Strategic leadership for the future of India

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 06 Nov 2009 00:31

Regarding OM being replaced with Allah and God what Ramdev says is pure bull$hit. On the map of Yoga and Samkhya body is not just a hunk of matter. I think Ramdev trying to succeed where BApu failed. We are all back to 1921. I think he was under the pressure from his two most politically prominent devotees Lalu and Mulayam to pander to Mullas.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 00:37

Folks: The first post of this thread says
The idea for this thread comes from persistent laments in many threads about the lack of desired leadership, or desired qualities in a leadership seen to be necessary for India. However I see no thread to specifically concentrate on this issue, which is surprising if the lack of appropriate leadership is felt to be such a persistent itch.


Just saying.....

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 06 Nov 2009 00:42

Ramdev is bullshit.

Yoga is not his father's prescription!

OM cannot be replaced!

My opinion after having tried with these fool suggestions!

If someone succeeds, good for him.

I tried.

I failed.

OM seems my sure cure!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby negi » 06 Nov 2009 00:46

^ Wait how many Yogasanas require uccharan of 'Om' ? And how many of these so called purists know how to pronounce 'Om' correctly ?

There are so many asanas which can be done just like one of those aerobic routines without having to make the 'Om' sound.

Ramdev might not be the one who started the practice but he is the one responsible for making it popular and more importantly convince people about its benefits and even break the ostensible religious cliches associated with the practice.
Last edited by negi on 06 Nov 2009 00:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 06 Nov 2009 00:47

Pranavji, and other friends,
please note that I have clearly stated that Baba Ramdev's intentions/sincereity, or the degree of anti-Islamism inherent in the source of Vande Mataram, or even the merits of Vandemataram, popularity of Yoga among non-Hindus etc - are not the issue. The primary issue is that Baba Ramdev was present at a gathering called by the Ulema - who have openly declared their target of establishing and inetnsifying political Islam.

I have clearly stated that there would have been no issue if Baba Ramdev's yoga was bridging the common Muslim directly - without the mediation of the Ulema. It is the platform being shared that is of concern. These Ulema are shrewd politicians who deliberately raised the fatwa in the same platform - and they had it planned all along. They would use the presence of PC and Ramdev to their advantage.

We should not fail to understand Islamic strategy of deception. When they are weak militarily - they will always try to confuse, and lull suspicion in the non-Muslim. Their target is to split the non-Muslim and neutralize or soften up hostility in factions within the non-Muslim. This is perhaps not understood commonly outside orthodox Ulemaic circles - because the earlier texts of Islam are usually not available or accessible to non-Muslims. This strategy of deception is explicitly stated many times in the texts that deal with the life and times of Muhammad.

I am all for yoga being shown to Muslims directly - without the Ulema standing between Ramdev and the Muslim.

This is what I am trying to emphasize repeatedly - no Ulema to determine and say how the Indian Muslim should behave. Yoga should not be subject to approval or disapproval by the Ulema. We don't want them coming between brothers and sisters of India. We don't want Ulema and their Islamism - yes we want them to convert to being Indians first and last. If needed they should reconstruct a new Indic Islam that has no "hudood", that has no endorsement of slavery, no jihad to establish dominance by force - that clearly and openly repudiates such 7th century Arabian tribal barbarism as anti-Indian Islam.

Otherwise, they have no place in the future of India.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 06 Nov 2009 00:51

Negi.

Even before Ramdev we knew of the power of OM and practised it; notwithstanding our religious affiliations!.

He, good old Ramu, is no flash in the pan!

We, Bengalis, are still deeply ingrained about our roots notwithstanding what is our religion!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 00:55

Brihaspati ji: What is the connection of PC, Ramdev, Ulema etc to 'Strategic Leadership' ? I think we are veering outside the scope of this thread. If you think we are not, please enlighten. Thanks.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 06 Nov 2009 00:57

Ganges, the life and Mother of Spiritual India meanders!

One wonders why?

OM is the power of the Indian spirit and goodness and hence is a weapon for strategic leadership!

Neither Bji or anyone can deny OM's greatness to that strategy!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby negi » 06 Nov 2009 00:59

lack of desired leadership, or desired qualities in a leadership seen to be necessary for India

PC and his ilk epitomize the the above hence imho his mention is pretty much relevant.

Ramdev as of now is a nobody as far as politics is concerned but he has made his intentions of entering politics very clear , as of now man's conduct is exemplary and unlike the politicos he has no criminal background neither does he speak with a forked tongue all in all a welcome entrant to the club from a common man's perspective.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 06 Nov 2009 01:02

negi wrote:lack of desired leadership, or desired qualities in a leadership seen to be necessary for India

PC and his ilk epitomize the the above hence imho his mention is pretty much relevant.

Ramdev as of now is a nobody as far as politics is concerned but he has made his intentions of entering politics very clear , as of now man's conduct is exemplary and unlike the politicos he has no criminal background neither does he speak with a forked tongue all in all a welcome entrant to the club from a common man's perspective.


He was a someone who I respected till he entered the political realm.

Like it or not he has entered.

Sad.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 01:08

So negi, if a person values Hinduism will that be considered an undesired quality? We all know PC as an able Commerce Minister along with equally able Finance Minister Manmohan Singh under Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao. PC is also known for playing "politics" at TN level.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby negi » 06 Nov 2009 01:18

SwamyG wrote:So negi, if a person values Hinduism will that be considered an undesired quality?

No but one need not wear Hinduism on sleeve to value it.

Hinduism has never been the same since the day it came into being (in fact when did this term originate ?).

We all know PC as an able Commerce Minister along with equally able Finance Minister Manmohan Singh under Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao. PC is also known for playing "politics" at TN level.

I am not qualified to judge his credentials as a Finance minister and neither do I believe that responsibility of a country's financial well being is solely upto the Finance minister , for likewise we have had Lalloo and Mulayam man equally important posts and we all know IR had done well under Lallo , so what gives ?

PC is a home minister in the current GOI cabinet and there is no excuse for his reckless and unwanted act of bringing up the Babri masjid demolition , and this is not the first time he has done this.

To me his conduct is no different from an Indian who says 26/11 was a response to Babri masjid demolition or Godhara , for likes of PC have been consistently raking up this issue on major platforms under Media's presence .He is the home minister of a country and not some nobody like me or any common Indian who is exchanging views with his friends over a cup of tea.

If he deserves credit for good work he has done then he must face the flak for irresponsible and stupid comments he makes .

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 01:26

You got me wrong. I was not giving credit to him wholly. He came down in my eyes long ago.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 06 Nov 2009 01:36

SwamyG ji,
I have only considered the aspect of leadership that should have been kept in mind by people who occupy certain "leadership niches" in the public imagination. I have criticized PC and Ramdev, only for not thinking about the consequences that their sharing of the Ulemaic platform means. I want people to be aware of the agenda of re-establishing or reviving "political Islam" by the Ulema, on Indian soil. I dont want the Ulema to provide leadership to the "Muslim". I want them out of the way between interactions between brothers and sisters. And I do not want people who are in a position to influence the thinking of millions, to confuse non-Muslims as to the real intentions of the Ulema. Right from the beginning of my posts on the forum, I have insisted on eliminating the Ulema and the Islamist theologian. I want all Indians to place themselves and find their roots within the context of India and its civilizational heritage which however has no place for ghazwas, hudood, and the barbarism of much that passes for the sharia. The Ulema preserves the Arabic orthodoxy. Either they "go" or they construct a new Indic Islam that declares those unacceptable items as anti "Indic Islam". Non-muslim leadership should not help brush up, soften, or make accetable the Ulemaic image. Thats all.

Really the other finer details of philosophy and significance of "shabda-Brahma" is not for this thread. My humble and sincere request to all to leave those other branches of thought out of here.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby BijuShet » 06 Nov 2009 01:45

RayC, you write that Baba Ramdevji lost your respect because he has chosen to enter into the realm of politics. Arif Mohammad Khan, (a former BJP MP from Uttar Pradesh hence a politician) who translated Vande Mataram into Urdu is a patriot in your opinion and thus I assume also has your respect. I see contradictions in your stand.

Baba Ramdevji has single handedly built his following among the common masses of India from ground up and he desires to bring about a positive change in Indian society. Can you explain why you have labelled him as cow manure? Also If Baba Ramdevji is acting on the words of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi "Be the change you want to see in the world." Why does that make him a charlatan? Do you know something about Baba Ramdevji that we don't or does your personal prejudice cloud your judgement on Baba Ramdevji?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby negi » 06 Nov 2009 01:48

Swamy_G to elaborate more on your first question in the present context.

From someone who teaches Yoga it is not important if the followers appreciate the religion or origin of the 'art/practice' itself for a start ,it is the need to reach out to as many people and convince everyone about the benefits of the exercise itself which assumes greater significance.

So if projecting Yoga as a flexible art form which can be absorbed by people of all faiths without hurting their religious feelings helps the cause then for a start this is a desirable development.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 02:08

Brihaspati ji:
Thanks for putting a stop to the digression that was going on.

>>I dont want the Ulema to provide leadership to the "Muslim".
Surely, Muslims have every right to look towards an entity that they consider would stand up for their values, right?

>>I want all Indians to place themselves and find their roots within the context of India and its civilizational heritage which however has no place for ghazwas, hudood, and the barbarism of much that passes for the sharia.
For quite sometime I have moved to the point of view that considers that IMs should weaken the strings to Arabia.

Wouldn't you think Ramadev or whoever else can lend value to the above two points to create an Indic Islam?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 06 Nov 2009 02:51

SwamyG ji,
values change when they are not protected. What passes for Islamic values will change once they are no longer recognized and protected under Rashtryia guarantees. This is the reason I want the Ulemas out of the way and their defacto right to dictate what the Indian Muslim must think. Let us stand face to face with our ideologies and arguments. I can guarantee that the Ulemaic position will have no formal defence. Its a pity and intensely frustrating that people like me will never get the opportunity to come into open public debate with the ideological defenders and glorifiers of Islam. The bland, uninformed and censored questioning and arguments that the Ulema are at all allowed to face - serves more to strengthen debaters like Zakir Naik.

I know the type of replies and responses I get for my arguments and questions from orthodox Islamists - those responses are more about getting my "head" off and serves me even more to highlight what they really stand for, so that ultimately many of them simply become scared to utter anything. Fearing that they will themselves help to denigrate their own faith if they open their mouths any more.

We have grown afraid of winning. The winning starts from winning of minds through arguments - through starting independent lines of query and reasoning. Almost all Muslims can be won over to an Indic version - but the channels of those debates and "rubbing" have to be made free of the Ulema and their counterparts in rashtryi apower who help the Ulema stay on in power.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby ramana » 06 Nov 2009 03:05

Also two things to understand.

Socio-religious rules governed by Shariat. Developed form Koran and hadiths
politico-religious rules governed by Zawabit. Developed from Caliphate, Sultanate.

Since the end of Mughal rule, Zawabit was in disuse and when the British codified Shariat as Anglo-Muhammedan law it gained primacy. We are in the realm of Zawabit(poltico-religious arena) but Shariat is being applied and ulema provide guidance on that which is not the area of expertise. If the ulema are confined to true area of expertise which is the socio-religious arena, the people can be governed by Zawabit and politicans like Arfi Mohd will have fighting chance.

Read up Ziauddin Barani to understand whats Zawabit.
One line summary is "The king must rule!" ie he makes rules for governance which is the politico-religious sphere.

In modern times its the state that makes the rules after due process.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 03:10

It is one thing for us to want or not want Ulema. It is another thing what IMs have, no? If our leaders continue to shed crocodile tears for IMs, it benefits organizations like Ulema. Sadly, when somebody does, they are branded causing media frenzy. Your argument is PC and Ramdev contributed to credibility of Ulema. What if Ramdev manages to "Indianize" ?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 06 Nov 2009 03:40

Yes it will give the approval stamp to the Ulema - so that what they say can even less be contradicted or found fault with. Ramdev ji has not contradicted or obtained open acknowledgement that the real domains of Ulema - their claims of unchallengeable authority of Islamic core texts - are false or modifiable/replaceable. Withoust such core compromises - it simply stamps the Ulemaic claims as "okay".

ramana ji,
zawabit is and was challenged right from the beginning by the Ulema also. The compromise was obtained by the "ruler" agreeing to accept the Ulemaic interpretation and supremacy of the "shariat" when the two came into conflict. But this was indeed a highly contested issue. Problem, is that the first argument against reviving a parallel of "zawabit" is given straightaway by the Ulema - that it can only be considered when there is an Islamic ruler at the head of an Islamic state. The Ulema got the opportunity to establish their authority when the British dusted off their copy of the Hidaya and thus reconstructed a more orthodox Sunni vision. Almost nowhere in current Islamic theology is the "zawabit" accepted without distrust. They recognize clearly that it leads to loss of "Islamic ideal".

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 03:57

Brihaspati ji: Irrespective of what the Ulema thinks or not, if a Muslim considers 'Vande Matram' as un-Islamic and does not want to sing it; it is purely his choice, right? Does it become an issue only if a 'leadership' of IM take up the same stance?

corrected: punctuation.
Last edited by SwamyG on 06 Nov 2009 04:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby ramana » 06 Nov 2009 03:58

What is you view?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Prem » 06 Nov 2009 04:04

Question, is India islamic ?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby ashkrishna » 06 Nov 2009 04:07

india is un-islamic...
the main question what does that mean to a muslim?
Does it mean the same as a non-hindu england means to a hindu, or does it mean that it is a work in progress?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 04:09

ramana wrote:What is you view?

I do not mind a person singing or not singing 'Vande Mataram'; and I do not like an entity - be it of any kind - to force some one to sing or not sing it.

What is your view?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RamaY » 06 Nov 2009 04:16

SwamyG wrote:
ramana wrote:What is you view?

I do not mind a person singing or not singing 'Vande Mataram'; and I do not like an entity - be it of any kind - to force some one to sing or not sing it.

What is your view?


Do you extend that view to the other symbols of nationhood? say the national flag?

Not directed at you, but this "will not force someone to do or not" business cannot be extended to certain aspects of society/nation. That is the root of the problem.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Prem » 06 Nov 2009 04:34

Can anyone explaian that Why is VM has to be seen in term of Islamic or Unilamic, why not from the point of view of being Indian, Indic or Motherland =Holyland? Does not Soverignty rest with Constitution and it being the highest authority in national affair? Why always be fly in the Khichri?
May be we should make "De Shiva Var Mohe" another national song as ask them about their opinion.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 06 Nov 2009 04:36

Once again, singing or not singing is not an issue. The issue is that we should be able to talk directly to a Muslim who is also not commited to maintaining (or a member of) a theological hierarchy. The Ulema should not be recognized as an authority able to control the flow of this interaction.

I seek delegitimization of this Ulema - who has consistently taken a Sunni Wahabi orthodox revivalism line. Delegitimization of their role as a controller of Muslim voice and opinion or interaction between the Muslim and the non-Muslim. We will talk and debate without the help of any theologian - if need be for a hundred years, to convince each other of the desirability and efficay of our respective positions. I am confident that this is where we will win - and that victory is not a personal victory for anyone, but for all of human civilization.

Their position is that of revelation, ours that of realization. Realization and the neverending quest for that is the destiny of humanity. The ideological struggle to prove that "revelation" does not exist, it is a self-delusion - but "quest for realization" is not falsifiable becuase it is a method that never traps humanity in small local optima - it is constantly seeking global supremum - is going to be the ultimate human struggle for the coming centuries.

India with its huge population and potential to come out of the trap of local optimum of the Abrahamic, can change the course of whole of human history. Why should we let a handful of Ulema to stop us?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 06 Nov 2009 04:37

May I request that Vande Mataram be discussed in the "distorted history thread" and not here? We may be able to do better justice to the topic there.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 06 Nov 2009 05:07

Once again, singing or not singing is not an issue.
<snip><snip><snip><snip>
I seek delegitimization of this Ulema - who has consistently taken a Sunni Wahabi orthodox revivalism line. Delegitimization of their role as a controller of Muslim voice and opinion or interaction between the Muslim and the non-Muslim. We will talk and debate without the help of any theologian - if need be for a hundred years, to convince each other of the desirability and efficay of our respective positions. I am confident that this is where we will win - and that victory is not a personal victory for anyone, but for all of human civilization.

Brihaspati ji: Thanks for explaining it so beautifully. I understand the nuance.

Do you extend that view to the other symbols of nationhood? say the national flag?

Yes, but on a case to case basis. I do not mind if somebody disregards a symbol.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby negi » 06 Nov 2009 05:13

Yes Bji I have already put in a request in the relevant dhaga about 'Anand Math' and the original Vandematarm.

As for delegitimisation of political think tank of Islamists well truer words were never said before but what do we do when Home Minister himself acts as a representative of Hindus and makes apologetic statements about an act which was never committed by Hindus in the first place.More than the legitimization of the wahabi institutes the message to the common IM is important i.e. 'Babri Masjid was a Hindu act of crime' .

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby D Roy » 06 Nov 2009 07:45

if you go by strict tantrik teaching, no mantra should be uttered out loud. The agni under the tongue will burn away whatever you say. mantra and ritual chanting should be in the mind. And it can be of course synergised with each breath. The Naam being repeated mentally can be anything. anything at all.' it has to be whatever/ whoever you want to attain . So chanting Jesus ( but mentally ) is fine, if you want your essence to (eventually) merge with that of Jesus. Also Tantra allows worship with form as well as without form.



Sufis use prayer beads while meditating on Allah. They also like to raise "themselves" to what they call the "chautha Aasman" ( fourth heaven). This "chautha aasman" corresponds to the Anahata ( heart chakra) in Kundalini Yoga.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Pranav » 06 Nov 2009 09:13

brihaspati wrote:I have clearly stated that there would have been no issue if Baba Ramdev's yoga was bridging the common Muslim directly - without the mediation of the Ulema. It is the platform being shared that is of concern. These Ulema are shrewd politicians who deliberately raised the fatwa in the same platform - and they had it planned all along. They would use the presence of PC and Ramdev to their advantage.


A lot of Muslims attend Ramdev Baba's camps, or watch him on TV, without the mediation of the Ulema. We are no longer in the era in which the Ulema have a monopoly on the minds of the faithful.

This endorsement by the Ulema will make him more Halal for Muslim masses. Another aspect is that it stengthens Ramdev Baba in the eyes of those politicians who practice minoritarian politics.

The Ulema already have their status, calling Ramdev Baba to speak does not really make that much of a difference to their position. IMHO, Ramdev Baba is the net gainer.

As regards challenging fundamental theological doctrines, it is a multi-step process, as was mentioned. First people need to be made aware of their ancestry, the positive aspects of their ancestral culture. People need an identity and a frame of reference to cling to. Need to broaden that sense of identity. Then, people need to become evolved enough to be amenable to rational discussions.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Pranav » 06 Nov 2009 09:21

RayC wrote:He was a someone who I respected till he entered the political realm.

Like it or not he has entered.

Sad.


If politics is dirty it is because good people have abdicated their responsibilities. What Ramdev baba is doing in politics is something that needs to be done. IMHO, the problem is too few people taking active interest. A recent inititative by Ramdev Baba, Anna Hazare and others is to pressure the Govt into appointing Kiran Bedi as the chief information commissioner. A commendable step.

I don't fully agree with his political program - as explained before the transaction tax idea is retrogressive. But it is good that people are waking up and noticing what is happening around them.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Pranav » 06 Nov 2009 09:25

Jarita wrote:
I disgree. All these systems will appropriate whatever they can from Bharatiya traditions while throwing everything else out of the window. They now have Muslim yoga in England and Christian Yoga in America.
If you want yoga, take it lock stock and barrel. Understand the meaning of the word and the significance of the asanas from a spiritual perspective. If one cannot respect the tradition and thought process underlying yoga then don't get other benefits from it.
Sick of the Swamis half baked approach to tradition. This watering down has never, ever, ever helped us. You can see that with the Yogananda ashrams in the US.
Duniya bahut kharaab hai


Let them practice "Muslim Yoga" without Om chants. They will soon realize that they are missing something, and will want to get the real thing.

Those who want to go deeper into Yoga cannot avoid the spiritual and philosophical foundations.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul Mehta » 06 Nov 2009 10:02

And now we have elegant and articulate discussion on "OM". As if that would solve any problem of commons. But then, commons problems are least of concern. So why bother !!

----

For ages, many of us complained (including myself) that Sadhu-Mahatma talk about hell and heaven, and take people away from the worldly problems. And now when a Sadhu namely Ramdevji is talking about wordly problems and also starting a political outfit, some of us (excluding myself) complain of Sadhu-Mahatma interfering into politics. Damn if you dont and damn more if you do !! I officially thank, welcome and congratulate for OPENLY joining politics and starting a big outfit. We need more and more Sadhu to do the same.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby D Roy » 06 Nov 2009 10:28

Yoga, mantra and yantra are all part of tantra.

they all were actually taken to the next level as part of tantric agama traditions in India. Though they are of course used in vedanta as well ( minus the yantra ). Om resonates all the sounds of the universe and if anybody wants to attain singularity this is a path.

in the west yoga is seen by many as a 'system of jerks' that are good for physical and mental well being. However as we know hatha yoga is not just for physical culture. the same asana done differently with different holding positions may be used to raise kundalini. Unfortunately a whole bunch of folks in the west are stuck asking questions such as-

1. what kind of energy is kundalini shakti?
2. can it cause heating?
3. what the hell is a chakra?

somehow faith and the suspension of disbelief are difficult in societies so mired in the concept of 'power for dominance'.

There is a reason why our ancients refused to share knowledge with just about anybody. it is easy to diss their choosiness with post modern concepts of equality and such and such. but the truth is

Yatha khar chandana bharvahi bharasya veta na tu chandanasya.
"The ass carrying its load of sandalwood knows only the weight and not the value of the sandalwood."

This is something our export gurus should keep in mind while "gathering disciples" in the west. While culture has to be transmitted some quality control is essential.

Umrao Das
BRFite
Posts: 332
Joined: 11 Jul 2008 20:26

Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Umrao Das » 06 Nov 2009 10:51

Strategic future of India is very bright, get your shades out (like Men in Black wear them or like Blues brothers wear them, even better wear them like Karunanidhi who sees only black money), why and how so?

Aree baba there so many babas in Namdev, Ramdev, Dr. commander Sell one of Atlanta GA Usa or rvrn better
Pundit Maharaj Oeer Syed Shahib (occassionally doubles as deaf dumb forum admin Syed) all these peple can solve world problems personal problems, monetary problems, family problems, father not listening to child , child not listening to girl friend, grik friend finding new boy friend in Abhi shake Bachhan, baba gives Vachhan , Pran jaye per Vachan na jaye. Send USD150 Money order, or International MOney Order, Visa accepted by Master Baba 7% extra, Please no Pakistani Rupees only.

testimonials at

http://www.gsharma.com/peer-syed-sahib/

Sample test e Money yal

For all those wishing to consult the fraud Pundit read this.
I went to see him when I was mentally inecure and felt that nobody could help me. I was in such a state that nothing mattered to me except my problem. When I went to see him he asked for a £50 consultation fee which I gave him. He asked me my details and then told me certain things about my situation which made me believe he was not a con. He told me I did not need to pay until problem solved which would take 3 days.
Two day later he phones me and tells me to deposit £1500 into his account as quickly as possible. He says he has found out something and needs money for material otherwise it will be too late. I explained to him that I dont have that sort of money but he convinced me. I sold whatever I could in my house and deposited the money in his account. After that he would not answer my calls.



It’s about an Atlanta based swami named Selvam Sidhar, also called Dr. Commander Selvam (though his real name is apparently Annamalai?),


Testi Ammal quote


lurker auntie on August 4, 2008 11:48 AM · Direct link
I believe I have seen his ads in India Abroad!

***

DK on August 4, 2008 12:02 PM · Direct link
He also runs ads in India Currents. Mom called him once to see when I would get married, and he offered to pray for my stars and send me a yellow saphhire ensuring my nuptials wthin one year -- only for $2750. And, he closed with "After all, what price can top a mother's happiness?"


Dont worry be happy CD shipped free on sendhing SHipping and Handling charges of $50 Money order only please

Umrao Das
BRFite
Posts: 332
Joined: 11 Jul 2008 20:26

Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Umrao Das » 06 Nov 2009 10:56

There are different kind of Yoga
There are different kind of Tantra
There are different kind of Yentra ( Talisma, Lucky charm, Taavez)

There are different kind of Mantra

Finally
There are different kind of Karma
There are different kind of Prarabdha ( afflictions due to prior Karma nearest in English)

so do distinguish the strategic order of the above to prosper (along with others or at the expense of others).

***
In combination of Yoga and tantra, Tibetian Budhist monks (on PBS in collobration with MIT which was aired about 5 yrs ago in Michigan) could bring down heart rate to extreme slow rates and the metabolism to near zero so that they could endure Himalayan cold naked months together at a time, the heart rate slowing down and the body temperature comeing close to the ambient temp while their brain waves ( or awakening was as low as our strategic leadership and GOI responses) were near all time low in activity.
just FYI
contact PBS archives they may have the video of it.


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