Tibet Watch- 2008-Part 6

surinder
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Postby surinder » 19 Apr 2008 10:23

Rye wrote:sanjaychoudhary, surinder, apologies for the rant against the discussion on religion. hnair has already said the needful (thanks, hnair).

Please have mercy...many people here may not particularly care about the religious angle to geo-political problem unless it is warranted. The Chinese are not occupying Tibet to crush buddhism...the chinese are just being the imperialist wannabe-capitalist pigs that they apparently despise.


Rye,

No need to apologize.

Please note that while it is true that Chinese are not motivated by desire to harm Budhism, however Tibetan response *is* colored by Bhudism. This includes everything that Budhism has to offer, including its views on non-violence.


This is not a one-on-one... did you think about why the USA protected the torch? India is doing the same thing...so why would you want the Chinese to think that the americans hate them less than the Indians? Right now, the GoI has fulfilled its international obligations in word and spirit, while at the same time showing the Chinese that for all the chaos, India can be orderly when required....and we do not need Tanks running over young men or shoot young women in the head to convince them to do the needful.

....

They just tried that tactic with the olympic torch and they still don't get it. Nice to have such idiots for enemies. :lol:


I dont understand the Indian obsession to "fulfill its obligations" or "show the world" its good intentions. Why not an obsession to take care of our interests. Let the world go to hell.

I think we are living in a la-la land, India was humiliated badly. It grovelled and crawled. It is sad that we cannot see it, but the Chinis do see it. That exactly how they want us to behave.

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Postby Rye » 19 Apr 2008 10:31

surinder wrote:
dont understand the Indian obsession to "fulfill its obligations" or "show the world" its good intentions.


Surinder,

That is what you read but that is not what I had in mind when I wrote it (and I just mean that the context is different in your head than it is in mine, so I will try to explain).

IMO, it is not good tactics to openly take on the chinese -- that is not their style, and neither should it be ours...that would be a losing strategy.

Taking on china right now would be too predictable -- the GoI did nothing more or nothing less than the USA and yet you say they "crawled and grovelled".

China is battering its own image without our help, so the benefit of openly antagonizing china seems rather minimal, unless you feel otherwise.

Personally, I think Buddhism has a lot of wisdom in it, and I admire the Tibetan peoples. All this dumping on Buddhism on this thread is just ridiculous.

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Postby Karan Dixit » 19 Apr 2008 11:29


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Postby Karan Dixit » 19 Apr 2008 11:34


Tawang MLA slams ban on anti-China protests in Arunachal


http://www.indianexpress.com/story/298762.html

(Freedom of speech, as long as it does not hurt the country should be allowed. What we need to ban is Communism and militant Islamism not peaceful protests.)

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Postby Suraj » 19 Apr 2008 13:08

I will never quite understand what all the suggestions of India was deferential to China on the torch relay are about.

Every nation on the relay route had the obligation of arranging its proper passage. Some did it well - like us. Some, like Paris, did not. We did so despite our being the primary home of exiled Tibetans, with all the attendant potential for trouble.

There are three possible options we had:
a) Conduct the event efficiently, with everything under control.
b) Decline to host the relay.
c) Host the relay and deliberately permit chaos.

I find (a) to be the best option. Why ? Because it shows we can not only organize the event effectively (which we're obliged to regardless of who is the Olympic host), but more importantly, that we can at the same time give our open society every option.

Those who wished to decline from the relay - like Bhutia - did so to their credit. Those who chose to participate regardless, did so, without any trouble, flanked by Indian security. Those who wished to protest could do so; preventive arrests of a few troublemakers regardless. All this without any major public disturbance, or any last minute route changes. Absolutely, the security was high - it had to be, considering how controversial the relay had become worldwide. The security also had the added benefit of underlining just what a public relations disaster this relay has become for China.

Ultimately, results alone matter. We conducted the event flawlessly. I don't care to read anything into the Chinese Olympic head's compliment. From my perspective, it takes a degree of insecurity to see if as a 'condescending pat on the head'. That may be how some see it, but not me.

I'd have found it offensive if the Chinese Olympic head had been anything less than absolutely profuse in his praise. Why ? Because *they* eff-ed up. Their being a bunch of numbskulled morons in Tibet cause worldwide outrage, and they made the torch relay a gigantic public order liability upon every nation in its path. It's because of their stupidity that every nation on the relay route now dreads the arrival of the torch, and sighs with relief at its departure. It's just as well that the Olympic head overdid the hyperbole, babbling about how he wished we conduct the Olympics in 2020. I'd have been inclined to respond "Ok beta, now go give your headache to the Thais (or whoever is next on the path)".

As I said, there are three options we could have chosen. We chose one, and we did it very well. For those who see it differently, I urge you to clearly explain *what* we should have done, and *why* it would serve our interests. Don't mix up multiple options. Any option hypothetically chosen ought to address how it would have been done in a manner that left us in good light.

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Postby Venkarl » 19 Apr 2008 15:38

hnair wrote:
Venkarl wrote:^^^^

with due respects..why bring IPL in Tibet thread? :roll:
already this thread has become fightclub between 3 gentlemen.


Before your eyes roll off the sockets....
no comments

1) PLA uses olympics to try and attain parity with the west
2) India never bothered, but believed in its people. The west respects that and gave us this elusive parity in a platter.

Points noted

IPL references are purely incidental and illustrative. I am not going to get into any argument over Shah Rukh's goras played better or Mallya's goras played better. But I am happy that the above said goras keep a lot of us entertained and earn their keep :)


Good for this thread. :)

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Postby vsudhir » 19 Apr 2008 17:24

Rye wrote: IMO, it is not good tactics to openly take on the chinese -- that is not their style, and neither should it be ours...that would be a losing strategy.

Taking on china right now would be too predictable -- the GoI did nothing more or nothing less than the USA and yet you say they "crawled and grovelled".

China is battering its own image without our help, so the benefit of openly antagonizing china seems rather minimal, unless you feel otherwise.

Personally, I think Buddhism has a lot of wisdom in it, and I admire the Tibetan peoples. All this dumping on Buddhism on this thread is just ridiculous.


Ok.

It all depends on what you mean by 'taking on the Chinese'. A terse statement from the MEA 'rejecting China's criticism of India's handling of' the Tibet/Torch relay/ Democratic dissent/ Dalai Lama issue would go a long way in assuring the people of this country (and that includes its armed forces, paramilitaries like that Tibetian garrison that fought alongside us in BD), and other stakeholders in the system the confidence that GoI respects itself and hence is worthy of being taken seriously.

Or is that too much to ask for?

Banning protests in Arunchal? What signal does that send, to whom and to what noble purpose? I'm sure there's some realpolitik explanation somewhere that I'm missing.

Don't get me wrong, nobody's saying go out of your way in picking up a fight. But don't vacate your stand on principle and territory at the first application of chini pressure.

Hey, JMTs etc. Take it easy janta.
/have a nice day, all.

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Postby Kalantak » 19 Apr 2008 18:13

Anti-China protests at Olympic torch run in Bangkok
Apr 19 05:04 PM
BANGKOK

About two hundred China supporters taunted pro-Tibet demonstrators as the Olympic torch was paraded through Bangkok amid tight security on Saturday.

Police pushed back several people who tried to advance beyond barricades to counter demonstrations by scores of activists angry at China's human rights record and rule over Tibet.

A crowd dressed in red waving China flags gathered outside the regional headquarters of the United Nations, chanting pro-China slogans as the demonstrators held aloft banners saying "no torch in Tibet" and "one world, one dream, free Tibet".

"They are killing many Tibetans, like animals," said one protester, who had "free Tibet" scrawled on his bare chest.


A police helicopter hovered overhead as the torch and runners began their 10.5-km relay in the city's China Town, watched by Olympic marshals and tightly escorted by police patrols and motorcycles.

The parade got underway without incident with crowds cheering as the symbolic flame made the short journey towards the golden-spired Grand Palace.

"We, Thailand, confirm our pure intention to separate politics from sport and give our support to China for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing," deputy prime minister Sanan Kajornprasart, told the crowd.

State television in China made no mention of the protests in its report :D on the relay in the Thai capital, saying that it received a rapturous welcome.

"There were no disharmonious voices :rotfl: ," the report said.

Several thousand police have been drafted in to protect the parade route, which has not been altered by security chiefs despite the planned demonstration.

MALAYSIA RUN

Malaysia announced on Saturday it will deploy police commandos to beef up security for Monday's run through Kuala Lumpur. They will escort the torch bearers over the 16.5-km route, newspapers said.

There were some early signs of concerns on Friday after about 20 followers of Falun Gong, the religious group outlawed by Beijing, protested peacefully outside the Chinese embassy in Kuala Lumpur.

"We are prepared to counter any form of disturbance from anyone or any organisation," the Star newspaper quoted the city's police internal security chief K. Kumaran as saying.

The official China Daily on Saturday quoted French ambassador to China, Herve Ladsous, as saying he regretted what happened on the Paris leg of the relay, and would like to meet the disabled Chinese athlete targetted by protesters there.

"I deeply regret what happened," he said.

"I hope I can meet Jin Jing in person to show friendship and my deep regret," Ladsous added, referring to the disabled athlete, who has rocketed to national fame in China after fending off anti-China protesters in Paris.

The Olympic Games take place in Beijing from Aug. 8-24.

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 19 Apr 2008 18:23

The Other Chinese Olympic Torch heads for its destination

ANYUT JIANG , QUANGZHOU, headed for Angola with weapons to help flee erections in Zimbabwe

.. South Africa's High Court ruled Friday the cargo could be offloaded in the Durban port, but it could not pass over South Africa roads to get to Zimbabwe, a country in crisis because of an election stalemate.

Durban's dockworkers also said they would not handle the cargo, fearing the arms would be used by the Zimbabwean government against its own people.

..arms had almost certainly been shipped to Zimbabwe through Durban in the past, but the size of this shipment -- "more than a million pounds" and 3.5 million rounds of rifles, small arms, mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades -- made it more noteworthy....

The Chinese Foreign Ministry issued a statement in a fax to the Reuters news agency saying that China and Zimbabwe have normal trade relations, that the Chinese government takes a "prudent and responsible" position on arms deals and that it does not involve itself in the internal affairs of other countries...


That's what I admire about the Chinese Commies. PANCHSHEEL. Non-interference in internal affairs.

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Postby Rye » 19 Apr 2008 19:31

vsudhir, I am not saying that the GoI has handled this perfectly or that I know what their intent was in their response. But if we break down the possibe responses, it seems to make sense. They could have (a) publicly made a bold statement (b) made a wishy-washy "diplomatic" statement (c) say nothing.

The problem with (a) is that it could be used by the chinese and the west to spin the event against India's interests -- the Chinese are prepared for a negative reaction from us, and would probably use it for negative propaganda that would be hard to counter, given that the CCP controls all access to chinese citizens. I think India did (b) or (c) -- but won't pretend to know how all of this should be handled, but the GoI did what it had to do I am sure.

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 20 Apr 2008 01:17

The argument that India need not be less PRC-friendly than the US, does not wash. It was not the US that the Tibetan refugees fled to, and it was not the US that was then invaded by the communists. It is not the US where Buddhism was born, and it is not the US where the Free Tibetan government resides.

GOI could have made sure that media coverage focused on the protests, not on the actual run of the PLA Torch, citing "security". Also, SHOULD have firmly and publicly refused permission for any PLA goons to set foot in India. What would the PRC have done? Cancel the run in India? win-win.

The term "Finlandization" comes to mind. Angrezi for "dhimmitude".

Of course, elsewhere we see reports of GOI actually "daring" to renovate an airstrip on Indian territory. Oooooo!!!

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Postby Gerard » 20 Apr 2008 01:39


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Postby enqyoobOLD » 20 Apr 2008 01:51

'The Flame of Shame'
April 19, 2008
The torch episode seemed completely like a private Chinese party. It was a torch of tyranny and a flame of shame," claimed Tensin Choeyingo, president of Students for Free Tibet.

He was speaking about the Olympic torch relay in New Delhi. The relay, carried out under a massive security blanket, ended without any untoward incidents.

Guarded by as many as 17,000 security personnel, the Beijing Olympic PLA Goon torch was taken through a 2.3 km stretch in Delhi on Thursday. For over five hours, the majestic Rajpath was turned into a security fortress with the Prime Minister's Office and Ministries of Defence, External Affairs and Finance lining the torch route from Rashtrapati Bhavan, shut down.

Breathe there the twerp with soul so dead
Who never to itself has said:
"This is a fraud, a shame on my land"
Who didn't refuse to hold in its hand
The torch of shame of the communist band
That runs tanks over children in their own land?

If such there breathe, go mark them well..


Has-been Loser Dhimmies
Milkha Singh,
Leander Paes,
Mahesh Bhupati,
Aslam Sher Khan,
Dhanraj Pillay,
Zafar Iqbal,
Wilson Cherian,
Khazan Singh,
K Malleswari,
K Kunjurani,
Bishen Singh Bedi


(BISHEN SINGH BEDI? I am devastated.)took part in the event.

Tinsel town was represented by loser dhimmi actors
Aamir Khan and
Saif Ali Khan.


The public was kept out and all the access roads to the historic stretch was cut off for several hours to ensure a smooth passage of the Communist Goon torch relay, which was earlier plagued by disruptions in London, San Francisco and Paris.

With the area in and around Rajpath out of bounds, hundreds of Tibetans took out a parallel torch relay run from Rajghat, the samadhi of Mahatma Gandhi, to Jantar Mantar, which has been the epicentre of Tibetan protests over the past several days.

The protestors carried Tibetan flags, placards and banners with messages such as 'Azad Tibet, Surakshit Bharat' and 'Free Tibet'.



They should have run the commie torch in Old Delhi, and the Torch of Freedom down Rajpath.

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Postby Keshav » 20 Apr 2008 02:32

Sorry for OT:
What does "Surakshit Bharat" mean?

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Apr 2008 02:34

Keshav wrote:Sorry for OT:
What does "Surakshit Bharat" mean?


Secure India

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Postby Karan Dixit » 20 Apr 2008 02:36


TOKYO: The blue tracksuit-clad Chinese security guards who have followed the Olympic torch around the world will not be welcome in Japan when the flame arrives within days.


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/04/ ... -Torch.php

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Postby Karan Dixit » 20 Apr 2008 02:44

Those western countries that allowed liberal influx of Chinese immigrants are seeing the consequences now. Ethnic Chinese in western countries are coming out in support of Chinese thug regime and denouncing those western countries that offered them good lives and shelter from oppression. This is why I do not like to mix liberation of Tibet with liberation of Chinese people.
Liberation of Chinese people is China's internal affair but liberation of Tibet is a world affair.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 356172.stm

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Postby Karan Dixit » 20 Apr 2008 02:50


Tibet's government-in-exile, based in India, says up to 140 people were killed in a crackdown by Chinese security forces since anti-China riots began two weeks ago.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7323803.stm

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Postby Karan Dixit » 20 Apr 2008 03:13

Chinese citizens in France are simply abusing the French generosity. France does not have to allow these rallies organized by Chinese thugs in Beijing. It is a clear attempt by thugs to blackmail France. My suggestion for France would be to find some legal means to ban this nonsense.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/04/ ... -China.php

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Postby Neshant » 20 Apr 2008 03:58

In case anyone is in any doubt or illusion as to Hindi-Chini bhai bhai, burn this into your mind clearly :

Image

Image

http://friendsoftibet.org/main/execution.html

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Postby Anantha » 20 Apr 2008 04:22

Karan Dixit wrote:Those western countries that allowed liberal influx of Chinese immigrants are seeing the consequences now. Ethnic Chinese in western countries are coming out in support of Chinese thug regime and denouncing those western countries that offered them good lives and shelter from oppression. This is why I do not like to mix liberation of Tibet with liberation of Chinese people.
Liberation of Chinese people is China's internal affair but liberation of Tibet is a world affair.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 356172.stm


After the Tianamen square massacre, thousands of Chinese students got greencards in the US citing persecution by the PLA thugs. While Indian students struggled for 2-3 employed in low paying jobs, the Chinese were given Green cards in a plate by the US. The same Chinese have turned against the nation that freed from oppression.
Time has come to tackle this menace.
The olympics is the modern version of "peace in our lifetime".

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Postby Kakkaji » 20 Apr 2008 05:27

Swapan Dasgupta's take, in the dailypioneer.com. Posting in full, as the URL is not archived:

The fortified gauntlet of shame

Swapan Dasgupta

To call it farcical would be a perverse misreading. What was witnessed in the centre of Delhi last Thursday afternoon was an outrage. At the behest of a regime that increasingly resembles the hosts of the 1936 Berlin Olympiad, the Government of India played its role in defiling the Olympic movement. Qu Yingpu, the spokesman for the Olympics torch relay, was being entirely truthful when he boasted to Xinhua news agency that the Rajpath run would be an "unforgettable" day for the Indian torch bearers. For decades to come, many of these noble sportsmen and sponsor-driven filmstars will curse the day they were misled or bamboozled into running through the fortified Gauntlet of Shame. There was nothing remotely resembling the "Olympic spirit of peace, friendship and progress" in the 2.3 km stretch from Raisina Hill to India Gate. The Delhi run was a crude, flag-waving, propaganda exercise for China. In co-sponsoring it, India lowered itself to the level of Musharraf's Pakistan.

For Beijing the transformation of Lutyens' Delhi into a Forbidden City was a political triumph it flaunted to its own people through its state-controlled media. But what did signify for India? It is one thing to honour a commitment and ensure that the Olympic torch was not violated, as happened in London and Paris. It is a separate matter to ensure "safe passage" (a quaint expression hitherto reserved for fugitives and terrorists) by re-enacting what the Rowlatt Act sought to do in Amritsar in 1919.

The entire 'torch zone' was declared a no-go area for Indians and, of course, Tibetans. The only ones - apart from security personnel, some pom-pom girls and three busloads of unfortunate schoolchildren - allowed into the sanitised zone were the representatives of those who have acquired sole proprietary rights over the 2008 Olympics - six busloads of Chinese nationals. These special people (akin to the Europeans the Punjab administration exempted from crawling on their bellies) waved super-sized Red Flags with gusto and displayed posters denouncing the Dalai Lama, President Sarkozy and CNN. And while this grotesque assault on the Olympic spirit was being undertaken, Doordarshan ran a commentary that equated the event with the Republic Day parade.

There were two parallel displays of arrogance on Rajpath last Thursday. There was the triumphalist Chinese displaying a we-don't-give-a-damn-for-what-the-world-thinks sneer. And then there was Indian officialdom with its exemplary show of Vichy complicity.

After the Emergency, it was famously said of many Indian editors that "when asked to bend, they crawled". On Thursday, the Government of India demonstrated the same fawning, over-zealousness before the People's Republic of China. Somewhere in the nerve centres of the Middle Kingdom, they will be calculating what this show of Indian servility implies for China's hegemonic ambitions. In other parts of the world, they will be asking whether their faith in India becoming a counter-weight to China in Asia was based on fantasy.

There is only one formidable obstacle in the path of the Chinese steamroller in India: civil society. Last Thursday's Chinese overkill has ended up converting more people in India to the cause of the Dalai Lama than ever before. Unfortunately, worldwide concern for the plight of Tibetans in China has merely become a handle for Beijing to bolster Han arrogance and nationalism. Far from the Olympic protests being a mellowing influence, popular xenophobia may actually end up reinforcing Chinese intransigence.

Should the democratic world, therefore, try a different tack? Far from it. Tibet has become the symbol of global concern over China's reckless unconcern for the norms of decency that go hand in hand with economic progress. Thanks to the Dalai Lama, it is also a powerful moral symbol.

The Olympics are a sporting event but China is determined to make it an assertion of its political arrogance. It has to be resisted. And what better than for the world outside Beijing to fly the Tibetan flag proudly and ostentatiously throughout August? Even the Government of India can't dare stop that.

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Postby vsudhir » 20 Apr 2008 06:31

Clicky

Framed foto in the hall of shame.

/Or should it be the hall of shame-shame?? Thought you couldn't sink any lower than Fanaa, Aamir miyan. Looks like you've a loooong way to go. Shame-shame!

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Postby Sanjay M » 20 Apr 2008 07:06


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Postby enqyoobOLD » 20 Apr 2008 07:23

Instead of whining about, say, how Confucianism diluted the fine traditions of Chengis Khan, the Chinese DO something when they get mad:

[quote]For the moment, however, most of the outrage is confined to the Internet.

1. More than 20 million people have signed online petitions saying they plan to stop shopping at the Carrefour chain, Louis Vuitton and other stores linked to France because of what they see as the country’s failure to protect the torch during its visit to Paris two weeks ago. In a survey released on Friday, China’s state news agency, known as Xinhua, said 66 percent of those who responded said they would stay away from Carrefour during a monthlong boycott planned for May.

2. Public indignation has also been directed at Western news outlets, which are blamed for one-sided coverage of the torch relay and for anti-Chinese bias in their reporting on the disturbances in Tibet. In recent days, foreign news outlets here have been swamped by angry phone calls;

3. [b]two music videos circulating on the Internet blast CNN with expletives and lyrics like, “Don’t think that repeating something over and over again means that lies become truth.â€

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Postby vsudhir » 20 Apr 2008 14:04

LA Protests target CNN for 'anti-Chinese' remarks

Throngs of Chinese Americans protested outside CNN's offices in Hollywood on Saturday morning, calling for the dismissal of commentator Jack Cafferty, whose recent remarks about Chinese goods and China inflamed a community already angry about international condemnations directed at the host country of the upcoming Olympic Games.

The protesters lined Sunset Boulevard from Cahuenga Boulevard to Wilcox Avenue chanting "Fire Cafferty" and "CNN liar" and singing the Chinese national anthem and other patriotic songs. They waved Chinese, American and Taiwanese flags and directed their anger at the news channel's dark glass tower.

"It's really unacceptable," said John He, an organizer of the event. "It maliciously attacks all Chinese. This would not be accepted if it was directed at any other ethnic group."


Wow. Those must be some reeeeeally horrible remarks, eh? Turns out the chini diaspora is resetting expectations about how they expect to be respected/ treated in the world. The following, for instance, is not acceptable....

On the April 9 airing of "The Situation Room," Cafferty said of America's relationship with China: "We continue to import their junk with the lead paint on them and the poisoned pet food and export . . . jobs to places where you can pay workers a dollar a month to turn out the stuff that we're buying from Wal-Mart. So I think our relationship with China has certainly changed. I think they're basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they've been for the last 50 years."

CNN later said Cafferty's comments were directed at the Beijing government.

"In this occasion Jack was offering his strongly held opinion of the Chinese government, not the Chinese people," a CNN spokesman said in a statement. "It should be noted that over many years, Jack Cafferty has expressed critical comments on many governments, including the U.S. government and its leaders."


Wow.

Dunno if desi diaspora could ever be conjured up in these miraculuous numbers on saturday in. say, Bay Area or NYC to protest GOTUS life-support to TSP, for example. But hey, an increasingly confident Chinese are leading the way in educating us third-worlders about how to hit back at western media hitjobs, psy-ops and depiction of ugly realities....

Who knows where this is going. If the cheen-west shadow boxing over the olympics dents western ability to costlessly cr@p all over Asia, I'd say twont be a bad start for the years ahead. Just speculating is all onlee....

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Chief Tibet separatist clamors for suicide - Chinese News

Postby joshvajohn » 20 Apr 2008 14:58

comments - Chinese are in pathetic condition about developing a terror image for Tibetians just to eliminate the remaining Tibetians in Tibet. They seem to be succeeding it. I think it is right time that India gets a tough stand saying The human rights issue in Tibet has to be addressed by China. India thinks that China has helped India by not raising issues of Kashmir and other North East issues but in reality they supplied all long range missiles to Pakistanis through South Koreans and Nuclear knowhow by training the Paki scientists. This is clear interference of China in South Asian matters. It is time to solve Tibetian issue once for all. India needs to say it straight regardless of your good gestures at present, You have developed terrorism in Pakistan and thus hurt India in every possible way. IT is time that China gets out of Tibet and so the problems in South Asia settled in a long term basis.





Chief Tibet separatist clamors for suicide attacks to seek "Tibet independence"
www.chinaview.cn 2008-04-20 06:07:43 Print

ROME, April 19 (Xinhua) -- Cewang Rigzin, president of the separatist "Tibetan Youth Congress" (TYC), has preached seeking "Tibet independence" through suicide attacks.

"Maybe it is time now for the 'Tibetan People's Uprising Movement' to use the means of suicide attacks to carry on the struggle," Cewang Rigzin said in an interview with Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper recently.

It was time to change the "tactics of struggle" as "there are opportunities for the Chinese to take advantage of the line of non-violence," the TYC head said in the interview made in Dharamsala, India.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 012622.htm

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Postby Karan Dixit » 20 Apr 2008 15:13


KATHMANDU, Nepal (CNN) -- Nepal has given its security personnel permission to shoot pro-Tibet demonstrators during China's Olympic flame climb to Mount Everest's summit early next month.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... cnn_latest

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 20 Apr 2008 16:45

Dunno if desi diaspora could ever be conjured up in these miraculuous numbers on saturday in. say, Bay Area or NYC to protest GOTUS


Related, more relevant question: How many desis were in the Dlagon's plotests? VinayLalAssociateProfessorOfHistoryAtUCLA, and all his co- "FOIL" Cheeni Panthankaraya types? The Pakistan American Association ?

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Postby Tilak » 20 Apr 2008 17:19

X-Posted:

India must speak out
17 Apr 2008, 2247 hrs IST,Tarun Vijay

[quote] Ian Martin is a favourite cultural czar of the strong western Christian lobby who considered it prudent to station him during the tumultuous period when a new Christian dominated country like East Timor was being carved out of Indonesia. He was secretary general of Amnesty International and has also served in Bosnia-Hercegovina. His best known book is Self-determination in East Timor.

As was in vogue during the liberation theology days in Maharashtra's Talasari area where Marxists and the Jesuits carried out a joint programme authored by the World Council of Churches, Martin is dividing Nepal into smaller identities. He is also working with the Maoists to ensure they stay in power and their aides are fully integrated into Nepal's Army, Armed Police Force and the Nepal Police. There is great resentment against this move among the loyal Nepalese forces which are disciplined and well-groomed and have recruited members after rigorous tests, interviews and verification of antecedents.

On the contrary, the new entrants to these forces – the Maoists – are simple rogues who were inducted into the Maoist PLA either through compulsion or by selling them false dreams. Their induction into the regular Nepalese army will not only seriously affect the morale of the patriotic forces but give an immense boost to the terror outfit of Maoists to retain their hold on the governance and administration through newly-inducted Maoist soldiers in the state force.

Martin has been issuing statements and giving interviews each day like an extra-constitutional head or the correctionist interceptor. And instead of limiting himself to the monitoring of elections, he is becoming a self-appointed initiator of 'security reforms' and 'inclusion of marginalised sections'. The Maoists have compromised with the pride and self-esteem of the nation by demanding in their 23-point Comprehensive Peace Agreement that elections be held under UN supervision. This implies that the Nepalese people are not capable of holding elections to their own constituent assembly.

The UN Security Council established the United Nation's Mission In Nepal (UNMIN) under Resolution 1740 (2007) for one year with a clear mandate to monitor the Maoist ceasefire and assist elections to the Constituent Assembly. [b]But under Martin, UNMIN has made people wonder about its real motives. Martin began direct talks with the rebel Madhesi groups, gave special interviews and issued press statements about including[color=darkblue] “marginalizedâ€

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Postby Tilak » 20 Apr 2008 17:41

Stephen Hadley Free Nepal!
:Youtube:

National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley on ABC's This Week, April 13, 2008


Us National Security advisor.. :lol: :roll:
Last edited by Tilak on 20 Apr 2008 17:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Kalantak » 20 Apr 2008 17:44

joshvajohn wrote:but in reality they supplied all long range missiles to Pakistanis through South Koreans and Nuclear knowhow by training the Paki scientists.


New gyan is provided by joshvajohn everyday. In other thread he is calling for a division of TamilNadu otherwise... Visiting BR and reading his comments provides more entertaintment than visiting other unmentionable forums.

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Postby vsudhir » 20 Apr 2008 17:57

China urges 'calm' as chinese boycott of Carrefor spreads (IE)

BEIJING (AP) -- China appeared to be trying to rein in a growing nationalistic fervor, urging its citizens to be "calm" and "rational" in the face of anti-Western protests against French retailer Carrefour that spread Sunday to more cities across the country.

Carrefour has been accused of supporting the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader and head of its government-in-exile - a charge the company has denied, saying it has never supported any political or religious cause.


I'd be lying if I said I'm not impressed. Maybe in another 20-30 yrs time, India would have grown the b@lls and the economic weight to penalize those who spit on India's face elsewhere while making money here...

But something tells me protests in PRC are possible only with CCP support. This could well bethe same thugs and agencies organising the protests just like after thge Embassy bombing in Serbia, miraculuously 1000s of protestors took to the streets or in the protetss against Japan, etc. There's a pattern here.

More than 1,000 people carrying banners gathered for the second day in Xi'an in front of the Carrefour outlet, chanting "Oppose Tibet Independence," "Go China," and "Condemn CNN," the official Xinhua news agency reported. Demonstrations were also staged in the northeastern city of Harbin and the eastern city of Jinan.

A front-page editorial in the People's Daily newspaper, the official mouthpiece for the Chinese Communist Party, called on people to cherish patriotism "while expressing it in a rational way."

"As citizens, we have the responsibility to express our patriotic enthusiasm calmly and rationally and express patriotic aspiration in an orderly and legal manner," the commentary said.

The commentary seemed to point to rising anxiety among China's leaders about a growing anti-Western backlash, fueled by anger over recent demonstrations against in Paris, London and San Francisco during the Olympic torch relay. The relay has become a magnet for demonstrations against China's rule in Tibet and its human rights record.


Wow. I do hope Delhi's watching. Another generation down the line, we could and should be big enough to not take BS lying down. Till then, watch and learn.

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The Tibetan Dilemma

Postby Kalantak » 20 Apr 2008 19:00

Excellent writeup on the Tibetan issue by kamath.

The Tibetan Dilemma
By M.V. Kamath

There are some things that India can do in the international sphere and some things that India cannot do and should not, and it should know the difference especially in the case of Tibet. China claims that Tibet has always been part of its territory, a claim that is debatable. In pre-industrial times when communication was difficult and China itself was fragmented Tibet had largely been left to itself. But when the Communists finally came to power in Beijing, one of the first things that the People’s Liberation Army did in 1950 was to occupy Tibet. India had become independent just three years earlier and its government was new to the job.

Nehru had claims to be an expert in international affairs—there was hardly any one in the Congress Party anyway, with any grounding in formation of foreign policy—and Nehru was beguiled. Despite Sardar Vallabbhai Patel’s stern warnings about China’s possible reneging on promises to his Prime Minister on November 7, 1950, India signed a Border Trade Agreement with the euphemestically called “The Tibet Region of Chinaâ€

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Postby Gerard » 20 Apr 2008 19:02

The fortified gauntlet of shame
Swapan Dasgupta

To call it farcical would be a perverse misreading. What was witnessed in the centre of Delhi last Thursday afternoon was an outrage. At the behest of a regime that increasingly resembles the hosts of the 1936 Berlin Olympiad, the Government of India played its role in defiling the Olympic movement. Qu Yingpu, the spokesman for the Olympics torch relay, was being entirely truthful when he boasted to Xinhua news agency that the Rajpath run would be an "unforgettable" day for the Indian torch bearers. For decades to come, many of these noble sportsmen and sponsor-driven filmstars will curse the day they were misled or bamboozled into running through the fortified Gauntlet of Shame. There was nothing remotely resembling the "Olympic spirit of peace, friendship and progress" in the 2.3 km stretch from Raisina Hill to India Gate. The Delhi run was a crude, flag-waving, propaganda exercise for China. In co-sponsoring it, India lowered itself to the level of Musharraf's Pakistan.

For Beijing the transformation of Lutyens' Delhi into a Forbidden City was a political triumph it flaunted to its own people through its state-controlled media. But what did signify for India? It is one thing to honour a commitment and ensure that the Olympic torch was not violated, as happened in London and Paris. It is a separate matter to ensure "safe passage" (a quaint expression hitherto reserved for fugitives and terrorists) by re-enacting what the Rowlatt Act sought to do in Amritsar in 1919.

The entire 'torch zone' was declared a no-go area for Indians and, of course, Tibetans. The only ones - apart from security personnel, some pom-pom girls and three busloads of unfortunate schoolchildren - allowed into the sanitised zone were the representatives of those who have acquired sole proprietary rights over the 2008 Olympics - six busloads of Chinese nationals. These special people (akin to the Europeans the Punjab administration exempted from crawling on their bellies) waved super-sized Red Flags with gusto and displayed posters denouncing the Dalai Lama, President Sarkozy and CNN. And while this grotesque assault on the Olympic spirit was being undertaken, Doordarshan ran a commentary that equated the event with the Republic Day parade.

There were two parallel displays of arrogance on Rajpath last Thursday. There was the triumphalist Chinese displaying a we-don't-give-a-damn-for-what-the-world-thinks sneer. And then there was Indian officialdom with its exemplary show of Vichy complicity.

After the Emergency, it was famously said of many Indian editors that "when asked to bend, they crawled". On Thursday, the Government of India demonstrated the same fawning, over-zealousness before the People's Republic of China. Somewhere in the nerve centres of the Middle Kingdom, they will be calculating what this show of Indian servility implies for China's hegemonic ambitions. In other parts of the world, they will be asking whether their faith in India becoming a counter-weight to China in Asia was based on fantasy.

There is only one formidable obstacle in the path of the Chinese steamroller in India: civil society. Last Thursday's Chinese overkill has ended up converting more people in India to the cause of the Dalai Lama than ever before. Unfortunately, worldwide concern for the plight of Tibetans in China has merely become a handle for Beijing to bolster Han arrogance and nationalism. Far from the Olympic protests being a mellowing influence, popular xenophobia may actually end up reinforcing Chinese intransigence.

Should the democratic world, therefore, try a different tack? Far from it. Tibet has become the symbol of global concern over China's reckless unconcern for the norms of decency that go hand in hand with economic progress. Thanks to the Dalai Lama, it is also a powerful moral symbol.

The Olympics are a sporting event but China is determined to make it an assertion of its political arrogance. It has to be resisted. And what better than for the world outside Beijing to fly the Tibetan flag proudly and ostentatiously throughout August? Even the Government of India can't dare stop that.

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Postby bala » 20 Apr 2008 22:31

The current generation of Han Chinese dispersed around the world are a greater threat to the future than the thugs and goons of CCCP / PLA. Boo to Koo.

How dare the West use the Olympics to China-bash

The Western press sees China through blinders was particularly evident when the riot first broke out in Lhasa and the media immediately upgraded the thugs into freedom fighters.
{delusion runs rampant in these brain washed automatons from Beijing; comrade Koo has forgotten Tiananmen quite conveniently and now calls Tibetians as thugs instead of CCCP/PLA the orginal thugs and goons as CNN Cafferty put it succinctly.}

Perhaps we can hope that as the novelty of a global torch relay wears off and the real Games begin, we can return to the original spirit of the Olympics. That would include sportsmanship, competition and goodwill to all.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
{how about some goodwill to your own countrymen, the Tibetians}

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Postby Gerard » 20 Apr 2008 22:37

Tilak wrote:
Stephen Hadley Free Nepal!
:Youtube:

National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley on ABC's This Week, April 13, 2008


Us National Security advisor.. :lol: :roll:


WTF ? :eek:

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Postby Rye » 20 Apr 2008 22:41

Not just NSA Steven Hadley, even Host George Stephanopoulis is referring to Tibet as Nepal repeatedly! Incredible! :shock:

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Postby bala » 20 Apr 2008 22:46

I guess next Hadley and Stepanapo.. will call for the freedom of Australia, no New Zealand perhaps.

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Postby S.Abhisheik » 20 Apr 2008 23:53

surinder wrote:
Please note that while it is true that Chinese are not motivated by desire to harm Budhism, however Tibetan response *is* colored by Bhudism. This includes everything that Budhism has to offer, including its views on non-violence.



Agreer,
Just saw this link about persecution of buddhists in korea and was stunned to see that their response was well Dharmic.

http://www.geocities.com/~iarf/tedesco1.html.
http://www.buddhapia.com/eng/tedesco/pic1/list.html

PS:I have nothing against Buddhism its just that its pacificism appears suicidal to me.


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