Indian Naval Discussion

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 22 Mar 2013 11:50

X-posted in essence: The missile-K 15 has been officially announced as having passed its final tests,therefore the missile is ready for induction with the sub (ATV).Regarding BMos,theoretically,it could be fired from the same silos,but unlikely,as the ATV/K-15 is part of our strategic deterrence,top priority against the PRC.Asof now BMos has no sub platform for its use.The IN has to explore the fastest way in which the missile can be inducted on either old or new subs.Older Kilos modified to fire the Klub series,of which 5 have been modified thus far,leave us with another 4-5 which could be modified as a trials sub.Why we did not do this earlier beats me.Alternatively,we have to order a new sub -which can only be a Russian one to accommodate BMos. None of the European subs,old or new can do so.The options are therefore limited to further upgraded Kilos or the newer Amur/Lada class which has a design for launching BMos/Yakhont missiles.

There are reports in the Russian press that two Sierra-1 SSGNs ,approx 8000t,slightly smaller than the Akulas,are being returned to service after modernisation.

On March 5, 2013 the Russian news agency Izvestiya reported that the Russian Navy has decided to return Hull 1 Karp and Hull 2 Kostroma to service. The necessary upgrade work is expected to take 3 years and will be carried out at Severodvinsk.[4][5]


These subs have titanium hulls,giving them extraordinary diving dept,beyond that of any anti-sub torpedo.There is also one improved Akula 1 hull supposedly 60% complete which may be the second Akula that we plan to lease/are negotiating the same.They also have two sets of torpedo tubes,the larger ones for firing of missiles like the Novator SS-N-21 Sampson,which we wanted but were unable to acquire thanks to the MTCR.Specs here:

1,700 kg (3,750 lb)
Length 809 cm (26 ft 7 in)
Diameter 51 cm (20.1 in)
Warhead Nuclear, single warhead
Warhead weight 200 kt[2]
Engine Solid-propellant rocket booster + R-95-300 turbofan
Wingspan 310 cm (122.0 in)
Operational
range 3,000 km (1,600 nmi)[1]
Speed 720 km/h (447.4 mph)
Guidance
system Sprut inertial + TERCOM
Launch
platform TEL; Akula class submarine, Sierra II, Victor III, Yankee Notch, Yaseen


BMos dimensions from Wik appear slightly larger
Length 8.4 m
Diameter 0.6 m


Nevertheless,since Yakhont/BMos was designed as a multi-use supersonic cruise missile for the Russian sub force too, any sub with the larger tubes should be able to launch the missile.Hopefully,the second Akula can carry both sets of tubes as is normally done.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 22 Mar 2013 13:33

^^^ Correct on deployment but who says for testing they can't use Ari. For non believers here is the link where m's are being loaded to Ari (Cannot be sure it is Ari,cousins or rusi cousins) but from what chaiwala says it is Ari

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-JJN8WG6s8d8/UPUoK ... 25255D.jpg

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 22 Mar 2013 14:53

Pontoon for Vikra
Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Mar 2013 15:03

Well done GSL, hopw no one sees this pic and says, oh China are building A/c why are we building Pontoons?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Nick_S » 22 Mar 2013 20:05

Where will Vikra be stationed / based at ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Mar 2013 21:12

Karwar.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby gnair » 23 Mar 2013 06:50

Low cost dispensable missile launch platform for the future, submarine replenishment, off-shore assault platform....just various possibilities.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gerard » 23 Mar 2013 17:41

INS Sudarshini returns from historic odyssey on March 25
Cdr. Sundar wrote on his blogpost on March 12, as Sudarshini was bound for Port Blair: “The Andaman Sea is exceptionally calm during this time of the year. Fantastic sunset makes the entire sea turn crimson. Favourable cyclonic currents are pushing us towards Port Blair. Not a wisp of cloud spoils the beauty of a clear blue sky. This quiet, calm-water sailing suddenly reminds me of the rough patch that we encountered in [the] South China Sea. After the inhospitable screaming winds and hissing giant waves that we have gone through, this leg of sailing feels heavenly. No wonder, for thousands of years, sea has captured the imaginations of man – its flooding and ebbing tides, gentle breeze and gale winds, crests and troughs of waves, cloudy days and surreal sunsets, catastrophic typhoons on one hand and unfathomable quantity of resources in the form of oils, gas, food and minerals to selflessly serve generations to come, on the other (sic). The sea is a phenomenon full of symbolic struggles of life. It is an education every single day. Throughout this ASEAN Expedition, it has happened to us exactly that way,” reads the post.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Sparks » 25 Mar 2013 12:42

Navy issues a RFI for 5 Fleet Support Ships under Buy Global category!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 25 Mar 2013 12:53

we have 4 tankers I believe now (aditya, jyothi and the 2 new ones from fincantieri).
support ships were the next in line for inevitable beefing up.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 25 Mar 2013 13:37

This indicates an enlarged role for the IN beyond the IOR,most probably into the Indo-China Sea and the Far east.Good!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby James B » 25 Mar 2013 20:33

Mig-29K landing on Vikaramaditya


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Sanku » 25 Mar 2013 21:28

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/in ... 37761.html

India planning to tie up with Russia in naval ship-building field


The Defence Ministry is planning to have a tie-up between the Kerala-based National Institute of Research and Development in Defence Shipbuilding (NIRDESH) and Russian Krylov Institute for working in this direction, officials told PTI here.

The Russian institute, set up in 1890s, has been working in this field for a very long time and can help NIRDESH to augment its capabilities, they said.

NIRDESH was launched on January 4, 2011 by Defence Minister A K Antony to help in developing a robust defence industrial base by providing technology support and promote ancillary industry participation in the defence shipbuilding sector.


Lets hope the tie up materializes soon.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 25 Mar 2013 22:39

Get a move on the P-17A (FREMM structure hopefully) P-28A's and P-15Bs.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Vipul » 26 Mar 2013 01:50

India readies hi-tech naval base to keep eye on China.

Slowly but steadily, India's new futuristic naval base is beginning to take concrete shape on the eastern seaboard. The strategic base, with an eye firmly on China, will eventually even have underground pens or bunkers to protect nuclear submarines both from spy satellites and enemy air attacks.

Sources said a flurry of discussions and meetings have been held in the PMO and defence ministry over the last couple of months to firm up "expansion plans'' for a base located near Rambilli called "Project Varsha" on the Andhra coast — just about 50 km from the Eastern Naval Command headquarters at Visakhapatnam — over the coming decade.

Though it's still very early days for Project Varsha, some bill it as an answer to China's massive underground nuclear submarine base at Yalong on the southernmost tip of Hainan Island, which houses its new Shang-class SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines) and the Jin-class SSBNs (nuclear-powered submarines with long-range nuclear missiles).

Although land acquisitions and incremental development work on the base under the secretive project kicked off a few years ago, it is set to take off in a major way with the construction of tunnels, jetties, depots, workshops and accommodation. "Further land acquisitions for the sprawling base to be spread over 20 sq km are now underway, with long-term budget allocations also being planned,'' said a source.

The endeavour dovetails into the overall policy to bolster force-levels on the eastern seaboard, with new warships, aircraft and spy drones as well as forward-operating (FOBs) and operational turnaround (OTR) bases, to counter China's expanding footprint in the entire Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

Naval assets to protect India's long coastline and keep watch over the crucial trade corridors in the Indian Ocean are essential to Indian interests. The strategic value of force projection beyond the Andaman islands is seen in terms of deterrence as well given the aggressive military Chinese expansion. India's own SSBN programme is also poised to turn the corner soon with sea trials of the 6,000-tonne INS Arihant slated to begin off Visakhapatnam. INS Arihant and its three "follow-on'' SSBNs, which will complete India's elusive nuclear weapon triad since they will be armed with the `K' series of submarine-launched ballistic missiles, as well as other frontline warships will be housed at the new base.

The Navy plans to operate at least three SSBNs and six SSNs in the long run for effective nuclear deterrence. Moreover, after inducting the 8,140-tonne INS Chakra submarine on a 10-year lease from Russia last year, India is now negotiating the lease of another such nuclear-powered Akula-II class submarine, as was earlier reported by TOI.

Project Varsha's ambitious scale in the years ahead will rival the expansive "Project Seabird'' under which the Karwar naval base has come up in coastal Karnataka to give India both strategic depth and operational flexibility on the western seaboard against Pakistan. While Karwar will decongest the over-crowded Mumbai port, the new base will do the same for Vizag on the east.

Karwar can currently base 11 major warships and 10 yard-craft after completion of its Phase-I at a cost of Rs 2,629 crore. The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) had last year approved Rs 13,000 crore for its expansion under Phase-IIA to ensure it can berth 32 major warships and submarines by 2018-19.

Karwar will be the home base for aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov being refitted in Russia for $2.33 billion, as well as the six French Scorpene submarines being built at Mazagon Docks for Rs 23,562 crore.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 26 Mar 2013 02:23

Not enough. In needs 5 SSBN's assuming 12 VLS tubes (>2 m) and 10 SSN's. But if they can get 3 and 6 by 2025 that should be fine.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Mar 2013 06:27

3 + 6 would still put in the league of what the UK/France can afford to field long term. not super but a start.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby srai » 26 Mar 2013 08:41

^^^

3 SSBN would mean 1 (or 2) deployed at all times. Of the 6 SSNs, 3 would be reserved for deployment with the SSBNs for their protection. That will leave just 2 or 3 for other tasks.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 26 Mar 2013 09:13

Decommissioned Submarine Arrives at Chennai, to be Made Maritime Heritage Museum - N.Anand, The Hindu
The State government’s ambitious plan of setting a maritime heritage museum in Mamallapuram is set to become a reality with the arrival of decommissioned submarine INS Vagli in Chennai on Monday morning.

Said to be the first of its kind in the country, the submarine museum is being set up with twin purpose – to attract tourists and make youth to take a career in maritime. The State government has sanctioned Rs.10 crore for transporting the submarine from Visakhapatnam to Mamallapuram.

INS Vagli was towed from Visakhapatnam Naval base on March 22 with the intention of beaching it at Mamallapuram on a specially erecred platform, where it will remain as a centrepiece of maritime heritage museum.

Earlier, Tamil Nadu Tourism Development Corporation (TTDC) officials were interested to set up the project on the Marina Beach, but it was given up as they found it difficult to obtain Coastal Regulatory Zone (CRZ) clearance.

Hence, it was decided to house it on 30 acres of land abutting the beach near the Shore Temple in Mamallapuram.

The submarine reached Chennai Port on Monday at 9 a.m. and it will remain there till it gets CRZ clearance. It will be handed over to the State government during April second week.

As per the proposal TTDC will implement the first of its kind project on behalf of the State government by converting the de-commissioned submarine into a Naval museum and setting up the maritime heritage museum with facilities such as maritime heritage, marine technology, food courts, audio-visual studio, souvenir shops and aquarium on Build, Own, Operate and Transfer model.

During 2011, the State government requested the Defence Ministry to move INS Vela for the proposed museum. However, the Defence Ministry offered INS Vagli instead of INS Vela. After servicing for 36 years, INS Vagli (ex-Vela class submarine) was decommissioned during December 2010.

Talking to The Hindu, a TTDC official said “We are thankful to the Indian Navy for moving the submarine to Chennai well before the onset of monsoon. This has given us sufficient lead time to complete other formalities. To get the CRZ clearance we are conducting the Environment Impact Assessment study. The work is in progress and we hope it will be completed soon.”

“We are in the process of appointing a consultant to move the submarine from Chennai to Mamallapuram, who will convert it into a museum with special entrance for the visitors along with other facilities,” he said.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Mar 2013 09:15

with only 1-2 SSBN on active patrol you'd need only 1 SSN for escort.

the rest 5 , 1 could be in training cycle, 1 in dock for refit and 3 available for combat duty.

nothing to shake the earth with, but adequate as a minimum deterrence.

for all out offensive in the east asian seas, nothing short of a 15-20 SSN figure is the minimum useful number. a fleet of Blackjacks would be more cost effective for that :twisted:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Misraji » 26 Mar 2013 09:25

Is there any link suggesting that SSNs escort SSBN?
I don't think thats the case, but I cannot find any link supporting either case.

--Ashish

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 26 Mar 2013 11:20

there is a possibility that Arihant class will be converted to carry 12 cruise missile & act as an SSN/SSGN not SSBN

the follow on submarines with 12-16 ballistic missiles could be our base SSBN's.
so ultimately we could have 4 SSN/SSGN/SSBN in time frame of 2018-2020 excluding 2 -Akulas(1 Arihant on sea trial 3 under construction )

Arihant is a 6000 tons sub & can effectively act as SSN for future use.The specific tech & details could be provided by the guru's for conversion of Arihant for SSN roles

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Vipul » 26 Mar 2013 19:23

Third Anti Submarine Warfare Corvette launched at GRSE.

Amidst efforts being made to increase indigenisation of defence equipment, Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral D K Joshi today said the global economic slowdown has opened opportunities for India's defence ship-building yards.Stating that the recession has lead to shutdown of many companies and the surplus capacities were being shifted to emerging economies like India, he said "We need to exploit this to our advantage. The ultimate test would be the ability to export our product."

He was speaking at the launch of the third Anti Submarine Warfare Corvette, a frontline warship built by Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers for the Indian Navy.Admiral Joshi said that out of 42 orders given by the navy, 40 were being built indigenously in India by public or private sector enterprises.

"The ship being launched today has yet another technological landmark, being the first in the country built with composite infrastructure," he said.GRSE is constructing four ships under project P28. This was the third one, designed indigenously by the directorate of naval design.

"Today Indian Navy and Coast Guard have huge requirement of ships and the same are required to be produced without any time and cost overrun. Timely delivery of quality ships is the need of the hour. Modern shipbuilding technology and tools must be adopted to achieve this objective," Joshi said.He said the shipyard must also have an effective mechanism for competition from newly developed private shipyards which would try to bag orders and must be accepted as a challenge.

The shipyards have to concentrate on implementation of strong quality assurance practices, development of reliable and proven vendors and most importantly training of its human resources to the lowest rank, Joshi said.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_20036 » 26 Mar 2013 19:25

Third Anti Submarine warfare corvette for Indian Navy ” INS Kiltan ” launched in Kolkata


Image

The third Anti Submarine Warfare (ASW) Corvette for the Indian Navy (IN) designed under Project-28 (P-28)by the Navy’s Directorate of Naval Design, being built by one of India’s leading shipbuilders, Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd.(GRSE), was launched here on Tuesday.
Named after an island – Kiltan – in the Lakshwadeep archipelago of India, the ASW Corvette was launched by Chitra Joshi from GRSE mainyard in the presence of Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral DK Joshi, Chairman and Managing Director, GRSE, Rear Admiral (Retd) A K Verma and other officials from the Ministry of Defence, Armed Forces and West Bengal administration.
With nearly 90 percent indigenisation content aimed to be achieved in the manufacturing of the ship, the efforts made by Indian Navyand Defence Shipyards towards the national goal of indigenisation and self-reliance got a major impetus with this latest ASW Corvette launch.
The Indian Navy also got closer to acquiring the ASW platforms that willstealthily seek and destroy lurking enemy submarines as the first GRSE built ASW Corvette, Kamorta, is expected to be delivered to IN this year. The remaining three ships, according to GRSE, will be delivered by 2016. The fourth ASW Corvette will be launched in 2014, GRSE CMD Rear Admiral Verma stated.
Lauding efforts of GRSE in detail designing of the ship, the Navy Chief singled out its technological landmark, as being the first ship in the country built with a composite superstructure. The superstructure made of carbon fibre composite material has been successfully integrated with the main hull of the ship. Besides reducing the top weight, it will provide improved stealth features and reduce life cycle maintenance costs.
The ship’s hull form is highly efficient with excellent sea-keeping and manoeuvrability characteristics having an overall length of 109 metres. The ship can cut through the sea at a very high speed of 25 Knots. Hull of the ship is built with warship grade high tensile indigenous steel.
The ship’s advanced stealth features will make her less susceptible to detection and help in effective deployment of soft kill measures. Theships will be fitted with complete indigenous state-of-the-art weapons and sensors, including a medium range gun, torpedo tube launchers, rocket launchers and close-in weaponsystem.
These ships are also equipped with a Bow mounted Sonar and are capable of deploying a helicopter, adding considerable punch to the ship’s anti-submarine capability. These ships also feature an advanced Integrated Platform Management System for controlling and co-ordinating the propulsion, auxiliary and power generation equipment.
The new P-28 ASW corvettes also mark many firsts including introduction of the ‘rail-less helo traversing system’ to handle a helicopter on board the ship, foldablehangar door, use of indigenous DMR 249A steel and carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP) superstructure integrated with the steel hull of the ship.


http://idrw.org/?p=20117

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 26 Mar 2013 21:26

If P-28a doesn't carry any missiles other than Barak-1, why is there a delay in Inducting the Kamorta?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Indranil » 26 Mar 2013 21:42

They had to make the entire super structure out of composites, which was not the original plan.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 26 Mar 2013 21:55

Wait so they changes the plans for Kamorta half way through? I thought that visby was bought as consultant for later ones starting from Kiltan. Well lets hope the ship is worth the wait.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby jamwal » 26 Mar 2013 22:03

Gagan sahib, are you serious about Russian submarine or is it just an IED ? :o

BTW, it's quite unlikely that new missiles are being tested right off submarines. Russians lost a submarine a decade or so back when a SLBM test failed.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2013 07:06

due to lack of modular construction, our ships on floating out stage are far less complete internally than say a typical american or japanese (or maybe even cheen) warship. if you note the completion times there will usually be a big time from floating to induction due to fitting out.

in modular construction , most of the internal machinery, pipes, wires are in place in the sections and the precise design and manufacturing ensures they match nicely together when the sections are joined at the dock and hull welded together. that way, but the time it enters the water the ship is nearly done except perhaps delicate gear like radars , antennas and weapon that are fitted in after floating out.

the british built the QE2 ship in six section. you can see one section being moved here
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/10/men-lo ... t-carrier/

I am sure fincantieri built the cavour the same way, is the ADS-1 also following the same route?

as for our other ships, I believe only the P17 was made that way.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby srai » 27 Mar 2013 08:19

Misraji wrote:Is there any link suggesting that SSNs escort SSBN?
I don't think thats the case, but I cannot find any link supporting either case.

--Ashish


Well, I doubt given the IN only fielding 3 SSBNs in the foreseeable future that they would leave these strategic deterrent by themselves. Often, they will be tailed by other foreign SSNs as soon as they leave harbor (or at least try to find them while at sea) and would need protection from friendly SSNs if they are to survive.

Navy 'will not have enough submarines to protect UK’
...
The report said decisions by the Strategic Defence and Security Review had led to further cost overruns of £500 million in the defence budget. The decision to delay the batch of seven Astute boats will cost millions extra and leave the Navy without enough boats to defend Britain, maintain the security of the Falkland Islands or protect the Vanguard class submarines which carry the Trident nuclear deterrent as well as carrying out other secret tasks, the report said.
...



No British submarines to patrol Falkland Islands
...
Hunter-killer submarines are needed to carry out vital duties, including protecting Britain’s Trident missile-carrying Vanguard submarines which patrol the North Atlantic.
...

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2013 10:56

I think the SSNs are told to sanitize a certain ssbn operating area continuously and they do. they do not perform close protection SPG type duty on SSBN - the SSBNs themselves are very quiet, move slowly to mask noise, and have heavy torpedoes and full set of sensors for close protection....

kind of like leopards tasked to sniff around and perform scout/flank/skirmish protection on a herd of elephants.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 27 Mar 2013 12:22

Any update on weaponry for the P-28s?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 27 Mar 2013 12:56

The primary role for Indian SSN is to protect a CBG since it would be the most vital asset and most vulnerable from submarine in case of War which would need protection , since we plan to operate 2 CBG in East and West we need 2 SSN atleast to protect them.

SSBN are silent and in patrol areas they are slow and less detectable so they can defend them self , they might need some sort of protection when they move to patrol areas , ofcourse as it was found during a rare collision between Vanguard and Le Tromp SSBN for UK and French they all end up in patrol areas and just sit there at bottom or patrol at very low speed , low enough to remain undetectable to each other passive sonars till they collide.

Since we know from Russian Ambassdor statement that Arihant acoustic silencing will be as good as Typhoon class ( Russian Akula ) its quite good by any benchmark in the acoustically diffcult Indian Ocean and Arabian sea to evade any detection even by most advanced sensors by western countries with 4th gen SSN. We just need experience to operate SSBN at long patrol duration and the logictics involved with crew and command and control stuff and that can only come with time for the rest Arihant looks quite good

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 27 Mar 2013 14:55

Singha wrote:I am sure fincantieri built the cavour the same way, is the ADS-1 also following the same route?

as for our other ships, I believe only the P17 was made that way.


Talwars were also built in sections.

Google Maps has a nice photo of ADS-1 in the process of movement into the drydock.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=9.955758 ... 4&t=h&z=17

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 27 Mar 2013 15:15

krishna_krishna wrote:Chaiwala says, it was from arihant's multipurpose launcher. Furthermore he says there are pictures of missile being loaded into arihant. Will try to find out link
Gagan wrote:Not possible. period
jamwal wrote:Gagan sahib, are you serious about Russian submarine or is it just an IED ? :o BTW, it's quite unlikely that new missiles are being tested right off submarines. Russians lost a submarine a decade or so back when a SLBM test failed.

Prima Facie it can - Shourya diameter 0.74m length 10m Brahmos diameter 0.67m length 8.9m

Arihant is neither SSN nor SSBN nor SSGN in the American/Russian mould that most BR Members try to force-fit the Indian program into.

It is the first multirole submarine in the world, carrying IRBM, SRBM, LACM & AShM in addition to torpedoes. The number of silos (4 large missiles or 12 small missiles) has been deliberately kept low to ensure the submarine with its available powerplant is sufficiently maneuverable unlike unmaneuverable SSBNs or high power consuming maneuverable SSBNs.

Infact there is a new line of thinking in the corridors of power. Build more Arihant in BOTH public and private shipyards. Volumes will provide economies of scale. The cost difference with expensive European submarines isnt much. Russian conventional submarines are no longer in favour since their capabilities have been outstripped by European submarines.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 27 Mar 2013 18:36

i think your discription of a multirole is correct sir. India can not make SSN/SSBN in numbers that are required for any specilised class. At lest not in near future. Further we do not need Big missiles etc as we do not have to hit all around the world. We need to hit Pakiland and lizzard holes. For that the present size and missles reported to have been carried by Arihant is more than sufficient. Let us take for example an Los Angles class in Arabiand SSN or indian see can carry missles can do the same kind of job as SSBN.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 27 Mar 2013 19:35

Are there any good video's of old Yakhont launch?
For me Brahmos with its top cap from day one looked compatible for a sub launch. May be the cap is protecting the air inlet but it's just my assumption.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby merlin » 27 Mar 2013 19:36

tsarkar wrote:
krishna_krishna wrote:Chaiwala says, it was from arihant's multipurpose launcher. Furthermore he says there are pictures of missile being loaded into arihant. Will try to find out link
Gagan wrote:Not possible. period
jamwal wrote:Gagan sahib, are you serious about Russian submarine or is it just an IED ? :o BTW, it's quite unlikely that new missiles are being tested right off submarines. Russians lost a submarine a decade or so back when a SLBM test failed.

Prima Facie it can - Shourya diameter 0.74m length 10m Brahmos diameter 0.67m length 8.9m

Arihant is neither SSN nor SSBN nor SSGN in the American/Russian mould that most BR Members try to force-fit the Indian program into.

It is the first multirole submarine in the world, carrying IRBM, SRBM, LACM & AShM in addition to torpedoes. The number of silos (4 large missiles or 12 small missiles) has been deliberately kept low to ensure the submarine with its available powerplant is sufficiently maneuverable unlike unmaneuverable SSBNs or high power consuming maneuverable SSBNs.

Infact there is a new line of thinking in the corridors of power. Build more Arihant in BOTH public and private shipyards. Volumes will provide economies of scale. The cost difference with expensive European submarines isnt much. Russian conventional submarines are no longer in favour since their capabilities have been outstripped by European submarines.


That means S-3, S-4 and S-4 are also sized like Arihant? Also it means no new Kilos/Amurs/Ladas. Therefore only more Scorpenes and Arihant class boats.

Where does that leave the P75I?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Misraji » 27 Mar 2013 22:16

srai wrote:No British submarines to patrol Falkland Islands
...
Hunter-killer submarines are needed to carry out vital duties, including protecting Britain’s Trident missile-carrying Vanguard submarines which patrol the North Atlantic.
...

Oh. Awesome. Thanks, srai ...
That provides some evidence that I was looking for.

Singha wrote:I think the SSNs are told to sanitize a certain ssbn operating area continuously and they do. they do not perform close protection SPG type duty on SSBN - the SSBNs themselves are very quiet, move slowly to mask noise, and have heavy torpedoes and full set of sensors for close protection....
kind of like leopards tasked to sniff around and perform scout/flank/skirmish protection on a herd of elephants.

Fair enough. While not performing close-protection, an SSN could be in the general vicinity of an SSBN sanitizing the area.

In our case, I would have assumed Arihant and sisters to dive deep in Bay of Bengal, while the SSNs would hunt in South China Seas.
Protection for Arihant would be from ships and land-based planes, not SSNs. No need to venture out into unknown areas.

Or given the multi-role nature of Arihant, 1 could be on SSBN duty in Bay-of-Bengal, 1 on SSGN(land-attack using cruise missiles) duty in South China sea, 2 in rest/refitting.

I am finding it difficult to find detailed material/book on submarine operations, tactics etc.
Any suggestions?

--Ashish

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby jamwal » 27 Mar 2013 22:49

It's not just the Paki-Cheeni twins that we need to hit. Their allies should always be within our reach at all times. Countries like their Arab four-fathers, Turkey, North Korea, Iran, Brits, Yankees which have history and reasons for harming India in order to serve their own selfish interests should never feel safe from us.
Maintaining a good boy image should not be a reason for curtailing the reach of our missiles. It has not helped us in any way in the past and will amount to nothing in future either. If above mentioned group has no reasons to harm us, our missiles should have no reasons to harm them either. US, UK can hit us any time they want, why should we deliberately stop short of returning the favour ? Some folks only understand the language of dandaa. Simple only


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