India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

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A_Gupta
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by A_Gupta »

Al Biruni (c. 1000 AD) wrote
Now in the following times {after Muhammad bin Kasim} no Muslim conqueror passed beyond the frontier of Kabul and the river Sindh until the days of the Turks, when they seized the power in Ghazni under the Samani dynasty, and the supreme power fell to the lot of Nasir-addaula Sabuktagin. This prince chose holy war as his calling, and therefore called himself Al-Ghazi (i.e., warring on the road of Allah). In the interests of his successors he constructed, in order to weaken the Indian frontier, those roads on which afterwards his son Yamin-addaula Mahmud marched into India during a period of thirty years and more.
Time to return the favor :)
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080716/j ... 556171.jsp

I quote the above not to raise the bogey of a thousand year war, etc., though there will be a curious symmetry if the construction of this highway culminates in an Indian deployment that meets certain objectives. To me the key piece is in the interest of his successors. Even when a current Indian government cannot solve a problem during its term, it should start putting pieces in place in the interests of its successors.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by kasthuri »

Links to deaf and dumb fora is prohibited. Please remove the link.
Forum Mod:

I had this question when posting a link to a TSP forum - as I thought somebody here may find interesting info from there in view of the current topic. I don't know if it is appropriate. Please remove the post if you think it is not a good idea.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by John Snow »

If Uncle or Auntie

1) Writes a 30 Billion Dollar check yearly for the next 4 years.

2) Give complete Logistics support (Supply chain)

3) Drones and UAVs

4) NO UN intervention or conditions, No ICJ business (complete indeminity)


Then I say we go in. Period.

Under Obama regime they have no money for war :rotfl:

( Watch how Israel is using the situation to its best advantage?)
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by pushkar.bhat »

John Snow wrote:If Uncle or Auntie

1) Writes a 30 Billion Dollar check yearly for the next 4 years.

2) Give complete Logistics support (Supply chain)

3) Drones and UAVs

4) NO UN intervention or conditions, No ICJ business (complete indeminity)


Then I say we go in. Period.

Under Obama regime they have no money for war :rotfl:

( Watch how Israel is using the situation to its best advantage?)
:rotfl: :rotfl: with your wish list one would rather cross the line over the western frontier.. Why via Afghanistan? And yes it will cost Unkil less then the 120 Billion USD that you have quoted.. :wink:
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by John Snow »

Ever shopped for a sari in a Sindhi shop ( especially in Matunga or babulbahi desi market?)

When the sari wallahs knows your budget is only 500 bucks , he will start showing from 5000 bucks downwards. :mrgreen:

To embarrass you and force you to make a buy.

That was the strategy to say stationing 120,000 in a land locked country is more expensive than walk across the wagah and do what is required.

But IA and RAW will tell you why it can not be done, what wil be the fall out etc etc to cross our western borders rather than do something and learn even if we fail.

Boss the Lt Generals and their babus are very well ensconed in their comfort zone to think out of the bun. :mrgreen:
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by JE Menon »

John, conditions 2-4 are assured.

As for 1, we will not take money. We are not mercenaries. Let us leave that to Pakistan, a country which takes money to cut itself... :twisted:
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Muppalla »

More I think, India putting a its forces in Afghanistan is imminent. A force equal to one of its Corps is a right thing. However it is interesting to see where the base will be. My preference would be around Herat.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by John Snow »

JE Menon wrote:John, conditions 2-4 are assured.

As for 1, we will not take money. We are not mercenaries. Let us leave that to Pakistan, a country which takes money to cut itself... :twisted:

Remember we are peace keeping force and nations building mode here ( Baluchistan, Pakhtoonistan, Sindhistan, etc).

The check is for I armed forces welfare not warfare. ( Just like the UN foots the bill for peace keeping) :D
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Bhaskar »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chid ... 931478.cms

Chidambaram is going to the US, I think you might see India offer troops to Afghanistan then...
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Prabu »

John Snow wrote:If Uncle or Auntie

1) Writes a 30 Billion Dollar check yearly for the next 4 years.

2) Give complete Logistics support (Supply chain)

3) Drones and UAVs

4) NO UN intervention or conditions, No ICJ business (complete indeminity)


Then I say we go in. Period.

Under Obama regime they have no money for war :rotfl:

( Watch how Israel is using the situation to its best advantage?)
Perfect JS, very fair demand !
# India should make its position clear to uncle and (A)un(d)ty. India first of all, should have starategic thinking, ( i am sure it has) and strategic planning and short , mid term and long term strategic goals clearly defined, keeping the enemies in mind pakis, chinese, etc (and even unlces ulteriior motives)
# Use uncle, Aunty, Iran, Russia, Afganistan as long as our Indian interests suits.
# Try to be more assertive within Asia ! Start behaving like a super power. Attack Paki's and show it can create wounds to paki's.
# Even if necesssary attack trg camps in Bagladesh (with or without consent of new Behanji) The new BD govt atleast talking tough on terror in its soil.
# Involve in srilanka (whether u are willing or not)or atleast ask them to fall in line. NOT to encourage Chinese footage in Lanka, by port construction and dis allow 3D Radar instalation by chines, which can pose a serious threat to Indian interests and especially south nuclear/ startegic instalations etc.
# Talk tough with Nepal. They have become secular raj, from Hindu Raj and more supportive to Chinese rather than supporting India.
# If India wants to be treated like a global power then GOI, our babus strategic thinkers, planers, doers all should belive and act that we are a regional super power first, then a real global power. Tell uncle the Lakhsman Rekha, RED lines. Nothing less than handing over the terrorists and criminals as per pur list and attack on the trg camps and prove complete destruction of terror infrastructure is acceptable post 26/11. Do Propaganda as Indias 9/11.
# Increase defence budget, 3 services, NIA, IM, RAW, coast guard, NSG, ALL paramilitary , cnetral and state police forces, to do all possible modernisation in a war footing basis.
# Get additional(nuclear) war ships(apart from Russians), so called 126 fighter jets, on war footing basis.
# Get basic modern tools for fighting.
# Get a system of accountability in Indian defense reaserch institution like DRDO, DRL etc etc ( I dont mean any dispect to these institutions ) but No business in the world works without any targets, mid course corrections and resultant success in completing a project !
# Get a system of some accountabilty/ punishment , if vital defence proposals are un neccesarily delayed and questioned and sent back because of burocracy. ( Remmeber Geaorge Fernandas, he sent a defence secretory to Siachin on 1 week compulsory deputation, to clear snow scooters for our soldres)
# Get our strategic plans and start implemneting it ! Getting a strategic foot hold in Afganistan is very good. Start creating trouble for paki's in their land, so that he dont have time to concentrate in giving trouble to us.
(I even hear from my paki coleagues that recent blasts in pakistan was funded by our Indian embassy in Afganistan, They them selves say India is now started returning the favour to pakis ! I still have my doubts, if it is true then it is very good !)

# Its high time to modernise our security forces ! Get foreign foot hold, but again with clear strategic goals !
Last edited by Prabu on 04 Jan 2009 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Sagar »

No Kipling. Know Maharajah Ranjit Singh.
Can someone provide a historical background to the Sikhs successful control of Afghanistan.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Lalmohan »

why the ongoing hoo hah about evidence, no one except for pakis are asking for it, and who cares what they blabber on about anyway?
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by munna »

Sagar wrote:No Kipling. Know Maharajah Ranjit Singh.
Can someone provide a historical background to the Sikhs successful control of Afghanistan.
Cannot say with real authority but as far as I know Ranjit Singh had a mobile expeditionary force that always used to be on move in the frontier areas and indulged in pre emptive strikes across any potential rebellious tribe. The idea was to not let them regroup and consolidate while at the same time hitting them all over the place to keep them subdued. They(Afghans) feared Lahore court's army because the army was a step ahead in terms of killing and blasting the tribes. Mind you even in the Mauryan times according to historical accounts a permanent force was stationed for regular punitive strikes against the tribes.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Rahul M »

munna, any reference for the mauryan comment ?
thanks.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Lalmohan »

Rahul M wrote:munna, any reference for the mauryan comment ?
thanks.
gurcharan sandhu's books on warfare in ancient and medieval india are good sources. the integrated battle group concept was developed to fight the Huns, and actually ended up being more 'mobile' than Hun armies and caught them unprepared and so defeated them

was watching a doc on napoleon recently, his corps d'armee concept was very similar (highly mobile combined infantry, cavalry and artillery units under an able general) - and one of the reasons he was able to advance rapidly from the english channel to germany to firstly force the austrian surrender at Ulm (where the austrians mistakenly thought they had numerical superiority) and then very shortly afterwards to defeat the hastening russian allies at austerlitz - with almost precision timing for the decisive french force to enter the field to catch the russians off guard and win a crushing victory

altogether not so different from the Mongol Tuman

and many other examples I am sure...
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by munna »

Rahul if one were to read the Mauryan history especially the Ashokan period then we get to know that the region of modern NWFP revolted at least twice in his lifetime and once he went to the region personally to quell the revolt. Mauryan empire held together as long as they were successful in holding N Areas. They had garrisons in the region and were a thriving empire before they gave up military strength as a tool of imperial administration. I will look for the book and give you more details as soon as I can since I read this interesting detail sometime back when I was an undergrad. I hope you will bear me with me till then.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by kasthuri »

Wonder why US has not considered Chabahar -- Zaranj -- Delaram -- Kabul route through Indian contractors instead of CAR ? Does anybody know whether Chabahar is operational and if not when it is likely to be ?
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Lalmohan »

kasthuri wrote:Wonder why US has not considered Chabahar -- Zaranj -- Delaram -- Kabul route through Indian contractors instead of CAR ? Does anybody know whether Chabahar is operational and if not when it is likely to be ?
the US cannot rely on Iran for its primary supply route into Afghanistan
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by kasthuri »

India, US to ramp up defence ties under Obama administration
NEW DELHI: The extensive military-to-military links forged during the Bush regime will continue with the same vigour in the Obama administration, with a slew of joint combat exercises, high-level exchanges, pacts and, of course, defence deals slated with the US for 2009.

"US president-elect Barack Obama, who has identified Afghanistan as a key priority area, is particularly keen that the American and Indian militaries work closely together in combating terrorism in South Asia,'' said a senior official on Friday.

With Obama promising a surge of troops in Afghanistan, Washington is also keen to ascertain whether India would contribute some soldiers to the International Security Assistance Force currently operating in the war-ravaged country.

Some experts, in fact, hold that sending a contingent of Indian troops to Afghanistan would serve in "exerting pressure'' on Pakistan, which has always been wary of being "strategically encircled'' by India, in wake of the Mumbai terror attacks.

With Robert Gates to continue as the secretary of defence in the Obama administration, Indian officials say the Indo-US strategic partnership will maintain its upward trajectory.

The ball has already been set rolling, with the 9th Indo-US Military Cooperation Group meeting scheduled to be held on December 17-18 in New Delhi to review the progress of bilateral military ties and chart out the joint exercises and training roadmap for the future.

The US delegation, which will be led by Major-General Thomas Conant from the US Pacific Command HQ, will present its "security perspective'' on Afghanistan during the meeting.

India, in turn, will give presentations on its counter-insurgency operations and terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir as well as Indian Navy's anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden off Somalia.

The next round of joint wargames -- India and US have already held a staggering 50 combat exercises over the last seven years -- will kick off in January, with US soldiers reaching the Belgaum commando school for "Exercise Shatrujeet''.

This will be followed by an advanced transport and helicopter fleet
exercise between IAF and USAF in Agra and Chandigarh, which will also include operations by special forces after paradropping from transport aircraft like the Indian IL-76s and AN-32s and the American C-130J "Super Hercules''.

Interestingly, USAF will also be deploying its multi-mission Chinook helicopters during the exercise. The US is strongly pitching to sell at least 12 heavy-lift Chinook helicopters, worth around $600 million, to IAF. It has already bagged the $962 million contract to supply six C-130J aircraft for use by the Indian special forces.

This comes even as India's biggest-ever defence deal with US -- to buy eight Boeing P-8i long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft for Rs 8,500 crore -- is on the verge of being inked after commercial negotiations.

Then, of course, after signing defence pacts like GSOMIA (security measures for protection of classified military information), MIEA (master information exchange agreement) and RDT&E (research development testing and evaluation projects), others are on the anvil.

These include the End-Use Verification Agreement (EUVA) and Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA), which basically govern sensitive technology control requirements.

Even the contentious Logistics Support Agreement (LSA) is back on the radar screen. On the lines of Access and Cross-Servicing Agreements the US has inked with over 60 countries, LSA envisages Indian and American militaries providing logistic support, refuelling and berthing facilities for each other's warships and aircraft on a barter or equal-value exchange basis.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by kasthuri »

Guys, there is a whole issue in Pragati dedicated to sending Indian troops to Afghanistan.

Here is the link:

Should India Send Troops to Afghanistan?
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by kasthuri »

Guys, there is a whole issue in Pragati dedicated to sending Indian troops to Afghanistan.
Sorry, my bad! :cry: I could see only two articles out of which I posted one before. :-?
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Div »

kasthuri wrote:Guys, there is a whole issue in Pragati dedicated to sending Indian troops to Afghanistan.

Here is the link:

Should India Send Troops to Afghanistan?
Pragati/INI seem like an interesting publication. Though I haven't explored much of the site, I like the idea.

Its what BRM/SRR should evolve to...hopefully there are some links between the two sites.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Rahul Shukla »

Make No Mistake - G. Parthasarathy (TOI)
Chinese hostility to Indian concerns was voiced even more strongly by 'scholars' from two government institutions the China Institute of Strategic Studies (CISS) affiliated to the foreign office and the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR) affiliated to the state council. CISS scholars claimed that India was blaming Pakistan to "enhance its control over the disputed Kashmir".

A CISS scholar even stated: "China can support Pakistan in the event of a war." The scholar asserted that in such circumstances China may have the option of resorting to a "strategic military action in southern Tibet (Arunachal Pradesh) to thoroughly liberate the people there".
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Singha »

so these 'warlike tribes of the frontier' have been unruly since
Mauryan times...320 BC. thats 2300 years and they still havent civilized so one can safely assume its something genetic at work here, a mutant strain of humanity that cannot be guided selectively into civilized norms. Alaksindr had a horrible time after the morale disaster at hydaspes retreating
with his tail between legs down the indus as he had to fight
for every scrap of land or shelter. he capped his brilliant
campaign by sailing on ship to iran while most his army perished in the makran desert. the bhestern worlds bestest herrow onree. :mrgreen:

over the course of the ages I think the 'good elements' from the frontier came to india and became the settlers in certain parts of north india.

the 'bad + cunning' types filtered into the indus valley under the cover of turkic and uzbeki invasions and later became the pakjabi musalman.

the 'wild' types are still out there in the hills- fighting as usual.

peace destroys them as surely as war does others.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Lalmohan »

alexander had a very tough time subjugating the 'afghans' but he did fight his way through to the jhelum - slaughtering many a mountain stronghold en route. post the draw against Porus, and the refusal of the army to go any further into India, he went south - almost getting killed in Multan whilst leading a charge over the walls and getting speared in the midriff for his recklessness. the makran episode was ostensibly to punish his reluctant soldiers, but more likely a fear of having to go back the way he came

even Timur-i-lenk had a tough time pacifying the 'wild tribes' on his way from uzbekistan, and he was not exactly known for his human rights championing

post Gandhara period, something went very very wrong in the gene pool... perhaps it was the Macedonian injection?
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Philip »

Please read this paper in depth.It is most illuimnating about US/ISI poartnership in terrorism in Afghanistan,etc.Here is an excerpt from the site.Bob Gates,former CIA chief, is now US Defence Secretary! After reading this paper,anyoine suggesting that India shuold send troops to Afghanistan will realise that the entire exercise is a global gameplan by the US to actuallky control oil rich Central Asia through Pak and the Taliban and deny Russia its legitimate space in the region apart from neutralising and "neutering" India.

Cover-up or Complicity of the Bush Administration?
The Role of Pakistan's Military Intelligence (ISI) in the September 11 Attacks
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO111A.html

by Michel Chossudovsky
Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO111A.html

(excerpt)

According to this 1998 interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, the CIA's intervention in Afghanistan preceded the 1979 Soviet invasion. This decision of the Carter Administration in 1979 to intervene and destabilise Afghanistan is the root cause of Afghanistan's destruction as a nation.

M.C.

The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser


Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998
Posted at globalresearch.ca 15 October 2001

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

Translated from the French by Bill Blum


PS:"The ruse of drawing the Russinas into the Afghan trap".Replace India for Russia and you get the picture.India will suddenly find itself doing all the killing and maiming in Afghanistan while the US,Britain and Co. will withdraw their troops after cutting a deal with Pak and the Taliban! Eventually,Pakistan and the US,partners in crime for decades,will togeather rule over Afghanistan by proxy and pursue US interests into Central Asia.India would've got a bloody nose and unable to find the will to fight Pak at all.The US great game strategy would've worked to perfection.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Rahul M »

munna and lalmullah, thanks !

I'm looking to get my hands on some good books on ancient India's military practices, which are a little hard to come by.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by NRao »

IIRC Hamid Gul had one point wanted Indo-Pak to gang up on the US. :)

Today no one trusts the other.

Philipji, I think much water has passed under the bridge and even Brzezinski (on TV) has had some change of heart. Furthermore, any country "drawn" into anything is a sucker. Having said that Indian leaders (no matter which party) are suckers either to external forces or internal forces - both are equally bad for the country. If India does, it is damned, if it does not, it is damned.

India needs good leaders that make decisions for the betterment of India.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Singha »

me too. thats a truly interesting topic.

the makran episode was ostensibly to punish his reluctant soldiers, but more likely a fear of having to go back the way he came

sure, there was no way in hell his morally down army was going to trudge all the way back
up the indus, over the khyber and through the hornets nest again. even in the indus they'd
have to fight every town again.

with not enough ships available for his army, the only way out was makran. no doubt the treacherous baluchi guides pulled a number and led many groups astray and left them in the
desert to slowly die before returning to loot the remains later.

I doubt the greek genes injected into the region had any good or bad impact. the mutant
strain was stronger and after a period of 'culture and buddhism' , regressed back into
its stable state - which is chaos.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Prabu »

[quote="Philip"]

Cover-up or Complicity of the Bush Administration?
The Role of Pakistan's Military Intelligence (ISI) in the September 11 Attacks
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO111A.html

by Michel Chossudovsky
Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO111A.html
quote]

The truth is Very harsh, always ! :eek:
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Lalmohan »

Singha wrote: I doubt the greek genes injected into the region had any good or bad impact. the mutant
strain was stronger and after a period of 'culture and buddhism' , regressed back into
its stable state - which is chaos.
the greeks did hang around for quite some time, atleast the satraps until they were ousted

the pathans seem to relish genetic connections to sikandar, whether it be of themselves or for their horses - apparently almost all pedigree afghan mounts are 'reputed' to be fore-sired by the great Becuphelus :)

that's probably where the pakis get their 'raped by turko-arab ghazi lineage' pride from :rotfl:
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by JwalaMukhi »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash
Some scholars have speculated that the Kalash might be from ancient Middle Eastern populations[20], direct descendants of Greek settlers, or of members of Alexander the Great's army.[21] Though often overstated, instances of blond hair or light eyes are not unusual.

In a 2005 study of ASPM gene variants, Mekel-Bobrov et al. found that the Kalash people of Pakistan have among the highest rate of the newly-evolved ASPM haplogroup D, at 60% occurrence of the approximately 6,000-year-old allele.[22] While it is not yet known exactly what selective advantage is provided by this gene variant, the haplogroup D allele is thought to be positively selected in populations and to confer some substantial advantage that has caused its frequency to rapidly increase, perhaps imbuing cognitive or behavioral abilities related to non-tonal languages and alphabetical scripts.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by NRao »

Do not want to get into details, but Greek soldiers that arrived late into the sub continent + those that Alexi left behind did mingle and the result was a a group of Bhramins that went into business. They were somewhat "out casted" yet allowed to remain.................. things ended on good terms.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Singha »

Lalmohan, the greco-roman tradition of buggery of young boys and taking them as lovers probably
made its appearance in the afghan-pak region through this greek invasion.
I would be curious to know whether this 'tradition' is also seen in turkmenistan, iran and iraq which also lay on alaksindr's marching route.

the great man himself is said to have had a boy lover of sorts.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by JwalaMukhi »

Alexander's guru Aristotle had firmly believed that "woman was incomplete man" and tutored him. Par for the course as the joke goes.. "if woman was incomplete man" then "man should be complete and 400% woman" onlee.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by putnanja »

NRao wrote:Do not want to get into details, but Greek soldiers that arrived late into the sub continent + those that Alexi left behind did mingle and the result was a a group of Bhramins that went into business. They were somewhat "out casted" yet allowed to remain.................. things ended on good terms.
Any more info/links on this issue? Just curious :)
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by munna »

Adding to the information menitoned earlier please read more about Nurestan/Kafiristan in Afghanistan. This region is in the NE Afghanistan and was the last stand of dharma in the blighted country. Apparently non muslims were able to survive in this enclave till as late as 1896 without being converted. However this region fell to Islam on the eve of 20th century. Apparently these guys even now are bitterly opposed to both Pashtuns and Pakis, I say a fertile ground for regeneration of Indic culture in Afghanistan. Click here for more clicky
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Airavat »

At the time of Alexander's invasion, there were no "Afghans" in the Indus-Khyber region and no "Baluch" in the Makran coast.

The original home, the cradle, of the Pashtuns was south of Kandahar where in the 10th century the Turk rulers of Ghazni fought them and eventually converted to Islam. They colonised the Kabul, Swat, and Indus valleys as late as the 16th century and moved into Hazara still later in the 17th.

According to Mughal documents that region was inhabited by an Indian people called the Dalzaqs. The Mughals slaughtered these Dalzaqs and sold so many of them into slavery, that their very name was extinguished from public memory; their denuded lands were then colonised by Pashtun tribes like the Yusufzai, Afridi, and Khattak in the 16th century. (As a modern parallel the Pashtuns have been settled in Gilgit, western Jammu, and Baluchistan following the Pakistan army's conquest and occupation of these regions.)

Within the Gangetic plains the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughals settled Afghans to keep the local Hindu resistance in check. It was another thing that these very Afghans (Ruhelas) later rebelled against their former masters!

As for the Baluch, by their traditional history, they entered present Baluchistan in the 7th century after conversion to Islam. Their original home is supposed to be either Kurdistan, because they share ethno-linguistic connections with the Kurds, or southern Iran.

So the resistance to the Greco-Macedonians, and later to the Bactrians, Sakas, and Kushans, came from Indians.
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Lalmohan »

Airavat - thank you, one learns something new everyday
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Re: India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Post by Singha »

but arent the Hazara people living in their highland enclave west of Kabul supposed to be different ethnically from the pashtuns ? I distinctly recall a natgeo issue on these people and
the text and photos indicated a more slavic+mongol heritage from up north..than a mere branch of the pathan clans.

needless to say hazaras being shia now (and probably buddhist earlier) have been always a
target for the sunni extremists roaming around down below.

they did safeguard the priceless cave statues of Bamiyan et al over the ages and didnt
make a mosque out of the stones unlike their lowland co-religionists.

so my spider feel is they move to a different beat and the alien mutant gene is not in their
bloodline.
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