China Military Watch

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

China Military Watch

Postby abhischekcc » 13 Feb 2007 13:09

I am starting this thread with the purpose of documenting all information about the Chinese military.

We can add data and articles which deal with it under the following sub heads:

1. Conventional hardware (type & count - like the Pak forces watch)
2. Nuclear forces and doctrine
3. Military doctrine and philosophy
4. RBC warfare
5. Military bases (Important)
6. Relations with other countries

Another sub-reason I am starting this thread is that I am planning to write a longish article on Chinese Strategic Mindset. I am hoping to do a very long article (10k to 20k), so I am hoping that the discussion will generate enough provocative question, ideas and sources for me to chew on.

(I'll post my own sources later).

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 14 Feb 2007 13:19

Hmmm... no activity.

Looks like people are still to frazzled by my last thread - PM is an agent. 8)

Anyway, I am reading a PDF on China's BMD response right now, so I promise I'll be able post something today

Not much work will get done today :mrgreen:

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1832
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Postby SRoy » 14 Feb 2007 13:51

abhischekcc wrote:Hmmm... no activity.

Looks like people are still to frazzled by my last thread - PM is an agent. 8)

Anyway, I am reading a PDF on China's BMD response right now, so I promise I'll be able post something today

Not much work will get done today :mrgreen:

Abhishek,

Isn't the MILTECH forum more appropriate for this thread? JMT

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 14 Feb 2007 14:03

I am hoping to generate a strategic discussion, not primarily a hardware count, although that is welcome too.

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 14 Feb 2007 14:13

Abhishek,

Thanks for taking up the suggestion to start a China military watch thread.

There is already a PRC thread on this forum to look at the strategic level of Chinese internal and external affairs.

What the forum really needs is a thread that would look at the military level - capabilities, doctrine, training, operations, defence diplomacy, etc.

That would belong on the mil forum, which can and should be about more than just hardware.

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 14 Feb 2007 14:15

PLA delegation visits Chinese peacekeepers in Congo (Kinshasa)
PLA Daily
13 feb. 07 - 07.59h

Major General Chang Guixiang, deputy chief of staff of the Lanzhou Military Area Command, led a PLA delegation to visit all the Chinese peacekeepers in the Congo (Kinshasa). On February 8, the delegation arrived at Bukavu, South Kivu in the Congo (Kinshasa) to extend greetings and appreciation to the 6th batch of the Chinese peacekeepers stationed there.

Chang Guixiang first conveyed the important speech made by President Hu Jintao when he visited the officers and men of the Chinese peacekeepers in Liberia. He then conveyed the cordial concern and best regards of the beloved ones of the motherland to all the Chinese peacekeepers in the Congo (Kinshasa), and wished them a happy Chinese Lunar New Year.

The delegation also paid courtesy calls to the peacekeepers sent out by Pakistan and Uruguay, and held consultations and exchanged views with the supreme executive officer of the Bukavu Mission Area of the UN Special Mission in the Congo (Kinshasa).

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 14 Feb 2007 14:25

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007- ... 688853.htm

Chinese defense ministry hosts new year reception, vowing all-round military ties

2007-02-02 21:46:10

BEIJING, Feb. 2 (Xinhua) -- Chinese Defense Ministry on Friday evening hosted a new year's reception for over 200 foreign military attaches and their wives from nearly 80 countries, vowing to fully advance military ties with other countries.

Chinese New Year's Day by lunar calendar, known as the Spring Festival, falls on Feb. 18 this year.

In his toast, Zhang Bangdong, director of the Foreign Affairs Office of the ministry, briefed the guests on the achievements that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) has scored in its exchanges and cooperation with foreign armed forces in 2006.

Zhang also extended appreciation to foreign military attaches for their efforts to promote military ties with China.

"In 2007, the PLA will enhance military-to-military cooperation, and fully advance ties with other armed forces," he said.

Nigerian Defense Attache Issaka Labo delivered a toast on behalf of the foreign military attaches.

"I hope we can build on the successes of 2006 to make great strides forward in the coming year... I believe this will be an exciting year for our military relationships," said Labo, dean of the foreign military attache corps in Beijing.

Chinese Defense Minister, Vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission (CMC) and State Councilor Cao Gangchuan and six other CMC members, namely Chief of the PLA General Staff Liang Guanglie, Director of the PLA General Political Department Li Jinai, Director of the PLA General Logistics Department Liao Xilong, Director of the PLA General Armament Department Chen Bingde, Commander of the PLA Air Force Qiao Qingchen and Commander of the PLA Second Artillery Force Jing Zhiyuan, attended the reception.

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 14 Feb 2007 14:26

PLA HOLDS HIGH-LEVEL SEMINAR ON DEVELOPING INFORMATIZED TRAINING
By Joseph E. Lin

Over one hundred flag and field-grade officers participated in a ten-day conference on informatized military training. The "All-Army Special Topic Group Training in Military Training Under Informatized Conditions" conference was held at the National Defense University and lasted from January 8-17 (Xinhua, January 17). During the conference, the officers discussed methods and strategies to incorporate informationization into military training. At the conclusion of the conference, the participants released a five-point consensus on how best to transform the military training of the People's Liberation Army (PLA): 1) Develop informatized armed forces and warfighting strategies to win informatized warfare; 2) Emphasize training in complex electromagnetic environments and incorporate training in such environments into standard training procedures; 3) With joint training and operations as the foundation, establish the ability to conduct operations in informatized wars as the objective of transformation; 4) Create a "scientific system of military training under informatized conditionsâ€

vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Postby vsudhir » 14 Feb 2007 15:28

A china military watch thread is a good idea, seems like.

At this rate, I next expect an 'unkil military watch' thread next.... :twisted:

kshirin
BRFite
Posts: 384
Joined: 18 Sep 2006 19:45

Postby kshirin » 14 Feb 2007 21:41

A few years ago when I dabbled in this subject I was amazed by profusion of excellent translated into English writing on RMA, EW and strategic-military affairs by Chinese military men and others, and paucity of the same on our side. Can someone explain why?

NDU Washington goes into this subject in some depth.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 15 Feb 2007 12:36

Evolution of the concept of 'Middle Kingdom' in China

http://countrystudies.us/china/3.htm

For centuries virtually all the foreigners that Chinese rulers saw came from the less developed societies along their land borders. This circumstance conditioned the Chinese view of the outside world. The Chinese saw their domain as the self-sufficient center of the universe and derived from this image the traditional (and still used) Chinese name for their country--Zhongguo, literally, Middle Kingdom or Central Nation. China saw itself surrounded on all sides by so-called barbarian peoples whose cultures were demonstrably inferior by Chinese standards. This China-centered ("sinocentric") view of the world was still undisturbed in the nineteenth century, at the time of the first serious confrontation with the West.China had taken it for granted that its relations with Europeans would be conducted according to the tributary system that had evolved over the centuries between the emperor and representatives of the lesser states on China's borders as well as between the emperor and some earlier European visitors. :mrgreen: But by the mid-nineteenth century, humiliated militarily by superior Western weaponry and technology and faced with imminent territorial dismemberment, China began to reassess its position with respect to Western civilization. By 1911 the two-millennia-old dynastic system of imperial government was brought down by its inability to make this adjustment successfully.


Two points emerge from this quotation.
One, the perception that China has of other cultures as being inferior to itself and their being natural tributaries to China.
Second, when this world view was challenged, it brought down the edifice of Chinese culture - the emperor.

An important point that emerge from the second one is that one of the factors lending legitimacy to the CCP is its ability to successfully maintain the traditional self image of China among its own people. That, indeed, is the impression that we get from the Chinese posters on the forum. It is not enough for (some of) them to praise China - it is also important to show India in the mud. India's relative lack of progress vis-a-vis China, in the material sphere, is an important image reassuring the Chinese of their Middle Kingdom status. Note that this is something they cannot do with any of their other rivals - Korea, Japan, US and Russia.

Something to chew on.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Postby svinayak » 15 Feb 2007 17:28

abhischekcc wrote:
Two points emerge from this quotation.
One, the perception that China has of other cultures as being inferior to itself and their being natural tributaries to China.
Second, when this world view was challenged, it brought down the edifice of Chinese culture - the emperor.

An important point that emerge from the second one is that one of the factors lending legitimacy to the CCP is its ability to successfully maintain the traditional self image of China among its own people.
Something to chew on.


Every culture has its own way to view the world. Some cultures see what is visual (material) more than intellectual. Arab culture is based on what they see. They get impressed with big things, nice things etc. Military display impresses them very much.

Chinese see the overall culture of outsiders to make the judgment. The legitimacy of its political center depends on maintaining a superiority to other countries.
Perception of India has changed due to growth of Indian economy in the last 10 years. It has been noticed by the Arabs and the Chinese.

Sri K
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 37
Joined: 12 May 2005 01:06
Location: Ulhasnagar Sindhi Association

Postby Sri K » 16 Feb 2007 05:44

abhischekcc wrote:Two points emerge from this quotation.
One, the perception that China has of other cultures as being inferior to itself and their being natural tributaries to China.
Second, when this world view was challenged, it brought down the edifice of Chinese culture - the emperor.

An important point that emerge from the second one is that one of the factors lending legitimacy to the CCP is its ability to successfully maintain the traditional self image of China among its own people. That, indeed, is the impression that we get from the Chinese posters on the forum. It is not enough for (some of) them to praise China - it is also important to show India in the mud. India's relative lack of progress vis-a-vis China, in the material sphere, is an important image reassuring the Chinese of their Middle Kingdom status. Note that this is something they cannot do with any of their other rivals - Korea, Japan, US and Russia.

Something to chew on.


Just as the Packees have their H&D, the Chinese have their concept of "face." I think, the Chinese leadership will suffer a major loss of face if India, god forbid, is seen to be doing just as well if not better than China. Maybe our in-house piskologists can commission a study on the Chinese concept of face and how their vanity can be taken advantage of. A good example of how you can exploit Chinese ego is the following:

Some time ago (I don't remember when), the Burmese king sent a mission to China with tributes, because that's what China expects from barbarians. Usually, the foreign emissaries would present gifts to the Son of Heaven and he in turn would present the foreigners with gifts. The problem was, the Burmese delegation had brought utter crap. The Chinese decided the only way to save face was to accept the gift politely and in return give gifts of much greater value, as befits the greater status of the Middle Kingdom. The Burmese then thought "Cool! We can bring them cheap trinkets, and go home with really good stuff!" So the Burmese asked the Chinese whether they could send a delegation to China every year! Realizing the unequal nature of the exchange the Chinese demurred and told the Burmese that once every five years would be good enough. :rotfl:

vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2165
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Postby vivek_ahuja » 17 Feb 2007 22:52

Some time ago (I don't remember when), the Burmese king sent a mission to China with tributes, because that's what China expects from barbarians. Usually, the foreign emissaries would present gifts to the Son of Heaven and he in turn would present the foreigners with gifts. The problem was, the Burmese delegation had brought utter crap. The Chinese decided the only way to save face was to accept the gift politely and in return give gifts of much greater value, as befits the greater status of the Middle Kingdom. The Burmese then thought "Cool! We can bring them cheap trinkets, and go home with really good stuff!" So the Burmese asked the Chinese whether they could send a delegation to China every year! Realizing the unequal nature of the exchange the Chinese demurred and told the Burmese that once every five years would be good enough.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2165
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Postby vivek_ahuja » 17 Feb 2007 22:58

On a serious note,

remember the time when our comrades from the north were making the bhai-bhai noises in the late 50s early 60s, and then they crashed to door of our home in 62 to come and say "hi brother"?

is it just me or the recent gestures of confidence building and friendhip (i dare say) etc are somewhat reminiscent of that situation.

Are we looking at a resurgence of that same situation where the chinese feel that we are genuinely threatning thier economic growth with a corresponding growth on our side of the himalayas or are they really looking for freindship and cooperation?
IMHO this is the calm before the storm. we btter watch out.
or am i being paranoid?

Tilak
BRFite
Posts: 733
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 20:19
Location: Old Lal Masjid @BRFATA (*Renovation*)

Postby Tilak » 18 Feb 2007 03:26

Cyber officials: Chinese hackers attack 'anything and everything'
BY Josh Rogin
Published on Feb. 13, 2007

[quote]NORFOLK, Va. -- At the Naval Network Warfare Command here, U.S. cyber defenders track and investigate hundreds of suspicious events each day. But the predominant threat comes from Chinese hackers, who are constantly waging all-out warfare against Defense Department networks, Netwarcom officials said.

Attacks coming from China, probably with government support, far outstrip other attackers in terms of volume, proficiency and sophistication, said a senior Netwarcom official, who spoke to reporters on background Feb 12. The conflict has reached the level of a campaign-style, force-on-force engagement, he said.

“They will exploit anything and everything,â€

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 22 Feb 2007 05:48

CHINA BRIEF
Volume 7, Issue 4 (February 21, 2007)

U.S. AND JAPAN’S ISLAND CHAIN POLICIES CRITICAL TO TAIWAN’S DEFENSE

By Joseph E. Lin


In a recent report assessing the future missions of the four Keelung (Kidd) class destroyers that were recently commissioned into the Taiwanese Navy, Chien-tuan K’o chi (Defense Technology Monthly) senior editor Chang Li-teh argued that understanding U.S. and Japanese military policies toward Japan’s island chain is critical for Taiwanese military planners.

In the event of a conflict across the Taiwan Strait, whether Chinese ships and aircraft are permitted to pass through the waters will heavily influence the operations undertaken by the Taiwanese military.

The island chain that extends southward from Japan’s Ryukyu Islands includes a significant portion of the East China Sea, and if left open for the Chinese navy to pass through, would significantly stretch the capabilities of Taiwan’s four naval task forces, each of which depends upon the Keelung-class destroyer to provide anti-air coverage.

The ideal scenario would of course be an intervention by U.S. forces that consists of engaging all PLA ships and aircraft, though Chang notes that a third possibility in which Japan’s territorial waters and its exclusive economic zones would be prohibited from entrance by either side would be beneficial to the Taiwanese navy as well. With the northern waters sealed off from intrusions by Chinese surface vessels, Taiwan’s naval fleets operating on its eastern coast would only need to be concerned with threats from enemy submarines.

Given the distinct operational challenges of each scenario, there is a pressing need for Taiwanese military planners to increase the current levels of dialogue with their U.S. and Japanese counterparts so as to adequately prepare for the most likely situation.




CHINESE SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES: “LESSONS LEARNEDâ€

Sanjay M
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4892
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 14:57

Postby Sanjay M » 28 Feb 2007 10:30

In yet another glorious breakthrough for the glorious people's republic, as sklow will confirm, the glorious animal researchers have come up with a glorious way to implant electrodes in the brain of a pigeon, to control its flight and make it more patriotic:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... geon.reut/

I can only assume that this will lead to human experimentation to produce the ideal chinese citizen -- one that can be robotically controlled with electrodes. How glorious.

But seriously, I wonder if this could be a useful tool in anti-terrorism/anti-guerrilla warfare?

A small bird armed with a few ounces of high-explosives or neuro-toxin could blow a party of guerrilla infiltrators to hell. Something to think about.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63582
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Postby Singha » 28 Feb 2007 13:00

but unless you have a video link to what the animal is seeing, how do you control the bird outside LOS ? mystics and 'leaders' at various times have claimed to see what animals and other humans see. perhaps this datalink is the next frontier - videopathy and telepathy. totally jamproof too unless you introduce a couple of Pakis with a playboy mag as a standoff jammer in the region , the whole EM spectrum will be polluted with their white noise.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 28 Feb 2007 13:44

Singha, Sanjay: Those comments belong in the humour thread, or perhaps a chini version of the Youm-e-ghulami thread. :D

But seriously. I don't think human experiments have not been done in China. They certainly have been done in US.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 28 Feb 2007 13:55

Here is the link on the most important period of China's historical development: The Warring States period.

The Hundred Schools of Thought
The Spring and Autumn and Warring States periods, though marked by disunity and civil strife, witnessed an unprecedented era of cultural prosperity--the "golden age" of China. The atmosphere of reform and new ideas was attributed to the struggle for survival among warring regional lords who competed in building strong and loyal armies and in increasing economic production to ensure a broader base for tax collection. To effect these economic, military, and cultural developments, the regional lords needed ever-increasing numbers of skilled, literate officials and teachers, the recruitment of whom was based on merit. Also during this time, commerce was stimulated through the introduction of coinage and technological improvements. Iron came into general use, making possible not only the forging of weapons of war but also the manufacture of farm implements. Public works on a grand scale--such as flood control, irrigation projects, and canal digging--were executed. Enormous walls were built around cities and along the broad stretches of the northern frontier.


So many different philosophies developed during the late Spring and Autumn and early Warring States periods that the era is often known as that of the Hundred Schools of Thought.


The body of thought that had the most enduring effect on subsequent Chinese life was that of the School of Literati (ru), often called the Confucian school in the West.
.
.
.
Confucius (551-479 B.C.), also called Kong Zi, or Master Kong, looked to the early days of Zhou rule for an ideal social and political order. He believed that the only way such a system could be made to work properly was for each person to act according to prescribed relationships. "Let the ruler be a ruler and the subject a subject," he said, but he added that to rule properly a king must be virtuous. To Confucius, the functions of government and social stratification were facts of life to be sustained by ethical values.


Mencius (372-289 B.C.), or Meng Zi, was a Confucian disciple who made major contributions to the humanism of Confucian thought. Mencius declared that man was by nature good. He expostulated the idea that a ruler could not govern without the people's tacit consent and that the penalty for unpopular, despotic rule was the loss of the "mandate of heaven."
The "mandate of heaven" is the underlying feature from which the various rulers of China have traditionally derived their legitimacy, CCP included.

Diametrically opposed to Mencius, for example, was the interpretation of Xun Zi (ca. 300-237 B.C.), another Confucian follower. Xun Zi preached that man is innately selfish and evil and that goodness is attainable only through education and conduct befitting one's status. He also argued that the best government is one based on authoritarian control, not ethical or moral persuasion.
So, the authoritarian streak in Chinese government derives from the Xun Zi's teachings.
Perhaps, the dual nature of Chinese governance derives from the dual nature of the philosophies of China - the CCP works for the greater prosperity of China, as well as being the largest killer of prisoners in the world, beating off stiff competition from the likes of Saudi Arabia and US.

Sanjay M
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4892
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 14:57

Postby Sanjay M » 04 Mar 2007 10:29

China Military Budget to Rise 17.8%

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/ ... ending.php

Tilak
BRFite
Posts: 733
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 20:19
Location: Old Lal Masjid @BRFATA (*Renovation*)

Postby Tilak » 04 Mar 2007 20:53

China expands sub fleet
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

China's military is engaged in a major buildup of submarines that includes five new strategic nuclear-missile boats and several advanced nuclear-powered attack submarines, according to the Office of Naval Intelligence.

The new nuclear-powered missile submarines (SSBNs), identified as Type 094s, will be outfitted with new 5,000-mile range JL-2 missiles that "will provide China with a modern and robust sea-based nuclear deterrent force," the ONI stated in report made up of written answers to questions on the Chinese submarine buildup.

The ONI report was first disclosed to Sea Power magazine, and a copy was obtained by The Washington Times. It was the first time the Pentagon has identified the number of new Chinese strategic submarines under construction.

The five new missile submarines will "provide more redundancy and capacity for a near-continuous at-sea SSBN presence," the ONI said, which noted that sea trials for some of the submarines are under way and the first deployments could begin as early as next year.

The buildup is raising new concerns among senior Pentagon planners already worried by Beijing's broader strategic nuclear-forces buildup, which also includes several new long-range land-based nuclear missiles and a land-attack cruise missile similar to the Tomahawk.

"This is a troubling development," Richard Fisher, a specialist on the Chinese military with the private International Assessment and Strategy Center, said of the submarine buildup.

The five missile submarines, each equipped with 12 JL-2 missiles, shows that China is working to achieve a force of 120 long-range nuclear missiles over the next decade, about half of them to be carried on the submarines, Mr. Fisher said. The other half would be the 60 land-based DF-31 missiles that current deployment rates will give China by then, he said.

The 120 missiles also could have multiple-warheads, since China is known to have acquired all the needed technology from the U.S. during the 1990s.


Retired Vice Adm. Michael McConnell, commenting at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Tuesday, said China's nuclear missiles pose a threat.

"It's a matter of they're building their military, in my view, to reach some state of parity with the United States," said Mr. McConnell, the new director of national intelligence. "So they're a threat today, they would become an increasing threat over time."
Little is known about China's nuclear forces and efforts by Pentagon officials to engage Chinese military leaders about their strategic weapons and forces has not been successful. China's government has insisted its current modernization is part of a peaceful development, but the contrasting strategic nuclear-forces buildup is worrying, defense officials said.

Chinese Gen. Zhu Chenghu told reporters in 2005 that China would attack U.S. cities with nuclear weapons in response to any conventionally armed U.S. missile strikes against China during a conflict over Taiwan. Years earlier, Gen. Xiong Guangkai threatened to use nuclear weapons against Los Angeles if the U.S. helped Taiwan defend against a Chinese invasion of the island.

The missile-submarine buildup would provide Beijing with a major upgrade on current capabilities. In 1983, China built one Xia-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, reportedly with 12 1,000-mile range JL-1 missiles. But that solitary submarine has only twice test-fired its missiles and never ventured beyond China's regional waters.

"Although the range of the JL-1 limits the Xia's utility as a deterrent platform, targets throughout the region, including U.S. military facilities, could be targeted with the JL-1 from launch points inside traditional Chinese navy operating areas," the ONI said.

On China's new attack submarine, the ONI stated that China already has launched and is performing sea trials on an unspecified number of Type 093 nuclear-powered attack submarines. Published reports in China have said two Type 093 attack submarines are deployed and use "foreign technologies" and advanced anti-ship missiles and torpedoes.

The new advances are part of China's efforts to bolster its anti-ship weapons to permit strikes at greater ranges from the Chinese coast than its current diesel-powered submarine force offers, the ONI said. China currently is upgrading its current force of about 55 attack submarines -- most of them easy-to-track diesel boats -- with more-advanced and harder-to-track vessels, including Russian-made Kilos, and its own Song- and Yuan-class submarines.
"Each of these submarine classes, which are quiet platforms with anti-ship cruise missiles, is an integral part of China's regional anti-access strategy," ONI said. "The quieting incorporated into these submarines is required for successful operations in the open ocean operating areas which could facilitate the [Chinese navy's] wartime mission of keeping enemy combatants outside of strike range of the theater of operation."
A Song-class submarine surfaced undetected within five miles, well within firing range, of the aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk in October.
The ONI stated that China's maritime strategy is focused on blocking U.S. or Japanese intervention in a future conflict over Taiwan. To that end, Beijing has begun equipping its medium- and short-range ballistic missiles based on shore, hundreds of which are deployed across the Taiwan Strait from the island that the communist regime views as a renegade province, with maneuvering warheads.

These radar-guided or heat-seeking weapons "provide the accuracy necessary to attack a ship at sea," ONI said.
But China's rise in international trade and commerce, plus its growing dependence on imported foreign oil, also has expanded Beijing's maritime strategy from a mostly submarine force to one of building surface ships to "defend sea lines of communication" (SLOCs), because protecting sea-lanes with submarines is difficult.
ONI also said that in addition to new destroyers, "by 2020, China is likely to operate an aircraft carrier, the initial unit of which may be the refurbished ex-Varyag, acquired from Ukraine in 2000, to further support SLOC protection."

pradeepe
BRFite
Posts: 741
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 20:46
Location: Our culture is different and we cannot live together - who said that?

Postby pradeepe » 04 Mar 2007 22:06

Sanjay M wrote:China Military Budget to Rise 17.8%

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/ ... ending.php


We can safely assume it atleast 2X that. US of course is the top dog here. I think PLA would rank in at #2 right after the US. Couple of suprises in the below table (for me atleast) -

UK bats at #2 with 65B :shock: For an island no longer in need of protecting its overseas assets? Or is it still?

Russia a paltry 32B. India at #11, just easing along.

wiki link

Also Mil spending as % of GDP:

Image

Johann
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2075
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Johann » 05 Mar 2007 00:39

Pradeep, the consensus is that PRC total defence spending is actually 3 x the official budget, since foreign arms purchases and the PAP funding come from the civil accounts.

As far as the UK goes, current defence spending is about 2.3% of its Gross Domestic Product - that is lower than Bulgaria! The $65b is a reflection of the size of the national economy. But as a % of GDP defence spending has basically halved since the end of the Cold War when it peaked at 4.4%

One thing to keep in mind is how much of a country's defence budget is spent on acquisition, R&D & training [ie capability building] vs. operations vs. personnel costs - salaries, housing, health, perks, etc vs. the cost of ONG, and what the rates of inflation are.

The real trick is working out what proportion much of these massive annual increases to the PLA budget is being spent on capability building, as opposed to the increased cost of keeping the PLA loyal while the CPC enriches itself, and paying for the signficantly increased cost of fuel.

pradeepe
BRFite
Posts: 741
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 20:46
Location: Our culture is different and we cannot live together - who said that?

Postby pradeepe » 05 Mar 2007 09:58

Ah thanks! So PLA stands at a whopping 135B. Serious moolah. Must be a lot of capital intensive acquisitions. Its personal costs shouldn't amount to much, its large standing forces not withstanding.

UK IMO still seems high. Sorry for going OT. Last one.
If I look at the chart...all of the med-high spenders (2+%) seem to be those with threat perceptions or power projection needs. Interesting that those nations bordering Russia or the former warsaw pact countries seem to have lower military spending than UK. What drives UK's spending.

KSA and Eritrea lead the pack - %age of GDP wise!

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19640
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Postby Philip » 05 Mar 2007 10:27

Asian arms race fear as Beijing raises spending

http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0 ... 29,00.html

· China 18% rise in military outlay is largest since 1995
· World's largest army to undergo modernisation

Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Monday March 5, 2007
The Guardian


International concerns about China's growing military power and a spiralling global arms race intensified yesterday when Beijing announced its biggest defence budget increase for more than 10 years.
Weeks after China stunned the world by test-firing its first anti-satellite missile, the government said it will increase spending by 17.8% this year.

The sharp rise - almost double the pace of economic growth - will be used to modernise the People's Liberation Army. With 2.3 million troops, the PLA has long been the world's biggest military force, but it is only in recent years that it has started to acquire sophisticated weaponry.

Extra spending on missile systems, electronic warfare and other hi-tech items will push up the declared budget to 350.9bn yuan (£23bn), an increase of 53bn yuan on 2006. Western defence analysts say the true figure could be two to three times that because so much defence spending is concealed.
Jiang Enzhu, spokesman for the National People's Congress, said that even with the increase China's military budget was less than a tenth of the Pentagon's. The US defence department has asked for $481bn (£247bn) this year, not including operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"In recent years, China has steadily increased defence spending based on its economic development," Mr Jiang said. "China has neither the wherewithal nor the intention to enter into an arms race with any country, and China won't constitute a threat to any country."

Such assurances are unlikely to convince its near neighbours Japan and India. Both countries have increased their defence budgets in what is increasingly looking like an Asian arms race.

In the short term, however, it is Taiwan that has the most to fear from a Chinese military build-up. The island is viewed in Beijing as a renegade province. Hundreds of missiles are aimed across the strait and communist leaders have repeatedly warned that they are prepared to reunite the two sides by force if necessary.

The US, which is obliged to defend Taiwan in the event of a conflict, has repeatedly expressed concern about the power and secrecy of the Chinese military.

The US deputy secretary of state, John Negroponte, said China had failed to clarify its intentions. "I think the point we would make with respect to military spending and military acquisition of various types would be the point about transparency," he told a news conference in Beijing. "It's not so much the budget and the increases as much as it is understanding those questions better through dialogue and transparency."

Last month the US vice-president, Dick Cheney, said Beijing's military build-up and recent firing of a missile to destroy an old weather satellite were "not consistent with Beijing's stated goal of a peaceful rise".

Officials in Beijing have rebuffed such accusations. The commander of the PLA general logistics department, Liao Xilong, told the Xinhua news agency that the budget rise was needed at a time of international uncertainty.

"The present-day world is none too peaceful," he said, "and to protect national security, stability and territorial integrity we must suitably increase spending on military modernisation."

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 05 Mar 2007 17:53

It would be interesting to see how much of that new money is going to go into "Assasin's Clubs", as CHina calls them. New, specialised weapons, designed to defeat/prevent USN from interfering in Taiwan. :?:

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63582
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Postby Singha » 05 Mar 2007 18:04

they are developing a bunch of supersonic SSMs both sea and air launched drawing upon ukrainian and russian help perhaps , as well as domestic expertise. PLANAF has a fleet of its own SU30 and J-8/FBC-1 for carrying
these missiles. air refueling asset based on TU16 badger which they still
produce is available.

PLANAF is today perhaps 2nd most potent land based anti ship force after
US
. Russia has fallen away bery badly there from the glory days of Backfire regiments off the Kola peninsula and the far east.

Japan has F-2 and only harpoon missiles. they rank 3rd in my opinion. their
F-15J are purely A2A with obsolete sparrow missiles.

Vick
BRFite
Posts: 753
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Postby Vick » 06 Mar 2007 06:50

China's Military Budget: 19th Double-Digit Boost in a Row
RAND's Project Air Force, which has also studied China's arms industry modernization, estimated the 2004 Chinese military budget at $65-79 billion in FY 2001 dollars; at 2% inflation, this would equal $76-86 billion in FY 2006 dollars. Sources discussed in our 2006 article were closer to $100 billion, which is in agreement since increases of 12% and then 14.7% give an FY 2006 range of $96-110 billion with 2% inflation. The FY 2007 range would be $115-130 billion, given another 17.8% increase. Other analyses have placed China's real defense budget at up to 4x official spending, in which case actual Chinese defense spending could be as high as $180 billion for FY 2007.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4278
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 06 Mar 2007 14:57

PLA Navy Carrier Update and Euro-Naval Notes

China would have more carriers available for operations within a thousand miles of her shores than would the U.S. plus her allies. Carriers, with their ability to create local air superiority and sea denial, may be particularly effective in attacks on island territories belonging to such states as Korea (Socotra island) or Japan (the Senkakus) or the Philippines (who already have a Chinese presence on Mischief Reef) or Indonesia (the Natuna group) or even Taiwan --Taiping island, the most important strategic position in the South China Sea.


---------------

Here is the links page:

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/typeID.7/pubtype_detail.asp

chand
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 19
Joined: 25 May 2004 11:31

Postby chand » 12 Mar 2007 03:13

According to some PLA generals, the first chinese aircraft carrier will be finished by 2010. Two Steam catapults had been delivered to the PLA Navy by a company , called China Erzhong. Like always, PLA's done things before saying it, just like J-10. So, let's wait and see.
Last edited by chand on 14 Mar 2007 05:15, edited 1 time in total.

bala
BRFite
Posts: 639
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Postby bala » 13 Mar 2007 03:19

Encirclement happening as we talk...

China to build port in Sri Lanka

China and Sri Lanka on Monday initialled an agreement worth $360 million for the construction of the Hambantota harbour in the south.

The agreement was signed by the representatives of the China Harbour Engineering Company Limited and the Sino Hydro Corporation Limited and the Sri Lanka Ports Authority.

The pact is a follow up to the recent visit of President Mahinda Rajapaksa to Beijing. The Chinese government will fund 85 per cent of the cost.

mandrake
BRFite
Posts: 280
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 02:23
Location: India

Postby mandrake » 13 Mar 2007 03:47

^^ Dude...............This is going too far when will India awake? :evil: :(

Chinese government Talks less and does more, Opposite with India so much for a foreign/listening port/base Tell me a big port than India has made in any foreign Countries?

Chine - Gwadar~This one etc etc :evil:

Tilak
BRFite
Posts: 733
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 20:19
Location: Old Lal Masjid @BRFATA (*Renovation*)

Postby Tilak » 17 Mar 2007 03:56

US accusation of stealing its technology groundless: China

Beijing, Mar 15 (PTI) China today dismissed as "groundless" the US accusation that Chinese companies stole its advanced technologies, saying such allegation is unacceptable.
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang made the remarks at a regular press conference when asked to comment on an accusation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) criticising Chinese companies for stealing advanced technologies in the United States through various means.

Qin said he was "astonished" at this accusation, saying someone who always regards others as a "threat" or even "thieves" is actually harbouring a "fragile" psychology. :rotfl:

Qin pointed out that the cooperation between China and other countries, including that with the United States, is based on mutual benefit and win-win principle, adding that the Chinese companies conduct their business in the United States in compliance with local laws. PTI

rsharma
BRFite
Posts: 271
Joined: 02 Aug 2006 22:14
Location: Hidden Markov Model

Postby rsharma » 28 Mar 2007 17:02

Hi,
Cud anyone tell me whether SS-N-27B "Sizzler" carried by improved Kilo class( Project 636M ) subs of PLA-N is the same ALFA family 3M54E Club N or a newer improved version????
Thanx in advance.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63582
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Postby Singha » 28 Mar 2007 17:27

yes its the same one.

wrt SL, knowing the double crossing nature of SL I am kinda sure they have
no intention of attracting US anger by letting the PRC into the cage. But just the south americans and africans they are most happy to mooch on free PRC $$, gain some trade benefits and so on. Dont forget most expat lankans and sure their elites $$ is parked in western, thailand, malaysia, singapore..all areas where the US can make things hot.

rsharma
BRFite
Posts: 271
Joined: 02 Aug 2006 22:14
Location: Hidden Markov Model

Postby rsharma » 28 Mar 2007 17:51

Singhaji,
cud u pls giv a link suggesting they r the same?

pradeepe
BRFite
Posts: 741
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 20:46
Location: Our culture is different and we cannot live together - who said that?

Postby pradeepe » 31 Mar 2007 00:32

Chinese space force developing fast, Congress told

"There is little evidence to show that the People's Liberation Army (Navy) is developing the capabilities necessary to extend its ability to project power much beyond China's claimed territorial waters," according to Erickson. He thought the PLA(N) would like to be able to prevent US carrier fleets from intervening in any dispute with the Taiwanese, but doesn't yet aspire to challenge American control of the world's oceans.


Old N3 saying: Guy falling from the roof of a building.

passing 10th floor:
All fine

.
.
passing 3rd floor
All fine


A few more toothbrush orders would do just fine. :)

Vick
BRFite
Posts: 753
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Postby Vick » 02 Apr 2007 08:39

From DN
[quote]Posted 04/02/07 14:04
China Focuses on Surface Power
By WENDELL MINNICK, SINGAPORE

China continues to expand the operational and strategic role of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) as it buys and builds new warships and submarines and upgrades existing ones.

Chinese shipyards have been building fast attack missile patrol boats, dock landing ships, frigates and destroyers, many with stealthy, high-tech features common on Western warships.

“The Navy budget focuses on building more modern surface ships, such as the FFG 054A frigate, and the technology of Chinese fighting ships is gradually improving,â€


Return to “Strategic & Security Issues Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest