China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 09 Sep 2020 21:47

The next one will be more reckless.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2020 01:12

KaranM can you use this thread to keep watch on PLA capabilities wrt their Western Theatre Command.

chola · Post by **chola** » 10 Sep 2020 14:45

Raj47 (former IA intelligence) on the Type 003.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rajfortyseve ... 9522967552

@rajfortyseven
#China #PLAN #JNCX #Shanghai
Construction of massive #Type003 #CV18 has started.
It would be the largest aircraft carrier in the world.
Assessed size:
L=375m (certainly >350m)
B=80m

It can't be over 350M, IMO, the USS Ford is only 332M including the deck. He is measuring the drydock but the 003 modules are not fully connected yet so there are gaps. It will be very large either way probably 100K tons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TychodeFeijt ... 0748212224

Tycho de Feijter
@TychodeFeijter
#China's Type 003 aircraft carrier - latest photos taken today. Under construction at Shanghai Jiangnan Shipyard. Carries comes together very fast. Front and middle sections are being connected. Dry dock partially filled up: Type 052DL destroyer removed, presumably for launch.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Sep 2020 05:30

chola or anyone else,

What is a typical Chinese division deployed under Western Theater Command consists of?
How many brigades? How many battalions per brigade etc?

chola · Post by **chola** » 12 Sep 2020 06:30

ramana wrote:chola or anyone else,

What is a typical Chinese division deployed under Western Theater Command consists of?
How many brigades? How many battalions per brigade etc?

Ramana ji, I'm more of a MIC equipment watcher than pure military but I do know from reading threads that traditionally for the chini army it was Group Army (Corps) --> Divisions --> Regiments with about three of each at each organizational level.

The new organizational goal is to convert to combined arms brigades instead of divisions. Three brigades would replace a division. Not all theater commands are fully converted.

chola · Post by **chola** » 12 Sep 2020 17:00

Excluding border guards and other services, the main PLA combat units in the Western command seem to consist of two group armies of 50K men each. There are 12 combined arms brigades of 5-6K men each split between them.

Only three brigades were based in Tibet (before the current buildup.) And the Western Command is huge, its allotted operational area is about the size of India.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2020/07/ ... 00000.html

US-based PLA expert, Dennis Blasko, told Business Standard he estimates that around 235,000 PLA troops, including border defence personnel and the PLA’s cutting edge “mobile operational units,” are located in the PLA’s Western Theatre Command, which oversees the entire Sino-India border as well as China’s restive autonomous areas – Tibet and Xinjiang.

In March, the Belfer Centre at Harvard’s Kennedy School also estimated “a total of 200,000-230,000 Chinese ground forces under the Western Theatre Command, including the Tibet and Xinjiang Military Districts.”

These numbers include the PLA’s lightly equipped “Border Defence Units,” which are permanently stationed along the border and are geared for border management and patrolling, not for full-scale combat operations.

According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), about 16 Border Defence Regiments, with about 40,000 personnel, monitor Tibet and Xinjiang’s 5,000-kilometre border with India, Nepal and Bhutan.

These Border Defence Regiments are strung out in remote outposts all along the border to observe activity and conduct patrols between outposts by foot or by vehicle, depending on the terrain, sometimes using small drones.

Blasko says patrols are routinely carried out by squads (about eight men) or sometimes platoons (about 40). They are very lightly armed with the mission to observe and report rather than fight. These are the patrols that come into contact with Indian patrols.

Meanwhile, combat operations are the job of the PLA’s “mobile operational units” or “combined arms brigades.” These are assigned to the PLA’s “group armies” or placed under the Tibet and Xinjiang Military Districts.

A “combined arms brigade” is one of the combat structures created in the PLA’s far-reaching reforms of 2017, and consists of 5,000-6,000 soldiers. Besides light or standard infantry, the “combined arms brigade” has armoured vehicles, artillery and air defence guns, engineers and other branches needed for the brigade to perform an operational task independently.

The PLA’s Western Theatre Command has two “group armies” – the equivalent of corps – under it. The 77th Group Army, headquartered in Sichuan, consists of six combined arms brigades and seven support brigades. Of these, three combined arms brigades are based in Tibet, reducing the strength in Sichuan to about 35,000 personnel. These are located some 1,400 kilometres east of Lhasa.

The 76th Group Army, headquartered in Ningxia, consists of six combined arms brigades and six support brigades. Its 50,000 soldiers are located in Qinghai, Gansu and Ningxia, about 1,600 kilometres by train or road from Lhasa.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Sep 2020 05:03

Chola Thanks.
So PLA has about 225K troops in Western Theater Command.

US-based PLA expert, Dennis Blasko, told Business Standard he estimates that around 235,000 PLA troops, including border defence personnel and the PLA’s cutting edge “mobile operational units,” are located in the PLA’s Western Theatre Command, which oversees the entire Sino-India border as well as China’s restive autonomous areas – Tibet and Xinjiang.

In March, the Belfer Centre at Harvard’s Kennedy School also estimated “a total of 200,000-230,000 Chinese ground forces under the Western Theatre Command, including the Tibet and Xinjiang Military Districts.”

These numbers include the PLA’s lightly equipped “Border Defence Units,” which are permanently stationed along the border and are geared for border management and patrolling, not for full-scale combat operations.

According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), about 16 Border Defence Regiments, with about 40,000 personnel, monitor Tibet and Xinjiang’s 5,000-kilometre border with India, Nepal and Bhutan.

These Border Defence Regiments are strung out in remote outposts all along the border to observe activity and conduct patrols between outposts by foot or by vehicle, depending on the terrain, sometimes using small drones.

Blasko says patrols are routinely carried out by squads (about eight men) or sometimes platoons (about 40). They are very lightly armed with the mission to observe and report rather than fight. These are the patrols that come into contact with Indian patrols.

Meanwhile, combat operations are the job of the PLA’s “mobile operational units” or “combined arms brigades.” These are assigned to the PLA’s “group armies” or placed under the Tibet and Xinjiang Military Districts.

A “combined arms brigade” is one of the combat structures created in the PLA’s far-reaching reforms of 2017, and consists of 5,000-6,000 soldiers. Besides light or standard infantry, the “combined arms brigade” has armoured vehicles, artillery and air defence guns, engineers and other branches needed for the brigade to perform an operational task independently.

The PLA’s Western Theatre Command has two “group armies” – the equivalent of corps – under it. The 77th Group Army, headquartered in Sichuan, consists of six combined arms brigades and seven support brigades. Of these, three combined arms brigades are based in Tibet, reducing the strength in Sichuan to about 35,000 personnel. These are located some 1,400 kilometres east of Lhasa.

The 76th Group Army, headquartered in Ningxia, consists of six combined arms brigades and six support brigades. Its 50,000 soldiers are located in Qinghai, Gansu and Ningxia, about 1,600 kilometres by train or road from Lhasa.

WTC troop deployment is worried more about Chinese splitists than Indian Army.

IOW PLA forces in Tibet were sparse about 3 combined arms brigades and a lot of Border Defence Regiments or BSF types.

So they reinforced the troops and called up ragtag militia like the Paki Mujhadeen.

I read that they inducted 4th and 6th division which are 2+2 ie infantry + armor format plus supporting brigades of artillery and air defence, engineer battalions etc..

chola · Post by **chola** » 13 Sep 2020 06:25

^^^ Yes, and the command is spread thin in an area the size of India. Imagine 100K frontline troops to secure from Tamil Nadu to Jammu and Kashmir and across to Assam and AP.

chola · Post by **chola** » 13 Sep 2020 13:36

The army variant of the Z-20 Copyhawk seems to have reach wider operational use. This thing had a three decade development cycle that began with the US ban on parts for 24 S-70s in 1989. (Some of the originals are rumored to be still flying -- copied parts coming from chini MIC which are now going into the Z-20.)

chola · Post by **chola** » 13 Sep 2020 13:46

The Z-20 will be an important aircraft on our border with them going forward. The originals were assigned to the mountain, Tibet in particular:

https://plane-encyclopedia.com/cold-war ... e-service/

Original S-70C-2

Despite officially being classified as civilian helicopters, the S-70C-2 was used in a military capacity during their service with the People’s Republic of China. Initially assigned to the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) in 1986, the Blackhawks were later reallocated to the PLA’s air branch.

In Chinese service, the Black Hawk would mostly be assigned to the Tibetan plateaus, where they resupplied and transported border troops. During the 1987 border skirmish with India, the Blackhawks were extensively used for tactical troop transport and supply runs in the Indo-Tibetan border region. The S-70C-2 was able to carry up to 8000 lbs / 3630 kg of equipment, 12 or 14 people in normal situations , and up to 19 people in emergency situations.

...

It seems that Sikorsky made an attempt to reestablish relations with the Chinese in 1998 by asking the government to allow the sale of replacement engines and parts to the Chinese, arguing that the parts should no longer be considered military hardware. This request, if ever made, was rejected.

It would appear that only 21 of the 24 Blackhawks purchased were in service after 2000. Three Blackhawks were supposedly written off during service, probably due to piloting error or equipment malfunctions. Numerous Blackhawks were deployed during the 2008 and 2013 earthquakes in Sichuan, China to administer aid relief, alongside numerous Soviet-era helicopters such as the Mi-8. The Blackhawks are still in service with the Chinese to this day, but will most likely be replaced by the Harbin Z-20.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 13 Sep 2020 21:53

The Z-20 Copyhawk will be, in every sense, the same solid foundation for a range of variants for the Chinese army and navy as the original Blackhawk proved to be for the US military.

The sale of the original Blackhawks to China was a huge strategic mistake (witting or unwitting) by the Americans.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 14 Sep 2020 04:20

Please watch the video embeded in the post

'Plain Hopeless': Wild Chinese PLA Bazooka Misfire Ends In Heavy Trolling Of China Stooge

chola · Post by **chola** » 14 Sep 2020 05:04

VinodTK wrote:Please watch the video embeded in the post

'Plain Hopeless': Wild Chinese PLA Bazooka Misfire Ends In Heavy Trolling Of China Stooge

Funny! But definitely MANPADS not a bazooka or any kind RPG. According to this, it's a misfire of a Russian Igla at Clear Sky 2020. If it wasn't already a known thing I would have just allowed this to take its course. lol
https://mobile.twitter.com/KingNeptune7 ... 7577540609

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 14 Sep 2020 07:38

Misfiring and equipment malfunction happens to everyone and anyone. Let's not draw too many conclusions from this one incident.

Of course, if there are a series of such incidents with a specific system, then the argument changes.

We use the Igla too, I believe.

chola · Post by **chola** » 14 Sep 2020 14:30

vivek_ahuja wrote:

The Z-20 Copyhawk will be, in every sense, the same solid foundation for a range of variants for the Chinese army and navy as the original Blackhawk proved to be for the US military.

The sale of the original Blackhawks to China was a huge strategic mistake (witting or unwitting) by the Americans.

Vivek ji, at that point in time, it was a deliberate policy to pull Cheen into the US orbit. It was an economic and military initiative under Nixon-Reagan-Bush in the old GOP to bind Cheen to the US led system. It worked for a while.

The Z-20 will eventually become the dominant family I think. That said, the French helos they use today -- Z-9 Dauphin and Z-8 Super Frelon -- are in heavy numbers and are coming out in new versions. They occupy categories just smaller and larger than the CopyHawk respectively.

Some details on the Copyhawk's naval versions. They seemed to have planned this helo in parallel with all those LHDs and carriers coming along with the mass of new destroyers. Unlike ours, their MIC has a long term consistent stream of orders coming. HAL's roto division with all its success cannot bank on a 112 NUH order that should be funding the local MIC.

According to this, there has been some improvements made in the copy over the original including FBW, more lift and more cabin space. (Navy Recognition is a pretty well regarded source in the watchers community.)

Stealing a successful design and then tinkering around the edges to (attempt to) improve it.
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... opter.html

The new Z-20F helicopter is a modified version of the Z-20 designed to perform Search And Rescue operations like the American SH-60 Sea Hawk helicopter. The Z-20 layout is very similar to the Black Hawk helicopter but there are several key differences including a five-bladed main rotor and more angular tail-to-fuselage joint frame, giving it greater lift, cabin capacity, and endurance than the Black Hawk, as well as a fly-by-wire design.

The Z-20 helicopter is powered by two Chinese-made WZ-10 turboshaft engines. The engine is expected to deliver a maximum power of 1,600kW. It can fly at a maximum altitude of 4,000 m.

The Z-20 has a crew of two and can accommodate around 12-15 fully-equipped troops. It has a payload capacity of around 5 000 kg. It can carry around 1,000 kg internally and 4,000 kg externally. It can transport various loads, such as vehicles and artillery pieces underslung externally.

The Z-20J can be operated from the small decks of warships. According to information released by the Drive website, it features apertures for a missile approach warning system (MAWS) and it has a landing gear arrangement similar to SH-60B/F and MH-60R Seahawks.
...

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 14 Sep 2020 17:06

Indians beware.. new tech Chinese Submarine Tank is being sent to the frontline lakes

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Sep 2020 06:51

chola have to ask you as you atleast responded to me.

What is composition of a Chinese Infantry brigade and an Armored Brigade?
How many troops, What equipment, What artillery, etc.
Thanks,

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Sep 2020 07:26

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Armor ... _of_China)

6th Armored Division (People's Republic of China)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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6th Tank Division (1967–98)
6th Armored Division (1998–2017)
6th Heavy Combined Arms Brigade (2017-)
Country China
Type Armored
Size Division
Part of 82nd Group Army
Garrison/HQ Nankou, Changping, Beijing

The 6th Tank Division (Chinese: 坦克第6师) was formed on September 10, 1968 from 6th Independent Tank Regiment, 392nd Tank Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment from 187th Army Division, 393rd Tank Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment from 188th Army Division and 401st Tank Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment from 196th Army Division.[1][2]

As of September 2, 1969, the division was composed of:

21st Tank Regiment (former 6th Independent Tank Regiment);
22nd Tank Regiment (former 392nd Tank Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment);
23rd Tank Regiment (former 393rd Tank Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment);
24th Tank Regiment (former 401st Tank Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment).

On September 1, 1971, 23rd Tank Regiment was detached and renamed as Tank Regiment, 81st Army Division.

In March 1983 Armored Infantry Regiment and Artillery Regiment were activated. From 1983 to 1984 the division maintained an army tank division, catalogue B.

On March 25, 1983, the division was attached to 38th Army.

In early 1984 the division was regrouped as one of the two combined arms army tank divisions(the other one was 3rd Tank Division): the Armored Infantry Regiment was renamed as Mechanized Infantry Regiment, and added a tank battalion and an additional armored infantry battalion. Antiaircraft Artillery Regiment activated.

By then the division was composed of:
6th Tank Division, Organization 1984-98, as a Combined Arms Army Tank Division.

21st Tank Regiment;
22nd Tank Regiment;
24th Tank Regiment;
Mechanized Infantry Regiment;
Artillery Regiment;
Antiaircraft Artillery Regiment.

In 1989 the division actively took part in the enforced martial law and the crackdown on protests in Beijing along with the other units from 38th Army.

In the early 1990s the division re-equipped with Type-88B main battle tanks.

In 1998 the division was renamed 6th Armored Division (Chinese: 装甲第6师). The Mechanized Infantry Regiment was disbanded and absorbed into tank regiments which became armored regiments.

The division was not affected in the 2011 disbandment of armored divisions. It was the only one armored division in the PLA Ground Force from the year of 2011 to 2017.

Since then the division was composed of:

21st Armored Regiment;
22nd Armored Regiment;
24th Armored Regiment;
Artillery Regiment;
Antiaircraft Regiment.

In April 2017 the division was split into two brigades: the 6th Heavy Combined Arms Brigade (Chinese: 重型合成第6旅) and the 189th Medium Combined Arms Brigade (Chinese: 中型合成第189旅).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Sep 2020 07:30

Dennis Blasko Wrote a book called "The Chinese Army Today".

However its written in 2006 means data is even older.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Sep 2020 09:17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27 ... ound_Force

Operational structure

There are 13 corps sized Army groups of China since the end of April 2017, divided among five Theater commands — Eastern, Southern, Northern, Western and Central. Within the Theater Commands, starting 2011, the divisions are being downsized into full brigades (Chinese: 旅; pinyin: Lǚ) - armored, mechanized infantry, field artillery, air defense artillery, engineering and logistics brigades. Many are now full combined arms brigades under these commands, which serve as a Chinese adaptation of the American brigade combat team concept.

The International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) currently attributes the PLA Ground Force with nine active armored divisions consisting of a number of armored brigades and 25 infantry divisions (mechanized or motorized), organized into a number of infantry brigades. Dennis Blasko wrote in 2000[7] that the traditional structure of PLA divisions (armored and mechanized) consisted roughly of three regiments – tuan (Chinese: 团; pinyin: Tuán) (later on brigades) – of the main service arm, each of three battalions (Chinese: 营; pinyin: yíng) plus support units, a fourth regiment/brigade of infantry (in an armored division) or armor (in an infantry division), a field artillery regiment, an anti-aircraft defense regiment or battalion, and signals, engineer, reconnaissance, and chemical defense battalions or companies, plus combat service support units.

A typical PLAGF armored brigade has the brigade HQ, 4 tank battalions (124 main battle tanks) – each tank battalion has 3 tank companies (30 + 1 tank for the battalion commander), 1 mechanized infantry battalion (40 armored personnel carriers), 1 field artillery battalion (18 self-propelled howitzers) – 3 batteries of 6 guns each and 1 air defense artillery battalion plus a support battalion. In a mechanized/motorized infantry brigade, the organization is 4 mechanized/motorized infantry battalions, each wth 40 APCs or infantry fighting vehicles, 1 tank battalion and the rest as in the armored brigades but with either self-propelled or towed guns, together with mortars, in the field artillery battalion.

There are 8 active artillery divisions consisting of a number of artillery brigades. A typical PLAGF artillery brigade has 4 field artillery battalions each with 18 guns in 3 batteries and 1 self-propelled anti-tank gun battalion (18 vehicles).

Brigades are a relatively new formation for the PLAGF. Introduced in the 1990s, the PLAGF plans to expand their number and rid itself of the massive, rigid formations of the Soviet model. As a step towards modernizing its army, this new system allows for smaller, cross-service arm battle groups of battalion size within a brigade to operate independently, increasing the PLA's ability to respond to a rapidly changing battle situation. By the 2000s, the PLAGF had yet to fully take advantage of this new formation, but has been taking steps to successfully integrate it in its force structure, since 2011 the PLAGF has been mostly organized into brigades.

In the 1980s, regional forces consisted of full-time PLA troops organized as independent divisions for garrison missions. An example of such a formation was the 1st Garrison Division of Lanzhou Military Region. Garrison divisions were static, artillery-heavy units deployed along the coastline and borders in areas of likely attack. Regional forces were armed less heavily than their main-force counterparts, and they were involved in training the militia. They were the PLA units commonly used to restore order during the Cultural Revolution.
Special operations forces
Main article: People's Liberation Army Special Operations Forces

The PLA first became interested in modern special warfare in the mid-1980s when it was shifting from the "people's war" to "fighting a local war under hi-tech conditions." The PLA planners believed that the next war would be a short, fast-pace conflict on the periphery rather than a total war on Chinese territories, and conventional infantry-orientated ground forces in their mass numbers could no longer meet the requirements. It specialises in rapid reaction combat in a limited regional war under high-tech conditions, commando operations, counter-terrorism, and intelligence gathering. The size of the Special Operations Forces is estimated at 7,000 ~ 14,000 troops.[citation needed]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Sep 2020 07:05

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Mot ... _of_China)

4th Motorized Division

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mec ... y_Division

6th Mech Infantry Division

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_Mot ... _of_China)

8th Motorized Infantry Division

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Mo ... _of_China)

11th Motorized Infantry Division

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Sep 2020 07:43

ramana wrote:chola have to ask you as you atleast responded to me.

What is composition of a Chinese Infantry brigade and an Armored Brigade?
How many troops, What equipment, What artillery, etc.
Thanks,

From what I gathered reading the chini watchers mil sites (all based in the US), this one by Roblin is pretty accurate.

I believe the basic combined arms brigade for the PLA Ground Forces is not infrantry or armored but rather heavy, medium or light. The designation is based on varying proportion of MBT, tracked and wheeled vehicles.

The basic fighting unit is a combined arms battalion.

https://www.monch.com/mpg/news/land/687 ... rvice.html

Each brigade would have around three battalions.

https://www.offiziere.ch/?p=36272

Chinese Tanks – Part 2: Today’s Types, Training and Doctrine

Posted on July 29, 2019

by Sébastien Roblin. He holds a Master’s Degree in Conflict Resolution from Georgetown University and served as a university instructor for the Peace Corps in China. He has also worked in education, editing, and refugee resettlement in France and the United States.

A combined arms battalion consists of one company of 14 tanks plus three mechanized infantry companies, each with 12 infantry fighting vehicles. Supporting assets, all self-propelled, include two HQ-17 SAM systems (similar to the Russian TOR), six 35-millimeter anti-aircraft guns, a medium battery of 120-millimeter artillery (or possibly self-propelled mortars), and a six-vehicle anti-tank battery with HJ-10 fiber-optic-wire-guided missiles.

The PLA also operates seven amphibious combined arms brigades equipped with landing ships and Type 63A tanks. Meanwhile, the PLA Navy’s Marine Corps recently expanded from two to six brigades, equipped with Type 05 amphibious fighting vehicle. Two each are deployed in Guangdong, Shandong and Fujian provinces. Finally, the PLA Air Force operates six mechanized airborne brigades equipped with ZBD-03 airborne infantry fighting vehicles.

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Sep 2020 08:10

September 10th satellite photo of tarmac at XAC. 17 new Y-20s.
https://mobile.twitter.com/HenriKenhman ... 5295232002

East Pendulum
@HenriKenhmann
17 avions de transport Y-20 flambants neufs sur le tarmac du XAC début Septembre.

Also a rare picture of the Y-20 cockpit:

https://mobile.twitter.com/HenriKenhman ... 7136218113

East Pendulum
@HenriKenhmann
Le cockpit d'un Y-20 du 37e régiment de l'armée de l'air chinoise, qui n'est pas flouté pour une fois.

Unless that guy's head is hiding a lot of dials, it seems like a very clean cockpit.

Here's one posted of the C-17 (which served as template for the Y-20 to copy from) as a point of reference:

Just as they attempted to improve the CopyHawk from the original (FBW, 5-blade rotor, etc.) they are doing something similar to their C-17 copy.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Sep 2020 19:28

What passes for news in China! My goodness!

Just click on that link. Just do it.

https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1303 ... 06913?s=20 --->Impressive training video of Chinese Aeronautical Establishment shows jet speeds along the runway before turning 90 degrees as it takes off with its nose pointing towards the sky.

Livefist replied to that tweet....

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/130 ... 47232?s=20 ---> Hi @PDChina, this is embarrassing.

That’s a remote controlled aeromodel, not a real jet.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2020 22:40

Please we have many thread to put humor.
This thread is for data to assess PLA.
And has become serious since Galwan.
Lots of folks visit for data.

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 Sep 2020 23:11

Funny but relevant:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDei ... 9896977410

@Rupprecht_A
@RupprechtDeino
It seems as if PLAN has found a solution to the smoke and soot problem on their Type 075 LHDs by simply painting the mast black.

chola · Post by **chola** » 22 Sep 2020 12:47

Chinis landed a JL-9G naval trainer on a carrier. They've landed what is basically a MiG-21 on a carrier. The NLCA is much more advanced but will not get any orders ...

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDei ... 6754317313

@Rupprecht_A
@RupprechtDeino
There is some news that a JL-9G successfully landed on a PLAN aircraft carrier. So far no images have been released, but this is a post sharing photos of the congratulatory messages posted by Guizhou Aircraft Company on its social media account.

chola · Post by **chola** » 22 Sep 2020 15:01

Crowd sourced chini carrier tracking. lol. Peepul tracked by sat photos from the very time these carriers left port:

https://mobile.twitter.com/August201908 ... 1250383877

August
@August20190831
2020/9/2
Probably both #Liaoning(#CV16) and #Shandong(#CV17) have left their stations on Sep 1.

I've yet to see sat photos of the Vikramaditya on Twitter but the chini carriers (along with US ones) seem to be staple among this crowd of sat watchers. Advantage in war time? Everyone and his brother seem to know where the Liaoning and Shandong are at all times whether in port or at sea.

chola · Post by **chola** » 24 Sep 2020 12:49

Pretty much an official mag. Their CATOBAR and its fixed-wing complement.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDei ... 7787389956

@Rupprecht_A
@RupprechtDeino
The PLAN KJ-600 carrier borne AEW together with the Type 003 aircraft carrier and J-15 & J-35 fighters on the cover of later issue of the "Naval & Merchant Ships" magazine.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 28 Sep 2020 21:43

Brilliant ~~watch~~ Listen:

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 20 Oct 2020 03:11

Video reveals Chinese H-6N bomber carrying suspected hypersonic weapon

chola · Post by **chola** » 23 Oct 2020 16:20

Interesting look at WS-10 on the Sino-flankers, J-10 and J-20:

I followed the J-10/WS-10 as villianous companions of the LCA/Kaveri for two decades. The bad guys won here.

chola · Post by **chola** » 24 Oct 2020 15:38

Latest J-15 fresh from factory.

This is supposed to be the prototype of the J-15B:

@Rupprecht_A
@RupprechtDeino
Allegedly a first image of an improved J-15B (Batch 03) in flight which is said to feature a new AESA radar (from the 607 Institute), WS-10 engines and able to carry PL-10/PL-15 AAMs.

The Flopping Fish will sailor on despite the debilitating extra weight and safety issues. Wouldn't expect to see the J-35 onboard for maybe a decade or so.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 24 Oct 2020 17:13

chola wrote:Interesting look at WS-10 on the Sino-flankers, J-10 and J-20:

I followed the J-10/WS-10 as villianous companions of the LCA/Kaveri for two decades. The bad guys won here.

Not surprised with this outcome at all. Starting from year 2000, US/West imposed military embargoes on China but obliged the latter with imports of electronics, machinery, textiles, raw materials and everything else. While we were busy importing Sukhoi, Chakra, T-90, Phalcons and what not. The chinese invested the large profits earned from the said exports to expand their industrial base and thereby support their MIC. While our politicos and bureaucrats were making merry with ABC scams. Leave alone development of robust MIC, our govt did not even provide financial incentives for private sector to develop robust civilian industrial base and we ended up paying billions of dollars to buy things like mobile phones, computers, watches, plastic toys etc apart from heavy machinery from our arch enemy. Someone (I think csaurabh) pointed out very rightly that it is the civilian industry complex that supports MIC and not the reverse. Russia lost cold war because their industrial base could not keep up with that of US. Today it is the civilian industrial base of China that has enabled it to make working copies of Sukhois, tomahawks, varyags at a rapid pace, WS10 not the least, in the face of stringent arms embargoes. Meanwhile our Kaveri is waiting for this mythical "TOT" from GE, Snecma and now Rolls Royce. Frustration is an understatement.

chola · Post by **chola** » 24 Oct 2020 18:59

^^^ True, Prashanth ji. The economy and civilian industrial complex underpins everything.

Still there were steps that we refused to take that the chinis did which could have given us a domestic engine. Those are the top and bottom left pictures in that identification colllage.

The "very early WS-10 on the J-11WS testbed" and the "early WS-10 on J-10 prototype 1004." We never got an aerial testbed for Kaveri and we've never put the LCA's intended engine on the LCA.

The chinis simply never gave up on plane or engine. The 1004 J-10 prototype was built in 1997 just shortly after the 1002 J-10 prototype crashed. There they were testing the WS-10 which was blowing up during tests in Gromov while the Kaveri was successful.

We gave up on the Kaveri and are waiting for a white knight savior. A depressing sense of lost opportunity because the Kaveri was actually ahead of the WS-10 during the tests in Russia where they were both at in the same period.

kit · Post by **kit** » 24 Oct 2020 19:33

vivek_ahuja wrote:Misfiring and equipment malfunction happens to everyone and anyone. Let's not draw too many conclusions from this one incident.

Of course, if there are a series of such incidents with a specific system, then the argument changes.

We use the Igla too, I believe.

wasn't the Igla part of the system the Russians were pushing in direct competition to the RSK Biho ?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 25 Oct 2020 08:22

chola wrote:^^^ True, Prashanth ji. The economy and civilian industrial complex underpins everything.

Still there were steps that we refused to take that the chinis did which could have given us a domestic engine. Those are the top and bottom left pictures in that identification colllage.

The "very early WS-10 on the J-11WS testbed" and the "early WS-10 on J-10 prototype 1004." We never got an aerial testbed for Kaveri and we've never put the LCA's intended engine on the LCA.

The chinis simply never gave up on plane or engine. The 1004 J-10 prototype was built in 1997 just shortly after the 1002 J-10 prototype crashed. There they were testing the WS-10 which was blowing up during tests in Gromov while the Kaveri was successful.

We gave up on the Kaveri and are waiting for a white knight savior. A depressing sense of lost opportunity because the Kaveri was actually ahead of the WS-10 during the tests in Russia where they were both at in the same period.

The "lost decade" under the UPA, from 2005-2010, REALLY hurt in more ways than one...

chola · Post by **chola** » 25 Oct 2020 13:14

^^^ We get a second chance with the AMCA and 110Kn engine vs the J-20 with the WS-15 and J-35 with the WS-19 (their 110Kn medium engine.) This time hopefully under the guidance of BJP for its full life-cycle.

This is a WS-10/Kaveri redux. A difference here is today the chinis through the infrastructure built off the WS-10 is they now have major domestic engines as the backup plans or insurance policies in case the main project is delayed or fails.

The J-20 has an interim domestic backup in the WS-10C and the J-35 has one in the WS-13E (or what ever later variant they are tinkering with.) Our backup plan is the F414. If we fail in the 110Kn then AMCA would be in the same straits as LCA with a phoren powerplant.

chola · Post by **chola** » 26 Oct 2020 15:43

A new variant of the WS-10 on the J-16?
https://mobile.twitter.com/HenriKenhman ... 2866456576

East Pendulum
@HenriKenhmann
Une nouvelle variante du moteur chinois WS-10 ?

How this kind of stuff works with watchers:

chola · Post by **chola** » 29 Oct 2020 13:52

Loitering munition swarm for sale: