Indian Naval Discussion

Singha
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Jun 2012 10:12

the Mig35 does not have a folding wing. perhaps they want to test its TVC utility for ski jump takeoff to get some data on the side for own use in pakfa-naval.
its landing gear and structure not being rated for naval use I guess they will just do a few flights and leave.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Jun 2012 10:28

Mig-35 does not have TVC but Russian took the Mig-29K and demonstrated it for two seater Mig-35 may be they are referring to that.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Jun 2012 10:29

Russia, India to Hold First Launch of BrahMos Submarine-Based Missile

Submarine-based version of the BrahMos Russian-Indian missile will be launched for the first time in Oct-Nov, 2012, the director of BrahMos Aerospace Sivathanu Pillai told ARMS-TASS at the 2-nd international engineering technology forum.

"We're going to hold the first launch of the submarine-adapted missile version by underwater testing platform in October or November", Dr. Pillai said.

According to him, the coming launch will be an important stage in the BrahMos program development because after that test Indian Navy will decide whether to arm India's prospective non-nuclear submarines with these missiles.

Representative of Rubin Central Design Bureau earlier told ITAR-TASS that Russian designers were ready to offer Indian Navy non-nuclear submarine Amur-1650 armed either with Club or BrahMos missile systems.

"So far, Indian partners have not brought up an issue of BrahMos integration into Amur-1650 submarine put up for Indian tender under the 75I prospective submarine program", said Andrei Baranov, deputy director general of Rubin bureau for foreign economic activity.

As for him, "the Amur-1650 submarine project is currently armed with Club attack missile system, well-known in Indian Navy and launched by horizontal torpedo tubes. But if Indian party wants the sub to be equipped with vertically-launched BrahMos attack missile system, Rubin bureau would amend the project", Baranov explained.

"BrahMos can be integrated into Amur-1650 as an additional compartment with vertical launch tubes", pointed out the design bureau's director.

"Amur and BrahMos are pretty compatible; we had worked on the sub's architecture in this regard. So, if Indian partners want to have the BrahMos-equipped submarine, that would strengthen chance of Rosoboronexport in the India's program 75I tender", emphasized Baranov.

Rosoboronexport will put up prospective non-nuclear submarine Amur-1650 powered by air-independent plant for Indian tender providing procurement and license production of 6 non-nuclear submarines.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sankum » 29 Jun 2012 14:32

Image

Austin
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Jun 2012 14:45

^^ Thats Kuznetsov

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sankum » 29 Jun 2012 15:04

HA HA HA..... but it is beautiful.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Jun 2012 15:09

looks psed. anyway a carrier without a bustling airwing and deck ops is like a ghost ship.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby amit » 29 Jun 2012 16:03

Singha wrote:looks psed. anyway a carrier without a bustling airwing and deck ops is like a ghost ship.


It's heavily photoshopped and pretty poorly too. See the reflection of the ship in the water in the foreground. That's IMO a dead givaway. No wake for a ship this size? Even if it's standing still, the drift would cause some turbulence. OTOH, from the middle of the ship onwards towards the front there's regular sea waves.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Jun 2012 16:07

a fitting set for a bermuda triangle horror movie. usually abandoned sailing ships or cruise ships are depicted.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 30 Jun 2012 22:09


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 30 Jun 2012 23:32

Vikie's got a bird
Image
Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SaiK » 01 Jul 2012 08:23

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19229
I can't understand this at all... why would IN keep their important docs on DMZs?

Are we having a poor network setup?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby pravula » 01 Jul 2012 09:14

SaiK wrote:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=19229
I can't understand this at all... why would IN keep their important docs on DMZs?

Are we having a poor network setup?


from the article:
The Navy — and the other armed forces — stores sensitive data only in standalone computers that are not connected to the Internet


The virus apparently created a hidden folder and collected specific files and documents based on certain ‘key words’ that it has been programmed to identify.

The documents remained hidden on the pen drives until they were put in computers that were connected to the Internet, after which the bug quietly sent the files to specific IP addresses.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Jul 2012 11:02

Seems like an insider jobs or who has access to those stand alone computers to insert the pendrive and then at a later date extract sensitive data from it.

The hacking part is the secondary aspect but primarily this looks like spy inside navys own premise.

The other possibility is Navy officer using same pendrive to access networked and stand alone computers ..although these standalone computers are not suppose to have usb port but it seems it had one and the hackers which managed to inject the virus on networked system the usb pen drive transmitted it from network to standalone machine , the virus collected all sensitive data and the next time it just retransmitted to pen drive and then to networked system.

Most certainly a serious procedural lapses by officers handling these systems and then how did they have USB port on such stand alone computers .This constant attempt by Chinese Hackers successful or not over a period of many years shows we are not up to the mark in managing Information Security ... first PMO , now Naval institutions and who knows where , hopefully the IB folks will sensitise important institution civil and defense to better manage information.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23061 » 01 Jul 2012 11:53

Heh, I am pretty sure our Desi boys will return the favor in Shanghai.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby AbhiJ » 01 Jul 2012 17:01

INS Kamorta

Image

Naval auxiliaries under construction include two 110-meter, 4,000 ton training ships from another private shipyard, ABG, as well as six 50-meter catamaran survey ships from a financially troubled government owned yard, Alcock Ashdown. As such, deliveries of these ships keep getting pushed to the right. The survey ships are to be equipped with Kongsberg Hugin autonomous unmanned vehicles (AUV).


Other key projects include two deep submergence rescue vessels (DSRV) as well as two large diving support vessels to carry these DSRV; one 86-meter survey/training ship; and several large survey ships, as well as an unspecified number of 175-meter long,, 25,000 ton fleet support vessels. All these projects are at an RfI stage, which means that it will be some time before tenders are issued and contracts are awarded.


An RfP (request for proposal) for at least two special operations vessels – midget submarines, really – is expected to be released shortly. These are to be fitted with two Swimmer Delivery Vehicles and two torpedoes and be able to operate at depths of up to 100 meters. Italy’s Fincantieri has offered a design. Larsen and Toubro, which has been instrumental in fabricating the hull sections of the Indian SSBNs, is also offering a design in partnership with Russia’s Rubin Design Bureau, while other shipyards are seeking technical partners for this project.


This count ignores smaller vessels such as the eighty 13-meter-long force protection craft that are being procured from Solas Marine in Sri Lanka. :?:

Can the Indian Navy Get the New Warships It Wants, When It Wants Them?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 01 Jul 2012 17:13

^^ Thanks for the link.

P-17A:

Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Jul 2012 17:18

the P17A Cg looks neat...a meaty looking smart-L type radar on the rear mast and perhaps MF-STAR v2 on the main....we are finally going for the bulky top heavy american stealh look.

http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-c ... pt-1-w.jpg

the Italy FREMM ship does not have the rear radar and mounts the big EMPAR in front, so its not a direct copy of the design by Fincantieri
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... eCweZrFwtA

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby andy B » 01 Jul 2012 19:33

GD the radar mast placements is more reminiscent of type 45 daring class me thinks.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Jul 2012 19:37

Looks neat , the navy still loves the RBU-6000 and Garpun Bal.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SaiK » 01 Jul 2012 19:44

pravula wrote:The virus apparently created a hidden folder and collected specific files and documents based on certain ‘key words’ that it has been programmed to identify.
..
The documents remained hidden on the pen drives until they were put in computers that were connected to the Internet, after which the bug quietly sent the files to specific IP addresses.

again... there are basic core technologies called encryption and decryption...for all classified documents, in addition to multi-factor authentication. all gov/mil pen drives or storage devices should be in the secured access framework.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Jul 2012 21:04

yes the daring class look is closest among existing types http://www.royal-navy.org/warships19/wp ... -19-02.jpg

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 01 Jul 2012 21:12

IMO it looks like modified variant of Formidable class FFG.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rupak » 01 Jul 2012 21:16

Just to be clear about copies of FREMM, etc. The P-17A is intend to be an evolutionary design based on the P-17, and as such uses the same hull form.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Jul 2012 21:27

thats not what we were told! we were told IN wanted to make a clean break with evolution and catch up with the latest EU kit and was prepared to spend upto a 700 mil $ per ship (and this some 5 yrs ago so pls adjust the cost)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_22906 » 01 Jul 2012 22:07

^^
Nitpick question, so take it FWIW... Why call it P17A when its supposed to be a clean break?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby srai » 01 Jul 2012 22:52

Aditya G wrote:^^ Thanks for the link.

P-17A:

Image


The design looks quite stealthy. It clearly is an evolutionary upgrade to the P-17 hull w/ "European" (Lafayette/FREMM/Type-45) design influence for top mast.

Compare the hull with INS Shivalik:
Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Jul 2012 10:23

well! the hull and superstructure shape looks same as P17 except the foredeck being smoother and masts changing. but shape alone is not the decider for a break or continuation.
will it carry the same weapons - obviously not - MFstar, a better 3D radar, barak8 , new helicopters , hopefully the 127mm oto supergun.......

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 02 Jul 2012 13:22

Any news on rail gun research in India. they seems to have hundreds of Km range and Unkil seems to very intereted in them.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Jul 2012 13:52

what kind of use case do you forsee, other than blasting Devastator decepticon off the giza pyramid? :)
if the tech can be adapted to EM cats I am all for it though.

Whether he's formed from six, seven, or even nine Constructicons, Devastator is a giant among giants. He is in fact so huge that his body simply cannot support itself when carrying his weight upright, forcing him to lumber on all fours.

Devastator is a tormented being, his very formation wracking his component Constructicons with pain and stressing them to the breaking point both physically and mentally. The imperfect fusion process produces a mind that's very much less than the sum of its parts; rage and pain are all he knows, pushing aside whatever intelligence he might possess. Devastator relies on almost pure instinct in battle.

Devastator is named after Cybertron's unwithstandable and terrifyingly destructive Devastator Winds, due to his intimidating strength. Devastator can also create powerful gravity wells by generating an artificial black hole with his Vortex Grinder, located in his mouth.Nearby objects are drawn into his gaping mouth to be crushed.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby kit » 02 Jul 2012 16:02

Singha wrote:what kind of use case do you forsee, other than blasting Devastator decepticon off the giza pyramid? :)
if the tech can be adapted to EM cats I am all for it though.

Whether he's formed from six, seven, or even nine Constructicons, Devastator is a giant among giants. He is in fact so huge that his body simply cannot support itself when carrying his weight upright, forcing him to lumber on all fours.

Devastator is a tormented being, his very formation wracking his component Constructicons with pain and stressing them to the breaking point both physically and mentally. The imperfect fusion process produces a mind that's very much less than the sum of its parts; rage and pain are all he knows, pushing aside whatever intelligence he might possess. Devastator relies on almost pure instinct in battle.

Devastator is named after Cybertron's unwithstandable and terrifyingly destructive Devastator Winds, due to his intimidating strength. Devastator can also create powerful gravity wells by generating an artificial black hole with his Vortex Grinder, located in his mouth.Nearby objects are drawn into his gaping mouth to be crushed.


Thank you for the 'transformers' gyan :) .. :D

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Jul 2012 16:37

sorry about the OT, but I do love such 'flawed' characters.....esp the rage and pain part. might have been some shreds of goodness in him before the dark tide took his soul.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby kit » 02 Jul 2012 18:17

Singha wrote:sorry about the OT, but I do love such 'flawed' characters.....esp the rage and pain part. might have been some shreds of goodness in him before the dark tide took his soul.


OT again ., but., Kinda surprised how the transformers mythology is written , it could have parallels in hindu mythology as well.'Chaar' ..! how the good permiates evil but not influence it etc

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rupak » 02 Jul 2012 18:27

Singha
You are correct that the kit on P17A will be quite a bit more modern than what one sees on the Shivaliks, but the platform itself will be a design evolution. For more, I defer to Maz.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Jul 2012 18:49

kit, I will post some material nukkad a bit later.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Nick_S » 02 Jul 2012 19:56

Singha wrote:the Mig35 does not have a folding wing. perhaps they want to test its TVC utility for ski jump takeoff to get some data on the side for own use in pakfa-naval.
its landing gear and structure not being rated for naval use I guess they will just do a few flights and leave.


No sir. Due to the earlier crash of a Mig-29k prototype, the Mig-35 was converted to Mig-29k standard. Both Mig-29k and Mig-35 were based on the Mig-29M1/M2 structure so the changes required were apparently manageable.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Viv S » 02 Jul 2012 22:26

With regard to the RBU-6000, two questions for those in the know-


1. Given that its range is limited (4500m) especially vis-a-vis the heavy torpedos (which probably equip hostile submarines), how useful is in the modern context? Or is more for point defence against incoming torpedo?

2. With the growing emphasis on reducing the vessel's RCS, why is it that the RBU-6000 hasn't been given a 'stealth' shroud? A simple hexagonal composite casing wouldn't be too expensive.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby maz » 03 Jul 2012 04:23

To the best of my limited knowledge, the P17A is to be slightly stretched evolution of the P17. Naturally, the design will feature a much more advanced combat systems suite as well as a revised topside arrangement to further reduce RCS. I think details will emerge slowly so patience is of the essence.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Karan M » 03 Jul 2012 05:12

I remember Kockums is a technology partner for the Indian Navy for further RCS reduction.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2009/12/p ... suing.html

This would be used in multiple programs presumably, with composite towers etc having the electronics enclosed.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby negi » 03 Jul 2012 06:06

Viv S wrote:With regard to the RBU-6000, two questions for those in the know-


1. Given that its range is limited (4500m) especially vis-a-vis the heavy torpedos (which probably equip hostile submarines), how useful is in the modern context? Or is more for point defence against incoming torpedo?

Yes it is primarily a point defence weapon against incoming torpedoes and enemy submarines in near vicinity. Both Shivalik and Talwar class however are equipped with RPK-8 system which is latest in the family of RBU-6000 system and capable of firing 90R projectile which has homing capability.


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