Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

vsudhir
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby vsudhir » 24 Feb 2009 06:39

Is schadenfreude purer if the Germans do it? From Der Speigel's excellent english website:

The steep decline in the British economy

As the global economic crisis takes hold, hardly any other country has seen its fortunes wane as brutally as the United Kingdom. Once a model economy, the country has been overcome by a deep sense of uncertainty.


And like they say about images == 1000 words and all...
Image

Ummmm, lez return a li'l bit of the love the $hitish hacve showered on us poor SDREs in the past 2 centuries....take it apart piece by piece onlee....oh,m schadenfreude!!!

Ash Akhtiar, who works for an employment agency in a Birmingham suburb, says that he wants to see someone pay for all of this.


Why Ash, someone will pay. The taxpayer, that is. And if you aren;t a TSP/BD welfare moocher, you will too. Happy?

David L., a banker who, fearing for his job does not wish to see his name in print, is considering buying a gun to protect his family.


Good luck with that, David. Ukstani laws criminalize armed self defence by aam aadmi. Perhaps you should consider welding brass plates round your neck, you know, to protect against beheadings and what not?

Philip Augar, a financial expert, tries to explain how his country could have become so dependent on banks and loans, while bestselling author Tony Parsons says that the upheaval the United Kingdom is experiencing is as serious as the fall of the Berlin Wall. {You mean, the fall of the soviet empire? Sure, UKstani honeymoon with imperial loot coming to a close was overdue}

The current mood in Great Britain is gloomy. Long Europe's most successful economy, Britain's fortunes have since plunged more than those of almost any other European country. {What? More than even Ukraine which saw GDP contract 20%?! Or dya mean 'em east euro-peons aren't euro-pean nuff for ya?}

Unemployment is rising twice as fast as the European average. Two million people have already lost their jobs, a number that could rise to three million by the end of the year. According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the British economy will shrink by 2.8 percent in 2009, the greatest projected decline among the seven largest industrialized nations. {Really? More than even Japan's annualized 12.9% projected contaction? This reporter ought to check its facts onlee}


More and more people are losing their jobs, and more and more are coming to see Akhtiar. "You can see the desperation in their eyes," he says. "They realize that things are different now, and that they won't get new jobs after only a few weeks." {Hey, what happened to the stiff upper lip and all?}
...
The British welfare state, its reach narrowed by a succession of reforms, only offers about £60 ($85) a week in unemployment benefits left to those who have been laid off. The unemployed are often forced to give up their apartments or houses, because many are deeply in debt and can no longer afford to make their monthly mortgage payments. Someone in Great Britain loses their home once every seven minutes. {Too bad. Perhaps, they can join the BNP and oust a few large paki BD 'asylummed' families occupying govt housing in London, then?}


Ten years in the financial industry have made him a wealthy man, with a house in the exclusive Kensington neighborhood, four children in private schools and a wife who wears handmade Manolo Blahnik shoes.

Nowadays, says David L., he sometimes feels nauseous with panic. He imagines a future in which many people are poor and angry, people who could even break down his door in Kensington and enter the house. He has even been thinking about ways to protect his family.


It looked as though Great Britain had created an economy of the future, but in reality it had become dependent on an increasingly bloated financial sector. Even though it generated only 8 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in the best of times, the financial sector provided the government with a quarter of all corporate taxes. The number of Britons working in the financial sector grew from 4.4 to 6.5 million in the good years.


When Tony Blair came into power in 1997, his Labour government did not reverse any of Thatcher's neoliberal reforms. On the contrary, Labour even loosened the reins on the financial caste a little further.

"The effect the financial industry had on the economy was like a big stone thrown into the water," says Augar. The waves of artificial affluence spread to include lawyers, consultants, shop owners and restaurants. Most of all, however, they drove up the real estate market, where prices almost tripled in only 10 years, making people feel rich. {Wow, 'em tommies reeeally were living upto the Yamerikhan dream, eh?}

"Rising house prices," says Augar, "gave the consumers confidence to spend money, to borrow money. Actually, the whole boom was based on debt." This conclusion helps to explain why the British economy is now in so much trouble. When it comes to debt British private households, having accumulated £1.5 trillion ($2.1 trillion) in debt, are at the leaders in Europe.


The words of Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who only last year insisted that the United Kingdom was better prepared for the global crisis than most other countries, sound like a mockery today. :rotfl: Few Britons still believe that Brown is the right person to lead the country through the crisis.


In Great Britain, new borrowing will comprise 9 percent of GDP in the coming year. According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, it will take the United Kingdom until 2030 to bring its national debt back to pre-crisis levels. Some are already referring to London as "Reykjavík on the Thames." :eek:


The negative numbers have also weighed heavily on the British pound, which has lost 17 percent of its value as a result of the recession, the currency's sharpest decline since 1992. Major US investor Jim Rogers warns: "I don't like to say it, but I wouldn't invest any more money in Great Britain."

Instead of being the "sick man of Europe" it was in the 1970s, Great Britain, as the Times predicted, is fast becoming the "sick man of the world." The country is firmly in the grip of deep uncertainty.

"We have become a 'fear nation,'" says author Tony Parsons. "Everyone is afraid: the people, the banks, everyone."


Moi suggests 'em $shitish read up a tad on the effects of accumulated bad karma onlee...

But it's too late now. Parsons says that he has never known of so many people in his social circle who have lost their jobs. "Thatcher had riots in the streets with three million unemployed. Gordon Brown, or David Cameron, will experience the same thing." And those who do have money, like Parsons himself, will soon be pleased about the security guards they have in front of their houses. "We have a Gurkha in our neighborhood, a former elite soldier. Perhaps it'll be like South Africa here soon."


But so what, blimey me....we're still doing better than 'em slumdawgs squatting amid squalor in India's sweltering wasteheaps, no? Lets count our blessings and tease some turd-world slumdawgs for a change... Onwards to the movies!

P.S.

Std disclaimers hold. No offense intended. In fact, moi takes this opportunity to reiterate my undying admiration for great $hitain and the games it once played with the lives and livelihood of peoples in moi country.

Peace!
Last edited by vsudhir on 24 Feb 2009 07:30, edited 1 time in total.

Arya Sumantra
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Arya Sumantra » 24 Feb 2009 06:46

Tech is the game amid financial, economic uncertainty

Which sector has better chances for survival? Some say tech but i think the ones that are globally spread out and preferably present in uncorrelated markets are most likely to do better. Companies like Coca-cola, Nestle, Unilever etc will survive no matter what. Just my thoughts

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby svinayak » 24 Feb 2009 08:11

ss_roy wrote:Do not confuse wealth and money. The brits transfered money out of India, not wealth. They created wealth with that money.

I hate to say it, but bankrolling the european industrial revolution with indian money, has ultimately lifted more indians out of a subsistence existence than any indian kingdom or dynasty (hindus or muslim). For all their looting, the brits used that money to advance science and technology. Now we use it for our own ends.

It is the Indian captive market and Indian raw material which created the monopoly for the GB to dominate the European states.
It was need based advance in S&T to compete and dominate other euro states from 1600. The competition among the European states especially with Bismark Germany between 1850-1900 which created the condition for rapid innovation. Germany without significant colonies was able to catch up to GB.
Large scale famine deaths in India upto 40miilion (1800-1900)are mainly due to this competition to squeeze the profits.

Indian kings (after the 10th century AD) never built universities, schools and big civil engineering projects other than their palaces. They never tried to advance and systematize science or develop technology. The fuated nny thing is that India had both the brainpower and agnostic culture to keep on advancing. Indian philosophy - astik schools, as well as nastik schools, are far closer to rationalism and agnosticism than the monotheistic religions. But the majority of our ancestors chose to favor bhakti and emotion over reason and logic.

Whether it is maths, algebra, calculus, metal working, medicine, alchemy- there were always enough indians to have kept us in the front. But our ancestors made poor choices, let us not repeat them.


Most of the changes came after 1200-1500 AD by which time India was a colonized country. It is all need based innovation which bring progress. There are certain reasons in the nature of the Indian economic system.
Indian economic system in the middle ages was like a "farm" type and it was not the "hunter" type and hence it has long sustaining power but cannot adapt to hunter type competition. Colonization and mercantile competition are only dominant in the last 300 years. The Euro zone moved rapidly only from 1700-1900 with colonized dominance.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Singha » 24 Feb 2009 08:38

I saw a book wherein the writer was saying commodities and gold were the only place to be for the next decade. and he had modified BRIC to BRAC - brazil russia australia and canada - the four most resouce rich countries per capita.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ss_roy » 24 Feb 2009 09:26

I think you are forgiving our homegrown merchants who actively participated in those genocides- to make a few more bucks.
Famines in India were mainly caused by indian merchants exporting grain to make a bigger profit during droughts. The brits gave them the tools (rails, ships, sepoys), but it is was indian merchants who ultimately let millions starve to make a few pieces of gold.

Large scale famine deaths in India upto 40miilion (1800-1900)are mainly due to this competition to squeeze the profits.


I disagree... Indians stopped innovating because of a basic human flaw- hubris. Cultures that have been successful for a long time take their position as ordained and are loathe to change the status quo and innovate. Indians fell into that trap sometime between the 5th and 10th century AD. The west fell into that trap in the last 30 years.

Indians could have competed, and overtaken the rest, at anytime until the mid 1800s.. but they chose to ignore the changing reality and retreat into their belief shells and social divisions. They spent more time on trying to create more defeatist bhakti based bulls**t, stick to traditional occupations, maintain the status quo and refuse anything new and foreign.

Think about it, why were most artillerymen in the maratha kingdoms muslims? Could they not find or train competent hindus? Why did south indian kingdoms never go beyond 'mysore' rockets, when spin stabilized rockets were eminently doable? Mercury fulminate could have been easily manufactured by indian rasayan vaidyas.. and might have been known to them- but did we put 2 and 2 together and create percussion cap based black powder long gun?

Why? Not because we lacked brains.. What we lacked was the will to change. The west did not start with a stable reference point and were therefore more ameanable to change and innovation.

Most of the changes came after 1200-1500 AD by which time India was a colonized country. It is all need based innovation which bring progress. There are certain reasons in the nature of the Indian economic system.
Indian economic system in the middle ages was like a "farm" type and it was not the "hunter" type and hence it has long sustaining power but cannot adapt to hunter type competition. Colonization and mercantile competition are only dominant in the last 300 years. The Euro zone moved rapidly only from 1700-1900 with colonized dominance.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ss_roy » 24 Feb 2009 09:30

They are not superpowers as long as they can be easily depopulated. Brazil, Australia and Canada are therefore not superpowers.

Russia has always been a major power. Resources belong to whoever lives in that country and modern technology makes population replacements rather easy.

I saw a book wherein the writer was saying commodities and gold were the only place to be for the next decade. and he had modified BRIC to BRAC - brazil russia australia and canada - the four most resouce rich countries per capita.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Singha » 24 Feb 2009 10:13

excerpt from WSJ - desi MBA studiers in top massa b-schools would take a hit unless they can land a hedge fund/non-finance job..but with 1000s of hedge funds predicted to go under...


---
"While we are suffering through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, the very least we can do is to make sure that banks receiving a taxpayer bailout are not allowed to import cheaper labor from overseas while they are throwing American workers out on the street," said Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Vermont independent who pushed for the restriction.

Mr. Sanders's office estimates that major U.S. banks employed at least 1,200 foreign workers under the program in 2006. Other critics say the total number hired in recent years is likely several times higher. A list of companies receiving H-1B visa approvals in 2007 included J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. (236) and Goldman Sachs & Co. (224) among the top 30, and Lehman Brothers Inc. (135), Merrill Lynch & Co. (131) and Morgan Stanley & Co. (119) among the top 100. The visas typically are for three years but can be extended to six.

Another sponsor of the restriction for bailed-out banks, veteran Sen. Charles Grassley (R., Iowa), is planning further legislation to tighten up the H-1B visa program as well as other visa programs for temporary workers. He is working with Sen. Richard Durbin (D., Ill.). A spokesman for Sen. Durbin said the intent isn't to reduce the number of H-1B provisions, but to shut down abuses.

One big concern for critics of the H-1B program is the practice of some companies that function as temporary-employment agencies, bringing employees to the U.S. and putting them to work for other companies. Sen. Grassley says these employers can locate in areas of the country such as his home state, where prevailing wages are low, and then underpay workers they assign to California's Silicon Valley or other high-wage regions.

But concern over the H-1B program itself appears to be rising. Sen. Sanders is considering additional legislation that would prevent companies engaged in mass layoffs of U.S. workers from importing cheaper labor from abroad through temporary guest-worker programs, a spokesman said Friday.

As originally proposed, the stimulus bill's provision would have barred bailout recipients from hiring foreign H-1B workers altogether. But it was watered-down in last-minute negotiations, amid protests by businesses.

Business advocates argued that in 2007, less than 1% of the workers at major U.S. financial institutions were H-1B visa holders. "At a time when the economy is striving to rebound, barring U.S. companies access to the most qualified job applicants ... will hinder recovery," the U.S. Chamber of Commerce argued in a letter to senators on Feb. 5.

Instead of barring H-1B workers, the stimulus law temporarily increases the number of procedural hurdles that banks and other bailout recipients must clear. It also gives the government much greater ability to scrutinize companies' hiring practices when it comes to the foreign workers.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Neela » 24 Feb 2009 12:40

ss_roy wrote:Famines in India were mainly caused by indian merchants exporting grain to make a bigger profit during droughts. The brits gave them the tools (rails, ships, sepoys), but it is was indian merchants who ultimately let millions starve to make a few pieces of gold.


"Mainly"? Really? Bengal has had more famines, not just in 1943. Oh and Bengal was the first province that was given by Akbar to the East India company for trading rights in the 1700s.

I disagree... Indians stopped innovating because of a basic human flaw- hubris. Cultures that have been successful for a long time take their position as ordained and are loathe to change the status quo and innovate. Indians fell into that trap sometime between the 5th and 10th century AD. The west fell into that trap in the last 30 years.

Indians could have competed, and overtaken the rest, at anytime until the mid 1800s.. but they chose to ignore the changing reality and retreat into their belief shells and social divisions. They spent more time on trying to create more defeatist bhakti based bulls**t, stick to traditional occupations, maintain the status quo and refuse anything new and foreign.


Nothing between the 5th and the 19th centrury eh?
Mathematics? Astronomy? Architecture? Medicine? No? Chola conquests of Far East? No? Shipping? No?



:roll: Why bother?

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby svinayak » 24 Feb 2009 12:52

ss_roy wrote:Famines in India were mainly caused by indian merchants exporting grain to make a bigger profit during droughts. The brits gave them the tools (rails, ships, sepoys), but it is was indian merchants who ultimately let millions starve to make a few pieces of gold.


You need to get yourself updated

Late Victorian Holocausts: El Niño Famines and the Making of the Third World (Paperback)
by Mike Davis (Author)

# Paperback: 470 pages
# Publisher: Verso (July 2002)
# Language: English
# ISBN-10: 1859843824
# ISBN-13: 978-1859843826

Mike Davis' Victorian Holocausts was to me a real eye opener. This in spite of the fact that I have read about the history of British India, one of the areas treated in the book. It is really an indictment of the way history is presented by mainstream historians and an indictment of journalists, who perpetuate the myth of the beneficial effects of British domination in various parts of the world. Just recently, Niall Ferguson, the noted British historian was quoted as saying that on the whole, British rule has been good for the countries affected. It is probably fair to say that Davis' book makes it clear that any beneficial effects of British rule, in India for example, were accidental. The book is admirably written and researched. It is especially noteworthy that there is no exaggerated language used, such as in more well-known holocaust literature, in describing the horrendous occurences in the various parts of what we now know as the third world. Finally, throughout my reading of the book, I could not help recall the fact that Queen Victoria, the icon of beneficial, benign British rule was presiding over much of these horrific happenings. This book has been long overdue. I highly recommend this book to all who are interested in "real history" rather than national mythologies.


One of the major perennial topics of research in the social sciences is "Why are some nations rich and others poor?" Tackled from the time of Plato onwards, many texts have been written on this subject, from many points of view. Like the other sciences, the huge advances in metrology, analytical techniques, and data collection, manipulation and visualization using computers in the 20th century has helped scientists connect dots that once were thought unlinked. And so answers to this question have become more comprehensive, more factual-based, and more pressing in the amount of evidence brought to bear. This book attempts to answer this question by examining the economic divergence of the world's major civilizations in the approximate period of 1860 - 1920 AD. The civilizations examined include Brazil, Indonesia, France, England, the USA, Philippines, India, China, Ethiopia, and Russia. Specifically, England, France and the USA underwent huge economic growth and subsequent improvements in the standard of living, while China, India and many other parts of the world descended into Third World status that have lasted until the late 20th century.

The author examines data for these countries such as suspot cycles, birth and death tolls, annual rainfall, sea temperatures, acres farmed and acres abandoned by farmers, and economic transaction data such as trade volume between specific agents (i.e. countries). Looking at all of this, the author puts forth the theory that abrupt weather patterns due to El Nino and La Nina occurrences in this time period substantially weakened the agricultural sectors of numerous countries. This occurred as technological progress in transportation and communication was creating the global economy with humans (slaves), clothing, precious metals, and food produce (crops) being the primary objects of trade. The weakened countries, nearly all of which were centralized monarchies, were colonized by the First World democracies. Within specific nations like the USA and Brazil, one region might rise in prominence vis-a-vis a decline in another region. The results included gradual but radical changes in power structures that lead to famines in times of poor agricultural output. The poor agricultural output was due to bad weather and the forced transitions to cash crops; the famines was caused by evil colonial policies. The final tragedy was tens of millions of dead peasants across the world in what is now known as the Third World.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ss_roy » 24 Feb 2009 19:42

What changed under british rule that made famines more likely? Were there ever enough british in India (%) to force Indians to do anything?

The most overlooked major change under british rule was the ability of indian merchants to access international markets and sell their products at a higher price. Combine that with law enforcement by indian sepoys and you get a situation where the grain was forcibly collected, hoarded and shipped overseas to make a bigger profit for the indian merchants and the east india company. Of course, it also caused millions to starve to death since the poor farmers had no surplus left behind to tide them over bad years.

The basic mechanisms operating behind the irish famine and indian famines (under the brits) are rather similar.

The big issue, in my opinion, is the culpability of indian merchants and sepoy types who enabled this mass murder. They willingly collaborated in starving millions of people who looked like them, to make more money and please a few foreigners.

Why did famines, under the brits, not occur uniformly in all parts of india? Why did the worst famines occur in bengal, bihar, orrisa and andhra? Why did famines of similar intensity never occur in karnataka, maharashtra, gujrat, rajasthan, punjab?

Think about it- maharashtra, gujrat and rajasthan are largely semi-arid regions unlike where these man-made famines occurred. The worst famines in maharashtra, gujrat and rajasthan occurred during the coolest periods of the 1600s (bad weather + mughal rule or war). Famines also occurred at the same time in China (brought down the Ming Dynasty) and In Europe (caused a lot of misery there too).

There are another proxies for regions that suffered the worst famines under the brits such as

1. time under previous direct muslim rule
2. percentage of muslims in the population
3. a buddhist inspired past

1943 was caused by a complete administrative f**kup.

"Mainly"? Really? Bengal has had more famines, not just in 1943. Oh and Bengal was the first province that was given by Akbar to the East India company for trading rights in the 1700s.


I am very aware of the role of global cooling and el nino on indian monsoons. The worst monsoon failures in indian history have always occurred when the earth was cooler than today. Global warming has always been associated with better monsoons, rain and conditions in India, China and Europe. Hopefully global warming continues.

Having said that, global cooling and el nino systems are no excuse for merchants starving their own people to make a few more bucks. The majority of deaths that occurred in famines under the brits were preventable.

Late Victorian Holocausts: El Niño Famines and the Making of the Third World (Paperback)
by Mike Davis (Author)

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ss_roy » 24 Feb 2009 19:52

Common features of 19th-century famines in India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famines,_Epidemics,_and_Public_Health_in_the_British_Raj

There was no overall (aggregate) food shortage in India, although there were localized crop failures in the affected areas. The localized crop failures were in fact essential for the occurrence of the famine.[2]

The starvation deaths occurred among certain economic classes, which included landless laborers, artisans and petty traders and which constituted anywhere between 35% and 50% of the rural population.[3]

India's agrarian economy during this time was still a non-monetised exchange economy.[4] Agricultural laborers were either paid in kind (foodgrains) or partly in kind and partly in cash; similarly, artisans and service-workers were regulated by the Jajmani system, which consisted of a reciprocal social and economic arrangement between different castes in a village, and in which payments were made in the form of a fixed share in the harvest.[4] Consequently, for a large proportion of the rural population, the available food supply depended on their "employment entitlements," or the demand among the primary (landed) food producers for their services, and this demand was the first to be affected in times of food shortage.[5] A crop failure, therefore, could create a famine, not because it led to an aggregate shortage of food, but because it deprived a significant proportion of the population of the means to acquire food.[3]

In some cases, foodgrains were still being exported from the famine affected region during the time leading up to (and sometimes even after) the famine began.[3]

Foodgrain prices during the famine years in the affected areas were higher, but not spectacularly higher, than during normal years.[3]

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby svinayak » 24 Feb 2009 23:19

ss_roy wrote:
The basic mechanisms operating behind the irish famine and indian famines (under the brits) are rather similar.

The big issue, in my opinion, is the culpability of indian merchants and sepoy types who enabled this mass murder. They willingly collaborated in starving millions of people who looked like them, to make more money and please a few foreigners.

Why did famines, under the brits, not occur uniformly in all parts of india? Why did the worst famines occur in bengal, bihar, orrisa and andhra? Why did famines of similar intensity never occur in karnataka, maharashtra, gujrat, rajasthan, punjab?


I dont buy your arguements.
I have to question whether you know colonial history

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby SRoy » 24 Feb 2009 23:39

Acharya wrote:
ss_roy wrote:
The basic mechanisms operating behind the irish famine and indian famines (under the brits) are rather similar.

The big issue, in my opinion, is the culpability of indian merchants and sepoy types who enabled this mass murder. They willingly collaborated in starving millions of people who looked like them, to make more money and please a few foreigners.

Why did famines, under the brits, not occur uniformly in all parts of india? Why did the worst famines occur in bengal, bihar, orrisa and andhra? Why did famines of similar intensity never occur in karnataka, maharashtra, gujrat, rajasthan, punjab?


I dont buy your arguements.
I have to question whether you know colonial history

Why don't you refute by facts.
His assessment is alright, if you are able to digest the fact that our "colonial history" also include our own black sheeps.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby svinayak » 24 Feb 2009 23:43

SRoy wrote:
Why don't you refute by facts.
His assessment is alright, if you are able to digest the fact that our "colonial history" also include our own black sheeps.

SRoy,
This discussion was done in BR several years ago. The book I quoted is a good starting point and has all the facts and reference points in good depth. Once discussion start from those facts then conclusions can be made.
Dont worry about the history of "our own black sheeps" . They are also included in the discussions.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ss_roy » 25 Feb 2009 00:39

Acharya,

All f**kups in human history have two sources- external factors and internal factors.

I am suggesting that we should assign due blame to external factors. However it is also important to understand the internal factors. Internal factors are easier to fix and modify than external factors. The same behavior patterns that abetted the famines under british rule are at work in India today.

Whether it is news reporters who fawn over the west, 'intellectuals' who act as agents of the west, bureaucrats who do not want to reform, politicians who want to maintain the status quo, religious leaders who want to keep their followers poor or intelligent people who accept the status quo- we have not learned the lesson.

The whole point of intelligence is being able to admit that you made a mistake, find out the reasons behind that decision and not repeat it.

Consider the current financial collapse.. India is very well positioned to take advantage of this situation. But the vast majority of our leaders, opinion makers, media and 'intellectuals' cannot seem to think for themselves. Rather than take a newer path and exploit this situation to our advantage, we are stuck with cliches about philosophy, traditions, social mores and attitudes.

The reality is that we cannot exploit this situation without giving up both the traditional indian and the west-worshipping viewpoints. Both are antiquated.. we have to be more objective, rational and adaptive. However we seem to be reading out from older and irrelevant scripts.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby svinayak » 25 Feb 2009 02:36

ss_roy wrote:

Consider the current financial collapse.. India is very well positioned to take advantage of this situation. But the vast majority of our leaders, opinion makers, media and 'intellectuals' cannot seem to think for themselves. Rather than take a newer path and exploit this situation to our advantage, we are stuck with cliches about philosophy, traditions, social mores and attitudes.

I agree with you on current situation. What you are describing is the current intellectual stagnation in modern India due to sub-par education and a media which does not create India point of view of the outside world. Media and Education has to be fixed in India for your plan to work. I have been saying the same thing.

The same behavior patterns that abetted the famines under british rule are at work in India today.

I agree. The degradation of the political class in India is approaching the Colonial British ruling class.


we are stuck with cliches about philosophy, traditions, social mores and attitudes.

It is the sub standard intellectual class which is stuck with cliches but others draw from the traditions to look into the future.
Last edited by svinayak on 25 Feb 2009 02:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby vsudhir » 25 Feb 2009 02:48

Part of where the west went wrong in the past 40 yrs is that they hollowed out the core of their rational, moral and intellectual tradition to superficial pretences. For example, individuality as a slogan is great but when its converted into rebellion for its own sake (witness part of the 60s drama) and expressedly at the cost of family structures that have provided stability for centuries, what you get is a hollowed core. For example, in the UK, married couples fell into a minority among all cohabiting couples fairly recently. 2 decades down, what sort of stability, generational learning, values and character will that (literally speaking) nation of bas t@rds pick up? Will they fight for the freedoms they inherited the way their great grandfathers did? maybe they will but I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.

Freedom of thought and expression, once sacred and critical to western progress is now silenced under the rubric of political correctness and lawsuits which hide the peculiar problems intolerance (of the radical islamist variety, for instance) provokes in superficially liberal and individualistic cultures. And none now dares stick their neck out to criticize the very real threat islamism presents free societies everywhere. The examples of Orianan Fallaci, Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali stand out like a sore thumb against a cowardly norm.

My point is that Acharya san makes an excellent point that we have to have our moorings known and steadied (typically in the rich tapestry of ancient Indian thought, philosophy, traditions and culture) to get our bearings readied and to navigate the future.

Whilst we certainly should learn from our own mistakes from our past, we can't afford top fall prey to the mistakes the west made either.....

JMTs and all that.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby vsudhir » 25 Feb 2009 02:56

oh, and a relevant x-post to the importance of salvaging and reclaiming the greatness of our own past...

Image

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby vsudhir » 25 Feb 2009 03:25


ramana
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ramana » 25 Feb 2009 04:03

The grandaughter of the founder of BoA was on the local radio totally disillusioned with those at the current head of the company. She said her father and grandfather were probably turning in their graves at the antics of these crooks. She said BOA should never have bought Merril Lunch after finding out about the bonuses. And she doesnt bank at BOA!

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H-1B

Postby Shivani » 25 Feb 2009 06:19

How long can the H-1B visa program last? With job losses accumulating in the US, there will be tremendous pressure to give jobs to Americans first. And nothing wrong with that either.

It should not be long before it is announced that no new H-1B visas will be issued. Correspondingly (but not reciprocally) we should be prepared to impose some restrictions on US business.

WTO has plenty to sort out.

This global crisis is a great opportunity. If our babus do their homework, we should be in a position to negotiate hard and place ourselves in a far better position than when this crisis began. :)

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby vsudhir » 25 Feb 2009 14:00

So it is true.

Amrikhanland shall be socialized in its own image, seems like.

After capitalism with chinese characteristics, we now have 'socialism with American characteristics' at last. How tables turn onlee.

Headlines from Drudge:

Obama Says USA will rebuild and emerge stronger...
Obama vows to increase number of soldiers...
Obama vows to seek cure for cancer 'in our time'...
Obama says bank bailout may cost more than expected...
Obama promises universal EDUCATION THROUGH COLLEGE...
Obama promises universal health care...


Interesting.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2009 14:33

more like the hated socialists of canada.

but it all hinges on the world still buying printed dollah notes and giving it respect much
beyond its true station.

everything is Maaya.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby John Snow » 25 Feb 2009 21:04

Bhai log
What ever happened to all the Finance gurus and experts on economy, shouting every day that the PRC middle class is growing by leaps and bounds and US has unlimited potential for exports to PRC and trade with PRC is vital blah blah.
They just vanished into thin air especially Jack Welsh of GE (Ex CEO) who was their cheer leader about PRC.


I had since 1998 ssid that not dime had been made MNCs by selling locally, every product was ripped off and sold as local brand at third of the price, from Japanese Bikes to US machine tools like Bliss Presses, to DVDs to Cars...

and ofcourse James Fallows of The Atlantic monthly..

:rotfl:

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby pradeepe » 25 Feb 2009 21:40

http://india_resource.tripod.com/colonial.html

While few educated South Asians would deny that British Colonial rule was detrimental to the interests of the common people of the sub-continent - several harbor an illusion that the British weren't all bad. Didn't they, perhaps, educate us - build us modern cities, build us irrigation canals - protect our ancient monuments - etc. etc. And then, there are some who might even say that their record was actually superior to that of independent India's! Perhaps, it is time that the colonial record be retrieved from the archives and re-examined - so that those of us who weren't alive during the freedom movement can learn to distinguish between the myths and the reality.

...

In the first half of the 19th century, there were seven famines leading to a million and a half deaths. In the second half, there were 24 famines (18 between 1876 and 1900) causing over 20 million deaths (as per official records). W. Digby, noted in "Prosperous British India" in 1901 that "stated roughly, famines and scarcities have been four times as numerous, during the last thirty years of the 19th century as they were one hundred years ago, and four times as widespread." In Late Victorian Holocausts, Mike Davis points out that here were 31(thirty one) serious famines in 120 years of British rule compared to 17(seventeen) in the 2000 years before British rule.

===

I think there were no merchants in India before the sahibs came.

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Re: H-1B

Postby ramana » 25 Feb 2009 21:48

Shivani wrote:How long can the H-1B visa program last? With job losses accumulating in the US, there will be tremendous pressure to give jobs to Americans first. And nothing wrong with that either.

It should not be long before it is announced that no new H-1B visas will be issued. Correspondingly (but not reciprocally) we should be prepared to impose some restrictions on US business.

WTO has plenty to sort out.

This global crisis is a great opportunity. If our babus do their homework, we should be in a position to negotiate hard and place ourselves in a far better position than when this crisis began. :)


A better objective should be to incentivise those companies to move their R&D to India to avoid the H1B visa and immigration problem. The companies are on lookout to return to profitability as first step while US Govt is on lookout to restore jobs and employment in US.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby joshvajohn » 25 Feb 2009 21:54

Let me share something on Neoliberal values - and the Market economy to bounce back

Competition should have some rules and so the fittest is not determined by how you make other company fall in any possible ways!

Ends cannot be merely achieved without any ethical standards. So the end is a profit or a grand success should be allowed to be achieved only through some ethical ways rather than at all costs using anymeans such as in Satyam! One has to keep a balance between self-regulation and semi-government regulation.

Somewhere there should be a balance between protectionism and free flow of goods and people. One cannot completely protect at the same time one cannot allow flow completely uncontrolled as the mass losing jobs can revoult against at anytimes in the name of national or local identities. then whole system can collapse.

There should also be some respect for human life which cannot be simply commodified. In this way those who have lost in the race, whether government services should continue to be available to them! Should investment take into account some of the working conditions of the worker, ecological issues and life orientation? yes at least to some extent.

Countries like in India people can be encourage to get involved in buying shares even from grassroots (ofcourse at present some do). Then the artificial raising or pulling of the share prices need to be controlled and also be monitored. If masses get involved reasonably the share prices will raise which should be seen as health. Selling of shares should take longer time so that the prices are not manipulated by a few rich individuals.


Such a balance approach would bring out the melting global economy out of this situation. I should say some of these are from my limited knowledge. If you do not share or agree with this let me know.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2009 00:24

K Ragahav posted this link and content in the IT thread.


Even though its humorous there is a takeaway:

It appears that the periodic bankruptcies in London stopped after getting India!

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2009 00:52

I read the "Recipe for disaster" from Wired magazine and the David Li paper. I think the article's thrust is incorrect. It was the misapplication of the formula and even then it was the primary trigger of the sub-prime mortgages that went south.

And they went south because people couldnt afford to make the payments as the Feds were adjusting interests rates and oil price rise to keep Cheney's buddies happy. All these contributed to bring down the sub-prime housing market which set of the secondary of the Banking and the tertiary economic collpase.

So the article blames the wrong guy.

He should be credited for managing to quantify risk and creating wealth which unfortunately was vaporware.

And the hot shot MBAs who managed hedge funds and didnt have clue were also to blame.


I knew a JD/MBA from Stanford(UG from Yale) who got into a hedge fund as a starting job and made a awful lot of money.

He probably now works for non-profit organization.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Raghav K » 26 Feb 2009 00:55

ramana wrote:K Ragahav posted this link and content in the IT thread.


Even though its humorous there is a takeaway:

It appears that the periodic bankruptcies in London stopped after getting India!


thank you ramana garu.. here in the same website, he lists the different crashes in history..
# 1278 A.D Coin clipping
# 1557 State bankruptcy (France & Spain)
# 1558 Re-coinage of 1558
# 1557 Spain bankrupt
# 1607 Spain bankrupt
# 1614 Bankruptcy (Augsburg)
# 02/1622 (February 1622) Debasement of coin
# 02/1637 (February 1637) Market debasement (first recorded joint-stock debasement)
# 1696 New-coinage in England (carried out by John Locke and Issac Newton; speculation: East India Company, treasure, new companies, lotteries) (silver-re-coinage in England til 1698)
# 1720 Object of speculation: Selected companies: South Sea Company, Compagnie d’Occident, Sword Blade Bank, Bank Generale, Bank Royale (Isaac Newton is said to have lost 20,000 English pounds in public funds in the South Sea Bubble; Newton is Master of the London Mint until 1727)
# 04/1720 (April 1720) England speculative peak
# 05/1720 (May 1720) France Crisis (crash, panic) Failure of John Law’s Mississippi Company leads to French national bankruptcy
# 09/1720 (September 1720) England Crisis (crash, panic) South Sea Bubble
# 1740 Gradually the British government began to restrict the rights of the colonies to issue paper money. A dispute arose involving a “Land Bank or Manufactury Scheme” in Boston, and the following year the British parliament ruled that the bank was illegal in that it transgressed the provisions of the Bubble Act of 1720 passed after the collapse of the South Sea Bubble
# 09/1763 (September 1763) Amsterdam Crisis (crash, panic)
# 01/1773 (January 1773) Market Crash Amsterdam (note: Britain?) East India Company, Housing, Turnpikes, Canals
# 03/1792 (March 1792) Market Crash (U.S.)
# 02/1793 (February 1793) Market Crash (England) Reign of Terror, France, Canal Mania
# 02/1797-06/1979 (February-June 1797) Market Crash (England) Collapse of assignats, French landing, Fishguard, securities, canals
# 08/1799-11/1799 (August-November 1799) Market Crash (Hamburg)
# 1810 Market Crash (England)
# 1811 Austria bankrupt
# 01/1811 (January 1811) Market Crash (England)
# 1816 Market Crash (England)
# 11/1818 (November 1818) Beginning of Market Crash (U.S.)
# 06/1819 (June 1819) End of Market Crash (U.S.)
# 1819 Depression
# 12/1825 (December 1825) (note: “early”) Market Crash (England) Latin American Bonds, Mines, Cotton, Bonds sold in installments, country banks
# 12/1827 (December 1827) Market Crash (France, Paris Banks) Canals, cotton, building sites
# 1828 Depression
# 12/1836 (December 1836) Market Crash; England
# 06/1837 (June 1837) Market Crash (France)
# 09/1837 (September 1837) Market Panic/Crash (U.S.)
# 1837 Depression
# 10/1847 (October 1847) Market Crash (England) Railways, Railroad shares, wheat, installment sale of railway securities, 1846 potatoe blight, wheat failure
# 03/1848 (March 1848) Market (Continent) Railways, wheat, building (Cologne?)
# 30/08/1857 (August 30 1857) Market Crash (U.S.) Railroads, public lands; Objects of speculation: Railroad shares (France & United States)
# 10/1857 (October 1857) Market Crash (England) Railroads, wheat, bank mergers, clearinghouse
# 11/1857 (November 1857) Market Crash (Continent) Lender of last resort: Silberzug (Hamburg)
# 01/1864 (January 1864) Market Crash (France) End of Civil War
# 05/1866 (April 1866) Market Crash (England, Italy) Suspension of Bank, Italy abandoned fixed parity
# 24/09/1869 (September 24 1869) Black Friday
# 05/1873 (April 1873) Market Crash (Germany, Austria)
# 20/09/1873 (September 20 1873) Panic of 1873; Market Crash (U.S.) Fraud exposed in 1872 campaign, railroads, homesteading, Chicago (Peshtigo) building
# 1873 Depression
# 01/1882 (January 1882) Market Crash (France)
# 11/1890 (November 1890) Market Crash (England) Lender of last resort: Baring Liabilities, Bank of France, Russian gold loans to Britain, Argentine clearing of southern lands, Brazil, coffee, Chile, nitrates, South Africa, gold, Argentine securities, private companies going public, Goshen conversion
# 20-21/03/1893 (Spring) (March 20-21 1893) Market Crash (Australia)
# 05/05/1893 (April 05 1893) Market Crash (U.S.) Panic of 1893; Repeal of Sherman Silver Act
# 27/06/1893 (June 27 1893) New York Stock Market Crash
# 1893 Depression
# 09/11/1903 (November 09 1893) End of crash of 1901-1903
# 08/1907 (August 1907) Market Crash (France, Italy)
# 15/11/1907 (November 15 1907) End of crash (U.S.)
# 19/12/1917 (December 19 1917) End of current crash (U.S.?)
# 20-21/03/1921 (Spring) (March 20-21 1921) Market Crash (Britain & U.S.)
# 24/08/1921 (August 24 1921) End of 5th worst market crash in 20th century
# 1921 Depression
# 1927 “Black Friday” in Germany; economic system collapses
# 1927 Brazil’s economy collapses owing to over-production of coffee
# 29/10/1929 (October 29 1929) Stock Market Crash
# 1929 Depression
# 17/04/1930 (April 17 1930) Start of worst market crash of 20th century; Starting DJIA: 294.07; Ending DJIA: 41.22; Total loss: 86.0%; Number of days: 813
# 05/1931 (May 1931) Market Crash (Austria)
# 06/1931 (June 1931) Market Crash (Germany)
# 09/1931 (September 1931) Market Crash (Britain)
# 12/1931 (December 1931) Market Crash (Japan)
# 10/03/1937 (March 10 1937) Start of 2nd worst market crash of 20th century; Starting DJIA: 194.40; Ending DJIA: 98.95; Total loss: 49.1%; Total days: 386
# 1937 Recession
# 31/03/1938 (March 31 1938) End of crash
# 12/09/1939 (September 12 1939) Beginning of 8th worst stock market crash in 20th century; Starting DJIA: 155.92; Ending DJIA: 92.92; Total loss: 40.4%; Total days: 959
# 28/04/1942 (April 28 1942) End of 8th worst market crash in 20th century
# 1958 Market Panic/Crash (France) Speculation in currencies
# 1962 Market Panic/Crash (Canada)
# 1963 Market Panic/Crash (Italy)
# 1964 Market Panic/Crash (Britain)
# 1968 Market Panic/Crash (France)
# 1972 Recession
# 11/01/1973 (January 01 1973) Beginning of 7th worst market crash in the 20th century; Starting DJIA: 1,051.70; Ending DJIA: 577.60; Total loss: 45.1%; Related to: Collapse of Bretton Woods, OPEC 1973 price rise, stocks, REITs, office buildings, tankers, Boeing 747s, Eurodollar market flooding in 1970-1971
# 12/1974 (December 1974) On the last trading day of 1974, Gold reaches a high of $195
# 31/12/1974 (December 31 1974) The U.S. government ends its ban on individual ownership of gold.
# 01/1975 (January 1975) U.S. government legalizes gold ownership for American citizens
# 30/08/1976 (August 30 1976) Gold bottom at $102
# 1979 Market Crisis/Panic; dollar, farmland
# 1980 Market Crisis/Panic; related to: oil
# 21/01/1980 (January 21 1980) Gold reaches intra-day high price of $870 in New York
# 1982 Market Crisis/Crash/Panic; related to: third world debt
# 1982 Deep Recession
# 21/06/1982 (June 21 1982) Gold bottom at $296
# 19/10/1987 (October 19 1987) Market Crash; market falls more than 500 points; related to stocks
# 01/1990 (January 1990) Market Panic/Crisis; (Japan)
# 1994-1995 Market Crash (Mexico) related to: deregulation, capital inflow and outflow, domestic boom, bank lending, domestic new banks 1991, nationalized banks privatized 1991
# 1997-1998 Market Panic/Crisis (Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Korea, Russia, Brazil; related to: deregulation, capital inflow and outflow, borrowing abroad, bank lending, construction boom, crony capitalism
# 02/2000 (February 2000) Start of worst market crash of 21st century; related to: Kenneth Lay was greedy?
# 10/03/2000 (March 10 2000) Nasdaq closes at 5048.62 after hitting an intra-day high of 5,132.52
# reinhardt
# 17/10/2007 October 17 WellCare Raided
# 15/03/2008 Start of 2nd worst market crash of 21st century

http://www.enterprisecorruption.com/?page_id=7

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2009 01:43

KRagahv, Can you or someone put them on a timeline format? Templates exist for XL and Visio format.

thanks,
ramana

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby vsudhir » 26 Feb 2009 01:51

My deep admiration for UKstan just went up another notch. Those turds deserve every baki they have x10. :evil:

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2009 02:38

Each of those crashes in modern times led to an erasure of a stalwart WS firm- EF Hutton, Dean Reynolds, and now Merrill Lynch, Lehman, Bear Stearns.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Arya Sumantra » 26 Feb 2009 11:20


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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Singha » 26 Feb 2009 13:56

NYT - another two in the bag. I wonder when they will really big "master of the universe" hedge fund star....drive the final nail into the zombie!

2 Money Managers Held in New Wall St. Fraud Case

By ZACHERY KOUWE
Published: February 25, 2009

For two decades, Paul Greenwood and Stephen Walsh looked like Wall Street wizards.

Their supposed investment prowess lured hundreds of millions of dollars from public pension funds and universities and earned the two lavish trappings of success: stately homes, a stake in the New York Islanders and, for Mr. Greenwood, a horse farm that once belonged to Paul Newman.

But on Wednesday morning, federal agents arrested the two money managers on accusations filed by the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York in what has become all too familiar on Wall Street: Their investment fund was in fact a $667 million fraud — a small-scale version of the $50 billion fraud that Bernard L. Madoff is suspected of orchestrating.

But unlike Mr. Madoff, who is accused of masterminding a global Ponzi scheme, Mr. Greenwood and Mr. Walsh simply stole their investors’ money, the authorities said. Their two firms, the WG Trading Company and Westridge Capital, misappropriated funds from a host of deep-pocketed investors, including state and city pension funds :roll: , Carnegie Mellon University and the University of Pittsburgh.

Theirs is the latest in a series of alleged Wall Street frauds that have come to light as the bear market has deepened, exposing wrongdoing that was hidden in good times, when so many were making money. Indeed, federal agents arrested two other money managers on Wednesday in separate fraud cases.

Mr. Greenwood and Mr. Walsh never developed the sort of wide following that Mr. Madoff had enjoyed. But their arrest is nonetheless a startling turn of events for the pair, who first rose to prominence on Wall Street in the 1980s. They had devised a computerized trading program called Shark, which enabled traders to spot investment opportunities in the stock, bond and futures markets.

Wang Laboratories bought Shark in 1986, giving the men enough money to buy a stake in the Islanders, which they later sold. In 1996, they began soliciting money from investors for a new investment fund.

It is unclear when their apparent scheme began. According to the F.B.I., things began to fall apart in December when, alarmed by the market plunge and Mr. Madoff’s exposure, investors asked for their money back.

It was too late. According to the F.B.I., Mr. Greenwood, 61, and Mr. Walsh, 64, over the years had siphoned off most of the money and used it to finance high lifestyles and cover the costs of recent divorces. :rotfl:

Mr. Greenwood’s extravagances included an $80,000 collection of Steiff teddy bears and Old Salem Farm, a 54-acre riding school and horse farm in the Westchester County town of North Salem that he had bought from Mr. Newman and Joanne Woodward. He has since sold Old Salem.

Those involved include the Iowa Public Employees’ Retirement System, which invested $339 million with the pair; the University of Pittsburgh, which had invested $65 million; and Carnegie Mellon, which had invested $49 million. It was the universities that first alerted the Securities and Exchange Commission that something was amiss.

WG Trading also received nearly $90 million from the Sacramento Employees’ Retirement System. The Pennsylvania Employees’ Retirement System was readying a $1 billion investment in WG Trading when it learned this month that the National Futures Association, which oversees futures brokers, was auditing the firm.

The audit revealed that Mr. Greenwood and Mr. Walsh had taken out loans from the funds totaling $554 million and had invested $147 million in entities controlled by them.

Bail was set at $7 million each, and they were ordered to post $1 million in cash or property that was not from the apparent fraud.

Also arrested by the F.B.I on Wednesday was Mark Bloom, 57, who worked for WG Trading until 2001, when he started his own investment vehicle, the North Hills Fund.


Prosecutors accused Mr. Bloom of taking personal loans from North Hills to buy a $5.2 million Manhattan apartment and of hiding huge trading losses.

Separately, authorities arrested James Nicholson, founder of Westgate Capital Management, at his home in Saddle River, N.J. He is charged with a securities fraud that may have cost investors as much as $100 million since 2004.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Neela » 26 Feb 2009 14:35

ss_roy wrote:What changed under british rule that made famines more likely? Were there ever enough british in India (%) to force Indians to do anything?




ss_roy, there were several pointers given in earlier posts which could be used as a baseline for your research. However, you seem to have some calcified thoughts and with a false assumption as a arguing point, you expect others to prove you wrong! Frankly these assumptions are quite foolish and annoying!

were there enough British in India to force anything.


That shows you clearly have absolutely no clue as to how things were in British India.
I am pretty sure you are super imposing a map of Present day India in your brain and imagining that the British were ruling all over it.


What changed under british rule that made famines more likely


> 5xland tax
> 30% of produce
> Switch to cash crops to meet tax demands!


Like I said earlier, nobody is going to strive hard to prove you wrong! The onus is on you!

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Nandu » 26 Feb 2009 20:08

Obama's budget proposal calls for a deficit of $1.75 trillion. That is almost 12% of US GDP.

Yet, the US has a AAA rating, while the S&P is calling for cut of India's sovereign debt rating to junk because India's fiscal deficit is about to go up to 6% of GDP.

Anybody see the logic in all this?

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby derkonig » 26 Feb 2009 20:48

The worst part about sovreign ratings is that the country rating is usually the upper limit on the rating that cos. from that country can get.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby vsudhir » 26 Feb 2009 20:55

There might just be a silver lining somewhere in the coming storm.

Indian sovereign rating getting cut is ok. Espcially coming from rating agencies that have only recently covered themselves in renewed glory for their stellar role in nursing the current meltdown.

Am hoping it will keep the hot money flows at bay, hopefully. Those we could do without. The longer term investors, with a tad more faith in the India story are welcome anyways. Our firms seeking money abroad would be an issue now but given the way some of our recent acquisitions got burnt, not sure too many right now are waiting to jump on the M&A wagon. I'd rather desi firms focus on tightening grip on the domestic mkt before the formerly deep-pocketed MNCs get in with their glitzy marktg.

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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown

Postby Singha » 26 Feb 2009 21:08

they want to be the magnet for investment to rebuilt their shattered markets and jobs. so the other competitors have to be put down in various ways. for china its already in a mess, india can be hit with ratings downgrades, media, slumdawgs, paki cats paw, changes in tax laws, anti outsourcing witch hunts, FDA raids; Russia is already a mess due to low commodity prices, brazil can be beaten up over its treatment of the amazon horned frogs and deforestation.

this time the model might stress on retaining & creating blue collar jobs
in yamrica


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