Let us Understand the Chinese

Airavat
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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Airavat » 12 Nov 2009 13:23

China has executed nine men, including eight from the Muslim Uighur minority, for crimes committed during July riots that killed 200 people in far western Xinjiang region. Four months after the riots, Xinjiang remains smothered in heavy security, with Internet access cut and most international calls blocked.

The timing of the executions was not especially fast for China, which puts more people to death than any other country, an estimated 6,000 people in 2007. Politically sensitive cases are often decided in weeks, especially when they involve major unrest and threats to social stability. Most executions are carried by shooting, although some provinces have begun using lethal injection.

The China News Service said another 20 people were indicted on Monday on charges related to the deaths of 18 people and other crimes committed during the riots. All but two of the prisoners listed in the report had Uighur-sounding names, with the others appearing to be Han. "We don't think they got a fair trial, and we believe this was a political verdict," said Uighur activist Dilxat Raxit, who serves as spokesman for the Germany-based World Uyghur Congress that Kadeer leads.

Miami Herald

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Jarita » 13 Nov 2009 08:46

Most people from mainland China think that way

Jackie Chan thinks Chinese people should be controlled

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... se-people/

In rising to the defense of authoritarianism, Mr. Chan created a public relations nightmare for himself. Unfortunately for him, he also said this: “If you’re too free, you’re like the way Hong Kong is now. It’s very chaotic. Taiwan is also chaotic.” People in Hong Kong and Taiwan were outraged and are taking Chan to task. My favorite comment comes from Hong Kong’s Leung Kwok-hung, one of the city’s more prominent politicos, who noted that “Chinese people aren’t pets.”

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Airavat » 13 Nov 2009 08:48

Chingiz Khan and China

That China would so honor Genghis Khan, whose Mongol armies overwhelmed China in the 13th century and ruled it for more than a century, would seem unlikely. But Beijing, in an attempt to keep a close hold on its Mongolian minority, now reasons that since Genghis conquered China, he can be treated as a Chinese hero.

Through the early decades of the 20th century the mausoleum remained a homegrown memorial of simple tents, open only to Mongolians. After the Communist takeover in 1949, though, the winds of official opinion on Genghis Khan shifted rapidly: In the 1950s, the government, in an apparent attempt to solidify the loyalty of Mongolians to the Communist cause, built a modern temple at the site. Then during the Cultural Revolution, Genghis was labeled as a reactionary, and the mausoleum was shuttered and used to store salt.

Today the Chinese government is again trying emphasize "harmony," to use Beijing’s favored phrase, among its ethnic minorities. For Mongolians, that means Genghis Khan is again a hero - but with very Chinese characteristics. He is not portrayed as a barbarian invader, but as a representative of the greater Chinese world, under whom China was part of an empire that, for the only time in Chinese history, defeated Europeans on the battlefield.
Image
The mausoleum, in particular its new renovations, appears oriented towards appealing to Han tastes rather than Mongolian ones. The main temple, for example, was carefully decorated with 1,206 images of dragons on the walls, carved into the ceiling and painted on vases. But dragons are significant to Han Chinese, not Mongolians, as one Han Chinese tour guide pointed out. "Mongolian people like wolves and eagles, not dragons," the guide said. "But you won’t see any wolves and eagles here."

And it’s also the source of bitter irony in Inner Mongolia, which has seen such heavy migration by Han Chinese over the past several decades that Mongolians, once the overwhelming majority on this territory, are now only about 15 percent of its population. "It is like when you have guests," said one Mongolian in Hohhot, who asked not to be named, referring to Han Chinese migration. "At first you welcome them, but ... they stayed too long and now they took over the house."
Last edited by Airavat on 13 Nov 2009 09:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Jarita » 13 Nov 2009 08:49

Essentials of Chinese Philosophy & Culture: Please remember that this is pre cultural revolution. Cutltural revolution has homogenized chinese culture and made is significantly closer to western ethos

http://books.google.com/books?id=_DoyN2 ... le&f=false

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Jarita » 13 Nov 2009 08:51

Airavat wrote:Chingiz Khan and China


And it’s also the source of bitter irony in Inner Mongolia, which has seen such heavy migration by Han Chinese over the past several decades that Mongolians, once the overwhelming majority on this territory, are now only about 15 percent of its population. "It is like when you have guests," said one Mongolian in Hohhot, who asked not to be named, referring to Han Chinese migration. "At first you welcome them, but ... they stayed too long and now they took over the house."



Seems like their modus operandi.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Jarita » 13 Nov 2009 08:53

Rhetoric of the Chinese Cultural Revolution: the impact on Chinese thought ... By Xing Lu

http://books.google.com/books?id=GO5Hrr ... on&f=false

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby RayC » 13 Nov 2009 08:58

Legalism. In Chinese philosophy, the principles and practices of a school of political theorists advocating strict legal control over all activities, a system of rewards and punishments uniform for all classes, and an absolute monarchy.

Though they are largely considered the great Satans of Chinese history, the group of philosophers and administrators known as the Legalists represent a first in Chinese government: the application of a philosophical system to government. And despite their dismal failure and subsequent demonization throughout posterity, the philosophical and political innovations they practiced had a lasting effect on the nature of Chinese government.


Chinese Philosophy

Confucius

Mencius


The basic starting point for the early Confucianists (Confucius and Mencius) was that human beings were fundamentally good; every human was born with te , or "moral virtue." The third great Confucianist of antiquity, Hsün Tzu (fl. 298-238 B.C.), believed exactly the opposite, that all human beings were born fundamentally depraved, selfish, greedy, and lustful. However, this was not an entirely dark and pessimistic view of humanity, for Hsün Tzu believed that humans could be made good through acculturation and education (which is the basic view of society in Europe and America from the eighteenth to the twentieth centuries: humans are fundamentally base and vulgar but can be taught to be good and refined). His pupil, Han Fei Tzu, began from the same starting point, but determined that humans are made good by state laws. The only way to check human selfishness and depravity was to establish laws that bountifully rewarded actions that benefit others and the state and ruthlessly punish all actions that harmed others or the state. For Confucius, power was something to be wielded for the benefit of the people, but for Han Fei, the benefit of the people lay in the ruthless control of individual selfishness. Since even the emperor cannot be counted on to behave in the interests of the people, that is, since even the emperor can be selfish, it is necessary that the laws be supreme over even the emperor. Ideally, if the laws are written well enough and enforced aggressively, there is no need of individual leadership, for the laws alone are sufficient to govern a state.




When the Ch'in gained imperial power after decades of civil war, they adopted the ideas of the Legalists as their political theory. In practice, under legalists such as Li Ssu (d. 208 B.C.) and Chao Kao, the Legalism of the Ch'in dynasty (221-207) involved a uniform totalitarianism. People were conscripted to labor for long periods of time on state projects, such as irrigation projects or the series of defensive walls in northern China which we know as the Great Wall; all disagreement with the government was made a capital crime; all alternative ways of thinking, which the Legalists saw as encouraging the natural fractiousness of humanity, were banned. The policies eventually led to the downfall of the dynasty itself after only fourteen years in power. Local peoples began to revolt and the government did nothing about it, for local officials feared to bring these revolts to the attention of the authorities since the reports themselves might be construed as a criticism of the government and so result in their executions. The emperor's court did not discover these revolts until it was far too late, and the Ch'in and the policies they pursued were discredited for the rest of Chinese history.


Chinese Philosophy

Han Synthesis

Mo Tzu


But it is not so easy to dismiss Legalism as this short, anomolous, unpleasant period of totalitarianism in Chinese history, for the Legalists established ways of doing government that would profoundly influence later governments. First, they adopted Mo Tzu's ideas about utilitarianism; the only occupations that people should be engaged in should be occupations that materially benefited others, particularly agriculture. Most of the Ch'in laws were attempts to move people from useless activities, such as scholarship or philosophy, to useful ones. This utilitarianism would survive as a dynamic strain of Chinese political theory up to and including the Maoist revolution. Second, the Legalists invented what we call "rule of law," that is, the notion that the law is supreme over every individual, including individual rulers. The law should rule rather than individuals, who have authority only to administer the law. Third, the Legalists adopted Mo Tzu's ideas of uniform standardization of law and culture. In order to be effective, the law has to be uniformly applied; no one is to be punished more or less severely because of their social standing. This notion of "equality before the law" would, with some changes, remain a central concept in theories of Chinese government. In their quest for uniform standards, the Ch'in undertook a project of standardizing Chinese culture: the writing system, the monetary system, weights and measures, and the philosophical systems (which they mainly accomplished by destroying rival schools of thought). This standardization profoundly affected the coherence of Chinese culture and the centralization of government; the attempt to standardize Chinese thought would lead in the early Han dynasty (202 B.C.-9 A.D.) to the fusion of the rival schools into one system of thought, the so-called Han Synthesis.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHPHIL/LEGALISM.HTM

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby AdityaM » 13 Nov 2009 09:30

X-posting from viewtopic.php?p=771277#p771277

NSFW .. be careful

Now where is phoonk sundari??

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/08/0 ... ese-style/
But to be fair, it seems some chinese came & helped them

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/08/1 ... ese-style/

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Arihant » 13 Nov 2009 17:44

History as a political tool i best exemplified by the Chinese today. A manufactured, but quite pathetic, story of Chinese ignominy in the hands of Indian troops in British employ is being used as a driver for Chinese anger against India. It is not uncommon, for those who understand some Mandarin, to hear the words "Yindu Ah-San" (a very derogatory usage) being used in the presence of Indians in China (sometimes the abusive language gets far worse). Hotel staff are co-opted into working as "watchers" - one often hears janitorial staff in a Chinese hotel reporting into their radio handsets that "the two Yindu Ah-Sans are on their way out...". The propaganda on the Indian-supported "Dalai clique" gets shriller by the day. One gets a distinct sense of the Chinese populace being psychologically prepared for an upcoming conflict.

There is a sense of racial/"colour" superiority that drives some of this. See thishttp://www.smh.com.au/world/oriental-angel-triggers-china-race-row-20091113-ie3f.html unlikely story from an unlikely source....

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Avinash R » 13 Nov 2009 21:19

^ Good you brought up the matter. Here is a site which is in english and have covered that event mentioned in your link, the commenters dont even spare the girl's mother
http://www.chinasmack.com/stories/shang ... -netizens/
The website is worth bookmarking and reveals many details of chinese life which MSM wont publish.
And also take a look at the fine glossary they have put together. :D

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Airavat » 15 Nov 2009 08:02

Former vice president of the Central Party School of the Communist Party of China, Zheng Bijian said that the principle of "one country, two systems" and "peaceful unification" were established to resolve cross-strait problems left from the civil war through dialogue and negotiation, and to seek peaceful co-existence and development.

"We sternly oppose Taiwan seeking independence, but the Taiwanese people's ideology of loving their hometown and their land and seeking to be their own masters is absolutely not equal to being pro-independence," Zheng said.

eTaiwan

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Jarita » 15 Nov 2009 08:04

Since the key decision makers in China are the elite in the CPC, it might help to describe them and their motivations

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Airavat » 15 Nov 2009 10:33

Image

20-year-old Lou Jing beat out thousands of other young women on "Go! Oriental Angel," a televised talent show. Angry Internet posters called her a "black chimpanzee" and worse. One called for all blacks in China to be deported. "It's sad," Lou said, her eyes welling up as she recalled her experience. "If I had a face that was half-Chinese and half-white, I wouldn't have gotten that criticism. . . . Before the contest, I didn't realize these kinds of attitudes existed."

As China has expanded its economic ties with Africa -- trade between them reached $107 billion last year -- the number of Africans living here has exploded. Tens of thousands have flocked to the south, where they are putting down roots, establishing communities, marrying Chinese women and having children. "In Guangzhou, to be frank, they don't like Africans very much," said Diallo Abdual, 26, who came to China from Guinea 1 1/2 years ago to buy cheap Chinese clothes to ship back to West Africa for sale.

"The security will beat you with irons like you are a goat," he said. "The way they treat the blacks is very, very bad."

Hung Huang, a Beijing-based fashion magazine publisher and host of "Straight Talk," a nightly current affairs talk show says that Chinese racial prejudices extend to the country's own minority groups, including Tibetans and Uighurs -- or anyone who is not ethnically Han Chinese.

Washington Post

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Nov 2009 17:55

^^^ Indians are known as 'kling gwei' (excuse my phonetics) - "black devils", and whites are "gwei lo" (white devils)

the chinese (and japanese) cultures automatically assign negative characteristics to foreigners

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby hulaku » 17 Nov 2009 19:05

They also refer to Indians as A-san & A-cha.

(Yìndù ā sān) - Ethnic slur against Indians. "A" is a vocative, and "san" is three, so "a san" means the third son or third child in a family. So Indians are assigned third-class status by this location.

(ā chā) - Similar to the above, this ethnic slur is common among the Cantonese speaking crowd especially those from Hong Kong and Southeast Asia. Originally referring to the Punjabi "singhs" security force who used to work for the British government during colonial era. Nowadays all Indians and Pakistanis are indiscriminately called "ā chā".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese_profanity

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Babu Bihari » 18 Nov 2009 04:30

The Nine Nations of China

THE YELLOW LAND
(Beijing, Tianjin, Shandong, Hebei, Henan, Shanxi, Shaanxi)
Territory: 906,243 km2 (9% of total)
Population: 359 million (27% of total)
Per Capital GDP: $3,855
Exports as % of GDP: 16%

China was born on the banks of the Yellow River, where the silt-laden water, rich alluvial soil, and the harvested wheat all share the same yellow hue. This is China’s breadbasket where buns, dumplings, and noodles, rather than rice, are standard fare. But the fertile Yellow Land is vulnerable to droughts and floods, as well as jealous invaders. Since ancient times, its inhabitants have turned to a strong central government to keep them safe behind high walls and embankments. In ancient times, the emperor’s yellow robes symbolized his absolute command over the natural forces—earth, water, grain—that ensure life.

===

THE BACK DOOR
(Hong Kong, Macau, Guangdong, Hainan)
Territory: 231,963 km2 (2% of total)
Population: 112 million (8% of total)
Per Capita GDP: $6,910
Exports as % of GDP: 82%

In Chinese, the “back door” refers to a way of doing business outside the normal, approved channels. The South Sea coast is China’s Back Door, far enough from the centers of power that nobody will notice if you bend a few rules. As locals put it, “The sky is broad and the emperor is far away.” Officials who were exiled to Yueh, as this land was once known, found it a fearful place whose inhabitants spoke strange dialects—Cantonese, mainly—and feasted on snakes, cats, and monkeys. But its clan-based villages, lush jungles, and rocky inlets offered ideal shelter for smugglers and secret societies to flourish. Unlike their staid northern cousins, these freebooters learned to take risks and profit from them. Other Chinese regard southerners as clever, sharp, and a bit slippery. But as rebels and renegades, emigrants and entrepreneurs, they infuse much needed flexibility and creativity into an otherwise rigid system.

====

THE METROPOLIS
(Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang)
Territory: 216,008 km2 (2% of total)
Population: 147 million (11% of total)
Per Capita GDP: $6,406
Exports as % of GDP: 58%

Sleek, stylish, confident—Shanghai certainly makes an impression. Its steel skyscrapers look like rocket ships ready to blast off into the future, taking China along with it. Shanghai is a very young city by Chinese standards, but the Yangtze River delta—known in ancient times as the kingdom of Wu—has always been the most commercial and cosmopolitan part of China. Like the Low Countries at the mouth of the Rhine, it is a flat watery land crisscrossed by busy canals linking a constellation of trading cities. The Back Door may succeed in breaking the rules, but only the Metropolis has the wealth and dynamism to entirely reshape them. Its treasure fleets nearly discovered Europe a century before Columbus sailed, and of the Nine Nations, it is the only one to have displaced the Yellow Land—several times—as China’s political capital.

====

THE REFUGE
(Sichuan, Chongqing)
Territory: 569,800 km2 (6% of total)
Population: 110 million (8% of total)
Per Capita GDP: $2,303
Exports as % of GDP: 5%

Tucked deep in China’s interior, Sichuan is a rich agricultural basin the size of France, surrounded on all sides by a ring of nearly impassible mountains. These bamboo-covered slopes are home to the panda, its last refuge from a rapidly encroaching world. For man as well as beast, Sichuan has always been China's place of refuge. Throughout history it has served as a secure supply base for China’s rulers, and a place to retreat and regroup in times of invasion and unrest. In World War II, when Japan occupied all of coastal China, loyalist forces relocated their capital to the Refuge to carry on the fight. During the Cold War, vital industries were purposely located in its remote valleys to protect them from the enemy.

====

THE CROSSROADS
(Anhui, Jiangxi, Hubei, Hunan)
Territory: 707,124 km2 (7% of total)
Population: 226 million (17% of total)
Per Capita GDP: $2,402
Exports as % of GDP: 6%

All of the dynamics driving the first four nations converge in the Crossroads. The middle stretch of the Yangtze is a natural transportation and communications nexus. It is the heart of China, pumping the lifeblood of men and material to every other part along capillaries of water, road, and rail. Interrupt this heartbeat—as a freak snowstorm did last year when it hit the Crossroads during Lunar New Year—and the entire country can grind to a halt. But the region’s central strategic position has never translated into political power. Instead, it has always been a zone of competition among its stronger neighbors, a place for their rival armies to march and fight.

===

SHANGRI-LA
(Yunnan, Guizhou, Guangxi)
Territory: 810,690 km2 (8% of total)
Population: 132 million (10% of total) * 30% non-Han minorities
Per Capita GDP: $1,770
Exports as % of GDP: 6%

The legend of Shangri-La tells of an isolated valley high in the Himalayas, where paradise exists on earth. Local tourism officials claim to have located the real Shangri-La in southwest China, and millions of visitors every year seem to agree. This land is home to some of China’s most iconic and inspiring landscapes: emerald rice terraces, the fairy mountains of Guilin, the raging rapids of Tiger Leaping Gorge. It’s also home to a kaleidoscope of ethnic minorities, usually depicted as singing and dancing in colorful tribal costumes. Throw in a clear blue sky and some banana pancakes, and Shangri-La makes for a heavenly vacation.

===

THE RUST BELT
(Liaoning, Jilin, Heilongjiang)
Territory: 801,553 km2 (8% of total)
Population: 109 million (8% of total)
Per Capita GDP: $3,724
Exports as % of GDP: 15%

Just over a century ago, northeast China—known to the outside world as Manchuria—was a wilderness of dark forests and frigid snow-swept plains. Its only inhabitants were a few hunting and fishing tribes. The foremost of these was the Manchu, which conquered and ruled China as its last imperial dynasty. The arrival of the Trans-Siberian Railroad in 1898 changed everything, unleashing a flood of migrants and pitting Russia against Japan in a battle to dominate the region. The Japanese prevailed, and in 1931, they made Manchuria part of their empire. They introduced industrial-scale farming and built mines, steel mills, and factories.

====

THE FRONTIER
(Inner Mongolia, Ningxia, Gansu, Qinghai, Xinjiang, Tibet)
Territory: 5,205,114 km2 (54% of total)
Population: 86 million (6% of total) * 30% non-Han minorities
Per Capita GDP: $2,928
Exports as % of GDP: 9%

The land beyond the Great Wall has long captivated the Chinese with its aura of danger and romance. Wild Mongol horsemen, silk-laden caravans, and the inaccessible mysteries of Tibet offer a thrilling contrast to the regulated confines of Chinese life. But what really set this region apart are its vast open spaces. The Frontier comprises over half of China’s territory and just 6 percent of its population
(we handed over a big part of this landmass on a platter to the Chinese :cry: ) - a landmass and population density similar to the continental United States west of the Mississippi. Its desolate plateaus, scorching deserts, and snow-capped mountains resemble Nevada or Wyoming more than Beijing.

====

THE STRAITS
(Fujian, Taiwan)
Territory: 160,313 km2 (2% of total)
Population: 59 million (4% of total)
Per Capita GDP: $9,432
Exports as % of GDP: 30%

The 110-mile strait separating Taiwan from China's mainland is one of the world's great flashpoints. So it may seem surprising that the two provinces on either side comprise a single “nation.” In fact, Fujian and Taiwan are like twins separated at birth—linked by heritage, divided by destiny. Fujian has always looked to the sea. Like the ancient Greeks, its inhabitants turned their backs on their rocky soil, venturing out to fish and trade with distant shores. They established colonies all over Southeast Asia, a far-flung network based on dialect and kinship that thrives to this day. Since such voyages were often prohibited by the emperor, the region’s mariners became skilled smugglers. Today, Fujian remains the center of a worldwide traffic in smuggled Chinese immigrants.


There is a very good interactive map which I do not know how to post here, can someone please do it. BTW, that map is designed by a SAJA desi journalist based in Washington DC.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Jarita » 19 Nov 2009 01:19

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 60576.html



Eating A Deep Fried Fish That's Still Alive (VIDEO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 60576.html

Chinese delicacy. Check out the people eating it and the comments below.

There is something abt the chinese. They fry a lot of their seafood alive - crab, toads etc. The cruelty to animals is amazing.
Same with cruelty to human beings - you should read about chinese torture and the treatment they mete out to prisoners. The whole "bodies" exhibition was on prisoners. Organs are taken from prisoners (dead or alive). The country has 5000 of the 5500 executions that take place worldwide.
The spookiest part is that recently creams exported to the US were should to contain human collagen from dead bodies of prisoners.
There is something very sick

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Nov 2009 01:39

Hey as long as Walmart remains the opium of the American masses, the Chinese are free to fry fish or humans.

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby tejas » 19 Nov 2009 02:38

I have seen a video on HBO where a cat shivering in fear within a crate was removed and its skull smashed with a hammer. Profusesly bleeding but still obviously alive the poor animal was thrown into a pot of boiling water by the "chef". Where else would such a delicacy be served up?
You guessed it the PRC.

My revulsion for these people grows day by day. I only wish someday they could be taught a lesson in Chinese Occupied Tibet (COT). Perhaps new artillery could be acquired by the IA before Rahul beta becomes a grandfather

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby Jarita » 19 Nov 2009 03:02

Folks,
One movie all interested in understanding the contemporary Chinese mind must watch is

Farwell my concubine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell_M ... bine_(film)

From what I have heard it was banned for the longest time in PRC. Even today, only a heavily edited version is allowed. Pls make sure you get the unedited version. The movie is tough to wtach (nothing physically gross is shown) because of the rot in the psyche it alludes to.
Please watch it.
It also has the lovely Gong Li in it

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby anishns » 19 Nov 2009 03:22

Jarita I am not a chinese sympathizer, however it is inappropriate to blame just the chinese....
There are some wierd kinky food practices undertaken by other cultures as well including whites

In Quebec there is a delicacy made from liver, where they overfeed a duck/goose until it's liver explodes

Also, our own country's animal rights record has been far from exemplary...

I had recently posted a video of a black bear being beaten to death by sticks and stones on live TV in Assam and the uniformed officers just stood watching. Also, there was a case in Bombay a couple of years ago when a bunch of young, drunk miscreants beat up a pregnant stray dog to death...

There is something wrong with mankind as a whole....although, a few cultures are more barbaric than others


Jarita wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/17/eating-a-deep-fried-fish_n_360576.html



Eating A Deep Fried Fish That's Still Alive (VIDEO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 60576.html

Chinese delicacy. Check out the people eating it and the comments below.

There is something abt the chinese. They fry a lot of their seafood alive - crab, toads etc. The cruelty to animals is amazing.
Same with cruelty to human beings - you should read about chinese torture and the treatment they mete out to prisoners. The whole "bodies" exhibition was on prisoners. Organs are taken from prisoners (dead or alive). The country has 5000 of the 5500 executions that take place worldwide.
The spookiest part is that recently creams exported to the US were should to contain human collagen from dead bodies of prisoners.
There is something very sick

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Re: Let us Understand the Chinese

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Nov 2009 04:36

I am sorry but there is no equivalence here.

India has a strong societal and religious compunction to accord animals a place in the web of life. Possibly driven by their incarnation beliefs. A prototypic idea of energy flux in the biosphere? Much like the ten avatars of Vishnu demonstrate prototypical ideas of evolution.

Note that there were animal hospitals in India two thousand year sago. The fact some Indians have fallen so far as to sell other humans does not detract from the above.

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby santoshriyer » 21 Nov 2009 16:50

Rahul M wrote:
ashish raval wrote:The only place India is ahead of chinese is English, movie making and IT (thanks to britain and visionaries). Otherwise we are behind chinese in every aspect which requires imagination.

you really have no idea. :lol: ask anyone in academia who has to read papers coming out of the mainland and you will get an idea of the state of higher education in the PRC.
I am sure it's not a race issue, but it most certainly is a social or cultural issue in a habitually autocratic country.
China makes everything for world right from panty liners to providing rare metals for US precision weapons to fuel cell batteries of next-generation cars.

no doubt the PRC economy is far ahead at the moment.
but of the commodities you mention, which are exactly cutting edge ones developed in china ?
whatever high technology items are produced in china is done by MNCs using their own tech
.


Thats exatly the case. And the MNC's now a days dont trust the chinese with detailed design and validation procedures for technology intensive commodities. They simply dont trust them

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Prasanth » 21 Nov 2009 17:12

santoshriyer wrote:
Rahul M wrote:
no doubt the PRC economy is far ahead at the moment.
but of the commodities you mention, which are exactly cutting edge ones developed in china ?
whatever high technology items are produced in china is done by MNCs using their own tech
.

Thats exatly the case. And the MNC's now a days dont trust the chinese with detailed design and validation procedures for technology intensive commodities. They simply dont trust them
[/quote]



That's the point, they don't trust them but they still invest, even in cutting edge processes. I had always find it intriguing how they did it. I realised they were forcing foreign MNCs to first establish and transfer tech before any access is granted into their market. The first few years, everything is OK, superb sales, after they understand the processes, you will suddenly see a new Chinese competitor.

An example, Intel was supposed to use 90nm for their fab in China, now they are upgrading it to 45nm. GE is sharing co-production of avionics for large passenger planes, the latest avionics and it's for EXPORT too. Toyota even produce their hybrids there.

Again, as before, the majority of their tech base is from the MNCs, but please bear in mind, they had also develop some cutting edge tech in electronics and telecoms. I had posted that before, so I won't want to repost.

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby harbans » 21 Nov 2009 17:37

Always felt a bit for miners, but this seems to happen so regularly in China..

Beijing, China (CNN) -- An explosion at a coal mine in northeastern China killed at least 11 workers and trapped nearly 128 underground early Saturday, state-run media reported.

The blast happened at about 2:30 a.m. (1830 GMT) at the Heilongjiang Longmei's Xinxing mine, operated by the Hegang company. As of 9:36 a.m., 389 of the 528 workers had reached the surface, state media reported.

A preliminary investigation indicates that the cause was a gas explosion, the Chinese News Service reported.

The blast hit about 10 km from Hegang City.


http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiap ... index.html

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Viv Sreenivasan » 21 Nov 2009 17:49

I dont see why we cant have a constructive realtionship with China. We may never really be friends but is the US and China friends? They still have a huge trading relationship. We being China's neighbours should benefit from their economic growth.

I have noticed that many rakshaks have what is termed a 'zero sum game' point of view, ie if China becomes more powerful and influential then India automatically loses. This does not have to be the case. There can be a win-win scenario where through an extensive trade relationship and foreign investment we both can get ahead. I realise that there exists atm a large trust deficit. This first needs to be addressed.

Im not being naiive btw. I believe that we should always remain on guard against the Chinese. (one of the reasons why the artillery fiasco could cost us dearly). But we should also engage with them economically and politically. China is NOT PAKISTAN which is turning out to be more and more a rogue state like North Korea.

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Prasanth » 21 Nov 2009 18:36

harbans wrote:
Nothing new here. The Chinese have always been -civilizationally speaking- ahead of us. You need to remember that historically the concept of India really only came into being with the Mughals who controlled most of what is modern day India. The concept of China is much older. Also if you list technological inventions the Chinese are ahead. They invented everything from paper to gunpowder. China is a historical superpower. Its reign was interrupted by the rise of Western powers in the last few hundred years but now it is returning to what it sees as its rightful place that being at the top table.


Utter and sheer crap. On what basis do you remark that China has been historically always 'civilizationally' ahead of India? Specially when it's Indian values and culture and civilization that have had a profound effect on most of Asia. Read Fa Hseins travels in India in the 5th century and see how he even got back to China. On an Indian ship, Bengal, Andamans, Indonesia, Khambuja, Guangzhou. Indian ships were able to travel then to China, Japan. there is no evidence that Chinese had ships that came here. As for gunpowder, the use of saltpetre in India was very well known for god knows how many years.


Harban,

I had no idea how advanced their technology is, but just because they admire a great Indian thinker, doesn't mean their whole civilization is based on us. Always remember, a civilization must always absorb new ideas to flourish, others that do not have culture will get assimilated but China is one of the oldest civilization on earth, as old as Indus. We were part of the 4 cradle of human civilization. When the Mughals conquered us, we too absorb many cultural influences from Central Asia, even Hindi was a Turko-Persian dialect.

SEA on the other hand is definitely based on Indic civilization.

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Atri » 21 Nov 2009 18:47

Viv Sreenivasan wrote:Nothing new here. The Chinese have always been -civilizationally speaking- ahead of us. You need to remember that historically the concept of India really only came into being with the Mughals who controlled most of what is modern day India. The concept of China is much older. Also if you list technological inventions the Chinese are ahead. They invented everything from paper to gunpowder. China is a historical superpower. Its reign was interrupted by the rise of Western powers in the last few hundred years but now it is returning to what it sees as its rightful place that being at the top table.


The first mention and definition of Bhaarat comes in Vishnu-Purana.. Scholars date it from 300 BC to 100 BC.. This is the first text which says that the land from Himalayas to ocean is Bhaarat..

The idea of India has been evolving.. Check out this link - Sapta-Sindhu and Bhaarat - The evolution of concept of India

The Core concept of Bhaarat was around today's Punjab, Sindh and NWFP (Initial stages of Rigveda).. Then by later stages, Entire NI Indo-gangetic plains were referred to as land of Aryas and Sapta-Sindhu..

Even further, entire subcontinent became the land of sapta-Sindhu (by the time of MBH and Vishnu-Purana)..

The core concept of India is as old as 2500 BC, when there were very few similar concepts. The concept of modern and complete India is since the days of MBH and Vishnu-Purana (around 300-100 BC). The core concept of China started arising in 100 BC with qin dynasty..

Regarding superpower, I do not know the parameters.. Is world domination == super-power? OR is having largest economy, and largest share in world-market sign of superpower, depends upon how one defines it. If it is latter, then India was undoubtedly largest economy until 1680 AD. from 1680 to 1818, india became second largest.... After 1857, everybody knows.. So if a region of earth which was top economy for about 4800 years, and rabidly poor since 1857 do you call that region/country/civilization as perpetually poor, or do you call it just a cycle of time..

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 21 Nov 2009 18:59

Sreenivasan sir might do well to read about the history of china in some depth.

if we consider the historical china to be minus todays xinjiang and tibet, then only in very small parcels of time has all provinces been ruled by a single emperor. its no different from eras like gupta or maurya or maratha in indian history where one 'entity' controlled much of the country and unconquered territories paid tribute in exchange for a loose independence.

generally the northern peoples - han, mongol and manchu have formed most of the powerful and long lived dynasties and they certainly considered the southern sdre chinese not as a homogenous cloud but inferior mleccha :mrgreen:

the most sdre provinces guangdong, fujian and zhejiang have the long time centers of trade, ideas, openness and business friendly governance in china - not the tfta han and manchus who eat wheat rotis and bite on grilled meats.
Last edited by Singha on 21 Nov 2009 19:03, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby karthik » 21 Nov 2009 19:00

They say the West and USA in particular are pro democracy and are fighting for the spread of democracy around the world but all through USAs diplomatic history they have supported China and Pakistan over India, there whole diplomatic history has been a sham of hypocrisy! First they allowed all the business to migrate to china, a communist nation and then they supported a puppet military run democracy called pakistan and now they have the gaul to tell us that China should interfere in South Asia as an responsible power!

Is there no end to your idiocy United States, you have made an communist nation a better example to follow than a democracy that you left to lurch in poverty and the US bombs countries in the name of democracy can there be any more of an bad marketing for democracy!! If you cant bomb any more atleast you should have the sense to make better examples of Democratic countries that the region would like to follow!!

Its time we said US to stop using the name of democracy and speaking for the rest us before they completely run the ideology to the ground! :evil:

If Uncle Chow gets carried away and interferes we should derecognizance Tibet so their claim for Arunachal Pradesh and Akshi Chin ends logically. If they persist then we should send all these Refuges to form a human shield and enter Tibet where they will be joined by other Tibetans. Are they going to arrest and shoot millions of Tibetans at once!

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Atri » 21 Nov 2009 19:01

PRC is neither capitalist, nor communist state.. It is merely a Han Chauvinist state.. Han Chauvinism is the only state policy which is permanent, rest changes and is disposable.. When communism suits for preservation of this chauvinism, its chosen, and same goes for capitalism... they won't even mind trying democracy, if they are sure that han chauvinism will be preserved and benefited by doing that..

Raju

Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Raju » 21 Nov 2009 19:25

the origin of Chinese culture starts with the infusion of ideas from the Naga dynasty of India ..

buddism was the second wave

A SINO-INDIAN PERSPECTIVE FOR INDIA-CHINA UNDERSTANDING

Tan Chung
http://ignca.nic.in/ks_41019.htm
---------------------------------
The Enduring Sacred Landscapes of the Naga
Mayoury and Pheuiphanh Ngaosrivathana

http://www.mekongpress.com/reviews/naga-landscapes.html
---------------------------------

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 21 Nov 2009 21:04

afair didnt china boot out taiwan from UN and get a P5 seat together in 1971 or thereabouts?

after fission first test around 1960? they kind of exploded a H-bomb in record time just around 2 yrs later? (or the Rus gave them one)

I think its a myth that India was 'offered' a sec council seat by anyone. granted both india and china were weak economies - but prc had exploded the H-bomb, fought against both the USSR and USA and still had their head in place, and generally made it known it was lot cheaper to accomodate it inside the tent than cost of keeping it out. so a seat was found for them inside the tent.

india gave free lectures at NAM and was a good boy. so a pat on the back, building up of Pak, and shabashi from the bwana was all we got :rotfl:

unless we relentlessly raise the cost of opposing us and keeping us outside the tent, we
shall continue to command little fear and respect.

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Guddu » 21 Nov 2009 21:38

Prasanth wrote:csharma,

Standards define a technology. And now they have both. I do not think it's a simple case of using existing research paper. What they are doing is complex and unique but not groundbreaking. We have not done anything, so we cannot judge it's merit.


Writing standards is no big deal. The Chinese do it because they have large markets. When they write their standards, the world is forced to supply technology (directly or indirectly) to the Chinese to comply with them. India could write its own standards, but the world is not yet making a beeline for India. Its like those electric plugs, every country has its own design. In the process you can support national business and keep out foreigners.

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Prasanth » 21 Nov 2009 21:46

Singha wrote:afair didnt china boot out taiwan from UN and get a P5 seat together in 1971 or thereabouts?

after fission first test around 1960? they kind of exploded a H-bomb in record time just around 2 yrs later? (or the Rus gave them one)

I think its a myth that India was 'offered' a sec council seat by anyone. granted both india and china were weak economies - but prc had exploded the H-bomb, fought against both the USSR and USA and still had their head in place, and generally made it known it was lot cheaper to accomodate it inside the tent than cost of keeping it out. so a seat was found for them inside the tent.

india gave free lectures at NAM and was a good boy. so a pat on the back, building up of Pak, and shabashi from the bwana was all we got :rotfl:

unless we relentlessly raise the cost of opposing us and keeping us outside the tent, we
shall continue to command little fear and respect.


Well, no idea how they achieved the H-bomb explosion but we do know it happened after Sino-Soviet split. As for the UN membership, Pakistan actually had a role in it. They were the ones that passed the message to US to form an alliance against the Soviets. Henry Kissinger actually went to China secretly from Pakistan. The floodgates of China was opened by Deng in 1980, it wasn't until 1989 that US tried to sever ties due to Tiananmen, but ultimately, it was the dismemberment of the Soviet Union that made them turn against the Chinese. They just don't have any use anymore after the Soviets were gone. There were CIA reports on funding pro democracy groups in China prior to 1989.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations

There was wide speculation throughout the 1960s and early 1970s that the United States' close ally, Pakistan, especially under the presidency of Ayub Khan, was carrying out undercover diplomacy to instigate Western support to the PRC's entry into the UN. This involved secret visits by American officials to the PRC. In 1971, Henry Kissinger made a secret visit to the PRC through Pakistan.


History is really interesting. Today's China was created by America. Initially, America only wanted to us China to counter the Russians. But Deng cleverly took the opportunity to open up to capitalism, inviting American tech and investment. After 1989, when they were dispensable, they again persuaded America with their cheap labour. Later, after becoming American slave labor, they started creating their own cheapo SOE export machine. Today's China is 50% SOE and 50% MNC. By systematically exporting below cost at first, they destroyed many of their South American, SEA cheapo competitors. By nw, literally every single crap is made there. And now they wanna do outsourcing too :twisted:

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Re: India-China News and Discussions

Postby Prasanth » 21 Nov 2009 22:00

Guddu wrote:
Prasanth wrote:csharma,

Standards define a technology. And now they have both. I do not think it's a simple case of using existing research paper. What they are doing is complex and unique but not groundbreaking. We have not done anything, so we cannot judge it's merit.


Writing standards is no big deal. The Chinese do it because they have large markets. When they write their standards, the world is forced to supply technology (directly or indirectly) to the Chinese to comply with them. India could write its own standards, but the world is not yet making a beeline for India. Its like those electric plugs, every country has its own design. In the process you can support national business and keep out foreigners.


Guddu,

You don't just write standards. You need to get the underlying science researched first before you can even define a standard. Think of standards as science but in legal terms upheld by the individual governments. Technology is defined as the application of science. In this sense, technology is an application of standards.

Btw, all companies can produce based on that standard, they just need to pay the royalties and get licensing approval. As far as I know, most domestic Chinese companies produce the chips for the Chinese standards. They allow in foreign JV for competition.

Who says India can't do it? It's just that we didn't do it! The Chinese again, planned, organized and executed.
Last edited by Prasanth on 21 Nov 2009 22:03, edited 1 time in total.


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