Tibet Watch- 2008-Part 6

indygill
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Postby indygill » 15 Apr 2008 20:32

Here left goes again. Its just amazing!! it gets more and more ridiculous !! I never knew chinese dominance on Indian left was to this extent...


Kerala to hold mass Olympic pledge on April 17

http://in.news.yahoo.com/pti/20080415/r ... 4a2da.html

Thiruvananthapuram, Apr 15 (PTI) As the Olympic Torch goes through a torrid run facing protests over Chinese crackdown in Tibet, Left-ruled Kerala is gearing up to give moral support to the Beijing Games in a big way when the torch relay arrives in India on April 17. The state Sports Council will mobilise people across the state not only to take a Olympic pledge but also resent the protests being staged in different parts of the world against the Beijing Olympics over the Tibetan issue, council president T P Dasan said here today.

"Protest against the Olympic torch run was in effect a protest against Olympics and the spirit values for which it stood," Dasan said. Tibetan issue was not something that cropped up after the Chinese capital was selected for holding the Olympics.

Dasan appealed to the sports lovers and all those who believed in democratic values to assemble to pledge support to Beijing Olympics. Sports lovers, athletes and players of different discipline would gather in the state capital, district headquarters, sports schools and camps to take the pledge to uphold Olympic values.

PTI.

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Postby sanjaykumar » 15 Apr 2008 23:19

I think West Begal and Kerala should have CM appointed directly by Beijing. It will save on public expenses on elections.

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Postby skganji » 15 Apr 2008 23:25

CPI-M is absolute anti-national and anti-Indian party . It is working for the interest of the chinese communist thugs. Both the communist parties should be banned in India.

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Postby Keshav » 16 Apr 2008 00:02

skganji wrote:CPI-M is absolute anti-national and anti-Indian party . It is working for the interest of the chinese communist thugs. Both the communist parties should be banned in India.


For the long run, its probably better to convince people that Communism is bad rather than squashing them. Then they're more likely to turn to Naxalism.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 16 Apr 2008 00:14

skganji wrote:CPI-M is absolute anti-national and anti-Indian party . It is working for the interest of the chinese communist thugs. Both the communist parties should be banned in India.


Perhaps China has found the ultimate tool for destroying this country without ever raising its finger. have more and more states hosting the communist sympathizers as state leaders and pretty soon you can make sure that the Indian Government's ability to react to even the most outrageous provocations becomes that of a paralysis.

In any other country, these guys would have been facing court charges of treason, punishable by death. But in India we do the opposite and not only allow them to say these things and allow them to abuse the right to freedom of speech, but also elect them into public office.

It is these things that bring home to me the fact that despite the claims on this forum about India's rise as a superpower, maybe a decade or so from now, I feel that what instead will be happening will be a fight just for us to hold on to our physical borders, let alone exerting regional dominance...

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Postby hnair » 16 Apr 2008 00:32

Folks that is not it, they are planning to hold a "Solidarity Day" in Kerala for the Olympics. Solidarity to whom, the PLA? The state level leadership is ignorant of anything that is beyond what is fed to them by the Complan Comrades of Delhi. The Sports Minister, normally the more reasonable amongst the state lefties, is making a fool of himself. That is all I can say at this point.

vivek_ahuja, treasonous to whom? You and I maybe. The PLA's media mouthpiece of India got a Padmabhushan, last time I checked. Not exactly a penalty that will prevent future treason.

Actually, Keshav has it right - do a Mao on them. "Re-education of the masses" might work.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 16 Apr 2008 00:52

hnair wrote: treasonous to whom? You and I maybe. The PLA's media mouthpiece of India got a Padmabhushan, last time I checked. Not exactly a penalty that will prevent future treason.


And that's the point, isn't it?

Look, as regards to these state governments that are mouthing the Chinese POV, let me say this:

There are certain rules that are applied (or should be applied) on personal moral grounds even when using the freedom to speech argument. And if that is impossible, and the concerned people feel that they absolutely cannot resist sniping at their own country's interests, the least that should be done is to not allow them to hold government offices.

Because when you hold the government office, you speak for the people and the nation. When I say treason, I meant it in that respect. If these commie sympathizers feel that they have to drag this nation's name in the mud in response to chinese belligerence, let them do it as private citizens, not from positions of state governments.

Besides, this is the case today. If this kind of crap is not stopped early, its only going to give momentum to it, not slow it down. China will be convinced that internal weakening is the way to go as far as India is concerned and only encourage this further once they see that they can use the freedoms of an average Indian citizen against them. Who wants to send thousands of soldiers into battle when they can just as well stand and laugh as the enemy simply crumbles from within in front of them?

And as far as 're-educating' is concerned, (I am still not sure what that means though), how that will be done with state governments in these states officially belonging under Beijing control is anyone's guess.

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Postby Keshav » 16 Apr 2008 00:56

vivek_ahuja wrote: And as far as 're-educating' is concerned, (I am still not sure what that means though), how that will be done with state governments in these states officially belonging under Beijing control is anyone's guess.


We could go the dangerous route and implement politics in religion. Have the local temples give some equivalent of a "sermon" with a "discussion" period afterwards and have them talk about political stuff.

Its a dangerous road, but its the only think I can think of when I think of re-educating outside of the public system.

Or create Hindu schools that are separate from the state ones and do the same thing. I say use religion only because its probably the only private aspect of Communistic societies.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 16 Apr 2008 01:03

Keshav wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote: And as far as 're-educating' is concerned, (I am still not sure what that means though), how that will be done with state governments in these states officially belonging under Beijing control is anyone's guess.


We could go the dangerous route and implement politics in religion. Have the local temples give some equivalent of a "sermon" with a "discussion" period afterwards and have them talk about political stuff.

Its a dangerous road, but its the only think I can think of when I think of re-educating outside of the public system.

Or create Hindu schools that are separate from the state ones and do the same thing. I say use religion only because its probably the only private aspect of Communistic societies.


Mixing religion with politics is what has gotten Pakistan where it is today: at the brink of internal collapse on exactly those same faultlines. It would be foolish of us not to have learnt from that. And as such you might want to be extremely careful suggesting what you are suggesting.

Formation of such schools are nothing more than the Hindu version of Madrassas, and the results of that can easily work against you.

If I may caution you on a personal level, you are walking on thin ice with such suggestions here.

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Postby indygill » 16 Apr 2008 01:08

Tibet issue is helping expose this heinous Left-China nexus. I hope Tibet issue will be an eye-opener and probably will help spread the awareness of dangers left projects for India because of its dedicated loyalty towards China. There is a need to scrutinize this left and Chinese nexus and actions being taken that threat Indian national security.

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http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080331/j ... 077327.jsp

Chinese radars set off air-track scare

The radars are to be installed in Delhi, Mumbai, Goa, Patna, Patiala, Mohanbari, Lucknow, Paradip, Karaikal, Bhopal, Nagpur and Agartala. But some experts have expressed concern that each radar with a range of several hundred kilometres will have the potential to track aircraft over Indian air bases.
The former air force official now involved in providing weather services said the worry stems only from a future possibility. “It is a source of discomfort — a window of opportunity that someone might want to exploit given a chance,â€

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Postby Keshav » 16 Apr 2008 01:14

vivek_ahuja wrote:If I may caution you on a personal level, you are walking on thin ice with such suggestions here.


Let's not get ancy here - it was a suggestion and I preceded it by saying that it was dangerous so don't think me naive. Other than voting them out or banning them, you can't get rid of them.

It isn't communism that these people want, but the communists who pretend to represent communism who use that power and take full control of the state without looking to the people.

One way is to help them understand socialism and capitalism as alternatives - they must understand that there are other states outside of Kerala and WB that are successful despite not being Communistic (which is the alternative of what the Communist Party wants them to think, obviously).

1) We might have private businesses who offer incentives to people in those states to open up their very own shop, whatever it may be and see the benefits.

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Postby Rye » 16 Apr 2008 01:20

IMO, the commies in Kerala are empowered because the labour unions are strong, and they depend on the CPI(M) to protect "worker's rights", which the CPI(M) does by ensuring that it is highly unprofitable for businesses to operate in Kerala. Disinvestment of Kerala PSUs should weaken the Kerala CPI(M)'s vote bank but it could also make the gulf-returned islamophiles gain more influence because of the resulting vaccum. The CPI(M) may just have to lose one election to another party to lose their grip on Kerala.

JMTs

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 16 Apr 2008 01:26

Keshav wrote:it was a suggestion and I preceded it by saying that it was dangerous so don't think me naive.


No personal insult intended. I was merely being politically correct.

It isn't communism that these people want, but the communists who pretend to represent communism who use that power and take full control of the state without looking to the people.


Perhaps. But then the explanation for their comments is that they don't mean it and merely mouth what is expected of them. I don't buy this, and unless there is hard evidence either way, we can only speculate.

As far as I am concerned, their comments go beyond just power grabbing acts. They are speaking beyond it now, and look like hard core commies to me.

One way is to help them understand socialism and capitalism as alternatives - they must understand that there are other states outside of Kerala and WB that are successful despite not being Communistic (which is the alternative of what the Communist Party wants them to think, obviously).


That is a better idea than the religious thing. But to do this requires extensive drive from the GOI, and the commies have the latter by the balls, so I am not sure how it might be made to work.

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Postby hnair » 16 Apr 2008 01:31

Rye wrote:IMO, the commies in Kerala are empowered because the labour unions are strong, and they depend on the CPI(M) to protect "worker's rights", which the CPI(M) does by ensuring that it is highly unprofitable for businesses to operate in Kerala. Disinvestment of Kerala PSUs should weaken the Kerala CPI(M)'s vote bank but it could also make the gulf-returned islamophiles gain more influence because of the resulting vaccum. The CPI(M) may just have to lose one election to another party to lose their grip on Kerala.

JMTs


It is a long story. The CPI(M) loses elections regularly and it dint help. But the state leadership is heavily segregated by the JNU crowd from any national/international issues. They are made to feel "intellectually inferior", right from their student leadership days by the Complan comrades. The result is a person who thought smart once, but is a public zombie when it comes to extra-state issues.

Some of the younger ones are changing somewhat, but it is an uphill battle, since there are enough crabs in the state pot, who will side with the Complan Comrades and accuse the more sensible ones of "reactionary politics against working class". That is how the Complans keep their state shepherds in control. Contrary to perception, industry (or whatever is there in Kerala) has also evolved to have a "crazy commie allowance" in their bottom lines. And there is always the background talks, where the Chambers read the riot act to sheepish commie leaders(yep, election moolah makes them nicer). So yeah, there is evolved life in that deserted looking ecosystem.

As vivek_ahuja pointed out, the way out is not more Hinduism. Maybe more knowledge about alternate thought processes. Anyways, a bit OT to Tibet per se.

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Postby ramana » 16 Apr 2008 03:47

X-posted


Chinks in the Bamboo Curtain

Anil Athale


Col. (retd) Anil A Athale is a Fellow at the Centre for Armed Forces Historical Research. Anil Athale is a former Joint Director, War History, Ministry of Defence, and co-author of the official history of the 1962 India China war. He has been running an NGO, Peace and Disarmament, based in Pune for the past 10 years. As a military historian he specialises in insurgency and peace process. In this column, he feels that the failure of China to open dialogue with eminently reasonable Dalai Lama,seeking autonomy and protection of Tibetan religion, raises fundamental doubts about the Chinese system.


The recent disturbances in Chinese held Tibet did not come as a total surprise.

The ‘uprising’ seemed carefully timed to coincide with the lighting of Olympic flame. This ensured that the cause of Tibetans got the maximum publicity. The Tibetan agitators played on the Chinese anxiety to conduct a smooth summer Olympics this year, a sort of ‘arrival’ of China as the next super power.

Yet there were indeed elements of surprise in recent events. First is the scale and spread of the unrest. It was long believed by many (including this author) that the Inner Tibet, ie Tibetan populated areas in provinces of Gansu and Sichuan, are well integrated with China. The scale of violence in these provinces gave a jolt to this perception.


The second, and equally important issue, is the fact that the Chinese government was apparently caught napping. This raises an important point about the efficiency of the Chinese Police State.

Let there be no doubt that China is a one party dictatorship and the Chinese go to extraordinary lengths to make sure that no organisation other than the Communist party has a voice. The scale and the degree of organisation in the agitation showed that there are chinks in the Bamboo Curtain.

Tibet lies at the western extremity of China and the Chinese hold over it has always been tenuous at best. Whenever the central power weakened in China, Tibet became virtually independent, only to be followed by subjugation when the power equation changed.

Tibet has another unique characteristic. While it has religious and emotional ties with India through Buddhism, politically it has been tied to China since ancient times. The roots of the present crisis however lie in the events of late 19th and early 20th century.

Nineteenth and early twentieth century saw the domination of European colonial powers all over Asia and Africa. While India was under direct colonial rule, China was ruled by a cabal of international powers. Many Chinese arrogantly point out that while India was a colony, China has ‘never’ been ruled by foreigners. It is kind of distinction between being a ‘keep’ of one colonial power (India) versus gang rape by several (China). For all intents and purposes China was no better than the Indian Princely States. Its sovereignty was a myth.

It was during this period of weakness of central power in China that Tibet was virtually an independent country. This was also the period of the ‘Great Game’ in Central Asia, the competition between the expanding Russia and Imperial Britain.

After conquest of most of India, the task of the British army in India changed to that of dealing with the Frontier tribesmen, Afghanistan and advancing Russians. Later Russia alternated between being an ally and threat to England, but in the 19th and early 20th century, the only threat to the British in India was from Russia. The story of the disastrous Afghan Wars is well known.


The British intervention in Tibet was thus part of the larger effort to check the Russian advance. A weak China In 1903-1904, sided with the British out of compulsion. Sir Francis Younghusband, under orders from the Viceroy of India, Lord Curzon, jointly with John Claude White, the Political Officer for Sikkim, led a military mission to Tibet as a result of disputes over the Sikkim-Tibet border. The mission became a de facto invasion, and British forces occupied Lhasa. During this brutal campaign, Younghusband slaughtered 1,300 Tibetans in Gyangz. To seal the gains from this conquest a conference was held in Simla in 1904 that drew the borders between India and Tibet, and established a British-manned telegraph network in Tibet. To curb the Russian advance, the Chinese were brought in.

In effect, it was the British that snuffed out Tibetan independence. In 1954, when Nehru recognised Chinese claims over Tibet, he was merely following the British colonial tradition. The motives for Nehru were similar, and there is reason to believe that his understanding was that Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim would form buffer states between India and China.

The Chinese, however, had other ideas. In 1949 as the Communists swept to power in China, the Peoples Liberation Army swiftly advanced to secure the Indo-Tibetan border. Using the Panchen Lama, it announced that China was liberating Tibet. The Dalai Lama was kept as figurehead.

In early 1954, a large-scale revolt in Tibet was ruthlessly suppressed by the Chinese, killing 40,000 Tibetans. Tens of thousands of youth were shipped to China and large scale ‘colonisation’ of Tibet with Han Chinese began to change the demography of Tibet.

In March 1959, another revolt broke out. Some 65,000 Tibetans were slaughtered, and the Dalai Lama with thousands of his followers fled Tibet and took refuge in India. Sino-Indian relations soured as China suspected that Nehru was leaning towards the US.

In October 1962, taking advantage of the Cuban Missile crisis, China attacked the Indian border and routed the Indian army to teach India a ‘lesson’. Since then the border issue has remained frozen.

In the aftermath of 1962 conflict, India collaborated with the American CIA, established a covert force, the 22 Establishment, (now SFF or Special Frontier Force) to carry out a Guerilla war in Tibet. China responded in kind and began to support the Nagas and Mizos (a fact acknowledged by late Laldenga in interview with this author in May 1988). China also did one better by creating a proxy in Pakistan to check India. The Tibetan issue was now embroiled in international politics.

India began to normalise relations with China under Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi in the late 1980s, and the effort was continued under the Narasimha Rao and AB Vajpayee governments. The Tibetans also opened a secret channel of talks with the Chinese.

Indian Marxists and their evil designs

About three four years ago, I had a chance to interact with the foreign secretary of the Tibetan government in exile. My contention to him was that in the present geo-political situation, independent Tibet was out of question. At best what Tibetans should hope for is internal autonomy and protection of its unique religio-cultural identity.


The secretary informed me that the Dalai Lama was also of the similar view, but the stumbling block remained the fate of ‘Inner Tibet’. While it appears that the Chinese were willing to grant internal autonomy to ‘Outer Tibet’, it firmly rejected the call for Greater Tibet.

The Foreign Secretary also told me that there was great unrest amongst the Tibetans of the ‘Inner Tibet’. But though I had no means to independently verify this, the spread of recent anti-Chinese rioting to Gansu and Sichuan provinces tells its own story.

My own recommendation was and is, that the Tibetans should accept what the Chinese offer and peacefully agitate for a Greater Tibet within the Chinese system.

The Indian approach to unrest in Tibet has been squeamish at best. The usual suspects are the professional humanright activists and the Lefties. There is a deafening silence from them. A prominent ‘National’ English language daily from Chennai, editorially compared Tibet with Kashmir. This is like comparing chalk with cheese. Unlike the Chinese, India has given full autonomy to Kashmir. Article 370 protects the Kashmiri identity, and there is no attempt, unlike the Chinese in Tibet, at changing the demography of Kashmir.


Kashmiri separatist leaders continue to abuse India day in and day out using the democratic freedoms of the country. To compare the freedom in India with repression in Chinese held Tibet as the Chennai daily did on March 26, is intellectually dishonest and borders on the anti-national. It appears that it is this that is influencing government of India from taking a firm and moral stand against China.

The failure of China to open dialogue with eminently reasonable Dalai Lama, who wants only autonomy and protection of Tibetan religion and culture, raises fundamental doubts about the Chinese system.

For a long time, there has been a debate over how the rise of China will affect the world. One view has it that it would be a peaceful rise and favours engagement with China. The other view fears that an authoritarian China will be aggressive and threat to world peace.

Tibet is a litmus test of that. The world is watching if the ‘Land of Little Emperors’ (allusion to the Chinese policy of one child norm that has given rise to a nation of 500 million single child citizens) will make the necessary adjustments or be like the single child: cranky, demanding and aggressive.

The views expressed in the article are the author's and not of Sify.com



Very good summation. Why dont a few BRF members lead a peaceful protest against the Old lady of Madras?

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Postby hnair » 16 Apr 2008 04:07

Do not forget to read the "comments" to Col Athale's article 8) The main attack objective seems to be to achieve parity with long gone British imperialists. Though not fully clear, kind of explains why they strive hard to win a pat from Hollywood, dress up in western suits and suppress the Tibetans in the best Western traditions of WWII.

Looks like those huawei modems are indeed tainted and lonely, middle-aged JYangs of the diaspora with limited productive skills are assigned to each Indian modem :D

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Postby indygill » 16 Apr 2008 04:31

Tibetan protests banned in Arunachal

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Tibe ... 954838.cms

The Congress government in Arunachal Pradesh has joined its Left Front counterpart in West Bengal in imposing a ban on Tibetan protests in Tawang, the border district which China has been claiming as its own.

Confirming the ban, Tawang Superintendent of Police S N Mosobi told TOI that Section 144 was imposed to prevent rallies in the district. The restrictions were imposed on the direction of the Centre, he added.

The ban has come even as the UPA government in New Delhi had earlier clarified that it would impose no restriction on Tibetan protests across the country.

The ban indicates that the government has buckled under pressure of Chinese authorities who had sought to send its personnel to be part of the security cordon for the Olympic flame reaching New Delhi on Thursday.

------

He said a group of protesters were waiting in Nathu La in Sikkim to go to Tibet while his party, after convincing 48 MPs of the Lok Sabha, had sent an appeal to the UN, the EU and other international communities seeking pressure on China to initiate dialogue with the Dalai Lama.

"India has been overcautious on the Tibet issue for the past five decades, however, it will not pay much in the end to remain defensive on an issue which also concerns India," said Lama Nawang Norbu, head Lama of Trans-Himalayan Region, said Tawang monastery.

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Postby indygill » 16 Apr 2008 04:49

Wow!!!! I can just imagine all this when left is ruling Indian by "proxy" only... imagine if they ever come to power and rule India directly!!!!

The Rajpath will be under hawk-eyed vigil with the security ring including Chinese commandos

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Thre ... 954344.cms

Three-tier security for torch relay in New Delhi

NEW DELHI: Not leaving anything to chance, authorities will put in place a three-tier security ring during the Olympic torch relay on Thursday here as the Chinese Ambassador met the Delhi Police chief on Tuesday to discuss the arrangements.

The Rajpath will be under hawk-eyed vigil with the security ring including Chinese commandos, for the event to avoid protests by Tibetans.

The Chinese personnel, drawn from the Olympic Holy Flame Protection Group, will form the inner circle of the ring while the commandos of the elite National Security Guards will provide close proximity security for the torch relay.

Chinese Ambassador Zhang Yan on Tuesday met Delhi Police Commissioner Y S Dadwal and discussed the security arrangements made for the April 17 Olympic torch relay in the wake of protests by Tibetans.

------

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080416/j ... 144920.jsp


[b]War games before torch whistle

Anti-riotâ€

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Postby sum » 16 Apr 2008 08:40

Do not forget to read the "comments" to Col Athale's article The main attack objective seems to be to achieve parity with long gone British imperialists. Though not fully clear, kind of explains why they strive hard to win a pat from Hollywood, dress up in western suits and suppress the Tibetans in the best Western traditions of WWII

Also,how can the "educated posters" confuse chinks in the curtain(as in gaps in the curtain) with a racist word?? :-? :-?

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Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2008 09:13

U.S. would only boycott Beijing over athlete safety

By Steve Keating Tue Apr 15, 8:39 PM ET

CHICAGO (Reuters) - The United States would only consider boycotting the Beijing Olympics if China was unable to guarantee athlete safety, United States Olympic Committee (USOC) chief Jim Scherr said on Tuesday.
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Following recent protests over China's human rights record and stance on Tibet, Scherr was asked what could force the U.S. to pull out of this year's Games.

"If there is a point that we cannot guarantee the safety of the delegation we would look at whether or not we would send a team," Scherr told Reuters.

"However, we feel absolutely good about China's preparations on security and the safety of our delegation.

"We're committed to sending a team, we have accepted an invitation and we have nothing else under consideration at this point and time."

From 16-year-old gymnast Shawn Johnson to 39-year-old modern pentathlete Sheila Taormina, most of the U.S. Olympians taking part in a three-day USOC media summit have been asked about political issues.

Demonstrations along the Olympic torch relay route through London, Paris and San Francisco have taken the spotlight off the Olympics and put it on Tibetan anti-Beijing protests, sparking calls for a boycott.

OLYMPIC IDEALS

Scherr said the world should take the opportunity to embrace the Olympic ideals to get its message across in the same way that black sprinter Jesse Owens did at the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

"As an Olympian and CEO of the United States Olympic Committee the Games themselves are inherently good," said Scherr. "The competition on the field stands for excellence, hope, inspiration and most importantly friendship among nations and peoples.

"That message comes through the Games and that message is an important one to deliver to the world.

"If Jesse Owens didn't go to the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin and show the world that the ideology that was in place at the time was flat wrong by winning four gold medals he would not have had the opportunity.

"We're looking forward to taking this team to Beijing and making those statements."

The USOC and team coaches have said they will not try to stop their athletes from speaking out in Beijing.

"They (players) have the right to express their opinions... freedom of speech," said Mike Krzyzewski, head coach of the U.S. men's basketball team. "I would tell them to follow their hearts but understand they are representing U.S. basketball.

"Sometimes, through a performance you do more than what you say.

"None of these athletes have a responsibility to be political. They have responsibility to represent the country in the best possible manner."

(Editing by Ed Osmond)


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Postby niran » 16 Apr 2008 11:42

Sachin Tendulkar not to carry Olympic torch: Report

Makes me breath easier. take that Comrade Amir.

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Bush, Pope may talk about Tibet situation

Postby joshvajohn » 16 Apr 2008 12:28

President George W Bush will be discussing the issue of China and human rights and possibly also the recent unrest in Tibet with visiting Pope Benedict XVI, a top US official said on Tuesday.

"That's possible," White House Press Secretary Dana Perino said in response to a query whether Bush and the Pontiff will be discussing the situation in Tibet in the Oval Office.

"It's not on the list of things that I have here. But they, obviously, will talk about China and human rights, so that's a possibility," she added.

Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama is also on a US visit now, his first after violent anti-China protests broke out in his Himalayan homeland.

The Pope arrived to a rousing welcome at the Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland, received by the President himself along with the First Lady, Laura Bush.

"I expect the president will go into some, but not a lot of detail about areas where they have a shared commitment and shared values, such as human rights and individual dignity, their work together to combat extremist ideology, especially in the Muslim world, that obviously the pope has been no stranger to criticism by extremists, as well," Perino said.

"And so the president and the pope have shared a desire to work together to combat terrorism, so I expect they will talk about that," Perino said.

She said Bush was interested in how the Pope has been working to establish an interfaith dialogue. The discussions are also expected to touch upon the issues of religious freedom, human rights crisis in Africa and the Lebanon situation, the Press Secretary said.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... +situation

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Postby JE Menon » 16 Apr 2008 12:47

So it seems from the report that we are, indeed, allowing Chinese commandos to guard the torch. Although the report is not clear whether it is the Delhi police commissioner who confirmed that, it seems to be the case.

Utterly shameful and cowardly kow-towing by the government, in my opinion. They should have just said don't bring the torch to India, if the Chinese insisted on it...

Of course, provided that it is not standard practice at all Olympic torch relays - i.e. that the host provides security to guard the torch during the running.

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Postby Sanku » 16 Apr 2008 13:09

vivek_ahuja wrote:Mixing religion with politics is what has gotten Pakistan where it is today: at the brink of internal collapse on exactly those same faultlines. It would be foolish of us not to have learnt from that. And as such you might want to be extremely careful suggesting what you are suggesting.

Formation of such schools are nothing more than the Hindu version of Madrassas, and the results of that can easily work against you.
.


Vivek; for what you say be true Hinduism should be same as Islam in its tenets; which is not.

It is sad that we Indians are so brainwashed that we immediately jump to equal equal with all religions with Hinduism even when the case is not so.

India will have no redemption if it has not more "hinduism" (or if the english words make you feel better Indic-ism) rather than a value system which is alien to people and land.

Since this is OT first and last post and khatam shud.

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Postby Karan Dixit » 16 Apr 2008 13:15


US Under Secretary of State Paula Dobriansky, Bush's special envoy for Tibet, "is going to be meeting with the Dalai Lama in Michigan on April 21st," State Department spokesman Tom Casey told reporters.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080415/pl ... 0415144159

*******

Buddhism is a fast growing religion in USA. I think it would be a wise idea for current US government to take the Tibet crisis seriously.

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Postby Karan Dixit » 16 Apr 2008 13:20

[b]
The European Commission said Tuesday that legitimate European worries about human rights and Tibet should not be “walled offâ€

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Postby Karan Dixit » 16 Apr 2008 13:26


Berlin, April 15: German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier renewed his call Tuesday for China to begin talks on the Tibet question.


http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action ... s&id=48476

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Postby Karan Dixit » 16 Apr 2008 13:33

Former Madhya Pradesh chief minister and Bharatiya Janshakti Party leader Uma Bharati was on Tuesday arrested at the Indo-Tibet [Images] border while trying to enter the autonomous region of China in support of the people of Tibet fighting Chinese 'repression'.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/apr/15tibetrow6.htm

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Postby Dilbu » 16 Apr 2008 13:40

ajay pratap wrote:Sachin Tendulkar not to carry Olympic torch: Report

Makes me breath easier. take that Comrade Amir.

Phew! :oops: :P

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Postby gashish » 16 Apr 2008 13:56

Dilbu wrote:
ajay pratap wrote:Sachin Tendulkar not to carry Olympic torch: Report

Makes me breath easier. take that Comrade Amir.

Phew! :oops: :P


...just when a bhakt was having doubts about the existence of God!
bhakti asar layee..:)

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Postby merlin » 16 Apr 2008 14:12

Very good summation. Why dont a few BRF members lead a peaceful protest against the Old lady of Madras?


The old lady of mumbai might soon make the old lady of madras irrelevant :roll:

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Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2008 14:21

China 'seizes' weapons from monasteries

Raghavendra in Beijing | April 15, 2008 22:29 IST


China on Tuesday claimed to have seized explosives and lethal weapons from six monasteries in a Tibetan-populated prefecture in Gansu province, as Beijing [Images] insisted that the barrier to dialogue was on the side of the Dalai Lama [Images].

The police seized a gun, 10 kgs of dynamite, five detonators and seven knives in a major monastery and five bullets in another during an inspection at Hezuo in Gannan Autonour Prefecture, the provincial government said.

In Xiahe county, five knives and 11 flags of Tibetan-government-in exile were confiscated from four monasteries.

Officials said that 2,204 people, including 519 monks, had surrendered to the police following the violence in Gannan, which left 94 people injured.

But 1,870 of them, including 413 monks, had been released as they had committed only minor offences, Xinhua news agency quoted officials as saying.

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 16 Apr 2008 18:17

sum wrote:

Also,how can the "educated posters" confuse chinks in the curtain(as in gaps in the curtain) with a racist word??


Good question for the PC Security Forces. Please do not wonder whether there are chinks in the armor of the PLA. :eek: :eek:

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Postby Philip » 16 Apr 2008 18:56

While our shameless govt. kowtows to the Chinese butchers,news from Tibet reveal more Chinese mayhem.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/ap ... ghts.tibet

Tibetan singer missing after arrest by Chinese officials
Tania Branigan in Beijing guardian.co.uk, Wednesday April 16 2008

A car burns on the street during last month's protests in Lhasa. Photograph: AFP

A well-known Tibetan singer has not been seen for more than a week after she was arrested by Chinese security forces in last month's anti-government protests, her husband has said.

Lamao Jia said his wife, Jamyang Kyi, who has performed extensively abroad, was detained in Xining in Qinghai province on April 1 and that he had not sen her since April 7.

Jia, who works with his wife at the Tibetan-language section of the state-run Qinghai TV, told the Associated Press he did not know who had taken his wife into custody. "Everything is a mess right now," he said.

Police in Xining referred the Guardian's inquiries to Qinghai's public security bureau, where staff requested that questions be faxed to them, but they did not respond.

The detention was reported by the United States government-funded
Radio Free Asia, which cited unidentified sources in Beijing saying
police had arrested Jamyang Kyi.

It said security services had been questioning large numbers of Tibetans who had travelled internationally. Kyi has performed alongside exiles in overseas concerts, but not explicitly supported groups calling for autonomy for Tibetans.

Matt Whitticase, a spokesman for the Free Tibet campaign, said: "People with no apparent connections at all to any activism appear to be being detained."

Large parts of western China saw unrest in the wake of the riots in Lhasa,
and a heavy security presence remains. Almost half of China's six million
Tibetans live outside the autonomous region, in provinces including
Qinghai, Gansu and Sichuan.

Journalists trying to visit areas of unrest are still being turned back or
removed, making it almost impossible to verify claims of detentions and
deaths during protests.

Exile groups allege that police shot dead eight protestors in a clash in Garze, Sichuan, on April 3, but no journalist reached the town until this week. A reporter from the Japanese news agency Kyodo was trailed by police during his visit.

He said he saw posters in Garze offering rewards of up to 100,000 yuan (£7,225) - a huge sum by Chinese standards - for information on the demonstration's organisers and photographers.

A monk in the town claimed police had targeted those taking pictures of the
protest as they fired, adding: "The government is lying, and that is why
it is afraid of pictures becoming known to the outside world."

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Postby satya » 16 Apr 2008 19:21

China-Tibet:PAP to take control in Lhasa

[quote]After April 30, local Public Security Personnel in the Lhasa municipality will be losing their jobs because authorities announced that “the militaryâ€

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Postby Venkarl » 16 Apr 2008 20:38

Multi-layered security for torch relay; Sachin opts out
http://in.news.yahoo.com/pti/20080416/r_t_pti_nl_general/tnl-multi-layered-security-for-torch-rel-114a2da.html

Commandos from the elite NSG will take control of all the highrise buildings along the relay route and keep a watch from rooftops even as two choppers will provide air cover for the event. PTI.


trained eyes can take as many pictures as they can of these NSG guys. I bet they'll look tough and fully loaded as the world will watch the olympic run in India with a bit of ______. Something for sure is to happen. This might sow a seed for skirmishes to battles to a war.

food for thought

Remote viewing Tibetan monks see Extra Terrestrial powers saving the World from destroying itself in 2012

War could be anywhere :-?

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-26-04.asp

Apologies requested for off the track post.

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Postby rsingh » 16 Apr 2008 20:52

From HT

As the clock started ticking for the arrival of the Olympic torch in New Delhi, India on Wednesday said no Chinese personnel would be involved with the security of the torch relay and assured that there will be no repeat of the London and Paris hitches on the restricted route in the Indian capital.

New Delhi also stressed that no Tibetan would be allowed near the torch route between Rashtrapati Bhavan and India Gate, but added that they can hold their protests elsewhere in the city.

"As per international rules, there will be torch attendants from China. There will be two Chinese torch attendants accompanying the flame on the route,"
Indian Olympic Association president Suresh Kalmadi told reporters.


Seems somebody is reading BR :)

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Postby Rye » 16 Apr 2008 21:07

If the Indian media did not consist of marxists, there could be a "publicly supported" torch rally in the same route a day before the rally, with Free Tibet posters all over and a huge crowd cheering on Tibetan activists supporting the torch. The Media can then contrast this to the anti-olympic pro-tibet real torch rally. The message won't be lost on Tibetans who are watching, and China will get a kick in the gonads the same way they fire a missile when an Indian president visits. Problem is that this is a little too much like the chinese own tactics after their embassy was bombed in Serbia, so they will figure it out.

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Postby vsudhir » 16 Apr 2008 22:27

Rye wrote:If the Indian media did not consist of marxists, there could be a "publicly supported" torch rally in the same route a day before the rally, with Free Tibet posters all over and a huge crowd cheering on Tibetan activists supporting the torch. The Media can then contrast this to the anti-olympic pro-tibet real torch rally. The message won't be lost on Tibetans who are watching, and China will get a kick in the gonads the same way they fire a missile when an Indian president visits. Problem is that this is a little too much like the chinese own tactics after their embassy was bombed in Serbia, so they will figure it out.


NO 'Rang De Basanti' style candle light dharnas etc? Sure, angrezi dhimmedia wont cover it but the vernacular media would surely do so?

Added later:
Heck, new age media (youtube, online petitions etc can spread the word sweeter and better, IMO). Whats the DCH crowd doing anyway...

Also, wondering if the vernacular TV channels like aajtak have also been Die-ified. Sure seemed like it last I remember....

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Postby CRamS » 16 Apr 2008 22:57

Ladies and Gentlemen, put your hands together for the "global power of the 21st century", that proclaims that "peace process with terrorists and their sponsors is irreversible", but does not shy away from displaying its machismo: arresting those peacefully demonstrating against communist thugs in Beijing

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/world ... torch.html

Shabasah India.


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