brought on these issues during a high level meeting convened here today by the Planning Commission.

"There was a consensus about initiating the process to make India a tourist-friendly country and extending the on-arrival visa facility to around 40 more countries," Planning Minister Rajeev Shukla told PTI.

The minister said: "All officials, including the National Security Advisor (Shivshankar Menon), were of the view that India should do this as it would help in garnering more foreign exchange when government is battling the problem of burgeoning current account deficit as it would help in earning foreign exchange."

Besides Commission's Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia, others who attended meeting include, Foreign Secretary (Sujatha Singh), Tourism Secretary (Parvez Dewan), Additional Home Secretary and representatives from the Intelligence Bureau and the PMO (Prime Minister's Office).

The countries for which visa on arrival facility would be extended include the US, the UK, Canada, Brazil, Australia, the UAE and Saudi Arabia, Germany, France, Italy, Swedan, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain, Belgium, Austria, Denmark, Poland, Norway and Ireland.

Under the visa on arrival system, India has agreement with different countries, including Japan, Finland, Singapore, Indonesia, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines, Laos and Myanmar.

Besides relaxing visa norms, Mr Shukla said: "There was broad consensus on simplifying online visa system, relaxing visa regime for all types of conferences and senior citizen foreign tourist or foreign pensioners."

According to Mr Shukla it was also decided that on arrival visa facility would be extended to more airports like Goa, Gaya, Chandigarh and Amritsar which have large flow of foreign tourists.

At present the on arrival visa facility is available at international airports of Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata, Mumbai,
Kochi, Hyderabad, Bengaluru, Kochi and Thiruvananthapuram.
..............


Isn't it too early to include countries from the gulf. Maybe we could have even avoided US, UK and Canada yet.

chackojoseph
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 08 Oct 2013 09:29

Better way is to have robust criminal database including INTERPOL systems, surveillance etc.

kit
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby kit » 08 Oct 2013 11:29

nits wrote:Kerala, terror's own country, says NIA

Kerala has been declared a Red Zone by the National Investigation Agency, which firmly believes that the state has become a hotbed for terror activities. Last week’s verdict where 13 accused, including suspected Lashkar-e-Tayiba operative T Naseer, were sentenced to life imprisonment for recruiting persons to fight the battle in Kashmir is a testimony that terror activities in Kerala have flourished.

An officer with the NIA told rediff.com that investigating terror in Kerala is a different ball game. “There is a massive presence of the Indian Mujahideen and the Students Islamic Movement of India here. The problem, however, is that they operate under micro modules and this makes tracking them even more difficult.”

The investigation agency also faces trouble from Hindu youths who have taken it upon themselves to dismantle these terror outfits. “Our fight is a continuous one with no end in sight,” an officer said.


The bolder and lined part was surprising for me... can anyone throw more light on it... who are this Hindu orgs who are fighting terror outfits on there own and how do they managed to get all required logistic support to fight well equipped terror orgs



ok here goes ., this might seem like straight out of a 'Believe it or not' .. just factual data ..cant give any links

1) this is just one episode..one entire container of fake and authentic Indian currency 1000 rupee notes ..amounting to an equivalent of 500 million usd .. entire load was shipped out from a smaller sea port (not kochi) in Kerala ..distribution to various outfits of a particular religious organization . Came through Saudi Arabia ..original port not known but could be SA .. money after being funneled was utilized for building schools, three very large multi specialty hospitals and buying up land .. real estate prices in the state capital and kochi surged during this period.. also some five star hotels in kochi

2) the radical organizations like SIMI are very much alive in almost all colleges and teaching institutions in Kerala., even the professional colleges.These cells are usually 3 to 5 people and highly motivated , having regular weekly meetings on Fridays .Lakshadweep has been a particular focus for SIMI , interestingly as a relatively safe haven for those operating in kerala .

Hindu organizations are mostly sub of VHP .. they are mostly in the know of activities of these organizations

The outfits like simi has immense money power and political influence in Kerala and a major Islamic political party is actively bankrolled by them

on a post note the new RBI governors decision to allow islamic banking could have very undesirable side effects ...

Dilbu
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 08 Oct 2013 12:55

^^
SIMI activists have changed their name and colours into NDF and Poular Front like LeT becoming JuD. Both LDF and UDF who comes to power in Kerala, especially congress led UDF, depend heavily on minority votes so no action is taken against them. I am pretty sure these oraganisations with their kind of activities would have been uprooted long back if they were based any where in central or north India. In fact any other state other than Kerala would have banned them outright.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Sachin » 09 Oct 2013 16:38

kit wrote:Hindu organizations are mostly sub of VHP .. they are mostly in the know of activities of these organization

There was a recent case when a ABVP worker was killed by Popular Front of India in Southern Kerala (Alleppey Dt?). The murderers were not college students, but the PFI it seems wanted to open a unit in a college. The unit of ABVP in the college of course protested it. The PFI college folks did not have the muscle power, and they brought in their big brothers.

So mainly the Hindu organisations against SDPI and PFI would be RSS & ABVP. I dont think even BJP is serious enough here. Some sensible commies have also started smelling the coffee, but again it would take many more years for a commie to come out of stupidity.

Dilbu wrote:Both LDF and UDF who comes to power in Kerala, especially congress led UDF, depend heavily on minority votes so no action is taken against them.

From what I could make out, with my main sources being social media and Keralite friends from various social and economical backgrounds. There is a feeling amongst people that the members of a particular community is punching way above its weight. The people being 100% literate and all that also come to know from news papers various events happening across the state. They too know who the culprits are as soon as this members of a particular community word is used ;). The majority in the state is yet to take up arms or ready to put up a fight. They retain their trust in the K.P. But at this point of time we cannot expect 100% literate intellectuals to follow up the foot steps of Jatts of UP, who mustered courage and put up a good fight.


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