Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Dr. Richard Benkin
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Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby Dr. Richard Benkin » 04 Apr 2009 17:49

I just returned from a month in India during which time an incredible number of significant events were occurring. My primary mission in going was to document and raise awareness of the ethnic cleansing of Bangladeshi Hindus. I found plenty, including evidence of ongoing attacks on them both in Bangladesh and in West Bengal, India. The border between the two is so porous that terrorists and contraband move freely with and without the help of India's Border Security Force or West Bengal police. But I also witnessed the tragic beginning of the end for Pakistan's Hindus. Once one in five Pakistanis, they have been reduced to one percent of the population.

But as the Taliban take over ever larger chunks of that country, that remnant of a people is streaming across the border into Indian Punjab. The stream became a torrent with the Taliban's seizure of the Swat Valley earlier this year. Hindu refugees report attacks and threats by the Taliban, as well as officials telling them to leave the country "or else." The February agreement between the Taliban and the Zardari government ceded the area to the former and allowed Sharia law to be imposed on Swat's 1.2 million inhabitants.

President Obama has used this agreement as a model in his stated quest for "moderate Taliban." But not only does the agreement countersign ethnic cleansing, it also failed even before Obama's anticipated speech on US policy in the region. Just hours before the President spoke, one of the Taliban parties to the agreement, Tehrik e Taliban, abrogated it with a terror attack on a mosque in Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province, and has engaged in other terrorist attacks subsequently.

One Hindi language channel quoted a Taliban spokesman confirming that his group was pulling out of the agreement not to attack elsewhere in Pakistan because, he said, it would be contrary to Allah's wishes to limit Sharia to the Swat Valley. Yet, no major media in India, the US, or elsewhere made this connection.

Even more shameful, no media or government has protested the ethnic cleansing of Pakistan's Hindus, who are being finished off by the Taliban. All governments involved in the region are just allowing it to happen,too. What kind of a world do we live in when India will not defend Hindus attacked for being Hindus; when the US ignores the atrocity; when not a single human rights group or the UN utters a word of protest?

What is happening to Pakistan's Hindus is a crime, but a crime that is largely accomplished. There remain 13,000,000 Hindus in Bangladesh subject to the same attacks, the same racist laws, and the same intention to eradicate them. Worse, the battle is spilling across the open border into India, and it is changing the demographic balance in the region. It is also allowing terrorists into the country whose intention is to undermine the very nation of Hindustan.

My mission is to prevent that, to prevent the murders and other atrocities, even if I am the only voice of protest to cry out about this crime against humanity.
Last edited by ramana on 25 Apr 2009 02:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title Changed- ramana

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby SSridhar » 04 Apr 2009 17:53

Please discuss in the appropriate thread. No need for a new thread.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby enqyoob » 22 Apr 2009 20:47

Unlocked, please discuss the repression / torture and genocide against Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan and Bangladesh here. But could some kind Admin who knows how to do, merge this with the other thread and give it a halal name? I don't see why the other thread is about "Pakistan as a haven for INDIAN Muslims.. etc". Probably that is what needs to be changed, to a generic "Extinction of Minorities in Pakistan".

You have to be fair and give credit to the Pakis. They practise Equal Opportunity Genocide. Against everyone that does not hit back at them and make them run away screaming in terror. I mean, REALLY tough ones like Waziristan housewives wielding Mark 25 Frying Pans and F-37 Rolling Pins.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby samuel » 22 Apr 2009 20:57

Hello,
Q1. How many Hindus in Pakistan being displaced, where are they headed, are they at our borders?
Q2. What section(s) of WB (within India) is the cleansing happening in?
Q3. What are useful ways to contact BD&P Hindus?

thanks
S
PS: Many thanks N3.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Johann » 22 Apr 2009 22:41

Hi Richard, thanks for your activism against Islamist intolerance in Bangladesh.

Samuel,

The majority of Pakistani Hindus are concentrated in Sindh. I believe (Hindu) Sindhi organisations in India, especially Bombay remain in touch, particularly since the 'soft borders' initiatives since 2003.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby RamaY » 22 Apr 2009 22:49

Dear Richard,

Thank you for standing up for the oppressed in Pakistan. The world powers especially USA, UK and China are supporting Pakistani & Talibani antiques to further their geo-political interests. They have done the same in Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan and the world is paying the heavy price in blood and prosperity.

I hope GOI will stand against this minority oppression in the name of religion. I also hope India pushes the world community to create an independent nation for these Pakistani minorities either in Sindh or Balochistan under its protection.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby aryank » 22 Apr 2009 22:54

RamaY wrote:Dear Richard,

I hope GOI will stand against this minority oppression in the name of religion. I also hope India pushes the world community to create an independent nation for these Pakistani minorities either in Sindh or Balochistan under its protection.


*** Deleted ***
This thread is about Hindu oppression in Pakistan, do not talk about Maudhani in Kerala.
Last edited by aryank on 22 Apr 2009 22:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby samuel » 22 Apr 2009 22:58

Many thanks, Johann.
S

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby IndraD » 22 Apr 2009 23:01

Pls elaborate how are Hindus under attack in WB.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby derkonig » 22 Apr 2009 23:14


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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Airavat » 23 Apr 2009 08:35

Attacks on Hindus in Sindh increase when the PPP is in power

Sindh Home Minister Zulfikar Mirza was of the view that there was a conspiracy to grab the property and business of the Hindu community. These issues were also highlighted during the last days of parliamentary year of the Sindh Assembly by the Pakistan People’s Party-Parliamentarian (PPP-P) minority legislator, Pitanbar Sewani.

Sewani was born in Bagarji, Sukkur, in 1953 and has been associated with the PPP since 1974. Starting from his political career as a member of district council Shikarpur in 1979, he had been elected as a member of the provincial legislature twice. He is among three senior legislators of the minority community. Two others were late P.K Shahani and Rana Chander Singh.....

.....whenever the PPP comes in power, the minority members are targeted as it is the only party, which strives to improve the condition of minorities and empower them, Sewani said. Certain elements want the government in Sindh to fail, and they target Hindus who are loyal to the party, he maintained.

When the PPP came in power in 1988, around 19 Hindus were killed in Karachi and their property was looted. When the PPP assumed power in 2008, Jagdesh, a factory worker was killed over alleged blasphemy. Hindus were targeted on their religious festival (Holi) in Umerkot and the home minister on the Sindh Assembly floor said there was conspiracy against the minority.

Thrown to the wolves

The Thar Parker district had a Hindu majority and the Congress should have claimed it. Indeed it had traditionally been more a part of Marwar than of Sindh. On the eve of Partition, the Sindh government promptly merged Sanghar district with Thar Parker district --- to cancel out its Hindu majority. But even then the case of Thar Parker district was on par with that of Sylhet in Assam, where the Muslim League had demanded --- and got --- part of the district, through a plebiscite.

In 1928, when there was talk of separation of Sindh from Bombay, Jodhpur State had laid claim to the Amarkot (Umarkot) area of Thar Parker district. Jodhpur's case was that Amarkot had traditionally been part of its Marwar area. The Britishers had taken the area from Jodhpur temporarily for defence purposes. However, the Sindh Congress had opposed the move.

Another area India could have got was the native Khairpur state. The Mir was prepared to accede to India. But Pandit Nehru declined the offer --- even as he had returned the accession papers of the Kalat state in Baluchistan.

Had New Delhi played its cards in Khairpur and Thar Parker, the frontier of India would have touched the mighty Indus. Indeed India could have asked for a plebiscite in the whole of Sindh, for the majority of Sindhis had voted against the League in the 1946 general elections. In these elections, the Muslim League got only 46.3 per cent vote in a province with a 71 per cent Muslim population.

450,000 Hindu refugees from Sindh live in Rajasthan

Therefore, for the first time, in Rajasthan's political history, the incumbent Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has given a ticket to a refugee to contest elections to the 200-member state legislative assembly. The candidate, 62-year-old Tarun Rai Kaga, fled his hometown in Pakistan to India during the 1971 Indo-Pakistan war. "We left everything in Pakistan and came here as homeless, landless. We stayed in refugee camps as vagabonds before the Government rehabilitated us."

Hindu Singh Sodha, founder president of Seemant Lok Sangthan (SLS), has been waging a war for the legitimacy of the Pakistani refugees for a long time. These people, he says, are scattered in Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Jodhpur districts in western Rajasthan. Before independence from the British, Hindus in these drought-prone areas often migrated to the fertile and irrigated areas of Tharparkar, Rahimyar Khan and Bahawalpur, now districts in Pakistan.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Rahul M » 24 Apr 2009 20:35

this is a worthwhile initiative, if for nothing else, a record needs to be kept of this heinous act, we owe it to humanity.

the old BR thread on baluch genocide by TSP might be a considered a sister thread to this.

p.s. is the current thread title ok or was n^3 ji asking for another ?
wasn't around, so kindly ping me if anything needs to be done.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Abhi_G » 24 Apr 2009 20:41

For some background on Direct Action Day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Action_Day

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby surinder » 24 Apr 2009 20:49

Why name the thread solely as death throes for the Hindus. There is death threat against the Sikhs as well. The incidents of Orakzai is proof of that. There are Sindhi Sikhs as well. Many of Pakistani Hindus have fluid religious boundaries, many of them are practically practicing Sikhs, for all practical purposes. Pakistani Hindu & Sikhs have stayed very close to each other, each supporting the other. Same with the intense closeness in Afghanistan. I think the thread is misnamed slightly.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Atri » 24 Apr 2009 20:57

Surinder ji,

Please do not get me wrong but when talking with respect to Non-Indic religions, it is better to club Indian religions together under one denomination. If the word "Hindu" is not acceptable, let it be "Bhaaratiya". Sikh panth is one of the many Bhaaratiya Dhaarmic Paths which is fundamentally coherent with others. It is high time that we categorically separate Bhaaratiya ideologies from Abrahamic ones and club according to families and not individual religions.

परस्पर विरोधे च वयम पंच च ते शतं
अन्यैः साकं विरोधे तू वयम पंचाधिकं शतं - Yudhishthira in Mahabharat

While dealing amongst ourselves, we are five and they are 100. However, when it comes to dealing with outsiders we are 105 against outsiders.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Keshav » 24 Apr 2009 21:00

Chiron -
Lets not widen any small gap that might exist between Sikhs and Hindus. If the Sikhs want to be called Sikhs, call them Sikhs. Do not try and rope them into a name they don't want. If you're name is Chiron, I'm not gonna randomly call you Bubba am I?

I think your quote from the Mahabharata applies well to my post as well.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby surinder » 24 Apr 2009 21:06

Chiron

I do not have a problem in Sikhs being lumped with Hindus. I just want to make sure it is understood that the Sikh repression is also in our radar.

And yes, we should 105 against their 100---agree with that 105% ;-)

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby surinder » 24 Apr 2009 21:09

Ajatshatru wrote:Even Guru Nanakji took Vava of Vishnu, Haha of Hari (Krishna), Rara of Rama and Gaga of Gobind to form Waheguru.

Some people even call Harmandir as Hari Mandir.



Ajatsatru, what you say is indeed correct: One school of thought is that the word Waheguru is the acronym for Wasudev, Hari, Gobind, Ram.

Harmandir *IS* Hari Mandir. That *is indeed* the name, not just a clever spelling variance. Har & Mandar, respectively, s just a punjabi way of saying "Hari" and "Mandir".

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Atri » 24 Apr 2009 21:15

Keshav wrote:Chiron -
Lets not widen any small gap that might exist between Sikhs and Hindus. If the Sikhs want to be called Sikhs, call them Sikhs. Do not try and rope them into a name they don't want. If you're name is Chiron, I'm not gonna randomly call you Bubba am I?

I think your quote from the Mahabharata applies well to my post as well.


I am not asking Sikhs to drop the name of their ideology and path. I am just asking that all Indic ideologies should be clubbed under one denomination only while talking with respect to Non-Indic ideology.

Amongst ourselves, One can be a Sikh, a Buddhist, a Jain, a Vaishnava, a Shaiva, a Saamkhyin, a Vedantin (of three flavours), a Charvaka. All of them were categorically identified as "hindus" in medieval times. All of the paths which I described are "religions" in their own right. Shaivism is as different from Vaishnavism as Judaism is from Christianity.

And they were mutually irreconcilable in bitterest manner in medieval times. However, with time and interaction with common foe, they agreed to be referred to under one higher denomination. This denomination in no way negates their individual world-view. A vaishnava is still a vaishnava and Shaiva is still a Shaiva.

If we understand this unity in vast diversity of Indian religions, there won't be any gap amongst ourselves while dealing with foreign civilization. Amongst us, there has always been plethora of different opinions and they are actively encouraged in our civilization and none of the ideology is suppressed. Every ideology had a fair and equal share of propagating the ideals it holds true. Times decides the fate.

However, this works only within the premises of Bhaaratiya civilization. Interaction of civilization as a whole with foreign civilization, necessitates a creation of super-identity only for the purpose of dealing with foreign civilization.

Chiron

I do not have a problem in Sikhs being lumped with Hindus. I just want to make sure it is understood that the Sikh repression is also in our radar.


:) That's why I am myself opposed to usage of word Hindu in religious connotations. Outsiders called us Hindus. We never called ourselves as Hindus. Then why retain this name?

We referred our to land from Himalayas to Indian ocean as Bhaarat and ourselves as Bhaaratiya or Bhaarati with first reference found in Vishnu-Puraan. This term includes everyone who belongs to Bhaaratiya civilization (partly because there was no one else).

British categorically alienated Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, tribals from followers of orthodox Astika ideologies by creating this smaller identities.
Last edited by Atri on 24 Apr 2009 21:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby Rahul M » 24 Apr 2009 21:24

surinder ji, others, do you have a suggestion wrt thread name ?
thanks.

guys, by discussing whether sikhs are hindus is OT in this thread, please re-post in other threads.
else we would be losing focus on the human tragedy that is happening right under our noses.
thanks for complying.

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Re: The Death Throes of Pakistan's Hindus

Postby surinder » 24 Apr 2009 21:42

Rahul M wrote:surinder ji, others, do you have a suggestion wrt thread name ?
thanks.


My aim was just to point out that please include Sikh-related news in this too. If there are Sikh gurudwaras torched or like the Sikhs in Orakzai. Name is not important. I am quite fine with the fact that the word Hindu can ecompass Sikhism, hence I don't see identity markers too important. Putting Sikhs in the title would make it unecessarily long, so I would say leave it as it is (unless you want to advertise it and emphasize the TSP brutality).

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 25 Apr 2009 02:45

Taliban has imposed Jazia on Sikhs in Pakistan.

Sikhs in Pakistan pay Rs.20 mn to Taliban
Islamabad, April 16 (IANS) Pakistan's Sikh community has been forced to pay Rs.20 million as 'jizia' (tax) to the Taliban so as to return to their homes and resume business, a newspaper said Thursday.

The minority Sikh community Wednesday met the Taliban demand in return for 'protection' in Orakzai Agency in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, the Daily Times reported.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20090416/87 ... to-ta.html

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby brihaspati » 25 Apr 2009 03:10

Surinder(ji omitted as per your wish - :) )

Anyone who represses the "Sikh" because he/she is a Sikh, commits an unpardonable crime against all Bharatyias, and against every faith or belief system that claims its origin in Bharat, and has it supreme or holiest sites within the subcontinent. The same goes for these faiths too, if anyone represses them too.

The Taleban or similar outfits should be declared "non-humans" and "harmful animals" to be exterminated as pests, by all Bharatyia faiths immediately. Anyone, in TSP or BD who protects a single life from Sikh, Sanatan Dharmee, Buddhist and other Bharatyia "faiths" should be treated and formally considered an honoured Bharatyia and formally given such recognition. Anyone who sides with the Taleban, does not resist it, does not kill off a Taleban whenever opportunity arises, any population that allows the Taleban to flourish among themselves should be declared collaborators of Talebs, and will not be eligible for "protection" in the future under any possible military action.

The Talebs should be warned of at best, trial for "war crimes" if captured, and at worst left to the kind mercy of "irregulars". We should promise to make them "disappear", for good.


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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby svinayak » 25 Apr 2009 04:34

Dr. Richard Benkin
Can you give us your email.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby JwalaMukhi » 25 Apr 2009 04:47

Minor suggestion for the title of the thread:
"Oppression of non-muslims in Pakistan and Bangla Desh" will carry the message appropriately and justify the import of the topic.
IMVHO Minorities is a code word for DIE newspaper reportings, to obfuscate facts and render it useless.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby svinayak » 25 Apr 2009 05:09

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=40112
RIGHTS-US: "Hindu-Phobia" Thrives in Dark Corners of the Web
By Anuradha Kher

NEW YORK, Nov 19 (IPS) - Last July, a 35-year-old Indian American financial services executive was visiting Lake Tahoe in the San Francisco Bay Area with his fiancée and her cousin. As the group walked along the beach, a couple approached and called the women "Indian sluts and whores".


"Many Americans have no contact with Hindu Americans, because most Hindus have settled in urban areas. For those people the Internet is the primary source of information about different cultures and people. And a lot of people in the United States end up with misconceptions about Hinduism. These misconceptions are then used to attack not only groups but also individuals," said Chowdhury.

The attacks of Sep. 11, 2001 also led to a long-term spike in hate crimes against Hindus and South Asians in general. According to the National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium, there were 507 bias-motivated hate crimes against Asian-Americans in 2001, a 23 percent increase over 2000.

After 2001, a coalition of civil rights, educational and religious groups submitted comments to the Department of Justice recommending that the FBI include in the "Religion" section a line for "anti-Sikh" and "anti-Hindu".

In some cases, Hindus are confused with Muslims. For example, in 2003, Saurabh Bhalerao, a 24-year-old Indian graduate student in Massachusetts who had a part-time job delivering pizza, was robbed, beaten, burned with cigarettes, stuffed in a trunk and stabbed twice before being dumped along a road in an attack that police and community leaders described as a hate crime. The suspects apparently mistook Bhalerao, who survived, for a Muslim, screaming comments like "go back to Iraq" as they assaulted him.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby shiv » 26 Apr 2009 07:05

http://www.samaylive.com/news/christian ... 20443.html

Christians, Hindus, Sikhs forced to flee Swat: Catholic Church

Cast My VoteNew Delhi: The minorities in Pakistan's Swat Valley have been forced to flee as the Taliban have imposed a tax on non-Muslims, Pakistan Catholic Bishops' Conference (PCBC) president Archbishop Lawrence John Saldanha has said, urging the Pakistani president and prime minister to intervene.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby Prem » 26 Apr 2009 08:07

Jiziya is very legitimate tax on kaffirs. It has the sanction of Prophet Muhamamd and Allah . Not extractig jiziya from Hindus, Sikhs and Christians will violate Quranic injuctions hense tentamount to sin. Question is How many Muslims in the Kuffar world are willing to accept the same tax and status which Islam the perfect grants to Dhimmis. Will any one dare to ask this question and will Muslims dare to answer honestly? At least Pakistanis should be applaued for following pure Islam honestly regarding minority.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby SBajwa » 26 Apr 2009 08:36

The world will always remain silent for the meek. Only way to fix this anomoly of jazia tax from all of the Arabian islamic landis to create a law that requires all muslims who are living in India to pay "Dharmic Tax" otherwise they do not have privilege to practice their religion.

and government of India (and other places) could use this money to pay off the Taliban who are asking sikhs and hindus to pay Jazia.

Only tit for tat will work. India must have separate laws for muslims and muslims alone as islamic countries have separate laws for non-muslims.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby samuel » 26 Apr 2009 08:48

No, without unconditional love, there is no hope of accruing political capital that we can later use for destroying our enemies. If we show unconditional love, they will automatically kick EJ/Is out. If we are only conditional, they will remember and use it against us after converting. We should be more careful when proposing tit for tat, or something like that.

S

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby SBajwa » 26 Apr 2009 10:00

Samuel,

We (through our dead ancestors) have been very careful for last 1400+ years. Only thing that will work is

for every tit there is a tit*2 that equals a TAT. and nothing else. Since moderate muslims (if exist) cannot stop this tide only non-muslims will have to step up and stop this menace once for all (it is our existence or theirs).

and Wahabi Saudi version of Islam must die because there is no other way.

Bottom line is that if they ban Holi, Diwali, Christmas, guru nanak birthday, etc..

you ban all Eids, etc.

TIT for TAT will not only work but work better because then moderate muslims who are living in comfort zone and are not raising their voices where they should will feel the pain and do the needy.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and BD Per Quranic Inju

Postby Prem » 26 Apr 2009 10:17

Bajwa Sahib,
We are a secular nation singing Ishwar Allah tero naaam forgetting Ishwar has no hell or hell fire but Allah do . Since we are secular ,
Indians must work for the welfare , upliftment of Muslims since they are marginalized becuase of their religious teachings . Instead of dicusssing and changing the root cause i.e religious doctrine , the resources of kaffirs must be employed to feed and strengthen the very dogma and its followers so in future they can impose jiziya tax onllee and not decapitation Taliban style. Well , another argument is we are not islamic so we must suffer and not pay back in same coin and refrain from pushing them back into same Musharraf they came from.
Last edited by Prem on 26 Apr 2009 10:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby samuel » 26 Apr 2009 10:24

prem is absolutely correct. by loving everyone unconditionally, we maximize unity and gain the strength to smash anything. very hard to break a connected bundle of sticks.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby Prem » 26 Apr 2009 10:31

Samuel also follows secularism. " In Jiziya we Trust, one nation, invisible and guilible "

I wonder if our PM Sahib's sleep is disturbed by this jaziya on his own people or Talibans following pure ,true islam are just heeding his advise about Muslims have the first right on Kaffir resources.

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby samuel » 26 Apr 2009 10:36

they treat us according to their religion, we must according to ours, hai na?
for the minorities in pak and bd, should we ask them to just adjust and follow rules?

(before handles fly, read sarcasm please, sorry, didnt forewarn!)

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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby shiv » 26 Apr 2009 10:41

Bajwa - I think Samuel was being sarcastic. But what is happening in Pakistan is merely a continuation of the idea of Pakistan which basically thumbs its nose at India and says 'Fck you Indians. We will do whatever we like to Hindus and Sikhs. You are the people who want to keep Muslims in your "secular" country - so if you touch Muslims it will be proof that you are all insincere liars and will justify our screwing Hindus and Sikhs even more.

Unless you are willing to study game theory particularly what is described on the page linked below, it is difficult to follow what Pakistan is doing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutiona ... _and_ESSes

Pakistan seeks a tit for tat game. India could have played that game, but secular India is playing not playing that game and has not played that game for 62 years.

By not doing a tit for tat and accepting Muslims and giving them the same, if not more rights than Pakistan India is allowing Pakistan to play the game called "Harm your neighbor" which is advantageous to Muslims in Pakistan and India.

A situation in which all Non Muslims are harmed in Pakistan and Muslims are not harmed in either India or Pakistan is the natural outcome of the "Harm your neighbor" game played by Pakistan. (Check the scoring on the Wiki page) It is a good strategy that is advantageous to Muslims.

Your suggestion is to try and turn the game into a game of tit for tat, in which harm to non Muslims in Pakistan is matched by harm to Muslims in India. The advantage of that game is because we can get the satisfaction of kicking Muslims and telling them what we think of Islam. Unfortunately this is what Pakistan wants and we don't want to give Pakistan what it wants. Pakistan wants to prove that Indians hate Muslims, but India has started playing the game of saying "We don't hate anyone by religion"

The game India has been playing with Muslims is "turning the other cheek" in the hope that after non Muslims get hit time and time again India Muslims will start seeing the advantage of not hitting non Muslims in India. This is the game that is disliked on this forum. What you and others want is tit for tat.

As has been discussed on the "Demise of Pakistan as haven" thread - it seems to me that Pakistan, having failed to defeat India by provolking a tit for tat has possibly shifted to the game called "hate everyopne" on that wiki page.

Once Pakistan shifts to the "Hate everyone" game - it is no longer advanatageous for Indian Muslims to root for Pakistan. They have a chance now to keep on hating India's Hindus or to try and join. My view is that India Muslims must be givena chance to join. Starting tit for tat NOW after playing a "turn the other cheek" game for 62 years is IMO the wrong strategy.

SBajwa
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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby SBajwa » 26 Apr 2009 10:47

Thanks Shivji!! that was an excellent explanation.

I do get very emotinal sometimes.. and go out of senses.. pardon me.

samuel
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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby samuel » 26 Apr 2009 10:50

there is a certain symmetry.
you screw your minorities, we will screw ours--This ends in a stalemate at best.
So, to break it, one option is:

you screw your minorities, we do nothing--This is just stale and gets us screwed.
Another:
you screw your minorities, we find a way to screw you--This is an option now.

Prem
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Re: Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

Postby Prem » 26 Apr 2009 10:52

So the game is Dekhna hai jor kitna bajue Qatil mai hai . How long ? Its not about Pakistan=islam but all Muslims agree on jiziya being divinly sanctioned.


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