Pakistan forces watch -arms sales, operations, doctrine, etc

[Nandan D]

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/meko/

MEKO CLASS STEALTH FRIGATES OFFERED TO PAKIS BY THE GERMANS,,,THESE FRIGATES LOOK DEADLY AND CAN GIVE A STIFF COMPETITION TO OUR PROJECT 17 A FRIGATES CHECK OUT

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

THE PROJECT U 214 SUBMARINES
MAN I HATE THE GERMANS,,,THEY ARE OFFERING THE TERRORISTS SUCH DEADLY CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS

Any money the Pakis spend on surface warships , is a waste, and for H&D purposes only...They are of little tactical value, as the IN is leagues ahead, and with all the planned acquisitions, will remain leagues ahead for the next 10-15 years to come...
The good news is that, it is money that could have been spent instead on subs, which are a much bigger problem as far as the IN is concerned.

[Johann]

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 007_pg11_6

Jordanian air force commander conferred with Hilal-i-Imtiaz

ISLAMABAD: Royal Jordanian Air Force Commander Major General Hussein A Shodash was decorated with the Hilal-i-Imtiaz (military) award on Tuesday.

An impressive investiture ceremony was held at the Ministry of Defence in this regard where State Defence Minister Ali Asjad Malhi conferred the Hilal-i-Imtiaz (military) upon the Jordanian commander on President Musharraf’s behalf. High ranking officials and dignitaries of both countries attended the ceremony.

Earlier, the distinguished guest called on Pakistan Navy Chief of Staff Vice Admiral Asif Humayun at the Naval Headquarters, Islamabad. He also called on Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman General Ehsanul Haq at the Joint Staff Headquarters, Rawalpindi. Shodash later visited the PAF Academy, Risalpur, where he was received by Vice Air Marshal Mohammad Hassan.

They remained together for some time and discussed matters of mutual interest. Shodash was also briefed about the training at the PAF Academy.

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=111924

ISLAMABAD: Major General Hussein A. Shodash, Commander Royal Jordanian Air Force visited Air Headquarters Islamabad on Monday where the distinguished guest was received by Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force.

On his arrival a smartly turned out contingent of Pakistan Air Force presented the Guard of Honour. Later he was introduced to Principal Staff Officers of Pakistan Air Force.

The distinguished guest paid homage to the martyrs of PAF by laying floral wreath on Martyrs’ Monument at Air Headquarters Islamabad.

He also called on Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force, in his office. Both the Air Chiefs remained together for some time and discussed matters of professional interest. They exchanged mementoes on the occasion. The distinguished guest also attended a briefing at Air Headquarters on the organization, role and functioning of Pakistan Air Force.

Later on, Major General Hussein A. Shodash, Commander Royal Jordanian Air Force, visited PAF Base, Minhas and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra, where he was received by Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Board Kamra and Air Commodore Muhammad Jamshed Khan Base Commander PAF Base, Minhas.

During his visit to the base, Major General Hussein A. Shodash, was given briefing about the working of the Base. Later on the distinguished guest called on Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra. The delegation was also briefed about various functions of PAC Kamra.

The delegation visited different areas of the factories. The distinguished guest took keen interest in aircraft manufacturing at Aircraft Manufacturing Factory Kamra, where the manufacturing facilities for JF-17 Thunder are being developed.

[Johann]

Now for something really interesting;

Ayesha Siddiqa pessimistic take on the PA's intended restructuring of commands.

It will be worth watching to see if this restructuring ultimately serves the PA as a fighting force at the operational level, or if it is more about maintaining political control.

While an additional layer of army command may not add much given the underlying culture in the PA and PAF, Siddiqa is probably wrong to dismiss the regional commands to being as toothless as the JCSC.

The JCSC is not in the PA chain of command, while the regional commands will be. If the Corps commanders can exercise authority over their division OCs, there's no reason that the regional commanders will not be able to do likewise with the Corps GOCs, although the rank gradient between them wont be as clear-cut.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2007_pg3_2

The Pakistan Army has decided to reorganise its command structure by establishing the central, northern and southern commands. Under his formula all existing nine corps of the army will fall under one of the three commands which will be headed by a three-star general.

...So, the newly introduced change might not necessarily be a quickly hatched plan but is a result of years of planning which was started during the tenure of the then army chief, General Jahangir Karamat. A restructuring cell was established in the GHQ to restructure the organisation by proposing changes which could bring greater efficiency. The cell was headed by a major general and was assigned the task of bringing about structural changes. But it is perhaps now that a decision to introduce the changes has been reached.

This is not to suggest that this change is not informed by higher politics. However, the restructuring might not necessarily be geared towards bringing greater efficiency. The basic premise of my argument draws upon the structural change itself. The new structure does not dismantle an old structure but creates a parallel command structure. The three new lieutenant generals with their staff will be in addition to the nine Corps Commanders and their staff and will aim to coordinate and plan for military-related activities falling under their particular command. This means that each command will have three corps under it.

If efficiency was the objective, it would have made better sense for the military high command to have proposed a joint-services command structure which could help coordinate the activities of the three services. The air force has its command structure and now the army has its own. Historically, inter-services communication has not been one of the strengths of the armed forces. For instance, the Kargil operation demonstrated yet again that the army plans on its own without bringing the other services on board. In fact, Kargil was one military operation in which even the military operations directorate of the army was brought into the loop much later.

A restructuring exercise has also been taking place next door in India and is being carried out under the rubric of Cold Start. Whatever one might feel about the efficacy of the strategy, the fact remains that it aims at introducing an inter-services planning culture in which the three services would operate together to carry out the military’s limited war plans. New Delhi is also struggling to establish and strengthen the integrated defence staff concept, which, if it takes off, would increase operational efficiency.

But an integrated culture does not seem to be the logic for the change in Pakistan army. The past does not give a lot of hope about the future as far as planning in the army is concerned. What could happen then is that the heads of the newly established three commands will carry out their plans and assessments independent of the nine Corps Commanders.

In any case, these three commanders will not command any troops and will only have their headquarters staff. This will make the commands not very different from the equally powerless Joint Staffs Headquarters which was never given the teeth to bite because its chairman did not command any troops. Consequently, the JCSC mainly played the role of a post-office or a clearinghouse between the three services which was dominated by the will of the larger service. The creation of the JCSC did not even change the political culture by reducing the power of the army chief.

Turf-warfare is also a reality of large bureaucratic organisations. Despite all the goodwill in the army about each other the fact is that all twelve Lt-Generals in the field will compete for greater say in planning and struggle for greater authority. There is also the possibility that the Corps Commanders and their staff will not necessarily be happy to part with critical information.

...the new command structure will run into problems if the responsibilities are not clearly distributed. A lack of clear planning will turn the new structure into a useless exercise to expand the organisation in order to create more jobs within the army. After all, it will not just be three additional three-star generals but more positions for major generals, brigadiers, colonels and so on. Such an exercise in bureaucratic expansion will certainly make the present army chief popular within his service.

[ParGha]

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/meko/

MEKO CLASS STEALTH FRIGATES OFFERED TO PAKIS BY THE GERMANS,,,THESE FRIGATES LOOK DEADLY AND CAN GIVE A STIFF COMPETITION TO OUR PROJECT 17 A FRIGATES CHECK OUT

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

THE PROJECT U 214 SUBMARINES
MAN I HATE THE GERMANS,,,THEY ARE OFFERING THE TERRORISTS SUCH DEADLY CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS

Any money the Pakis spend on surface warships , is a waste, and for H&D purposes only...They are of little tactical value, as the IN is leagues ahead, and with all the planned acquisitions, will remain leagues ahead for the next 10-15 years to come...
The good news is that, it is money that could have been spent instead on subs, which are a much bigger problem as far as the IN is concerned.

Even a World War II torpedo boat is a threat to the merchant marine... just because one hunter in a village owns a gun all the people and cattle aren't automatically saved from wild beasts. Rest assured that Paks will never engage Indian surface fleet heads-on, but that no reason to believe that they wont try to attack soft targets like harbours (daren't attack ports) and passing ships.

[Nayak]

PAF lost 11 aircraft to ‘bird strikes’ in 2006

[quote]
By our correspondent

Karachi

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF), in recent months, lost two fighter aircraft in the metropolis due to “bird strikeâ€

[mandrake]

Pakistan Reaches Out for Russian Arms

The Pakistani Defense Ministry is to make a decision by the end of the month on the purchase of Russian Mi-17 transport helicopters. Pakistan also has plans to get Chinese J-10 fighters with Russian engines. Pakistan is ready to renew direct military technical cooperation with Russia, to which India is opposed.
The purchasing department of the Pakistani Defense Ministry will announce the results of a tender for the delivery of ten Mi-17 transport helicopters this month. The ministry wants only that model of helicopter, and insists that the provider have certification an original producer. Only OAO OPK Oboronprom in Ulan-Ude fits that bill. That company provided Pakistan with three of the same helicopters last year. A Pakistani delegation will visit that enterprise in the coming weeks, and see the Kazan Helicopter Plant and the Klimov Plant in St. Petersburg.

Since India is a long-time Russian strategic military-technical partner, Russia has limited its sales to Pakistan to multipurpose equipment. In post-Soviet times, Russia has supplied about 50 Mi-8 helicopters and its modernized version the Mi-17. Now Pakistan is suggesting direct military technical ties. Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz commented that “Russia is a world power and we look at it as a global player. I suggest that global players should never make their relations with one country dependent on relations with another.â€

[Apu]

US gives Pakistan 18 Sniper spy pods for F-16s
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_g ... 045845.cms

WASHINGTON: The US government has awarded a contract to Lockheed Martin for 18 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP), a part of the new advanced block 52 F-16 aircraft programme for Pakistan.

With deliveries beginning in 2008, Sniper ATP's exceptional stability and superior imagery will allow Pakistan Air Force to perform intelligence, targeting, surveillance and reconnaissance missions from extended standoff ranges.

Pakistan is the eighth international customer to join the US Air Force and Air National Guard flying with Sniper ATP. The contract includes spares and training services. Terms of the contract were not disclosed.

"This sale culminates a two-year combined effort by Lockheed Martin's Missiles and Fire Control and Aeronautics businesses to upgrade the precision attack capability of one of our key allies," said Ken Fuhr, director of Fixed Wing Targeting Programmes at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control Monday.

"Sniper continues to demonstrate exceptional performance in meeting the requirements and expectations of the Warfighter."

Sniper incorporates a high-resolution, mid-wave third-generation forward-looking infrared (FLIR), a dual-mode laser permitting eye-safe operation in urban environments, a CCD-TV along with a laser spot tracker and a laser marker.

Sniper is fully compatible with the latest J-series munitions and precision-guided weaponry. Its superior detection ranges are vital to pilots, helping keep them out of range of threat air defences.

The Pakistan Air Force joins the UK Ministry of Defence; the Canadian Forces, the Royal Norwegian Air Force; the Polish Air and Air Defense Force; the Royal Air Force of Oman; the Belgium Defence and other international customers with its selection of the Sniper ATP.

Sniper ATP is currently flying on the US Air Force and multinational F-15s, F-16s, F-18s, A-10s, B-1s and the Harrier GR9. Sniper ATPs have accumulated tens of thousands of flight hours in thousands of sorties in support of Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom.

The Maryland Headquartered Lockheed Martin is engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration and sustaining of advanced technology systems.

[Kartik]

it'll be good for the IAF if the PAF signs up for the J-10s..the bloody GoI wont do anything till our neighbour goes and gives them a rude jolt up their musharraf..

[saptarishi]

shit man
whatz up with these govt babus,,continuously delaying the mrca rfp,,,pakistan now getting 36 advanced f-16 block 52 with sniper pods ( the worlds best externally carried laser pods) & aim-120c5

then they will get 36 j-10 with al-31fn thrust vectoring engines

followed by 250 jf-17,,,,what a mess it seems iaf will loose the combat edge it enjoyed over paf for 50 years for the first time,,,su-30mki,,seems the only hope as of now,,,

we shud throw the politicians out of the parliament and rather elect well educated doctors scientists,,,and engineers instead,,,of them,,,

[atma]

These are clearly India specific Offensive systems. Some more details of the Targeting pods:

Lockheed Martin Corp.'s Orlando missiles unit has received a multimillion-dollar contract to provide advanced weapons targeting systems to the country of Pakistan for its F-16 fighter jet fleet, the company said today.

The system is designed to allow F-16 air crews to perform intelligence-gathering, weapons-targeting, surveillance and reconnaissance missions from a standoff range outside enemy fire.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... ck=rss[url][/url]

[Rahul M]

IAF has always enjoyed a numerical advantage but rarely a technological one over the PAF.
we have usually lagged behind or tried to play catch up with them.
tech advantage is mostly the story of the 90's to now. mostly due to unkil's refusal to supply
f-16s.

[Juggi G]

'Space Ties with India, a Win-Win Situation' TOI

'Space Ties with India, a Win-Win Situation'
15 May, 2007 l 0626 hrs IST l PTI

WASHINGTON: Senior officials of the NASA and scientists have told American law makers that there is a lot of merit in increasing international cooperation with leading space powers like India that will only see a win-win situation which benefits the United States and the partnering country.

At the same time at least one senior Republican law maker has voiced scepticism of going about with cooperation with such countries like China and Pakistan on the grounds that "Tyrants and Dictatorships" are actually a threat to the values of western civilisation.

Stern said the US was ready to talk with any country who was on an acceptable list, who had a space programme and capability that could fly instruments or collaborate in missions.

"And I mean that to be a win-win -- certainly, Asian nations like the Japanese and the Indians, who are space powers, the European Space Agency, the individual European national space programmes, the Canadian Space Agency and others all come to mind," he said.

But senior Republican law maker Dana Rohrabacher of California argued that while he was all for cooperation between scientists from "Free" and "Democratic" countries, the United States would have to be "very, very cautious" in training scientists who will return to "dictatorships" and create a threat to western civilisation.

"Whether or not it's a bomb in Pakistan, I would hate to think that we had Pakistani scientists here and trained them how to make that bomb.

"I would hate to think that democratic countries like our own would use our science and so indiscriminately provide information that we provide the means for a dictatorship like China to set up a computer system that will spy on its own people and put believers in God in jail and be able to control the internet in their societies when they couldn't have done it without our help -- things such as that," Rohrabacher said.

"So I would just like to make sure that we balance off. Pure science isn't an end in and of itself. If it works with people who are tyrants and negative forces on this world, that science is not a good thing to transmit to those people," the senior Republican in the House Panel on Science and Technology said.

[parshuram]

IAF has always enjoyed a numerical advantage but rarely a technological one over the PAF.
we have usually lagged behind or tried to play catch up with them.
tech advantage is mostly the story of the 90's to now. mostly due to unkil's refusal to supply
f-16s.

this is a news for me, with us flyg MKI's it is a bit of negativity that seems to be creeping in ur mind .i guess last timePAF had a technical edge over us was in 1965 war .at par with 1971 . we might be losing numbers but tech edge still resides with us Also if we go for MIG 35 those havin OLL pods which are far superior then Sniper pods .

[JCage]

The MKIs only real weakness at this point of time, is the lack of a LRAAM.

That apart, a towed decoy would be good to have.

[Nayak]

PAF to get five C-130 cockpit kits

[quote]
By Our Correspondent


ISLAMABAD, May 20: The Pakistan Air Force will get five C-130 planes cockpit upgrade kits from the United States to improve operational capabilities of the ageing fleet of its main transport aircraft.

The United States Air Force has awarded the six million dollars contract to Rockwell Collins for supplying avionics kits to the PAF.

A spokesman for the PAF said that the air force would be getting the upgrade kits for its current fleet and added that it was one of components of the $75 million agreement with the US government that also included the sale of six C-130 aircraft to Pakistan.

The upgrade contract will be completed in a year and it is expected that the PAF will start getting the deliveries by the later part of 2008.

“The upgrade project would help us benefit from the technological advancements on C-130s,â€

[Amitabh]

Ouch.

UN troops "traded gold for guns"

[A Sharma]

JF-17 on AFM

[A Sharma]

Saab renegotiate Surveillance contract

With reference to the sale of Saab Airborne Surveillance Systems to Pakistan, the customer has for financial reasons and in accordance with the original contract, asked to renegotiate part of the contract concerning a reduction of the number of systems. Together with Saab terms and conditions then have been agreed, concerning a reduction. Saab and the Government of Pakistan continue as planned with the delivery of the system.

As a result of the renegotiation, the order value is decreased by approximately SEK 1.35 billion. Income will decrease proportionally to the volume change, but other commercial terms and conditions will remain unchanged. Concerning the fiscal year 2007 there is no impact on turnover or income as a result of the new conditions.

The Saab Airborne Surveillance System includes Saab 2000 turboprop aircraft equipped with Saab Microwave Systems airborne radar system ERIEYE and associated support equipment.

[sum]

Pakis are reducing a few systems in the SAAB AWACS?
Any ideas what could they be??

[vina]

JF-17 on AFM

It is actually quite interesting that the Pakis are ordering 4 IL-78s from Ukraine.. Wasnt the spate between Russia and Ukraine based on Antonov Vs ILyushin, with the Russians supporting IL and ditching the Ukranian Antonov ?

So even if the Ukranians supply the ILs from their existing stocks, how will the Pakis maintain and service it if the Russians don't supply spares ?..

What is the missing link here ?Russia upto its tricks again like selling the RD-93 engines to the Pakis via the Chinese ?

[Schär]

hm it semms that pakis buy not big material but many tehcnical parts !!!

[JCage]

IAF has always enjoyed a numerical advantage but rarely a technological one over the PAF.
we have usually lagged behind or tried to play catch up with them.
tech advantage is mostly the story of the 90's to now. mostly due to unkil's refusal to supply
f-16s.

The technological edge over the PAF is a reality now, and has existed for a decade and a half. Its widened to the extent that Pakistan cannot catch up, and for it to even attempt to do so would beggar it. Even now, the little it can acquire is based on being a beggar to America. If that spigot was turned off, it would be even worse for them. Lets take a look:

AAMs: India- thousands of R-73E's, AA-10s, RVV-AE (AA-12s). Pakistan is still stuck at AIM-9 level and obsolete Chinese junk. India is acquiring and building a range of AAMs - Pak will hoard its US and Chinese warshots.
And a bet, that the so called C-5s that are sold to the PAF are downgraded in terms of ECCM and ability, thanks to the Pak tendency to prostitute themselves to the PRC.

HMCS: MiG-21 Bisons, MiG-29s, Su-30's all have helmet sights. Pak? None.

Electronic warfare: All of India's frontline fighters have modern RWRs and CMDS. Upgraded fighters have internal self protection jammers. The MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27, Jaguar, MKI, Mirage 2000 all carry SPJs and are SPJ compatible.

Pak is getting EW jammers for its new F-16s. Its other fleet...less said the better.

Not to mention training, the IAF sticks to the 300 sorties/or 180 hrs per yr figure depending upon the platform, and has been exercising against the best AFs in the world, paying its own money.

The Paks manage to finagle an invite to Turkey and pat themselves over the back.

Frankly, in the coming years, once the MRCA deal comes through, the difference will be even starker. A modern AF vs one belonging to a third rate backwater run by a medieval dictator.

[Juggi G]

S Korean Minister arrives in India to discuss Pak-N Korea Ties

[quote]S Korean Minister arrives to discuss Pak-N Korea Ties
Manu Pubby
Posted online: Tuesday, May 29, 2007

NEW DELHI, MAY 28: The increasing transfer of missile technology to Pakistan by North Korea will be the focus of the first ever defence minister-level talks between India and South Korea scheduled to start in the Capital tomorrow. South Korean Defence Minister Kim Jang-Soo, who arrived today, will work on a ‘strategy to checkmate’ growing ‘missile cooperation’ in the region during talks with his Indian counterpart A K Antony.

While the ministerial talks will also be directed towards military cooperation and anti-terrorist collaborations, MoD sources made it clear that the focus of the meet will be to ‘counter increasing supply of missiles to Pakistan’ by North Korea. “The visit has to be seen in perspective with the North Korea-Pakistan equation,â€

[ShauryaT]

IAF has always enjoyed a numerical advantage but rarely a technological one over the PAF.
we have usually lagged behind or tried to play catch up with them.
tech advantage is mostly the story of the 90's to now. mostly due to unkil's refusal to supply
f-16s.

Frankly, in the coming years, once the MRCA deal comes through, the difference will be even starker. A modern AF vs one belonging to a third rate backwater run by a medieval dictator.

Granted. Though you have to admire their ability to make themselves a relevant prostitute enough times to get some gifts from Unkil.

The question is does Pakistan have enough today to thwart the aggressive defense role to deny the Indian military a quick walk over? To what degree will Pakistan increasingly adopt the Russian strategy of investing in its strategic forces to maintain a credible deterrent?
When Indian military strength is to such an overwhelming degree that any defense of Pakistan is just not credible, what are the likely strategies that the generals in Pakistan likely to adopt?

How will China play a role in all of this - by all surface accounts it increasingly looks like what the Pakistanis may loose due to an eventual downfall in its relationship with the west, may be covered by China - to continue its doctrine of aggressive defense?

If Pakistan is not able to sell its wares to China then, I guess the only other option would be to do "Super" Hezbollah type of strategy - where the difference between a professional army, militia and civilian will be thin - to guarantee asymmetrical warfare, if Pakistan is attacked.

[MN Kumar]

[quote="Juggi G"]S Korean Minister arrives in India to discuss Pak-N Korea Ties

[quote]S Korean Minister arrives to discuss Pak-N Korea Ties
Manu Pubby
Posted online: Tuesday, May 29, 2007

While the ministerial talks will also be directed towards military cooperation and anti-terrorist collaborations, MoD sources made it clear that the focus of the meet will be to ‘counter increasing supply of missiles to Pakistan’ by North Korea. “The visit has to be seen in perspective with the North Korea-Pakistan equation,â€

[Schär]

They give so much money only for high-tech equipment-Itmes and that only for 55F-16 hahahhahaahah

What can they do with this 55 effective F-16 against the number of Mirrage
SU-30Mki and Mig-29 I thin nothing or not ? ( not if their Pilots fly like the Arabs ..but we make expirience with them...!!! and I think they do not fly like the arabs or not ?)

you coments please ramm ramm regards to all in this forum

here are the F-16 Items with the costs:----->>>>>>>


Item 1: 36 New F-16 Block 50/52s - $3 billion

The package for Pakistan's new F-16s also includes:
36 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft with either the F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPEs) and APG-68(V)9 radars;
7 spare F100-PW-229 IPE or F110-GE-129 IPE engines;
7 spare APG-68(V)9 radar sets;
36 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
36 AN/ARC-238 SINCGARS radios with HAVE QUICK I/II;
36 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs) that fit along the aircraft's sides to give them extra range;
36 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals; DID has covered the tactical uses of MIDS-LVT Link 16 systems;
36 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation Systems;
36 APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
36 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites without Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-131 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-178 Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suites without DRFM;
1 Unit Level Trainer;

Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability.

The principal contractors will be:
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, Fort Worth, TX;
Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control, Dallas, TX;
BAE Advanced Systems Greenlawn, NY;
Boeing Corporation Seattle, WA;
Boeing Integrated Defense Systems: St Louis, MO; Long Beach, CA; San Diego, CA;
Raytheon Company: Lexington, MA; Goleta, CA;
Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ;
Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX;
Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD;
United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT; or
General Electric Aircraft Engines in Cincinnati, OH. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support and program management of the aircraft.

Item 2: Weapons for F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft - $650 Million

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of:
500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
12 AMRAAM training missiles
these have seeker warheads, but lack engines;
200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X;
240 LAU-129/A Launchers
these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles;
500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;
1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs;
800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs;
700 BLU-109 2000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse; and,
Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares, and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications, and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability will also be provided.

The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $650 million.

The principal contractors will be:
BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY;
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX;
Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX;
Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX; and,
Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support, program management, and modification of the aircraft.

Item 3: F-16A/B Mid-Life Update Modification Kits - $1.3 billion

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B Mid-Life Update (MLU) modification and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits consisting of:


APG-68(V)9 with Synthetic Aperture Radar or the APG-66(V)2 radar;
Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems;
Have Quick I/II Radios;
Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT);
SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pod capability;
Reconnaissance pod capability;
Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units (for training);

MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits;

21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM;
60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems;
1 Unit Level Trainer;
10 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets.

Also included are radars, modems, receivers, installation, avionics, spare and repair parts, support equipment, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, technical assistance, publications and technical documentation, system drawings, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, and other related logistics elements necessary for full program support.

The estimated cost is $1.3 billion.

According to the DSCA, Pakistan intends to purchase the MLU Program equipment "to enhance survivability, communications connectivity, and extend the useful life of its F-16A/B fighter aircraft. The modifications and upgrades in this proposed sale will permit Pakistan's F-16A/B squadron to operate safely and enhance Pakistan's conventional deterrent capability. Pakistan's air fleet can readily use these updates to enhance and extend the life of its aircraft."

The principal contractors will be:
BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY;
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX;
Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX;
Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX; and,
Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD.


Item 4: F-16A/B Engine Modifications & UP/STAR - $151 Million

The third contract involves Engine Modifications and Falcon UP/STAR Structural Upgrades as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $151 million.

More specifically, the Government of Pakistan has requested engine improvements and structural modifications to its F-16 fleet, which includes a possible sale of:
14 F100-PW-220E engines;
14 Falcon UP/STAR F-16 structural upgrade kits;
De-modification and preparation of 26 aircraft;
Support equipment;
Software development/integration;
Modification kits;
Spares, and repair parts;
Flight test instrumentation;
Publications and technical documentation;
Personnel training and training equipment;
U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to support the program.

The principal contractors will be:
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX; and,
United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT.


Potential Controversies

The DSCA has said that "Release of this system would not significantly reduce India's quantitative or qualitative military advantage". India disagrees and military experts in Delhi will likely note that the same equipment (GPS, targeting pods, bunker-busters) that could potentially find uses against al-Qaeda terrorists in Pakistan's "lawless frontier" could also be used in precision strikes on India's military facilities in the event of war.

The DSCA counters that release of the F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft to Pakistan "will neither affect the regional balance of power nor introduce a new technology as this level of capability or higher already exists in other countries in the region". India does operate more advanced SU-30MKI aircraft with R-77 "AMRAAMski" missiles, advanced avionics, et. al.; these are superior in range, armament, and maneuverability to Pakistan's F-16s and will remain so. Meanwhile, India's $7-10 billion MRCA competition is certain to introduce 125-200 aircraft that are certain to be more advanced than the F-16 Block 50/52.

The U.S. DSCA adds in its submission to Congress that "The modification of the engines and Falcon UP/STAR structural updates will provide capable F-16s that can be used for close air support in ongoing operations contributing to the GWOT." The DSCA also cites the June 2004 designation of Pakistan as a Major Non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization Ally in its submission. The British commander of NATO's ISAF force in Southern Afghanistan sees Pakistan's role in a rather different light, however; he recently noted that al-Qaeda in Afghanistan is still run out of Pakistan (specifically Quetta), with Pakistani knowledge and even support from Islamist elements in its security apparatus. Ah, the dynamics of counter-insurgency in tribal societies. Pakistan angrily denies this, of course.

India's objections to this sale have been muted thus far, and phrased carefully to emphasize their effect on India-Pakistan ties rather than India-U.S. ties. Meanwhile, President Bush's personal diplomacy approach has fostered a strong relationship with Gen. Musharraf that is inclined to view such requests favourably as part of the U.S.A.'s 3-corner balancing act in the region. Barring unusual circumstances, therefore, it's reasonable to expect this sale to go through with little more than a concerned speech or two in Congress.

[Nandan D]

IAF has always enjoyed a numerical advantage but rarely a technological one over the PAF.
we have usually lagged behind or tried to play catch up with them.
tech advantage is mostly the story of the 90's to now. mostly due to unkil's refusal to supply
f-16s.

The technological edge over the PAF is a reality now, and has existed for a decade and a half. Its widened to the extent that Pakistan cannot catch up, and for it to even attempt to do so would beggar it. .

I agree with the rest of your assesment but not this one point :
An attempt to bridge the gap would NOT "beggar it"( ), because they aren't *paying* for these changes...

F-16s, AAMRAAMs, GPS bombs all come for free...from unkil.
They would go bankrupt, *if* they had to pay for it.

India will get the Phalcon before Pakis get any F-16 (i would think) so when that happens the biggest gap between the PAF and IAF would be IAFs
(1) Superior aircraft
(2) BVR capability,
(3) AEW and
(4)better training (well more sorties at least).

But all will be rapidly deteriorated in the coming years by
(1) New F-16s (no movement on MRCA will cause problems)
(2) AMRAAM
(3) SAAB deal.
(4) Newer planes and spares means more sorties, and more live fire exercises.

Will the PAF be better or the IAF ? Who knows, but things will get more even than they have been in the last 15 years.

[Raman]

Nandan,

The platforms are one part of the puzzle. What is not as obvious is the huge leaps made in force-multiplication through EW and datalinking. The fleet-wide datalinking project (already underway) has huge implications. Add in Phalcon (which is essentially AWACS + Rivet Joint), and every IAF platform will have access to the info sniffed out by the Phalcons and MKIs.

[JCage]

I agree with the rest of your assesment but not this one point :
An attempt to bridge the gap would NOT "beggar it"( ), because they aren't *paying* for these changes...

F-16s, AAMRAAMs, GPS bombs all come for free...from unkil.
They would go bankrupt, *if* they had to pay for it.

No buffet lasts forever. The point is that despite the F-16s there will be a substantial gap between the IAF and the PAF, especially if the useless GOI gets off its butt and fast tracks the MRCA. And to bridge this gap, Pak will have to look beyond handouts- that they wont is obvious, but if they were to try it, they'd go broke.

[A Sharma]

PAF jet crashes near Peshawar

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Air Force (PAF) FT-6 jet has been crashed near Peshawar on Friday, however both the pilots ejected safely.

PAF spokesman has confirmed the crash, which was happened seven kilometers away from Peshawar.

The crash was apparently happened due to technical fault. Both the pilots were managed to eject form the plane. The jet was on a routine training flight, he added.

Air Headquarters has ordered a detail enquiry of the incident.

[Austin]

The FC-1 -or- A Tale Of An Inferior Fighter Plane (Part 1)

The FC-1 -or- A Tale Of An Inferior Fighter Plane (Part 2)

[Johann]

Shaurya,

- Most of the PAF's fleet is not American, nor will it be.

They cant really afford to keep their Mirage fleet or their older Chinese aircraft in the state of readiness and reliability needed.

A great deal depends on the JF-17, whose capbilities remain uncertain.

- The PAF's greatest weakness remains unresolved - its lack of coordination with the PA.

+ It seems that PAF in the event of hostilities will have two-tiered air force; one that disperses and becomes a kind of guerilla air force of the PRC/DPRK/DRV air force, and a much smaller high-tech core that will attempt to defend its bases while striking the IAF's assets in an attempt to divide its energies.

This will not be sufficient I think to prevent the IAF from supporting the IA or carrying out its own punitive strikes as part of Cold Start.

The only PAF hope is that they can hit something so high-profile that public and media pressure forces the GOI to divert resources...IOW the equivalent of Hezb'allahs rockets on Haifa.

However, the PAF will not risk its best goodies over Indian airspace unless its included in the planning well in advance, and that is not something the PA is prone to doing.

[Singha]

one that disperses and becomes a kind of guerilla air force of the PRC/DPRK/DRV air force,

good one. but can Mirage-III, Mig19 and J-7 operate like harrier vstols..no. their optempo will perhaps be one sortie a day from these dispersed bases before the planes fall apart or supplies run out to keep them flying. the airframes will survive a short war though coz IAF cant spare resources to go hunt a couple of Q5 or J7 sitting in the desert somewhere.

Its ok for IAF to meet and crush the high tech core of PAF you mentioned it
will have most psyops impact also.

[Johann]

Singha,

The closest analogy to cold start conditions might be the battle for air superiority over Lebanon in 1982; although it involved pitting the Syrian AF against the IDF/AF, both sides found it convenient to restrict the battle to Lebanese airspace; no engagements in Syrian or Israeli airspace.

One could see a similar situation evolve over some Pakistani controlled area where the IA is conducting punitive operations.

The big decision for the PAF would be what its willing to commit; do they leave the PA to its own devices, or do they fight it out for at least local air parity.

The weakness of PA-PAF coordination, the PAF's limited high tech assets etc suggest that the more the IAF is willing to commit early on, the less likely the PAF is to come out and pay.

[shiv]

Pakis are getting ten of these fast attack craft from Turkey. Speed > 47kts. Armed with 4 Harpoons and a 30 mm gun

http://www.yonca-onuk.com/mrtp_33.htm

They will be used to inject terrorists onto Indian shores and to smuggle in arms and exploives.

[mandrake]

Lets not deillusion ourselves, I find SOc's article quite amusing when he compared f17 with MKI, the fact is that jf17 is needed in PAF, China is making progress like crazy backed up by strong funding, if we dont pursuit our MCA there is no reason not to believe that there will be J-xx with PAF by 2018.

[Schär]

I have read that the Paki Alkhalid do not can fire ATGM and that is statmante from the CHeef of HIT.

[arun]

X Post.

RATS deserting a sinking ship .

The Pakistani Navy ships involved are PNS Moawin and PNS Babur (Link) :

11 Pakistani sailors ditch crew, go AWOL on goodwill visit to Japan

[JaiS]

Pakistan has top-of-the-line US arms

WASHINGTON: The defence relationship between Pakistan and the US has been described as “robustâ€

[sum]

pretty lethal goods the pakis have procured for themselves there!!!!!!