Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 26 Apr 2009 11:10

It's about logistics. What kind of conversation will you have with India's Muslims?

A) If you want to follow Islam, better stay down or fit in.
B.) Change your religion.
C) Change your religious text and it should be dharma.

Why will they want to talk to you? And if they don't talk to you what do you propose doing with the O(100M) and rapidly growing?

There is a possibility to prevent it from totally turning malignant. It requires us to fix the EJ/I problem in general, but here, Islamism emanating across our borders first.

Fix pak, eliminate appeasement, show a way forward to the willing. Once that's done, let's talk about fixing islam.

Does this make sense?

Wrong thread, probably.
S

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Apr 2009 11:43

Pakistan's game has been inherently advantageous to Pakistan and Muslims. India's game has actively demanded the appeasement that made India keep its Muslims as "pin-up model Muslims" without looking at them directly in the eye and telling them "Look you buggers - moving ahead in this world means getting a technical education and getting jobs that build India. An Islamic education will do bugger all to your chances of getting any jobs"

And Muslims too did not figure this out till the 1990s when they suddenly realisd that as community Indian Muslims are in doo doo. If I had said what I am going to say now about five or more years ago, nobody would have believed me.

In the 1950s and 60s - Pakistan was doing so well (with US baksheesh) that everything Pakistan said was right. India could not say with any conviction to its Muslims that keeping away from secular education was a bad idea. India had still not built up the infrastructure for that education (where were the IITs for example) and Muslims already had their madrassas and Pakistan was king of Asia.

In the span of 30 years everything turned upside down. India - under constant criticism and on the wrong side of the cold war suddenly started doing alright. And the "alright" did not Include Muslims - who were quite happy to be poster-boy/pin-up Muslims.

Mulilms may well complain now - but those complaints have to be backed up by action in which Muslims actively clean up the crap and resistance to development themselves and join other Indians. If they want non Muslims to do it - we have our own plans of how to clean up Muslim communities. A brief read of this forum should make that abundantly clear. It is in Muslims own interest to take the "unconditional offer" they have to clean up their own affairs.

Even in the last 2 years we have seen complaints from Indian Muslims that Muslims are being blamed for terrorism when it is patently obvious that Muslims have actually been involved. But India Muslims need to understand that if Pakistan is doing this to them they have to speak up and say so and not be wishy washy in their protection of Islam and therefore veiled protection of Pakistan that does these things in the name of Islam.

Indian Muslims have to pull themselves away from Pakistan, If they believe that pulling themselves away from Pakistan is the same as pulling themselves away from islam - they will have to face the natural consequences of that belief.

In the meantime napunsak Indian governments who have neither protested Pakistan's injustice to its minorities nor have they told Muslims in no uncertain terms to shape up need to wake up. Otherwise they idiots who have been doing this to India have to be weeded out in the next 2-3 general elections over then next 15 eyars.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Apr 2009 14:04

shiv wrote:In the meantime napunsak Indian governments who have neither protested Pakistan's injustice to its minorities nor have they told Muslims in no uncertain terms to shape up need to wake up.

This situation has come about mostly because of the INC. In the initial years, the dominance of Nehru, who truly feared the resurgence of the majority community, did everything to put them under a tight leash. This involved not taking up with the Pakistani governments on the suffering of the minorities in both wings of Pakistan and their forced fleeing to India of those who escaped genocide. So sensitive was Nehru's fear of majoritarian dominance that he did not want the President Rajendra Prasad to attend the renovation ceremony of the Somnath temple. Later on, after Nehru's death, the Muslims became an attractive vote bank as INC's charisma with the general public began to take a beating.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 26 Apr 2009 20:12

The letters and communications between our first President and our first Prime Minister are a very interesting read and instructive of the mind set of Nehru.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 26 Apr 2009 21:00

Christians, Hindus, Sikhs forced to flee Swat: Catholic Church
Apr 25th, 2009 | By Sindh Today | Category: Business, UnCat

New Delhi, April 24 (IANS) The minorities in Pakistan’s Swat Valley have been forced to flee as the Taliban have imposed a tax on non-Muslims, Pakistan Catholic Bishops’ Conference (PCBC) president Archbishop Lawrence John Saldanha has said, urging the Pakistani president and prime minister to intervene.

Expressing concern over the government’s move to allow the imposition of Sharia laws in parts of the North West Frontier Province, the archbishop said in his letter to the Pakistani leaders: “We note with sorrow that your government has failed to take stock of the concerns of civil society in Pakistan in your decision.

“Christian, Hindu and Sikh families have been forced to flee because the Taliban imposed on them Jizia, a tax levied on non-Muslims living under Islamic rule,” he said.

The archbishop’s letter was released here by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India (CBCI).

Indian Govt. has selectively abdicated Hindus.. the Church of the Vatican conveniently steps in, while our hindu seers are taking teaching yoga... and delivering uber-philosophical "==" bouncers

..

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 26 Apr 2009 21:06

Pakistan Christian Congress files petition with UNO for Refugee Status for Pakistani Christians. Nazir Bhatti

Mr. Ban Ki Moon,

Secretary General,

United Nation Office,

New York.

Appeal to award Refugee Status to Pakistani Christian on constitutional genocide and persecution by Muslim in Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

His Excelleny,

I, the undersigned , Nazir S Bhatti, Chief of Pakistan Christian Congress PCC, on behalf of 20 million Christian in Islamic Republic of Pakistan wish to draw your kind attention on enforced migration and displacement of thousands of Christians from Swat valley, Peshawar, Mardan, Nowshera and FATA after threats to convert to Islam or die by Islamist elements. These families are staying with their relatives in Punjab and Sindh provinces facing immense miseries and hardships after denial by government of Pakistan to provide any assistance or security. The hundreds of Christians families of victims of blasphemy are living in hiding for safety of life weather accused are acquitted or in jails. Thousands of Christian families keep on shifting residence in different parts of Pakistan on threats by influential Muslims or in fear of implication in fabricated cases by police. The mass migration of poor oppressed Christian is never brought on record by government of Pakistan nor any human right organization have urged for their settlement where they may live peaceful life.

It will be very important to note in 21st century that Christian are treated as untouchable by Muslim majority on basis of religion and cannot dine at any roadside vendor, restaurant and hotel which is worst type of hate on globe towards Christian in Pakistan. If any Christian on journey or away from home is hungry and attempts to eat in any Muslim owned dinner, he is beaten and tortured by Muslims and forced to pay for plates and glass in which he eats or any thing he have touched. The Pakistan Christian Congress PCC presented many memorandums to government from 1985-1998 to legislate against curse of un-touchable to ensure social justice in society but such demands were neglected. The curse of un-touchable have prevented Christians to take part in profitable catering industry because Pakistani Muslim terms Christians as infidel under Islamic decree which prohibit to eat any food prepared by them.

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Apr 2009 20:46

A day in Dhimmidom in Pakistan.

For the Christian dhimmis:

11-Yr-Old Boy Killed In Taliban Attack Against Christians

Wednesday 29th April 2009

Release International can confirm the death of an 11-year-old boy in the Taliban attack against Christians in Karachi last week. Irfan Masih was shot during an attack by Taliban militia against the minority Christian community in Taiser Town, Karachi. He died later in hospital.

Three nights beforehand Taliban militants chalked threats on the church and Christian homes in the town warning Christian residents to convert to Islam. The population of Taiser Town is overwhelmingly Muslim …………………….

Click

And for the Sikh dhimmis :

Militants occupy houses, shops of Sikh community

Wednesday, April 29, 2009
by Our correspondent

KALAYA: Armed militants Tuesday forcibly occupied three houses and 10 shops of the Sikh community in Orakzai Agency who failed to arrange the unrealistic protection money.

Sources said the houses of Sikh cloth merchants were located in the Qasimkhel while the shops were in the Ferozkhel area of Kalaya tehsil. The hapless 24-memeber family headed by Kalyan Singh was given shelter as a Pakhtun tradition by the Manikhel tribe who vowed to protect them against the odds after their forcible expulsion.

Sources said the Sikhs were forced to leave their homes leaving everything behind. Earlier, Kalyan Singh was kidnapped by armed militants 15 days back and after the intervention of the jirga of ulema and elders he was released.

However, his release was conditional as he was directed to arrange Rs13 million during the stipulated time. Kalyan Singh paid Rs3.5 million to his kidnappers while he could not arrange for the rest of the ransom as it was beyond his means. In return, the militants occupied the houses and shops of the family. ……………..

Click

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 May 2009 11:32

Friday, May 01, 2009

One Shia killed, six wounded in Kohat blast

PESHAWAR: A roadside bomb blast in Kohat killed a Shia man and wounded six others travelling by a mini-bus in an apparent sectarian attack on Thursday, the police said. “Seven people were injured in the bomb blast,” local police official Shafiq Khan said. “It appears to be a sectarian attack as all the passengers in the van were Shias,” ............

Daily Times

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 May 2009 19:01

cross post

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Demo ... 471938.cms

Demolition of Sikh homes: India takes up matter with Pakistan
1 May 2009, 1503 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: Amid reports of demolition of homes of Sikhs in parts of Pakistan, India on Friday said it had taken up the matter of treatment of
minorities in that country with the government in Islamabad.

"On seeing reports about Sikh families in Pakistan being driven out of their homes and being subject to 'jiziya' and other such impositions, the government of India has taken up with Pakistan the question of treatment of minorities with the government of Pakistan," external affairs ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash said here.

According to reports, Taliban militants have demolished 11 homes of members of the minority Sikh community in Pakistan's troubled Aurakzai tribal region after they failed to pay 'jiziya' or a tax levied on non-Muslims.

The militants acted after a deadline set by them for payment of 'jiziya' by the Sikhs expired on April 29, the reports said.

The Sikh had discussed the possibility of leaving the area at a meeting of the community but were unable to reach a decision.

Though the Sikhs have been living in Aurakzai Agency for centuries, the Taliban asked them earlier this month to pay Rs 50 million a year as jiziya.

The militants claimed this was being done as Shariah or Islamic law had been enforced in the area and all non-Muslims have to pay "protection money

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 May 2009 12:08

Pakistan, for the seventh year in a row, named as a Country of Particular Concern (CPC) by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF).

Birds of a feather do flock together and both of Pakistan’s closest allies, Communist China and Saudi Barbaria are on the same list:

Commission Names 13 Countries as Religious Freedom Violators

By Dan Robinson
Washington
01 May 2009

The latest annual report by the independent U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom names 13 countries as serious violators of religious freedom. The commission expresses concern about increasing extremism in many countries, including sharp criticism for Pakistan, saying extremism poses a particular threat to religious freedom.

The 13 countries named as Countries of Particular Concern (CPC) in this year's report are Burma, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Eritrea, Nigeria, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan. …………………..

On Pakistan, {USCIRF Head Felice} Gaer said while government leaders "acquiesced" to the rule of Taliban-associated extremists in some regions, members of civil society, particularly women, have courageously objected.

Commission member Elizabeth Prodromou says the situation in Pakistan, a CPC country since 2002, has worsened because of the "largely unchecked growth" of Taliban-associated extremist groups:

"Pakistan's central government in Islamabad has ceded effective control of more and more of the country to these Taliban-associated extremist groups, notably of course, in the Swat Valley and its neighboring districts. At the same time, sectarian and religiously motivated violence continues apace. Particularly acute are violations against Shia Muslims, Amhadis, Christians, Hindus and Sikhs," she said. ……………………..

VOA News

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 May 2009 12:12

"On seeing reports about Sikh families in Pakistan being driven out of their homes and being subject to 'jiziya' and other such impositions, the government of India has taken up with Pakistan the question of treatment of minorities with the government of Pakistan," external affairs ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash said here.

What caused the GoI to take such a "harsh"/"unprecedented" step?

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 03 May 2009 04:47

Pak dismisses India's concerns on Sikhs' treatment by Taliban

Rezaul H Laskar

Islamabad, May 2 (PTI) Pakistan today dismissed the unhappiness expressed by India about the Taliban imposing tax on Sikhs and demolishing their homes in the restive tribal belt, saying the issue was of "no concern" to New Delhi.

Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said Pakistan had responded to India's "verbal demarche" on the issue by making it clear that the Sikhs in this country are Pakistani citizens and are of "no concern of India." "Pakistan is fully cognisant of the issue of the Sikhs and of the welfare of all its citizens, especially the minorities," Basit told PTI.

Diplomatic sources said the issue of Sikhs being forced out of their homes in Pakistan's Aurakzai tribal agency after they failed to pay 'jiziya' or tax imposed on non-Muslims was taken up yesterday with the Foreign Office by the Indian High Commission in Islamabad.

It was also taken up with the Pakistani High Commission in New Delhi by the External Affairs Ministry.

The Indian side was told by the Pakistanis that it "need not worry about the Sikhs" and that the move was "tantamount to interfering in Pakistan's internal affairs," the sources said.

http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.ns ... enDocument

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 May 2009 08:38

State supported Dhimmidom in Pakistan.

I never knew that the that Pakistan had an out and out discriminatory law that made the testimony of a Kaafir half that of a Momin (Qanoon-e-Shahadat).

Is this law truly Islamic or is this law a Pakistani interpretation of what constitutes Islam sanctioned practise

:

Campaign against unjust laws

Although Pakistan was founded as an Islamic state when it came into being in 1947, its constitution did not distinguish between Muslims and non-Muslims. Sadly, non-Muslims who once enjoyed a safe and peaceful life in Pakistan are now forced to live as second-class citizens in their own country, under a system that institutionalises inequality. A combination of islamisation, the imposition of sharia law, sectarianism, religious fanaticism and police incompetence and corruption has steadily eroded religious freedoms. ………………….

Constitutional discrimination

The constitution of Pakistan declares that Islam is the state religion but it also states that adequate provisions should be made for minorities to profess and practice their religion freely. In practice, the government is responsible for enforcing laws that discriminate against religious minorities especially Christians. However, the constitution does not allow for a Christian or a representative of another religious minority to be a President or Prime Minister of the country.

Here is a brief presentation of some of the discriminatory laws:

The Blasphemy law

The Blasphemy law is part of Pakistan’s Penal Code. It was introduced in 1860, ironically to protect the religious sentiments of the Muslim minority in the Indian sub-continent, against the Hindu majority.

By 1986, section 295-B and C of this law were legislated introducing an additional clause of life imprisonment for defiling the Holy Quran. In 1991, the Federal Shariah court struck down the additional clause of life imprisonment in section 295-C, and made death penalty mandatory upon conviction under his section.

Anyone can be charged with blasphemy and be immediately detained without any safeguards or the opportunity for bail. Under this law, the only evidence needed is one ‘reliable’ man’s word. Ill-treatment and torture of the accused in custody are common practice. Judicial proceedings can take years, resulting in innocent victims languishing in jails with pending trials or appeal. …………………..

Amendments of the Hadood law

The Hadood law was amended in 2006, by the Women’s Protective bill.This billbrings charges of rape under the Pakistan Penal Code, which is based on civil law, not Sharia (Islamic law). Under the changes, adultery and non-marital consensual sex are still an offence but now judges would be allowed to try rape cases in criminal rather than Islamic courts. This does away with the need for four male witnesses and allows convictions to be made on the basis of forensic and circumstantial evidence. This law has been imposed on Christians and CLAAS is lobbying for exemption of Christians from the Islamic laws.

Law of Evidence (Qanoon-e-Shahadat)

Another discriminatory law is that of Qanoon-e-Shahadat. Under Islamic Qanoon-e-Shahdat order (enforced in 1984), the evidence of a non-Muslim is not admissible against a Muslim person. Only two male witnesses can testify while four Muslims women witnesses are equal to two male Muslims witnesses.

However, the evidence of non-Muslims may be acceptable if the accused is also a non-Muslim. The implications of this law are obvious in the abuse of non-Muslims who could be falsely accused by Muslims.

Blood Money (Qisas-o-Diyat)

‘Qisas’ means ‘an eye for an eye’ while ’diyat’ refers to blood money for murder, or financial compensation in retribution for physical injury. This law is applied in cases of murder and injury but is discriminatory towards Christians and women due to the number of witnesses required in court to prove a case.

A falsely accused person can be charged with maximum punishment by only two male Muslim witnesses.

Other discriminatory laws

Christians face a number of problems because of other laws concerning marriage, divorce, guardianship and inheritance. For example, a Christian marriage can be annulled if one of the partners declares conversion to Islam.In cases of abduction of Christian women, the Muslim man can declare that his abducted wife has converted to Islam. Thus marriage, solemnised under the family laws of non-Muslims, can be dissolved with immediate effect. ……………….

Educational discrimination

Christian students are discriminated against. They are forced to study Islam from the early years of education and when selections are made for higher education 20 extra marks are given to Muslim students who are Hafiz-e-Quran.This ordinance distinguishes between Muslim and non-Muslim students and diminishes the chances for some non-Muslim students obtaining admission in colleges and universities.

In 1972 the late Prime Minster Zulfiqar Ali-Bhutto made Islam the state religion and the government took responsibility for running Christian educational institutions. This act of nationalising Christian schools broke the educational backbone of the Christian community. As a result, successive generations of Christians have struggled to obtain an education. Thousands of Christians in towns and villages are often poorly educated and have no choice but to accept menial jobs.

Social discrimination ……………..

Lack of religious freedom

In Pakistan the conversion of a Muslim to Christianity is not allowed. Indeed, conversion away from Islam is considered apostasy, a denial of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and an insult to Islam. ………….

However, if a Christian converts to Islam he/she is not allowed to re-convert to Christianity because re-conversion away from Islam is considered apostasy……………….

Forced conversion

Christian women and under-age girls in Pakistan have been subjected to kidnap, abduction and rape. In several cases, girls said to have eloped with their Muslim lovers were subsequently found to have been abducted and forcibly married to Muslim men or sold to them. These girls are rarely allowed to meet their parents following claims they have embraced Islam.

These girls are: considered apostate if the reconvert to Christianity and can suffer dire consequences. Such laws are tools for abusing Christian women who work as servants or slaves in brick kilns. …………………..

CLAAS

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 May 2009 08:43

It's not just the Christians but all the Religious Minorites that are being discriminated against in the releif camps set up to house IDP's caused by the ongoing squabble between the uniformed Jihadi's, Pakistan's security forces and the Un-uniformed Jihadi's, the Pakistani Taliban:

Pakistani Christians Face Discrimination at Relief Camps

Written by Rebecca Easterling, on 13-05-2009 19:55

Christian Web News - In the northwestern Swat valley, more than 360,000 civilians have fled their homes this past week as Pakistan's army attacks Taliban strongholds in the area. As civilians flood into relief camps, Christians are claiming they are being discriminated against by the local authorities.

According to a Christian source, government-designated staffs at relief camps are denying Christians permission to register and the minority faces social ostracism, threats, and abuse.

Pakistan Christian Congress Chief, Dr. Nazir S Bhatti, said the registration process for Christians, Sikhs and Hindus at relief camps has been harsh and he called upon the Federal Minority Ministry to set up separate camps for the persecuted groups.

Bhatti, quoting a displaced Christian, Yousaf Masih said, “The staff on registration duty appointed by government is not permitting them in camps on a plea that Muslim displaced families cannot share food made for them which is prepared and distributed by them.”

According to Yousaf, Christians have been asked to set up tents and prepare food separately ..............................

LINK

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 May 2009 08:52

A compilation of what different media sources / blogs have to say of the ongoing pogrom conducted by the majority Sunni Muslim sect against the minority Shia Muslim sect in the Parachinar Valley of FATA:

Pakistan: Prachinar, The Valley Of Death

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 May 2009 08:58

Pakistan makes it onto yet another list.

Seventh on the list of 10 most dangerous countries for minorities:

Pakistan's religious minorities report violence

By KATHY GANNON – 6 hours ago
KARACHI, Pakistan (AP)

…………. Minority Rights Group International, a watchdog organization, ranked Pakistan last year as the world's top country for major increases in threats to minorities from 2007 — along with Sri Lanka, which is embroiled in civil war. The group lists Pakistan as seventh on the list of 10 most dangerous countries for minorities, after Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar and Congo. …………

AP

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 May 2009 00:17

X-posted..

anupmisra wrote:Pakistan's religious minorities report violence
"The police just stood there"

(T)he screaming grew louder: ‘Long live Taliban! Death to infidels!’

While the Taliban does not carry out all of the attacks, extremist elements inspired by the group will sometimes act in its name.

In dozens of interviews from Karachi to Peshawar, Christians, Sikhs and Hindus told of attacks and threats and expressed an overwhelming sense of fear.

‘In Pakistan today there is a lot of feeling of fear by all the minorities,’ said the Rev. Richard D’Souza of St. Jude Church in Karachi.

‘The police never helped. None of us had weapons. The police just stood there,

D’Souza said the parish is thinking of forming its own armed youth brigades to patrol Christian areas. When he asked the government for armored personnel carriers, he said, two bored-looking policemen showed up for the Easter Sunday service and were gone the next morning.

‘I don’t say minorities are not worried. They have a genuine concern. They have been attacked,’ said Bhatti, a Christian. ‘The Taliban say non-Muslims are infidels, and the people who are misguided zealots can interpret this in any way. Minorities can be easy and soft targets of these extremists, but these Taliban are committing such violent acts that everyone feels fear in their presence — the minority and the majority in Pakistan.’ Equal-Equal

Religious minorities represent about five per cent of Pakistan’s 160 million people, according to the CIA World Factbook. But Michael Javed, director of a peace council and a minister in southern Sindh, charged that census takers intentionally keep minority figures low to deny them greater representation. Christians alone represent five to six per cent of the population, he said.

‘It has never happened in the past like this. Today we feel we have no future. They want us to hide, but we won’t,’ he said.

The Taliban issued an ultimatum in March to the elders of more than 25 Sikh families in the Orakzai tribal agency near the Afghan border: Convert to Islam, join the jihad or pay five billion rupees — roughly $62 million — for protection. ‘What are we to do? We have nothing,’ Singh said. ‘We have asked the government of Pakistan, either relocate us to somewhere safe or send us to India.’

The lives of Hindus are also in danger, according to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. Last month, extremists attacked a Hindu Holi religious festival not far from the border with India, setting fire to a Hindu temple and destroying several shops.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 24 May 2009 01:04

Tarun Vijay responds to Mariana Babars Article/"Spin" published in Outlook as Pir Baba's Orphans.. here

Like a flower in Buner
11 May 2009, 1639 hrs IST, Tarun Vijay

PS : Looks like Tarun Vijay is following this thread, pretty closely..

raji · Post by **raji** » 24 May 2009 03:23

Can we in this thread chronicle step by step and methodically, the history of Hindus in Pakistan since its inception to today.

I would like to propose a very cold, methodical, just the facts style along the lines of "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee", which chronicles the history of native American population decimation and slaughter at the hands of the European settlers. (As an aside, I would imagine most of you must have read this book, if not, it is an absolute must read. In my view, it is one of the greatest books ever written.)

There is no authoritative, genuine and serious literature outlining the history of Hindus in Pakistan and BD (from 1947 to today). Let us create such a source here and compile it. I hear bits and pieces and anecdotes about how Hindus were 1) forced to leave, 2) converted by force, 3) Converted through heavy social pressure, 4) Converted under heavy economic pressure, 5) raped and killed, and 6) the few remaining kept in practically slave status to this day.......

I hope we can create a true historical and factual chronology with events, citations of major pogroms, the sort of social and economic pressures faced by Hindus.......etc...

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 24 May 2009 10:52

raji wrote:Can we in this thread chronicle step by step and methodically, the history of Hindus in Pakistan since its inception to today.

I would like to propose a very cold, methodical, just the facts style along the lines of "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee", which chronicles the history of native American population decimation and slaughter at the hands of the European settlers. (As an aside, I would imagine most of you must have read this book, if not, it is an absolute must read. In my view, it is one of the greatest books ever written.)

There is no authoritative, genuine and serious literature outlining the history of Hindus in Pakistan and BD (from 1947 to today). Let us create such a source here and compile it. I hear bits and pieces and anecdotes about how Hindus were 1) forced to leave, 2) converted by force, 3) Converted through heavy social pressure, 4) Converted under heavy economic pressure, 5) raped and killed, and 6) the few remaining kept in practically slave status to this day.......

I hope we can create a true historical and factual chronology with events, citations of major pogroms, the sort of social and economic pressures faced by Hindus.......etc...

Raji: Look at http://bengalvoice.blogspot.com/

raji · Post by **raji** » 24 May 2009 11:16

csaurabh wrote:
raji wrote:Can we in this thread chronicle step by step and methodically, the history of Hindus in Pakistan since its inception to today.

I would like to propose a very cold, methodical, just the facts style along the lines of "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee", which chronicles the history of native American population decimation and slaughter at the hands of the European settlers. (As an aside, I would imagine most of you must have read this book, if not, it is an absolute must read. In my view, it is one of the greatest books ever written.)

There is no authoritative, genuine and serious literature outlining the history of Hindus in Pakistan and BD (from 1947 to today). Let us create such a source here and compile it. I hear bits and pieces and anecdotes about how Hindus were 1) forced to leave, 2) converted by force, 3) Converted through heavy social pressure, 4) Converted under heavy economic pressure, 5) raped and killed, and 6) the few remaining kept in practically slave status to this day.......

I hope we can create a true historical and factual chronology with events, citations of major pogroms, the sort of social and economic pressures faced by Hindus.......etc...
Raji: Look at http://bengalvoice.blogspot.com/

Thanks saurabh. I will read it with great interest. But it seems to be only about BD and BD atrocities of Hindus have been somewhat documented, although not satisfactorily. What about West Pak ? If no complete documentation exists, can we all research and post all bits and pieces we find on this thread and at some point someone can compile all the posts into a chronological and comprehensible history. This thread can then be a authoritative history and record of Hindu genocide in Pakistan.

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 May 2009 14:50

Gunmen kill three Shia Muslims in D I Khan

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 27 May 2009 06:43

ISKCON, fear attacks by Islamic militants in Bangladesh

International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), a Hindu organization, fear attacks by Islamic militants after helping rescuedminor Hindu boy from madarasa.

Recently, a minor Hindu boy, 13-year-old Poresh Chandra Sarkar, was traced out of his long disappearance. The boy from poor family took up job as child labour in a restaurant in the capital. Dhaka. Far from his village, there a Muslim man, named Hamdu Mia, came to know about the boy’s helpless condition, and with the help of some Maolanas (Muslim clerics) of a madrasa, they illegally converted this immature boy to a Islam from Hinduism and confined him in madrasa, away from all contact with his parents.

After lots of frantic searching for the boy, a clue came from a letter with $58 sent by Poresh to his father on 25.04.2008 through Genera Post Office (GPO) in Dhaka. Based on the clue, the boy’s father Krishna Chandra Sarker contacted a Muslim officer at the GPO. The officer informed Krishna Sarker that he knew of his son’s whereabouts and that he might get back his son if his family converted to Islam.

It appears that the police were connected to the extremists.

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 29 May 2009 01:15

sum wrote:
"On seeing reports about Sikh families in Pakistan being driven out of their homes and being subject to 'jiziya' and other such impositions, the government of India has taken up with Pakistan the question of treatment of minorities with the government of Pakistan," external affairs ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash said here.

What caused the GoI to take such a "harsh"/"unprecedented" step?

Trying to appease Sikhs?

arun · Post by **arun** » 04 Jun 2009 15:39

By the low human rights standards set by Pakistan, mundanely routine stuff.

What however is moderately attention-worthy is the reaction of the Pakistan Police.

The Pakistan Police far from providing security to the threatened working women are reportedly pressuring the Telco’s to sack their female staff:

Pressure on mobile cos in POK to terminate female staff

By: Salman Abduhoo | Published: June 04, 2009

LAHORE - Instead of ensuring equal job opportunities to women in a congenial and fully secure environment, law enforcement authorities are exerting pressure on cellular companies to terminate the services of their female staff in order to avoid the wrath of extremist groups active in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, The Nation learnt on Thursday.

Sources in the cellular companies confided to The Nation that in a letter sent to the local franchises of mobile phone companies doing business in the area, SP Poonch/Rawalakot, has instructed that all female staff must be relieved of their duties with immediate effect. …………………..

The Nation

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Jun 2009 11:10

Mother caned in Bangladesh for talking to Hindu man

By Shafiq Alam – 16 hours ago

DHAKA (AFP) — A Muslim mother has been caned for talking to a Hindu man in Bangladesh, police said Saturday, prompting fresh concerns about a rise in cases of harsh treatment of women under strict Islamic law. ………….........

AFP via Google

arun · Post by **arun** » 08 Jun 2009 13:28

Sunni Muslim exterminates Shia Muslim and vice versa in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

:

Monday, June 08, 2009

Three killed, nine injured in DIK sectarian violence

Two Shia brothers gunned down, one killed as gunman opens fire in market

PESHAWAR: Three people were shot dead and nine wounded in gun and grenade attacks on Sunday in Dera Ismail Khan, police said.

In the first attack, gunmen travelling on a motorcycle opened fire on two Shia Muslim men in the main bazaar of Dera Ismail Khan town before fleeing the scene, local police officer Naimatullah Khan said. …………………………..

Daily Times

Meanwhile over in Karachi former Senator and President of The Jaffaria Alliance Pakistan (a Shia organisation), Allama Abbas Kumaili, is reported as having this to say on the extermination of the Shia’s in Dera Ismail Khan

:

Monday, June 08, 2009

JAP holds protest demo against Shia killings

…………… Labeling the Taliban involved in the bloodshed of the Shia community as US and Indian agents, he said that the Taliban want to destabilize the country by using sectarian violence. …………..

Daily Times

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 08 Jun 2009 19:13

>>Labeling the Taliban involved in the bloodshed of the Shia community as US and Indian agents,

This allegation is just pro forma... they know whom to kill

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Jun 2009 11:34

All in a days work for the pure in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan..

Meanwhile what is particularly interesting about this news item is the allegation that the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is deliberately censoring news of attacks on Christians:

Parcel Bomb injures 10 Christians in Bahawalpur district.

Hasilpur, Pakistan: June 13, 2009. (PCP) A Christian colony was targeted by parcel bomb thrown from a passenger train on Christian Colony near railway track in city of Hasilpur here today. According to reports 10 Christians were injured when parcel was opened by some children in a house which exploded with a big bang heard around city.

The injured were rushed to civil hospital where 4 are in very critical condition and deaths are feared. On night of June 12, 2009, Pakistani media reported a bomb blast in Hasilpur but news was blacked out in newspapers due to Christian being targets. The Pakistan government censors all news item which relates to target of Christians by Taliban or militant groups in Pakistan. ……............

Dr. Nazir S Bhatti, Chief of Pakistan Christian Congress PCC condemned attack on Christians in Hasilpur where Children were seriously injured.

“Like parcel bomb attack news censor the government is keeping secret the presence of Christian IDP,s in any refugee camp and still data is not issued on our demand” said Nazir Bhatti ………………..

[url=ttp://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/headlinen ... ewsid=1198]Pakistan Christian Post[/url]

arun · Post by **arun** » 16 Jun 2009 14:18

No it is not a typo that should have read “Woman”.

For an Islamic Republic, Pakistan does come across as a place well populated with religiously inclined sex criminals with a penchant for offbeat sexual practices:

Christian Man Raped, Murdered for Refusing to Convert to Islam, Family Says

Saturday, June 13, 2009

By Nora Zimmett

A young Christian man was raped and brutally murdered in Pakistan for refusing to convert to Islam, and police are doing nothing about it, the victim's brother and minister told FOXNews.com.

Pakistani police reportedly found the body of Tariq "Litto" Mashi Ghauri — a 28-year-old university student in Sargodha, Pakistan — lying dead in a canal outside a rural village in Punjab Province on May 15. He had been raped and stabbed at least five times. ………………............

Fox News

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Jun 2009 10:24

The Minority Islamic sects must be rueing the day their forefathers fell for the rhetoric of Pakistan being a safe haven for Muslims:

Taliban delivers death threats to non-Muslims

Taliban militants are threatening Christians, Sikhs, and Muslim minoritiy sects with death and onerous headtaxes should they not convert to their violent version of Islam.

Saturday, June 20, 2009
By Aftab Mughal

………………. On May 27, Taliban sent a letter to an Imambargah (Shias’ religious place) at Jafferia Colony in Lahore. The letter was reproduced by an English-language daily. It threatens an attack on the place of worship unless Shias stop ‘anti-Islamic’ activities. It insists the Shias are in fact ‘non-Muslims’. It ordered them to leave Pakistan, convert or face violent consequences. The hardliner Muslims are against the Shia sect and have been killing them indiscriminately in various part of the country, especially in Dera Imael Khan and the Kurram Agency, the lone tribal areas where Shias formed a sizeable chunk of the population. Shias are around 20 per cent of the country.

Ismaili Muslims (another Shia Muslim sect) are also facing threats by the Taliban. According to a report published in the Pakistani media on June 16, the Taliban threatened the Ismaili community that if they will not shut down their offices in Gilgat, Chatral and Islamabd they would be bombed.

Aftab Mughal edits the Minorities Concern Report in Pakistan.

Spero

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Jun 2009 07:56

Intra Muslim violence in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Targetted killing of three Shia Muslim's of the Hazara tribe :

Tuesday, June 23, 2009

Three Hazaras killed in Quetta

By Malik Siraj Akbar

QUETTA: Three Hazaras, including a union council nazim, were killed late on Monday by unidentified men, leading to massive protests by relatives of the victims.

According to details, unidentified armed men opened fire on Talib Agha, Union Council 47 nazim in Quetta, when he was on his way home along with his driver and security guard. ……………………….

All three men belonged to the Hazara tribe that has been targeted for many years in Quetta, apparently by Sunni groups. ………………………

Daily Times

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Jun 2009 08:04

Par for the course in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Those practising the most aggressive brand of Islam are considered the most Islamically pious and thus remain unmolested, twice in the case of these particular individuals

:

All suspected killers of Christian leader acquitted

Friday, June 26, 2009
By Shamim Bano

Karachi

All five suspects apprehended for the assassination of Christian leader Ivan Edwin Moon were acquitted on Thursday due to lack of evidence ………………………..

The acquitted were said to be affiliated with Tehreek-e-Islami Lahskari Jhangvi …………………..

It is to be noted here that all the five suspects who were allegedly involved in the Rimpa Plaza murder case later the same year in which seven persons were killed also acquitted by the Anti-Terrorism Court on March 13, 2009, due to lack of evidence. ………………………..

The News

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Jun 2009 16:57

arun wrote:Par for the course in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Those practising the most aggressive brand of Islam are considered the most Islamically pious and thus remain unmolested, twice in the case of these particular individuals

Those who murder Hindus/Sikhs/Christians in Pakistan will go scot free. Those Hindu girls who are abducted and forcibly converted into Islam and married off, will never be recovered and restored. Those non-Muslims accused of blaspheming will certainly get punished without proof. Even if they are finally released by the Supreme Court (because judges of the lower courts fear retribution from the Believers if they don't award death punishment to the blasphemers), they would have rotten away in solitary confinement at Attock for a decade or more or the other jail inmates would have torn them up in an act of extreme piety. No Muslim would ever be caught, much less punished, for killing a blasphemer because every Believer is expected to do that anyway. Those Pakistanis who seem to oppose the Taliban for orthodoxy will still not say a word against the Talibani imposition of jizya on the Sikhs of Orakzai. Those few wealthy Hindus who are abducted for ransom can never hope to be freed by the police unless and until they pay the huge ransom.

The fate of the Christians in Pakistan is somewhat better than those of the Sikhs and the Hindus. The Christians, while still despised, are at least 'Ahl-e-Kitab' and have the backing of powerful Christian Western governments while the blasphemous and idolatory Sikhs and Hindus are absolutely at the mercy of the barbarians.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 27 Jun 2009 04:35

Those who murder Hindus/Sikhs/Christians in Pakistan will go scot free. Those Hindu girls who are abducted and forcibly converted into Islam and married off, will never be recovered and restored. Those non-Muslims accused of blaspheming will certainly get punished without proof. Even if they are finally released by the Supreme Court (because judges of the lower courts fear retribution from the Believers if they don't award death punishment to the blasphemers), they would have rotten away in solitary confinement at Attock for a decade or more or the other jail inmates would have torn them up in an act of extreme piety. No Muslim would ever be caught, much less punished, for killing a blasphemer because every Believer is expected to do that anyway. Those Pakistanis who seem to oppose the Taliban for orthodoxy will still not say a word against the Talibani imposition of jizya on the Sikhs of Orakzai. Those few wealthy Hindus who are abducted for ransom can never hope to be freed by the police unless and until they pay the huge ransom.

The fate of the Christians in Pakistan is somewhat better than those of the Sikhs and the Hindus. The Christians, while still despised, are at least 'Ahl-e-Kitab' and have the backing of powerful Christian Western governments while the blasphemous and idolatory Sikhs and Hindus are absolutely at the mercy of the barbarians.

Silly questions probably, but would appreciate a logical response:
Why are there non-muslims still alive and around in the land of the pure? Why has TSP permitted these "impurities" to exist? Why don't these boor should convert to the 1 true (sunny) faith from their dark heathen world and move on? Just wondering onlee.

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 27 Jun 2009 07:22

vsudhir wrote:
Silly questions probably, but would appreciate a logical response:
Why are there non-muslims still alive and around in the land of the pure? Why has TSP permitted these "impurities" to exist? Why don't these boor should convert to the 1 true (sunny) faith from their dark heathen world and move on? Just wondering onlee.

Good question.. maybe they need the slaves (haris). If they convert em all, then who would do their menial tasks? How will they show to the world they love their minorities? I think all the Hindus and Sikhs should move to India and we should let them in as a humanity gesture.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Jun 2009 10:40

vsudhir, as Karkala Joishy says, Pakistan needs the Bhangis who clean the sewers and clear the garbage. Jinnah specifically prevented them from leaving Pakistan at the time of Partition because Muslims cannot be asked to do such dirty work. They also need the Haris as the bonded labourers to work the fields. They also need a few wealthy and prosperous Hindu traders, fashion designers to showcase their tolerant and multi-religious society. Besides, they know that over time, they will keep converting to Islam under relentless pressure.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Jun 2009 18:35

SSridhar wrote:vsudhir, as Karkala Joishy says, Pakistan needs the Bhangis who clean the sewers and clear the garbage. Jinnah specifically prevented them from leaving Pakistan at the time of Partition because Muslims cannot be asked to do such dirty work. They also need the Haris as the bonded labourers to work the fields. They also need a few wealthy and prosperous Hindu traders, fashion designers to showcase their tolerant and multi-religious society. Besides, they know that over time, they will keep converting to Islam under relentless pressure.

One has to read the history of the last decades of Aurangzeb rule to understand this social system.
Extreme social suppression of non muslims was taken as a pleasure. The system of slavery and large menial workers for Muslim zamindars was deepened in the Indian society during the Mughal rule and continued in UP and other parts of India even after British came in. The effects of these Muslims Zamindar rule can still be seen in UP and Bihar. The lower castes are shunned by the Muslims landowners.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 27 Jun 2009 23:16

Acharya wrote:The lower castes are shunned by the Muslims landowners.

The irony is that many (if not most) puki muslims today have low caste origins. Many pookies equate low caste or dalits as dark-skinned and themselves as light skinned, thereby rejecting the theory of their forefathers' origins. Both assumptions are wrong.

arun · Post by **arun** » 28 Jun 2009 06:00

Dhimmidom in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Taliban’ demand Jizya from Hindus in Battagram

Sunday, June 28, 2009
Our correspondent

MANSEHRA: An unknown caller Saturday demanded Rs six million as Jizya from the Hindu community of Battagram district, it was learnt.

Sources said an unidentified caller posing himself a rep of Taliban phoned an active Hindu leader Dr Parkas in Battagram, and asked him to collect Rs6m Jizya (tax imposed on non-Muslims) from his Battagram community. The caller, according to sources, said those minorities living in Battagram must pay the Jizya. He asked the doctor to collect Rs6m from Hindu community and pay the amount to Taliban. ……………………………..

The News