MiG-21 News & Discussion

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby member_5863 » 03 Nov 2003 01:27

Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to when the Mig-21 will be phased out of frontline service. I know the Tejas are delayed, but should the IAF be currently worried about its combat effectiveness?

Greetings from London.

PS: Keep up the good work everyone.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Prateek » 04 Nov 2003 01:19

MiG Chief Under Fire, Likely to Be Jettisoned
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/10/31/042.html

By Lyuba Pronina
Staff Writer

Vedomosti

Nikolai Nikitin


As the state-owned manufacturer of MiG fighter jets looks set to land its largest-ever defense contract, its director may be heading for the chop.

Industry analysts and players suggest the long-negotiated deal to refit the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier and supply a batch of MiG-29s to the Indian Navy for an estimated $2 billion is too lucrative to stay in the control of Nikolai Nikitin, and that a new frontman will be picked to see the deal through.

Yet the official line is different. The Russian Aviation and Space Agency, Rosaviakosmos, voted late Wednesday for a recommendation to the government to relieve Nikitin of his post as general director of RSK MiG.

One source from Rosaviakosmos and one from an aviation company said that the agency's chief, Yury Koptev, opened the meeting by saying he had recently been summoned by Prime Minister Mikhail Kasyanov. He said Kasyanov criticized harshly the lagging on the government's Tu-334 short-range passenger liner project, which is to be assembled at a MiG facility.

In order to diversify its business, MiG picked up the stagnant Tu-334 program in 1999 and was to launch mass production next year. The program has slumped due to measly financing, with MiG putting up $47 million, but no money coming from the state's budget.

MiG would not comment on Nikitin's fate, but a source said that at the meeting Nikitin had stood up to say he disagreed with the recommendation, which was voted in almost unanimously.

Rosaviakosmos' recommendation comes less than two weeks before Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee starts a visit to Moscow. George Fernandes, the Indian defense minister, was quoted by Bloomberg as saying that India plans to finalize negotiations with Russia on buying the aircraft carrier while Vajpayee is in Moscow. Russian aviation industry sources have also suggested that the deal could be signed during the visit.

Following negotiations that have lasted for nearly a decade, Russia and India have settled on the price of $675 million to refit the carrier, which will have some 20 MiG-29s on board, media reported.

Firing Nikitin for trailing on the Tu-334 project would be a cynical decision, Boris Rybak, first deputy director of the National Project 334 venture said by phone Thursday.

"Nikitin was the only real support for the program," Rybak said. "I think this recommendation is more likely to do with the [upcoming] defense contracts."

Konstantin Makienko, deputy head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, agreed.

"The situation at the firm has gotten better, new defense contracts are expected," he said, adding that the firm, which had no contracts or cash in the late 1990s, had been "brought out of a coma" with Nikitin's appointment.

In 2001, MiG signed $1 billion worth of contracts for 36 MiG-29s and last year delivered $370 million worth of jets.

Makienko said that taking up the Tu-334 project had been a mistake.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Kakkaji » 08 Nov 2003 21:55

What happened to the IAF-News Folder? :mad:

From 'Hindu News Update' of Nov. 08, 2003
(link may be temporary, hence posting in full)

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/00108163060.htm

*************
MiG-21 collides with UAV :eek:
New Delhi, Nov. 8. (PTI): An MiG-21 fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force collided with an Unmanned AeriaL Vehicle (UAV) near Bhatinda in Punjab last month, but the pilot managed to land safely at the airbase.

In the incident which has come to light today, the MiG-21 collided with the UAV as it was coming back to the airbase after a routine sortie on October 24 at around 12.30 p.m., IAF sources said.

The MiG suffered extensive damage, but the pilot managed to land it back on the runway. The collision, sources said, however sent the Israeli made Heron UAV into a giant spin.

The UAV went out of the control of the ground directors and smashed into a house on the periphery of airbase injuring a 14 year-old-girl.

The child, sources said, suffered extensive burn injuries, but escaped death.

An IAF spokesman when approached for comment on the accident here said "there is no official reaction from our side."

IAF has recently inducted a large number of Israeli-made medium altitude 'Heron' and high altitude 'Searcher' UAVs and personnel are being trained to operate these in airbases spread all over the Western Air Command.
***************

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby VikramS » 09 Nov 2003 00:08

The Mig21 in the mid-air with the Heron, the Jaguar crash at Ambala where the plane tangled with the runway barrier during the take-off run, all point to the need for upgradation in the processes followed at IAF bases. In the case of the mid-air collision the Mig pilot and the UAV operator both seem to be unaware of each other's presence, pointing to a gap in centralized coordination.

The non-removal of the crash barrier was a glaring procedural error, where the system in place failed to check that the SOPs were not being followed. From what Jagan had written, that looked like a case where both the ground personnel and the section leader leading the Jaguars forgot to account for the barrier. I guess the Jag pilots who where flying with a full weapon load, were focussed on the mission and forgot about something which is routinely taken care off by ground personnel. This is where automated sensors, control and warning systems really help since they can detect a human error or a series of human errors before they turn fatal.

The air-fields have to grow from an aircraft launch and recovery area to an air-space management center. I do hope the IAF is investing in the infrastructure and training needed to effectively manage and deploy the gizmos they are getting.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Rupak » 09 Nov 2003 00:40

VikramS

From what I understand, the Jaguar crash into the crash barrier resulted from a mechnical fault with that particular Jag. IIRC, the airbrakes became deployed in error and without the pilots knowledge, making the aircraft stall at a curial juncture. The aircraft came down beyond the paved surface and in the overrun area.
So this case has nothing to do with faulty SOPs.

As far as the MiG-21/Heron collision it remains to be seen under what circumstances it occured. It is highly possible that it was an accident that occured during an interception exercise.
The same ATC would have been responsible for both craft, and therefore seems unlikely that it was a case of one being unware of the presence of the other.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby VikramS » 09 Nov 2003 19:31

Originally posted by rupak:
VikramS

From what I understand, the Jaguar crash into the crash barrier resulted from a mechnical fault with that particular Jag. IIRC, the airbrakes became deployed in error and without the pilots knowledge, making the aircraft stall at a curial juncture. The aircraft came down beyond the paved surface and in the overrun area.
So this case has nothing to do with faulty SOPs.

Rupak:
My only source of information about the Jag crash is Jagan's warbirdsofindia website. According to that and a few posts exchanged , the crash barrier is supposed to be removed for take-offs as a part of the SOP. The aircraft seems to have hit the barrier, though it may have been an effect and not the cause.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Calvin » 09 Nov 2003 22:19

Folks, the comments regarding contamination control hold regardless of whether we are talking about jet fuel, gasoline or avgas. Also, removing water from "fuel" (i.e., gasoline, jet, or avgas) is exceptionally easy. If you flow fuel through a "salt bed" (mostly sodium or calcium chloride), the fuel comes out at the top dehydrated ( < 20 ppm), with brine coming out the bottom with much of the water. It might be beneficial to have a particle filter before and after the salt bed to prevent particles clogging up the salt bed, and prevent salt carryover into the fuel respectively.

Probably the easiest way of doing this is prior to loading the final dispensing tanks. In fact, it is probably relatively inexpensive to make a skidded unit that is mounted on a truck, for this purpose.

The reason water is critical is because it oxidizes the hydrocarbon in the presence of metal - in piping and bearings etc - and then the organic acid that is formed combines with water to create corrosion, corrosion creates particles and particles cause wear. Also water can cause cavitation in bearings as they vaporize, thereby causing pitting in bearings etc.

Also note that jet fuel also serves as a hydraulic and lubricating function on planes. Consequently, its fluid quality is critical. And if we keep water out of the fuel before it is loaded, we will be fine.

Umrao - ATF = Aviation Turbine Fuel

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Prateek » 27 Nov 2003 01:16

Overheating of engines caused MiG crashes: Probe
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_473026,0008.htm

Metallic components of MiG's engine have come under scrutiny in a probe that sheds new light on the Soviet-made fighter's likely causes of crash earlier blamed on engine flameout or pilot error.

Instead, scientists at the Jamshedpur-based National Metallurgical Laboratory blame MiG crashes primarily on the metallic components of its engines.

Surface overheating was found on engine parts of two crashed MiG 23s that were brought for investigations.

This, scientists say, "softened" the parts unusually in flight and in turn may have led to the crashes, in Ambala and in Jodhpur earlier this year.

It could not be verified whether the "softening" occurred due to worn-out or fatigued engine parts, or because of a flaw in their metallic composition.

The finding is significant as media reports some years back said the IAF was procuring low-quality MiG spares from splintered Soviet republics to keep the aging fleet fighting fit after a supply shortfall from its manufacturer. The IAF then denied the charge.

MiG engines are assembled at HAL's plant in Koraput, Orissa.

The probe, led by metallurgist SR Singh, examined at least 10 damaged engine components.

A key component examined was the fuel pumps of the engines, a small but vital part blamed for many crashes by earlier probes.

In these crashes, too, Singh found the pumps had seized all of a sudden before the crashes.

"Singh found 'metallurgical transformation' that took place after this 'choking' as one of the main causes of crash," said NML director SP Mehrotra.

The report has been submitted to the IAF, which commissioned the probe in June.

MiGs, the mainstay of IAF's fighter squadrons, have been crashing routinely, particularly MiG 21s and MiG 27 Bis variants, killing young pilots.

But the IAF maintains the aircraft is fit to fly with former Chief of Air Staff AY Tipnis even flying a Mig 21 at a public event to underscore its safety.

His successor, Air Chief Marshall S Krishnaswamy, backed the MiG 21 at first, but ordered a temporary grounding of some MiG variants following a public outcry after a series of crashes.

As families of slain pilots and the media mounted a campaign against the MiG 21s, derisively named the 'Flying Coffin', Defence Minister George Fernandes himself flew a sortie in it in a move that drew jeers from families of dead pilots, who called for an "end to the circus".

The single-engine MiG 21 and 27 have claimed more pilots in peacetime than in the three wars India has fought with Pakistan since its independence in 1947.

A section of ex-IAF pilots blame the crashes on the absence of an AJT (advanced jet trainer).

Pilots trained on the subsonic Kiran trainers are asked to leapfrog to the supersonic MiGs, they cite, leaving a wide margin for error.

But the Centre realised the importance of an AJT only in 2003, when it cleared British Aerospace's Hawk trainer for the IAF, almost 20 years after a proposal for it was made and many pilots were lost.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby SaiK » 27 Nov 2003 02:38

mmm.. and this probe has to come only after the hawk trainer deal.. I understand, the need, and thus should be based on needs.. and I hope there is no link to the timing of these, w.r.t the factors that are influencing on major defence deals.

one cannot deny the corruptions involving purchasing low quality parts.. and hope, the deaths of our outstanding pilots cannot be measured with such answers. "quality consciousness"!!

Having figured it out, we need rework on all the engines of migs now. replacing all the low quality parts, especially thats matching with the findings.

Why is that we still love the migs? what is this fatal attraction? we recently did send our forces to test pilot a few mig-29s for purchase. Now, or never, we must get out of bad quality buying spree.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 28 Nov 2003 17:25


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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Nov 2003 20:02

Originally posted by Calvin:
Folks, the comments regarding contamination control hold regardless of whether we are talking about jet fuel, gasoline or avgas. Also, removing water from "fuel" (i.e., gasoline, jet, or avgas) is exceptionally easy. If you flow fuel through a "salt bed" (mostly sodium or calcium chloride), the fuel comes out at the top dehydrated ( < 20 ppm), with brine coming out the bottom with much of the water. It might be beneficial to have a particle filter before and after the salt bed to prevent particles clogging up the salt bed, and prevent salt carryover into the fuel respectively.

Probably the easiest way of doing this is prior to loading the final dispensing tanks. In fact, it is probably relatively inexpensive to make a skidded unit that is mounted on a truck, for this purpose.

The reason water is critical is because it oxidizes the hydrocarbon in the presence of metal - in piping and bearings etc - and then the organic acid that is formed combines with water to create corrosion, corrosion creates particles and particles cause wear. Also water can cause cavitation in bearings as they vaporize, thereby causing pitting in bearings etc.

Also note that jet fuel also serves as a hydraulic and lubricating function on planes. Consequently, its fluid quality is critical. And if we keep water out of the fuel before it is loaded, we will be fine.

Umrao - ATF = Aviation Turbine Fuel
Engine fuel pumps have since been modified after the visit of the Russian delegation and a survey of fule storage procedures. The fuel filter especially has been modified.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 29 Nov 2003 00:12


George J

Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby George J » 29 Nov 2003 00:19

This is the first crash since July 14th. That's over 130 days....pretty impressive considering one used to go down ever 40 days.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Rishi » 21 Feb 2004 18:29

up

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Ashutosh » 21 Feb 2004 23:29

Why do you want this "up"?

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Purush » 25 Feb 2004 00:19


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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 01 Mar 2004 14:10

Photo of the much talked about "Asian Brown Cloud" that covers almost all of India. Pakistan is only 33% covered from the photo:

<img src="http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/browncloud_asia020812.jpg" alt="" />

ACM Tipnis has referred to the low visibility in India and how it affects the AF.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 01 Mar 2004 14:24

Some more photos of the haze:

<img src="http://www.nature.com/nsu/020812/images/india_160.jpg" alt="" />

<img src="http://www-ramanathan.ucsd.edu/VRimages/FourPhotosNatMay00forweb.gif" alt="" />

I think when foreigners (and NRI/PIOs) come to India they always complain about the air, I used to think that it was because of the Delhi vehicle population. But even if you head out on the highways, where you can even see the stars folks still compain.

Rain cleanses the atmoshphere, which explains why we all love the Monsoon.

Any idea why Chennai is spared from this?

Check out this guys' website - he has also worked on INDOEX:

http://www-ramanathan.ucsd.edu/

More info just go to Google and search for "Asian Brown Cloud".

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Sribabu » 01 Mar 2004 17:09

The problem of haze effects GA in UK too. Here the cause is Saharan dust. It effects visibility from ground level to 3000ft (usually) which is the region in which most of the Mil. flying happens(in Uk it is generally below 600ft).

In this haze, though the sun is out and bright, the visibility can reduce to levels where you cannot use VFR for flying. For GA and Civil aviation, it is not much of a problem as they can fly above the layer. But in areas around London, with the London/Heathrow TMA starting at 2500ft, you might not have the choice but to be within the layer.

In India, the problem is aggrevated due to use of firewood for cooking in most of rural areas. One of the programs that were tried was using better chulahs to reduce the smoke content which not only helps in the health of the women and provieds efficient fire source, it also helped in cleaning up the environment to some extent.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Sandeep » 10 Mar 2004 11:42

The Deal for the Hawks has again got a setback.
The indigenious AJT is not ready.
The Hawks even if finalised will not be ready for few years.
Does this mean that we have to condider another 100+ ACs crashing as a bitter reality?

Its being said that many pilots who lose their lives are rookies who are trained on MIGs directly after Iskras and Kirans?

Now one question that comes to my mind is...
Cant these old Migs be converted or modified into trainers.

Remove some of the Hi-Fi Electronics stuffs, Reduce the fuel content, reduce speed, make the Mig light and Agile and just keep that much ordinance and systems that will be required by a new pilot on training.

Is this not possible. If this can be done then does the IAF need to go for Hawks.

What is going to be done to the Migs that are phased out?

Genuine Replies expected.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby JCage » 10 Mar 2004 11:59

Frankly, I am suprised that people are surprised over the Hawk deal having suck stuff coming at the nth moment...I mean, the deal was too good to be true with TOT and all that. The Brits are (in)famous for such stuff...the last time around a Brit firm similarly held HAL to ransom with the OAC Mission Computer, HAL showed them the finger since it now had the LCA derived system to replace the one that was to be supplied by Smiths Aerospace.

Manoj Joshi being...well Manoj Joshi lays the onus of blame on HAL, but then goes on to reveal what the Defence Secretary notes: That BaE *revised* certain costs and hence HAL was taken aback. Typical.

Now this is what is truly interesting.
1. The TOT that we were getting from the Hawk is not critical.
2. HAL can -per many reports- make an AJT.
3. IAF needs an AJT fast- whether it be Indian or Brit.

Whats to be seen is whether the Indian establishment picks up the gauntlet and goes with its own AJT - a long overdue gesture but with the cost of the rookies in the IAF, some of whom will need the AJT...or....

We take the prudent decision and buy the Hawk at whatever cost!

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Vriksh » 10 Mar 2004 12:53

why don't we outsource intermediate training to say Australia/US/Russia/France/Germany/Argentina/Brazil.

Whoever has the cheapest trainers and systems in place as a stop-gap. We could then offer them a quid pro quo by training them in say Dog fighting etc etc.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby JTull » 10 Mar 2004 14:05

With France and Russia having started cooperation to make Mig-AT a better product, you may see India joining the boat. Although we can make our own AJT, it may make better commercial sense to join the boat as a risk sharing partner with some technologies and components being developed in India. With most of our fighters being Rusian/French in origin and LCA/Bison/MKI having Russian/French components, we as an end user would have more experience of blending the two skills. It will definitely have a faster turn around time than if HAL decided to upgrade IJT to twin engined AJT. Even if the sanction comes today, it may be 2 years before a domestic AJT flies and another 2-3 years before first one is delivered to IAF.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Jagan » 10 Mar 2004 15:27

Originally posted by Sandeep:
Now one question that comes to my mind is...
Cant these old Migs be converted or modified into trainers.

Remove some of the Hi-Fi Electronics stuffs, Reduce the fuel content, reduce speed, make the Mig light and Agile and just keep that much ordinance and systems that will be required by a new pilot on training.
Most of the existing two seater Migs just have the basic ordnance and systems required by trainee pilots.

Its not possible to use a mig as an ajt, you cant 'reduce speed' just by reducing the operational wt of the aircraft.

The MiG-21's poor low speed characteristics dont make it suitable in the role of an AJT . It has a higher landing speed due to its smaller wing area , and during flight, the instructors view is restricted and air combat and cannot be performed without engaging reheat. Redesigning all this would be a waste of time and effort.

The IJT has the potential to be redesigned as an AJT and HAL would definitely work on it once we get the IJT production to progress.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Vick » 10 Mar 2004 17:05


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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Talathi » 10 Mar 2004 17:34

Pokhran near Pune
:eek:

This article states that unkil could possibly give the IAF AESA. How likely is this?

IMHO the US would not give us anything that is state of the art. Why should it? Even without it ,the falcons would cost an arm and a leg. Look at the Poland deal. Too much for IAF. As has been said many times on this forum, inspite of all these efforts by agents and touts, the best option would be to directly buy M2K's in the short term - About a squadron a year for te next 4 years.

In the medium term we must develop our own AESA for the LCA.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Umrao » 10 Mar 2004 17:40

About the haze cover on Indian sub continent, recently I was flying from Delhi to Varansi,( feb 22/04) and the day was crystal clear around 20 minutes into the flight (sahara aircraft canadair CL 70). The pilot announced that we could see the Himalayas from the windows on to our left.

I tried to take pictures with my Minolta (SRT 201) but I didnt get a good shot. It was spectacular to say the least, we were around 31,000 feet cruising.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Sribabu » 10 Mar 2004 17:49

Originally posted by John Umrao:

I tried to take pictures with my Minolta (SRT 201) but I didnt get a good shot. It was spectacular to say the least, we were around 31,000 feet cruising.
Strictly speaking, it is illegal to take picture while in air in India. According to the rules/law, your photo bag is to be sealed before flight and checked afterwards. But I have seen this being enforced only on some B'lore flights or atleast the anouncements towards it.

Sri

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Umrao » 10 Mar 2004 18:26

Sri>> That rule has been relaxed, except for airport/ during landing and was announced by the inflight air hostess.

I had my camera completely visible to the all the staff at Indira Gandhi air port.

FYI

Guest

Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Guest » 10 Mar 2004 23:36

Now is the MAKO ,Mig AT and T-50 (s korea!!) slowly getting into the equation....i believe MAKO and T-50 werent evaluated as they were not ready when the hawk ajt was short listed...... T-50 also uses the GE404 series for its power plant, has a more advanced cockpit and is atleast a generation ahead compared to the british hawk.........will we see the present deal called off and have the newer jet trainers included?..or will it be the first deal to be signed formally after the elections ?

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby fanne » 10 Mar 2004 23:46

Any news how many Bisons are out there. The project should be ending with all 125 converted.

rgds,
fanne

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby b_ravi » 11 Mar 2004 03:40

Originally posted by AbhiST:
Pokhran near Pune
:eek:

This article states that unkil could possibly give the IAF AESA. How likely is this?

IMHO the US would not give us anything that is state of the art. Why should it? Even without it ,the falcons would cost an arm and a leg. Look at the Poland deal. Too much for IAF. As has been said many times on this forum, inspite of all these efforts by agents and touts, the best option would be to directly buy M2K's in the short term - About a squadron a year for te next 4 years.

In the medium term we must develop our own AESA for the LCA.
We "are" developing AESA, DRDO did do some R&D in the active phased array tech and in Aero2003. The L-band T/R modules and MMIC components for AESA were being developed for some time. The Americans might just offer AESA to us.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 06:18

Is it possible for some truly patriotic jingo with a heart to write up an article CAPTURING all the information in this thread? The last post here was in 2004, and I hate to lose the essence of the 111 posts here.

Please, please, please? BRM awaits you.

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 08 Nov 2008 09:15

archive for this one too, for old times sake ! :)

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby jamwal » 08 Nov 2008 13:02

Narayanan saar taking his new duty quite seriously :D
I was surprised to see all these old threads on 1st page


Apart from that, has anybody read Brother's Keeper by Jim Deflice?
It has interesting ideas on modifying a Mig 21 to be completely invisible on radar. Its pulp fiction :oops: for sure, but still am curious to know if its possible.
Following changes were made in the Mig in that book
"Tail section a jagged circle angling slighly upwards instead of a conventional wings-and-fin arrangement. Its main wings had tirangular cuts in them, sharp indentations that looked like oversized sawteeth on trailing edges.."
.."Its was designed to be nearly invisible.The odd shape of rear helped. So did the coating of plasticized carbon hybrid over the entire surface including the canopy...
biggest advantage came from an array of antennas installed throughout the fuselage and controlled by a device about the size of a large lunc pail in the avionics bay. The device was able to detect and mimic different radar patterns, effectively blanking an enemy radar.'
(I guess this last thing is the toughest part :P )

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby sum » 08 Nov 2008 17:28

The Bison sure seems to have put some fear within the USAF(going by the red flag "controversial" video)...So, the MiG-21 is not yet ready to fly away into the sunset!!!

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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby p_saggu » 08 Nov 2008 19:21

A few Bisons had a carbon composite tail piece. This was a prelude to airframe sections development for the LCA. Apparantly it was a single large CC piece - quite a formidable acheivement.
All IAF fighters have more - All have RAM paint treatment on to reduce RCS. The Mig 21 design with its air intakes makes for a very streamlined peice of flying maching with no air intakes jutting out to spoil RCS.
But the USAF is making it sound even much better, while running down Queen MKI.
PSYOPS

Austin
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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Austin » 08 Nov 2008 19:33

It should not be surprising that Bison is receiving all the praise , Its a small aircraft , with RAM treatment its RCS has been significantly reduced , visually too its a very small aircraft to track , combined with radar , BVR missile and EW ..... for an opponent its a worst nightmare.

The MKI inspite of all the bells and whistles , is an aircraft with significant RCS due to directly exposed engine and visually its like a sun shining in the dark sky inspite of all its agility.

In IAF DACT the Bison was a very though competitor for the MKI to handle

Lalmohan
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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Nov 2008 23:47

i saw a mig21 once from up close and it was astonishingly small. the airframe design is fantastic, it flies at mach 2+, has good dogfighting performance and now great radar, jammers and missiles. it still lacks endurance, but with inflight refueling should be capable of long CAP and not just point defence

as long as there is life in the airframe, we should keep this bird flying

Vikram_S
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Re: MiG-21 News & Discussion

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Nov 2008 01:49

austin,

>>"The MKI inspite of all the bells and whistles , is an aircraft with significant RCS due to directly exposed engine and visually its like a sun shining in the dark sky inspite of all its agility. "


the assumption you make here is that mki has had not similar treatment as bison
pls read on mki to know more from electronic defense online
kopyo 21 range for mki target is just not enough

second pls be aware of drfm based jamming and what it will do a radar like kopyo21, when it can handle radars like APg63

>>In IAF DACT the Bison was a very though competitor for the MKI to handle


in DACT MKI can see bison from extreme range testifying to bars capability and it has the ability to disengage as it when it wanst thanks to combination of payload and range


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