What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

shim george
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What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by shim george »

Dear everybody,<BR> I want to know more information on Indian police. Are they prepared to deal with people with guns and car chases? What kind of police cars do the Indian police use besides that Maruti Gypsy and Mahindras? Also do they have any helicopters to find out where a man is going if he is running away from the police? In the U.S there have been Police Videos of wild things happenning on the roads. THey show car chases and all the time the police catch them. Are the Indian police quite reliable? Thank you very much. By the way if this is not the right place to have the topic then I would be glad to make one in the other forum.
George J

Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by George J »

i cant speak for all places but in mumbai:<BR>They have Tempo Trax, Mahindra MM540 or so and now Maruti Gypsies for mobile response unit or something like that. Plus traffic pandus have Enfield.<BR>During Ganesh Utsave, Mr.Commisioner takes one round in the Govt. Helicopter to look at "Bandobast".<BR>Communication: I have seen some pretty slick looking handsets at the ACP/DCP level onwards but only for the city police (in mumbai you also have state police ppl). A reliable source once told me that you could make wireless to telephone calls with these handsets (Kenwood i think). <BR>Weapons: the earstwhile SOS (Spl Operation Squad) had AK series, even the new commandos have AK. Have not come across MP5's yet. The CP level officers have their ubiquitous Tata Estates with one or two Gypsies with lotsa AK (depending on threat preception) Oh there is some Kevlar body aromour floating around too (mostly VIP security and encounter work). Which reminds me if you know the Worli Naka area you will find a couple of Bullet Proofed Maruti Gypsies parked there with their occupents sipping a cutting. I think these are used by Salaskar and company (i.e the encounter squad)<P>More useless trivia:<BR>When i was in GA, i got to fire 50 rounds on a MP5 and 50 rounds on a Glock 17. That was the best $35 i have ever spent. Factoring in the fact that i have never shot or held a gun in my life.....the GLOCK 17 was an amazingly easy pistol to use (i actually got a few shots somewhere on the target). Now i know why its so popular among the Bhai log. Its pretty cheep too $250. Not bad. The bullets cost me $8/50rounds..could have got it cheeper in Walmart. The MP5 was amazing.....three modes of fire single shot, three and fully automatic. And super light. The guy behind the counter highly reccomended it compared to the AK 56. He said i wont hv much of a shoulder left from the AK and the MP5 "wonderful" for novices. It cost only $7,000 and can empty its magazine(25 rounds) in about 5 sec in full auto mode. BTW i tried it...not one hit my target so dont belive Bruce Willis in Die Hard...it aint as easy at it looks.<P>Hey if TSP pandus can have them why cant our pandu have MP5?? <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by George J (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sunil »

<BR>To make a fine point, the designation `sten' is used generically to denote both the Sterling 9mm and the Sten 9mm (WWII vintage). AFAIK the Sterling is a better weapon. <P>MaPo (Mah. Pol.) SRP carry Ishapores/303s, look pretty nice.. though i feel that the 7.62 cartdrige is a bit heavy for police work.<P>Police training for MaPo at the PTS in Thane and Nasik. There is also an LA (Local Armoury) Division inside the larger police forces in Maharashtra. <P>Most police forces have an STF/SOS of some kind these guys carry AKs usually from a captured/confiscated stock. <P>Provincial Armed Constabularies are armed with a combination of 303s and Ishapores. <P>Many police officers carry sidearms.. usually 9mm stuff nothing fancy like a glock. <P>Highway patrols are usually a mixed bunch drawn from the local constabularies lining the road itself. Ideally we should now move towards a IG-Highway Patrol at the state level. Patrol equipment includes VHF radios, Ambassador cars, Gypsy/Trax/Mahindra Jeep, and LE Bullet Motorcycles. <P>I am against handing MP5s to the police forces unless the establish a Tactical Police Force inside each State police unit, i.e. individuals with proper training to handle that weapon, i don't really want to have a situation where PSI Kadam is forced to open fire on a violent crowd near Andheri station with MP5s.(recall that SRP incident where they opened fire on a crowd with Ishapores.. and killed of 15 people.. the opposition (Cong(I), Chaggnya, RPI, SPa etc..).. nearly tore the legislative assembly down.. no man no thanks.. want none of that..) <BR><p>[This message has been edited by sunil sainis (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Mahadev »

Why do our cops not have 12 bore shotguns? <P>The shells are cheap, can be reloaded (so practice is a lot less expensive) and can be converted to slug barrels for more precise work.<P>Rifles are expensive puppies in India, where local facilities and infrastructure suck.<P>All squad cars in the US have their armalites, pump, i belive.<P>Plus, if a decent local machine shop cuts off the barrel and chamfers and deburrs, then we have a sweet thing that is great for storming small rooms, houses.<P>Regards<BR>An inquiring mind likes to know
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Riza Zaman »

Other than the points GD pointed out, both the .303 Enfield and SLR have a notorious overkill, sometimes piercing through 3 persons.<P>IMHO we need a double tiered police force - the majority unarmed, and a smaller armed section, like in the lines of the DAP (Delhi Armed Police) or the CAP (Cal. Armed Pol.), except that they need to have better weapons, equipment, training, comms., etc.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by vram »

The crying need for Indian policemen aren't automatic weapons, but non-lethal weapons like stun grenades, bean-bag bullets, rubber bullets, pepper spray, cattle prods, tazers. Often, Indian cops shoot into crowds injuring and sometimes fatally killing people, because they don't have any other options. Killing of folks during riots/public demonstration only incites the mob and feeds the cycle of violence.<P>Indian cops need weapon that incapacitate threats without causing death or permanent damage. We already have the Rapid Action Force, these folks should be equipped with non-lethal weapons if they aren't yet.<P>In the US, most cops are armed with a handgun, no fancy mp-5/m-16 etc (sometimes a shotgun or a rifle). SWAT teams are a different matter altogether. They are basically armed and protected with whatever the US army uses. But SWAT teams are composed of the best cops and are given specialized training including sniper duties. And are deployed only in certain situations.<P>As someone has already pointed out, it is not feasible to arm every Indian cop with an automatic weapon. However, there is need for tactical teams that have access to not only the best hardware but also to a different level of training. And these teams should be deployed only when the need arises-- not for crowd management for a netas speech. <P>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sachin »

I feel that Indian Police equipments might be one of the worst equipments used. But slowly modernisation is catching up in many state police forces. <P>W.r.t my state police.<P>Vehicles: They still rely on Mahindra Jeeps. No special fittings or specialized engines. Depending on whether its used in a a rural, or town area it might have wireless sets, and a red light. There are still jeeps which do not have wireless sets !! For mass transportation of cops it is buses. They have grilled windows and provisions for storing lathis and helmets. Generally the cops do not go on chasing spree, they set up check posts on the road and check the vehicles.<P>Weapons: The main weapon of the constable is still the lathi (the short one). But a station has rifles for every constable. The rifles are .303 SMLE or Muskets. It is very rare the local police is forced to use guns. The S.Is and Inspectors have revolvers, which they generally do not carry.<P>One battalion of the Armed Police (S.A.P) have better weapons like Sten Guns, LMGs, smoke grenades etc. There is also a State Rapid Action Force, which have more advanced riot control weapons.<P>Communication: The police in majority of the state rely on the MELTRON wireless sets. They have the bare minimum features. Recently new and sleak Motorola equipments are also used. <P>Computerisation: Mainly used for centralising criminal history, and for passport verification. The computer wing of the police is essentially the DCRB (Dist. Crime Records Bureau).<P><A HREF="http://www.palakkadpolice.com" TARGET=_blank>More about local police units</A><P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR><p>[This message has been edited by sachin (edited 02-03-2001).]
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by darshand »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by George J:<BR><B><BR>Weapons: the earstwhile SOS (Spl Operation Squad) had AK series, even the new commandos have AK. Have not come across MP5's yet. <BR>[This message has been edited by George J (edited 01-03-2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have never seen anyone in the mumbai police department carry a AK. Lee enfields are quite common. The other weapons I have seen are 9mm Sten guns and the SLRs. The commando unit is also armed with the stens. (they have some AKs too but the stens form a bulk of the weapons.) <BR>
George J

Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by George J »

Darshand:<BR>There are a "satisfactory" number of AK series rifles in the Mumbai Police armoury. ABout not having seen them thats coz they are not used for daily activities and only for specialized activites where their use fits well. 1) SOS/ or the whatever the new commando unit is called 2)VVIP security: especially city police commissioners..i have personally seen it for A.S Samra et al.<BR>Heck there was even a photo of ACP (?) Salaskar and his team (the encounter ppl) showing off his personal AK.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Vikram »

Here's one more for our cops' Diwali wish list. This can prevent Hygam type and other such incidents when things get out of hand. It spoils the relation between the community and the law enforcement agencies. Would it be too hard to manufacture something like this indigenously ?<P><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science/03 ... Pentagon's latest weapon: a pain beam</a><p>[This message has been edited by Vikram (edited 02-03-2001).]
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by shim george »

Manpreet,<BR> Do not tell me there is a bank in that town. If the town got hold of your report then they should take all their money out of their bank. Are there any plans to modernize your father's police station such as give them training and give decent cars and at least have a telephone bill paid. Welll at least that did not go national. I remember reading one time in the New York Times that one Russian radar station had to close because they could not pay their electric bill. <BR> Accoring to all these posts you virtually have a horrible police force. And you got Maruti Gypsys. They deserve better than that. Possibly a cheap Mitsubishi Lancer as a squad car. Your radios suck. They do have radios in their cars do they?
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by shim george »

Another part of my plan is instead of using old Mahindras and use Tata Safaris (new and improved ones). <BR>Manpreet, Is it true there was an American presence in India during WW2? I never knew that all I knew was they were in Pacific Islands and Europe.<BR> Sachin,<BR> Is it true that they are using Motorlas now? I would be so happy. Do you know how much a copper makes in one year in India? You can tell me rupees and I will divide by 45.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Riza Zaman »

Shim, other than their fuel consumption, the Gypsys are an excellent vehicle. Mitsubhi Lancers are not suitable for Indian conditions, not even in the cities.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sachin »

Yes, I can vouch for the Motorala sets. Because recently my state went on a wireless spree. They had purchased lots of radios and all of them were from Motorola. Slowly the wireless culture is catching up with the state police. Allmost all Jeeps in town and city areas have wireless sets (some times 2, one the local town channel, and one the district wise channel).<P>In my state, atleast all Police Stations are there on the wireless grid. The advantage of Motorola is that, it can be used to identify the location of the person using it. With much cheaper equipment, you can identify the positions of all people, jeeps carrying these type of sets.<P>But a radio for every constable on the beat seems to be a farfetched idea. A constable's avg. salary is Rs 5000/- p.m (with all the TA. DA etc. etc.) A SI gets paid just less than 9,000/- p.m. But remember cops are supposed to be on 24 hours duty (i.e nothing like a fixed day off)<P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by shim george »

Sachin,<BR> Thank you for your reply. IS the pay salary for a day or a month? They do not happen to have video cameras on their cars like U.S police do? Do you trust your police at catching a criminal?
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sunil »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darshand:<BR><B> I have never seen anyone in the mumbai police department carry a AK. ..... The commando unit is also armed with the stens. (they have some AKs too but the stens form a bulk of the weapons.) </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now why do i remember that the Bombay police commandos that gave a display to the CM on Mah Day (1994-5) carried Colt Commando 5.56 (Carbine-M16)? <P>The SOS carries AKs of some kind, seen photos of them on the street. They look like something out of columbia. <P><BR>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Joeqp »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shim george:<BR><I>Is it true there was an American presence in India during WW2? I never knew that all I knew was they were in Pacific Islands and Europe.</I><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, there was a sizable US presence in India during WW2, especially in the North-East.<P>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Harry »

Have'nt seen much of the Mp-5s,Ak-56s etc in police hands.The more common sight would be the cane chairs Image,the WWII rifles and muskets.<P>I once saw this 'Indian police in real life action' programme and what they were holding seemed to be air-rifles(seriously).They would then proceed to surround a run down old place and find out that their prey had escaped looong ago.<P>Has anyone seen the Bangladesh riot police?They seem far better equipped and dressed than the Indian riot police. Image
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Riza Zaman »

There was a significant presence of US troops in India during WW2, including the USAF (flying the "hump"). Hindustan Building on Central Avenue in Calcutta used to be the US HQ. The Calcutta Police armory at Lalbazar HQ has a number of WW2 weapons in storage.<P>The police in the major metro cities are relatively well-equipped. I know for a fact that Delhi and Calcutta have Police commando teams that are trained for anti-terrorist ops, use bullet proof vests and carry AK-47/56s. <P>In Delhi, if u hang out at the right places near safdarjung rd. or north/south block, u'll get to see the SPG and NSG as well as DP commandos. For those who remember, at the height of militancy in Punjab, the Army had even loaned a couple of APCs to DP (I remember seeing them pull up in Bhogal and the Eros Cinema house after IG was assasinated).<P>Indian Police force varies greatly depending upon the area - training, equipment, attitude, officers, etc. They do weild a lot of power, if u have the right connections, u're golden.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Mahadev »

This is precisely why I was suggesting the shotgun as the effective low cost weapon. A pump action is reliable and sturdy.<P>In a way, I think all these terrorist strikes are good. They wake us up. Ours is a fri***g nation that thinks a 2.3% spending rate is excessive when surrounded by hostiles with 6% spending rates.<P>We have lots of people to expend, so eventually we will learn. The average policeman's status, pay, quarters is sickening.<P>We talk about weapons. The best weapon is morale. The average cop is nothing better than a house watchman in terms of how he is treated.<P>Regards
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sanjay »

Rakesh, nice you remember me.<P>Regarding the weapons, Indian police are plagued with block obsolescence.<P>The Indian police were never meant to have a near 100% arming rate, but that has now become necessary.<P>Traditionally, there was the unarmed civil police, then the District Armed Reserve - with 0.410 muskets ( a single shot, bolt-action shotgun ) - and the State Armed Police Battalions - with 0.303 rifles.<P>Now, there is a weapon sanctioned against each police post, though they aren't all at police stations - most being located in centralised police armouries throughout the State.<P>0.303 calibre weapons have become standard because they were being phased out of army service. In fact, in the 1970s, the Ordnance Factories offered to supply SLRs to the police and leave the 0.303s to the Home Guards, but this was rejected ( the gods alone know why ). 90,000 0.410 muskets continue in service.<P>Since then, some SLRs have been sanctioned to the State police on an ad hoc basis. Punjab took 60,000 SLRs to arm its entire force, while Bihar struggles with 5738, though 20,000 more are on order.<P>The SLRs are usually issued to the State Armed Police Battalions, though a few find their way into the Civil police.<P>There is no reason to replace the bulk of the 0.303 rifles since they offer superior performance to shotguns and have a substantial magazine capacity. The problem is that of spares and ageing ammunition.<P>It is possible that up to 20% of the 0.303 rifles are inoperable for need of repair.<P>LMGs are still largely 0.303 weapons, though a larger number of L4A4s are being found.<P>A number of 2 inch mortars are issued to certain armed police battalions.<P>Police commando units are still largely equipped with SLRs, though an increasing number of Kalashnikovs are being issued. UP has some 1200, while Bihar has 250. I suspect that many more are found in Punjab and J&K.<P>Imported sniper rifles are also found in very limited quantities. The Bureau of Police R&D has developed a new sniper rifle, but this is intended for the Central Paramilitary Forces.<P>Submachine guns on issue to the police are largely of the Sten and Sterling varieties.<P>The Stens are of the Mk.II and Mk.V varieties and have lasted for an incredibly long time and must be considered for retirement. Their replacement, the Sterling, is locally made and is quite popular - being in widespread army use. These weapons should not suffer from any spares shortages since production is current.<P>MP-5s are still on limited issue to some favoured police commando units - in Delhi they are more widely issued. <P>The MP-5 is much more accurate than most SMGs, but this is really only evident in the hands of specially trained personnel. BTW, Pak. adopted the MP-5 as the standard SMG - they had used Berretta M-38/49 weapons prior to this<P>Only a handful of 9mm pistols - largely license made FN-35s are in service. This is the army standard issue sidearm. There was an attempt to import 55,000 CZ-75 9mm pistols from Czechoslovakia in the late 1980s, but this fell through. Glock 17s are still commando weapons only - though the IAF has adopted it as standard for their pilots.<P>Revolvers still hold sway and here is where we may have a firearm historians dream. You can find Webley and Enfield 0.38s, Webley 0.455 and Ruger Titan 0.38 Specials.<P>I have heard of, though not seen, IOF 0.32 revolvers in police use. This refects a certain desperation for sidearms since, though the 0.32 revolver is a good and rugged pistol, its round is a bit underpowered for Indian police use ( fine for civilians though ). <P>12-gauge pump action weapons will soon make an appearance, but a special reduced charge 0.303 round has been developed for riot police. This is still only in limited service for reasons of economics - ridiculous reasons really.<P>Riot police units in Delhi seem to be increasingly well equipped. Modern body armour and riot guns are on issue. In the rest of India, things are not so good. The 10 RAF battalions of the CRPF are extremely well equipped - with lethal and non-lethal weapons.<P>A word of caution should be inserted at this point:<P>Spares and maintenence are the bane of the Indian police as inadequate funding and poor organization render weapons with even minor repairable defects non-operational for long periods.<P>Poor training - with respect to the civil police - is also a major problem. Weapons refresher courses are almost never done for the civil police. This makes any weapon in their hands suspect.<P>The same applies for vehicles. No matter how powerful it is, it's no good if it doesn't start or if it lacks tyres.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by shim george »

You were right Rakesh. Thank you Sanjay for your details. Sounds like the police have quite an arsenal.<BR> When you were talking about the Riot Police what kind of non-lethal weapons besides tear gas do they have? And in your opinion do you think that Indian Riot Police or Bangladeshi Riot Police are better equipped? If you have the New York TImes and the first page on national report shows a new kind of thing that deals with riot called a pain beam! <BR> Second is do you have any more detail on communications? Sachin gave me a great detail on communications on his state with tthe new Motorolas. Do you know about Communications in other states? Thank you very much once again<P>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sanjay »

Motorola provides a fair chunk of the modern communications systems.<BR>Some states still have an old US Navy system installed in 1942-45. Bihar and Orissa are particularly bad.<P>Hard to say which riot police are better equipped. A lot of modern riot equipment has been procured for the Greater Delhi area police and for the RAF. These include shock batons - 12 being provided in 1998 to the Noida police - polycarbonate shields, rubber bullets ( plastic actually ) and improved tear gas.<P>The RAF is pretty lavishly equipped, the Delhi riot police are well equipped and everywhere else is very variable.<P>The truth is that much of the police firing on crowds is due to unprepared detachments being faced with crowds.<P>Much of the police budget is being allocated to upgrade lethal weaponry and communications. Quite a bit is being invested in improved surveillance equipment and in vehicles.<P>Riot gear is not a very high priority item. Nonetheless, a fair ammount of modern equipment is being inducted.<P>Having said that, this equipment is going to relatively small specialised riot control units. The average policeman will have a padded overvest, maybe a helmet and, of course, a lathi.<P>As a point of interest, I think that some really odd weapons survive in police hands in India. In the 1980s, I saw a Sikh Havildar of the Punjab police carrying a Garand M1. In 1992-93, a havildar of the Delhi police was photographed with a Thompson M1. In 1994, the STF chasing Verappan was seen with at least one M1 Thompson and one M3 Submachine gun.<BR>In 1971, some members of the Special Frontier Force carried M-16A1 rifles, while others had M1 Garands and M1 and M2 carbines. One wonders if any of these were passed on to the police ? Anybody seen any of them ?
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sachin »

shim<BR>All figures mentioned by me as salaries are monthly salaries. I don't think any police force (city,town or rural) have video cameras installed on their jeeps. And I don't think it is required too.<P>With what ever knowledge I have gained about the US police, I feel that there a patrol car is manned by one police man or maximum two. There is every chance of the criminal trying to attack or speed off when a police man gets out of the car. Hence as evidence a camera is a good equipment.<P>In India, a police patrol jeep will have atleast 3-4 people (Driver, SI or H.C, constables at the back). And so there is ample evidence for courts (unless the entire lot gets killed). And AFAIK, high speed chases are quite less in India. The usual routine for police checks is that, the road is partially blocked and the cops just flag down all most all the vehicles going on the road. If you are a criminal, you might be arrested, but if you have violated any traffic rules, the SI will be glad to give you a court summons or spot fine. <P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Riza Zaman »

Agreed, the life of an Indian policeman/woman is very tough. Also, an officer's "tabadla" (transfer) is overnight, i.e. they have to leave overnight if they are transfered to another station. The maximum term of posting is for 3 years, I think.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Mahadev »

'Tough job' is an understatement. Allow me to repeat, a policeman (ie a street cop) is no better than a house watchman in India in terms of quality of life.<P>If we spent a good chunk of the money for improving conditions for the police, we would spend a lot less on defence via counter insurgency.<P>Remember, insurgency is only after small acts of protests, violence. Another point that nobody mentioned, police are the crucial link to the justice system. If the situation gets beyond the police, we admit pretty much that the situation is beyond the justice system.<P>And that leads to fairly heavy handed tactics by paramil and mil units, who arent trained for this to begin with.<P>It is the failure of the govt to deliver the benefits (both punishment and legal process) of the justice sytems that is symbolized by the underpaid, not respected, underequipped police.<P>Regards
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by shim george »

Dear Manpreet,<BR>I also think that the Police should get paid better. But to think we are better off than Russia. I do not know how much a policeman gets paid but there was this one report in which a Army Colonel gets paid $50 a month and there are some times where he does not get his money on time. <BR> To think if a colonel gets paid that much think of hoe much a police man in Russia makes. But I do not want to dissapoint Russia. I really admire how it stands up to the U.S. I wish things will turn out better for them. <BR> Sorry how overworked your father is.Just not easy when all the fame goes to the Movie Stars and cricket players. I do not think that the police are recognized for their work not in India nor here. When three firemen died trying to save homeless people that were said to be in there. They died and all the people cared about was the World Series game.<BR>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by neil »

Dr Sanjay<BR> i have also seen quite a few Indian Police officers equipped with the Walter PP/PPK, the Beretta M951, Colt Python(thats the one my uncle uses) <BR> So the question i have is that if there is no stantdard issue for the officers and no consistancy, where do they get their weapons from? does the govt give it to them or do they get it on thier own???
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Riza Zaman »

Neil, the govt. issues a sidearm to police officers, but many prefer to carry their own - its also an investment for police officers to buy their own guns since they get it subsidized (in many cases) and the ease of getting an other difficult-to-get gun license.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sanjay »

As far as sidearms are concerned, some police forces have embarked on a fairly bizarre procurement policy.<P>Mumbai, in particular, bought a number of Ruger, Titan Tiger and Colt revolvers. Officially, the standard revolver is the S&W 0.38 Police revolver. In reality, there is a truly bewildering variety.<P>It makes sense for a police officer to buy a sidearm - Riza is very accurate - because of the subsidized price.<P>Neil, if you don't mind my asking, did your uncle purchase his weapon or was it police issue - bearing in mind the fact that it could well have been bought by whatever police force to which he is attached ?<P>I didn't know about the Walther PP/PPKs and the Beretta M1951s. Odd choices. Any ideas of numbers in service ?<P>If I'm again not being too inquisitive, to what police force is your uncle attached ?<P>Riza, if I'm not being too forward, do you remember any of the types of the old US weapons held by the Calcutta Police HQ ?<P>I don't know if you've heard of the poor policeman in UP who was transfered 96 times<BR>in 24 years of service.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Riza Zaman »

Sanjay, the old US weapons were 6 Tommy guns with no mags and a M1.<P>In the entire collection, a lone M-16 really stood out.<P>If anyone in Calcutta is interested in finding out more, I can put him in touch with my uncle who was associated with the Arms Act dept. in Lalbazar.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sunil »

hi,<P>i recall reading somewhere (years ago) that some policemen in india buy foreign weapons off the market because they are unsatisfied with the regular issue. Also presidents award winners are often given a special grant to buy or are issued with a sidearm. incidently if i recall my guns correctly.. the colt python is a rather big gun.<P>i thought pretty hard about this.. but i can definetely recall that the bombay police commandos were equipped with colt M-4 carbines,<P>(http://www.colt.com/colt/html/a2f23_m4carbine4.html).<P> this was a few years ago but then they wore blue/black dungarees and caps instead of the camo and helmet that they do now(http://www.timesofindia.com/191000/19mbom6.htm).. . I also recall reading that the source of the weapons was a single consignment from an east european nation. (d*mn my memory is weak this is all a long time ago.. 7-8 years ago).(i know it doesn't make sense to have a consignment of M-4s to come from an east european country.. but that is what the news items said).<P>here is an interesting set of articles on the mumbai police during crime prevention week last year. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.mumbaipolice.com/menu.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mumbaipolice.com/menu.htm</A> <P>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sanjay »

LNS,<P>I suspect that Riza's info. on that M-16 in Calcutta is indicative of something.<P>The M-16s were procured in the 1960s for the Indian Army. In fact, General Jacob had suggested procuring the M-16 as standard.<P>The SFF was sent a few and I presume that when the guns were phased out, at least some ended up in police service.<P>Riza, the Thompsons could be quite effectively employed in Delhi where at least some remain in service. I wonder if they are serviceable ?<P>As a point of trivia, some of the M1 Garands were sold on the open market and, as usual, Bihari goondas bought a few. <P>This discussion has brought out the fact that the Indian police services are not that badly armed - if all the weapons work. <P>Training and serviceability are the key issues to be addressed.<P>Pay and conditions and treatment of the jawans in Khaki is another matter and should get some urgent attention.<P>In 1996, the Home Guards in Delhi were allegedly not paid for 6 months. It was incredible that they still showed up for duty.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sanjay (edited 05-03-2001).]
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by neil »

Dr Sanjay<BR> I am not sure how my uncle got the gun issued or he got it himself, but as far as i know he got it issued, as far as what area he was assigned to, it was in Gujrat but thats the extent of what i can say. Sorry if you want more info i can email you. <BR> Ok i understand that the Govt issues a lot of different type of weapons. So now the question i have is about ammo where do we get soo many different types of ammo from, 9mm, 7.62,5.56, .303, .38??? <BR> One thing i can say is that a lot of times the police use the weapons that they confiscate from the criminals, you can see a lot of officers using weapons that you wont see anywhere else. <BR> If you guys ever notice the weapons used by the security at Bombay international Airport, they all usually use the motorola radios, Ak-47 or the seterling and the officers usually use the Glock 17. They also have bullet proof vest. The reason i mention that is because, they would be the first one on the scene if there was a hijacking.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sachin »

This discussion has brought out many facets on the police man's life in India. I was detailed with police men for election duties. <BR>The constable on duty with me had not seen his home for the past 2 days (when he reported for duty along with me). Prior to the day of election, he was on the routine surveilance duty to make sure that the Known Depradators (KDs) are all leading a obedient life. Then he (along with me) was assigned to a polling booth for the security at the booth. The election was the next day, so we were to be on duty until next day evening. The constable then expected to go home after that work is done.<P>But no, at 5:30pm (the polling gets over at 6pm)the Inspector comes with his party and hands over to a .303 rifle and 10 rounds to the constable. His duty has changed. He is now supposed to escort the ballot boxes to the local town hall, report to the security officer there, and get back to his Police Station. This is to ensure that the rifle and the rounds are deposited back. <P>After that he is supposed to proceed to the town Railway Station, for mufti (plain clothes duty). This is on account of a major temple festival, and the police suspect the railway station can become a place where pickpockets and prostitutes can have a field day.<P>I am sure the police man would have been out for nearly a week, that too on active duty. This is how the Indian Police works. Image<P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by shim george »

I f you think the U.S police are treated bad......<BR> Sounds like a long day Sachin.Got to get a bill to the Parliament.And to tell you the good thing is that I hear no signs of complaining. So far to me it sounds like they do what they are told to do.
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Raj Malhotra »

Dr SBM if I may ask, it seems that OFB recently issued a series of self laudatory advertisements in which a (9mm?) pistol was shown.<BR>Is it the FN-35 and how contemporary it is?<P>Also does DRDO want to introduce a New 9mm SMG?<BR>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sanjay »

Raj,<P>The FN-35 it is.<BR>It's still a good weapon - standard issue for the British Army as well.<BR>It is, in fact, one of the finest military service pistols ever made.<BR>It has apparently been somewhat modified to permit double-action firing as well.<BR>Don't grudge the OFB their little glory.<P>As far as a new SMG is concerned, the answer is no.<BR>The successor to the Sterling is the INSAS carbine which is a significantly shortened INSAS rifle firing the standard 5.56mm ammunition. I think they've been handed over for final troop acceptance trials. Mind you, I haven't heard anything much for a while.<P>Neil,<BR>Remember that police ammunition expenditure is considerably lower than that of the military. This simplifies supply problems.<BR>Only a relatively small percentage of the police carry pistols of any kind - about 10% more or less.<BR>Furthermore, each state operates its own police armouries, so they have to cope with any ammunition problems.<BR>We must also note that the stocks of 0.303 ammunition are huge. Some production of this calibre took place until recently.<BR>India does produce a 7.65mm round for its commercial automatic pistol. I think it should be compatible with the Walther PP variants.<BR>I also suspect that some 0.38 ammo. is still produced.<BR>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Raj Malhotra »

thanx Dr SBM<P>once in a while people with knowledge justify the existance of the forum otherwise it is endless speculation and one liners (Me also a guilty party)<P>
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Re: What kind of equipment do the Indian police have?

Post by Sachin »

jay<BR>Considering that foot wears also form part of the uniform, no harm in discussing them too Image<P>As per the regulations no police force generally wears chappals or sandals. W.r.t my state force. The rule is that police men of the Armed Police generally wear military style boots (black leather) and Khakhi socks. Once you get posted in the local police normal black shoes are enough. I have never seen cops in any state wearing puttees any more. They were part of the uniform when the constables and HCs used to wear khakhi shorts (instead of trousers/pants). May be in training camps they still use it.<P>BTW, the cops before the 1980s had very distinctive head gear (which later was replaced by Peak caps or Gandhi caps).<P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>
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