Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Karan M
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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Karan M » 13 Dec 2014 14:22

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Which is why I have said before that Bikram Singh was a disaster. This article should find its way to Parikkar and Modi. Lets see if they do anything. Or if nothing changes and it remains business as usual.


Agreed. Amongst the worst political appointees in the top spot. And worae, IAs own internal culture which looks the other way when witch hunts occur.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 13 Dec 2014 14:31

This is not always the case. I have known officers who would back you to the hilt. A few of them did ok. Also culture is often grounded in simple things like daal roti. Significantly hike salaries, pensions and post army opportunities and see what happens. A lot of officers will stand up to bullshit because they are not concerned about making a living outside the army if they have to leave or don't make it to higher ranks.

Also don't forget that PMO was orchestrating a lot of this defanging of the army and Defence Ministry couldn't care less..in fact some of them were outright hostile.

Anyway lets do something now.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby SanjayC » 13 Dec 2014 15:03

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Which is why I have said before that Bikram Singh was a disaster. This article should find its way to Parikkar and Modi. Lets see if they do anything. Or if nothing changes and it remains business as usual.


It is the 1962 saga all over again, with courtiers pretending to be generals rising to top positions, by flattering political leaders who are compromised (MMS) / have a weak sense of nationalism (MMS) / are CIA moles (Termite Queen) / are prone to flattery due to lack of a strong personality / or are plain opportunists (Diggy, Chidambaram, etc.) These courtier-generals are the most vicious in hounding out meritorious generals who actually know how to fight a war

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 13 Dec 2014 16:09

There are just too many accurate data points in that manorama online article.

There is simply no way of getting these details unless someone chooses to hand them over to you. No amount of investigative journalism will get you such details.

My hunch - someone (most probably from within the group) is going for broke here. The army's internal chain of command and hierarchy may not allow these gentlemen to reach the top to air their views. This is the best way for them to reach the top outside of official channel.

There is another angle to it - the defense minister or whoever else (wink wink) who would want to rehabilitate these men, can use this 'public' report to make inquires into the whole saga. W/O being seen as undermining the army authority or procedures.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ravip » 13 Dec 2014 18:21

rohitvats wrote:There are just too many accurate data points in that manorama online article.

There is simply no way of getting these details unless someone chooses to hand them over to you. No amount of investigative journalism will get you such details.

My hunch - someone (most probably from within the group) is going for broke here. The army's internal chain of command and hierarchy may not allow these gentlemen to reach the top to air their views. This is the best way for them to reach the top outside of official channel.

There is another angle to it - the defense minister or whoever else (wink wink) who would want to rehabilitate these men, can use this 'public' report to make inquires into the whole saga. W/O being seen as undermining the army authority or procedures.


Truly too many details!!!

Image

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby HKumar » 13 Dec 2014 18:42

I think a similar story might have been reported earlier. This has more details ....

I hope this information *if true* has been leaked because it has lost all its intelligence value. :|


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-came-c ... 891-3.html

Almost a year ago India came very close to eliminating Dawood Ibrahim, the country's most wanted terrorist and accused in the 1993 Mumbai serial bomb blasts, who is being shielded by Pakistan. A team of Indian commandos had infiltrated into Pakistan to hunt Dawood and were all set to execute the highly secret operation before they were asked to not carry out the strike.

Indian intelligence agencies have been trying to trace and nab Dawood ever since he fled to Pakistan more than two decades ago after masterminding the biggest terror strike in the country.

But several attempts at extraditing him have failed over the years. Now explosive details accessed by IBN7 suggests India attempted a daring covert operation to eliminate Dawood on Pakistan's territory.

An operation was planned in 2013 to eliminate Dawood. Nine agents were selected by RAW for the operations. The operatives were given passports of Sudan, Bangladesh and Nepal. The team was called Super Boys," claimed a source.

For the operation, RAW had sought active support from Israel's Mossad and September 13 was chosen as the date of execution, the source said.

According to the source, "Dawood has been living in Karachi for years and every day he travels from his Clipton Road home to the Defence Housing Society. This was the opportunity the 'Super Boys' chose to utilise. A dargah on the way was chosen as the spot for execution. On September 13, 2013, the nine commandos took positions across the road. The commandos not only knew details of Dawood's car but also had a latest video which exposed his present appearance."

But minutes before the execution, the plan was aborted after a mysterious phone call.

The source, however, did not divulge details about the call, who made it and why the plan was aborted.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 13 Dec 2014 18:46

rohitvats wrote:There are just too many accurate data points in that manorama online article.

There is simply no way of getting these details unless someone chooses to hand them over to you. No amount of investigative journalism will get you such details.

My hunch - someone (most probably from within the group) is going for broke here. The army's internal chain of command and hierarchy may not allow these gentlemen to reach the top to air their views. This is the best way for them to reach the top outside of official channel.

There is another angle to it - the defense minister or whoever else (wink wink) who would want to rehabilitate these men, can use this 'public' report to make inquires into the whole saga. W/O being seen as undermining the army authority or procedures.


Agreed. Someone is settling scores !!

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ravip » 13 Dec 2014 19:00

Of late too many leaks from Intel agencies.... Is it the fight to be in the eyes of decisions makers???

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ravip » 13 Dec 2014 19:03

If any one failed to notice Lt. Col sarvesh D is a maverick from 'SG'.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vishvak » 13 Dec 2014 20:42

chetak wrote:
Inder Sharma wrote:Somebody had highlighted that UPA went after intelligence and investigation community with a vengeance.

They silenced MI using Hindu terror, enslaved CBI, investigated IB, bureaucratised RAW, installed corrupt CVCs, dismantled TSD. Effectively almost all intelligence institutions were placed on notice.

What were they trying to achieve?


The termite queen's pax romana

This hallucination about pax-something needs to be discussed in detail here for any relevance. We can't allow anyone outside to scheme about what should Indians do - to not come in the way as an alternate to independent policies.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 13 Dec 2014 21:51

ravip wrote:If any one failed to notice Lt. Col sarvesh D is a maverick from 'SG'.


:)

Ha ha ha....was waiting for someone to pick that up. Also, the article has mixed up the NSG bit between him and the officer to his right.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Paul » 15 Dec 2014 19:29

India Today ‏@IndiaToday 7m7 minutes ago
AS Dulat, Former Chief, RAW: Mehdi Masroor Biswas doesn't seem to be a terrorist to me @KaranThapar_TTP @HeadlinesToday


With duffers like these leading our CI efforts, do we really need any enemies?

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ravip » 15 Dec 2014 22:08

rohitvats wrote:
ravip wrote:If any one failed to notice Lt. Col sarvesh D is a maverick from 'SG'.


:)

Ha ha ha....was waiting for someone to pick that up. Also, the article has mixed up the NSG bit between him and the officer to his right.


From description of men in the article it seems men from Gurkha regiment rule the MI....most courageous ones enter the lions den and come back unfettered..... Curious case is the one of Indian mole in isi Faisalabad....none less than a Gurkha can dare such a thing after knowing what happened to captain saurabh kalia....height of true patriotism!!!!

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vaibhav.n » 16 Dec 2014 14:09

It Was a T-Shirt That Led Authorities to Mehdi

New Delhi: As the UK-based Channel 4 report on how an Indian was acting as the key recruiter of IS through Twitter headlined on television channels across India, a group of greying men were huddled at their base in Lutyens' Delhi.

The building - erected during the British Raj, which served as a residence of a Maharaja from Bihar - had witnessed many such huddles over the years. Veterans joke that had walls been any less thick, the building would have collapsed under the weight of secrets and conspiracies brick-walled here.

Who was Mehdi and how could an IS recruiter escape detection was the question haunting the men.

While the government kept its calm despite the vociferous Opposition attack over the conversion issue, the sudden surfacing of Indian link to IS had unnerved all. Those who act as the eyes and ears of the Prime Minister were bearing down heavily on the men: "How long will you take to get to him and how far have you progressed?"

An urgent message had already been flashed to the US for the internet logs of the Twitter handle '@SamiWitness' - the purported handle of the IS man. But as with all such requests, there was no hope of getting details on time.

Without server logs, it was impossible to know the Internet Protocol (IP) address, that gives a fair indication of the location. What other technique could they use? The group decided to fall back on tried and tested "old style policing".

Instead of tracking the IP address, they got down to tracking a t-shirt. The Channel-4 report had images of the suspect, but the face was blurred. What was clearly visible was the t-shirt he wore. What also helped was his voice. A voice analysis pointed to a man in early or mid-20s with a "Bengali" accent.

By midday, as the pressure on the investigators increased, a section got busy trawling through Facebook pages using special software, checking for pictures of people sporting similar tee-shirts. The search yielded a few hundred profiles.

"It was expected that 'Medhi' would be part of the name or assumed name and so it was easy to shorten the list of people wearing similar T-shirts," a senior official said. But the list was very long.

The search then moved on to another parallel - phone numbers of people called Mehdi. It threw up people working in very senior positions.

A dilemma gripped the group. Could they randomly question all of them? "In past, several people have lost their jobs and were ostracised because they were examined and we weren't in favour of a fishing expedition," the official added.

"We needed a lot of luck," said another official.

The voice analysis that pointed to a young man with a "Bengali" helped narrow the list.

Phone records of those on the final list of suspects showed normal activity except for the one who went by the name Mehdi Masroor Biswas. And it seemed to match all criteria - a Bengali boy in mid-20s, an engineer who was located in Bangalore.

The next step was Guru Nanak Institute of Technology - listed by Biswas in one of his public profiles - in West Bengal's Sodepur. The college had details of his employment and photo. "The rest was easy," the officer said.

A little after 11 pm , when a section of the team walked into Mahdi Masroor's one-room apartment, he was seated at his computer. The search was over.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby suryag » 16 Dec 2014 16:03

Curious why they couldn't get the original copy of the video without blurring, it is afterall a Channel-4 report and not some video sent by mail to press offices

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 16 Dec 2014 17:30

ravip wrote:<SNIP>From description of men in the article it seems men from Gurkha regiment rule the MI....most courageous ones enter the lions den and come back unfettered..... Curious case is the one of Indian mole in isi Faisalabad....none less than a Gurkha can dare such a thing after knowing what happened to captain saurabh kalia....height of true patriotism!!!!


There is no such thing....MI has it's own cadre. This is nothing but happenstance.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 16 Dec 2014 17:44

ravip wrote:If any one failed to notice Lt. Col sarvesh D is a maverick from 'SG'.


How did you figure that out ?

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby member_26535 » 16 Dec 2014 21:12

Mr Invincible Pigeon...Right time to take out the dons and Jud's.. ? No one will complain now and the whole world might endorse it.. Timing is perfect

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby rsingh » 16 Dec 2014 23:21

^^
WTF

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 17 Dec 2014 05:33

rsingh wrote:^^
WTF


That is lutyen's speak :)

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby member_28640 » 22 Dec 2014 11:51

A re-collection of the bits of data that Indian, US and UK intelligence each had through their own networks but all 3 failed to connect the dots .. Pity, could have stopped 26/11..
"Analysis of Zarrar Shah's viewing habits" and other data "yielded several locations in Mumbai well before the attacks occurred and showed operations planning for initial entry points into the Taj Hotel," the NSA document said.

A top secret GCHQ document described the capture of information on targets that Shah had identified using Google Earth. The analysts seemed impressed by the intelligence haul — "unprecedented real-time active access in place!" — one GCHQ document noted. Another agency document said the work to piece the data together was "briefed at highest levels nationally and internationally, including the US National Security Adviser."

Please to read it in full ..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Spy-data-failed-to-halt-26/11-Mumbai-attacks/articleshow/45599897.cms

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 22 Dec 2014 17:25

Above is bokwas article prior to BO visit. Daud Gilani aka David Headley was agent provacator for US agencies providing targeting data to TSP and US kept quiet.


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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby abhik » 27 Dec 2014 21:37

Any of you catch the documentary on the Purulia arms drop case on Times Now? (I think its going to be repeat telecast Sunday afternoon).

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby nits » 06 Jan 2015 13:43


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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby deejay » 06 Jan 2015 14:44

^^^ Some more deaths related to HAL personnel needs to be put in this category. JMT.


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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 14 Jan 2015 20:44

waiting to see how this shapes up. long overdue.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby morem » 18 Jan 2015 12:06


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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby shyams » 18 Jan 2015 19:46

morem wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Did-RAWs-Colombo-chief-play-a-role-in-Mahinda-Rajapaksas-poll-defeat/articleshow/45928276.cms

Hope we really did this


Irrespective to whether RAW did this or not TOIlet has managed to do the following:-

1) Sow seeds to doubt among the Lankans that their election process was tampered with.
2) Give other countries to point/refer to TOIlet and start parroting how Modi-Doval combination is interfering in other countries democracy.
3) Give Rajapaksha a slight room to wiggle and point fingers at India for his loss. If in future we comes back to power, he might keep this in mind and outrightly oppose India.
4) Makes the new govt. a bit shy about publicly joining hands with India due to fear of being labeled "Indian agents".

Once again MSM has shown that they are irresponsible and immature IMO in their reporting of national security/foreign policy related matters. I am not too keen to see such articles in MSM, especially when they are from "unnamed sources".

For all I know this is a news planted by Chinese/Pak agents via MSM to defame the Indian govt. and to sour the moment of victory for the new SL govt which is clearly not tilting towards China as the previous one did.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby pankajs » 18 Jan 2015 19:55

^^
The original report is from Reuters. So it might not be mischief by our own MSM.

Your last point is *probable* and may even involve western powers to stoke suspicion of India amongst ordinary Sri Lankans while camouflaging their own role in getting the the opposition together. Easiest way to put a strategic competitor for mind-space on the back foot.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby d_berwal » 18 Jan 2015 20:29

^^

The first reports after the election were of coup attempt by Rajapaksa, this news has been blocked by almost 95% of MSM in INDIA.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/rajap ... 150111.htm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 71086.html
http://www.smh.com.au/world/sri-lankan- ... 2mg0d.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... -rajapaksa

why was this news blocked by MSM and after a week they(MSM) create news against their own country ?


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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby devesh » 19 Jan 2015 06:52




if there are any concrete moves in this direction, the govt will almost certainly face motivated opposition of long entrenched networks of the State apparatus. the IPS, let's not forget, was preserved with no more than cosmetic changes from the previous Imperial Police Service.

there will be opposition rooted in a generations-old tradition of "serving" masters and not necessarily an "ideology" of nationhood.

in this fight, I hope the IAS/IPS/Babudom undermine each other and weaken their respective holds over the State machinery.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby nawabs » 19 Jan 2015 07:38

Are you a citizen or resident of India?

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 002_1.html
One of the secretaries in the Union government grew agitated when it was pointed out to him that though he might be holding an Indian passport, an Aadhaar number and a voter identity card, it did not necessarily mean he was a citizen of India.

Shocked, the secretary wondered how. It was explained to him that none of these documents validates him as an Indian citizen, according to the existing laws, and the onus was on him to prove his citizenship before the state.

This is because the Union government neglected to provide certification or a national identity card in accordance with the Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2003, with its genesis in the Citizenship Act, 1955. A citizen is eligible for all entitlements, including voting rights, whereas a resident can be a foreign national.

The latest law says a person can be a citizen of India by birth, naturalisation, descent, incorporation of territory and through the government's special grants, provided he or she meets certain specifications. For instance, those born after December 3, 2004, can claim citizenship by birth only if both parents are Indian citizens or one of them is a citizen of India and the other is not an illegal migrant. Those born between July 1, 1987, and December 2, 2004, have to prove that either parent was an Indian citizen at the time of his or her birth. The restriction does not apply to those born on or after January 26, 1950, and before July 1, 1987.

But people born between January 26, 1950, and July 1, 1987, need to produce any of the 19 documents, including birth certificate, radio licence issued in the 1970s, land records, matriculation certification and death certificate, to have their names registered in the National Register of Indian Citizens. The 2003 law says the Registrar General of India (RGI) must create this citizens' register and issue a national identity card to citizens after verifying their documents and antecedents. Only the RGI's office can provide certification for citizenship.

"Even people in the highest echelons of society and the bureaucracy have not proved their citizenship to the right authority. The law makes it compulsory for everyone to enroll for the National Register of Indian Citizens," said a senior government official.

"It is also true that the voting right is only given to a citizen but in India, the Election Commission could not verify through a robust mechanism whether someone is an Indian citizen or a person from another country. Faking documents is very common in India and it is a Rs 1,000 crore industry in the border areas," the official added.

The Citizenship Act of 1955 was amended following the recommendations of the K Subrahmanyam committee set up to look into security lapses that led to the Kargil war in 1999. The purpose of amending the law was to weed out illegal migrants and provide a credible individual identification system. It gave the RGI the authority to develop a mechanism through which each citizenship claim was verified.

As a follow-up to the Act, the government took up a pilot project in 2003-07 in the border and coastal areas and found 98 per cent of residents were citizens of the country by birth. But the citizenship scheme remained in cold storage till the November 2008 Mumbai attacks that killed over 166 people. After that, the government was quick to launch an exercise to create the National Population Register (NPR) for all residents, a precursor to the citizen register . The NPR has been created and digitised.

The next logical step is to visit each household and obtain documents from residents about their birth claims. These documents will be cross-checked against data collected during the census and NPR process.

The officials say a proposal worth Rs 5,500 crore is pending for months at the Prime Minister Office (PMO) for creating the citizens' register and issuance of national identity card. After the PMO's nod, it will be presented to Cabinet for a final approval.

"It will take another three years to finish the entire exercise and issue the national identity cards," said the official quoted above.

Many believe the government is reluctant to give citizenship clearance due to political reasons. Many parties depend on migrant votes, but it will be almost impossible for an illegal migrant to obtain a fake voter identity card and vote during the elections.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby schinnas » 19 Jan 2015 10:40

morem wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Did-RAWs-Colombo-chief-play-a-role-in-Mahinda-Rajapaksas-poll-defeat/articleshow/45928276.cms

Hope we really did this


Why the doubt? However, the elections were fair and peaceful. Neigbhbouring countries that share huge amount of religious, people and cultural ties such as India and Sri Lanka will impact each others elections in different ways. Just as SL politicians impact elections in TN, India has impacted SL elections.

If anyone believes that SL opposition could have suddenly found unity and rally behind a common candidate, I would like to have some of what they are smoking. :-) That said, this should not be a topic of media discussion.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vishvak » 19 Jan 2015 17:41

The doubt can also be because the reports have not named other countries doing something similar ie playing any role, as also not pointing out attempt of coup post elections (- and role of any other foreign countries in it). Is it not questionable why media would not name/investigate other countries in the same report.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 19 Jan 2015 18:40

vishvak wrote:The doubt can also be because the reports have not named other countries doing something similar ie playing any role, as also not pointing out attempt of coup post elections (- and role of any other foreign countries in it). Is it not questionable why media would not name/investigate other countries in the same report.


maybe because those countries may own/have deep influence with some foreign entities that own media in India??

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby vishvak » 19 Jan 2015 19:23

Well, whatever happened to the enthusiasm during recent terror boat episode and incessant questioning by all and sundry about our own CGI. May be some of it can be spared to inquire about naming & investigating other countries this time.

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Re: Intelligence and National Security Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 19 Jan 2015 21:52

5th-gen jet, mini missile on agenda as Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoygu heads to Delhi
NEW DELHI: Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoygu will arrive here tomorrow on a three-day visit to hold talks with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar and review the ongoing cooperation and future prospects in the crucial sector.

During the talks, the Russian side is expected to raise the issue of the much-delayed joint production of a Fifth- Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and BrahMos mini-missile.
It is also expected to discuss Russian President Vladimir Putin's offer last month to produce the 'Kamov' military helicopters in India, among other things.

The question of a possible lease of a second nuclear submarine from Russia could also come up in the meeting that is being held just days ahead of US President Barack Obama's visit to the country.

Currently, India operates an 8,140-tonne Akula Class submarine -- renamed the INS Chakra -- which was leased in 2011 from Russi for a period of 10 years.

The issues would feature as part of discussions as the two counterparts chair the 13th meeting of the Russian-Indian Inter-Governmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC).

"The two ministers will review the progress made so far and the future scope," defence sources said.

One of the most important deals in the works between India and Russia at present is the FGFA. A Russian team was in the national capital last month to discuss the deal and iron out any differences.

India has said that the basic prototype of the plane is already flying and the Indian version had just a few variations, hence a full-fledged R&D contract would be a waste of time and resources, official sources said.

The preliminary design agreement on the FGFA had been signed in 2010 between HAL and the Russian Sukhoi Design Bureau to build the jet for use by both countries.

But the final R&D contract, which was to be signed by 2012, is still to be finalised. The contract would pave the way for prototype development and flight testing.

Russia is also expected to push for a key deal for the joint development of a BrahMos 'mini missile'. However, sources said that a tripartite agreement in this regard is unlikely to be signed between DRDO, NPOM lab of Russia and BrahMos Aerospace.

The Russian Minister will also be visiting the BrahMos aerospace centre in the national capital.

The mini missile will have a speed of Mach 3.5 and can carry a payload of 300-kg up to a range of 290-km. In terms of size, it will be about half that of the present missile, which is around 10-metres long.
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