^^^In this specific case (the MARCOS officer's wife), it seems the lady and the officer were filing cases against each other even before they got married. Something is black in the lentils. So let's not tar and feather the Navy as an institution before the allegations are proven. She has chosen to accuse the officer and the establishment at INS Kalinga - the former may well be true but that automatically doesn't prove the latter be true also. Ofcourse the latter makes for better headlines.
And what happens in US forces is their business - it has no connection with what happens in Indian armed forces. Indian armed forces will represent the trends prevalent in Indian society, not the US society. Also, why do I see a marked tendency on BRF to justify something happening in Indian forces as fact by saying "oh XYZ happens in US forces too" as if US forces are the absolute measure for ground truth?
Indian Naval Discussion
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Nice to know your point. Hope something good come out of it.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
You really think Outlook printed that article w/o bothering to double-check with her multiple times?ranji wrote:It is difficult to be consistent. She is not a lawyer. And if you are against an establishment, it is nearly impossible. US forces have shown an increase in sexual assault cases. It happens everywhere.
Dress code asking women to wear short-skirts and backless dresses? Seriously? I'm sure she would have saved the invite which comes with such directives about dress code for women...and I'm serious here. There is a written invite which goes out of official parties.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
We have known inaccurate articles from all sources.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 295942.cms
India's submarine INS Sindhurakshak received help from Egyptian Navy when it encountered extreme bad weather and rough sea on its way back home after mid-life up-gradation in Russia.
The Egyptian Navy towed the submarine to Port Said along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea in March, sources said.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
The IN is not the only navy with ambitions far beyond its shores!
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/8258715.html
Seaplanes of North Sea Fleet in training at sea
Aviation regiment of South Sea Fleet in flight training
Naval landing ships can perform diverse military tasks
Military training base improves teaching mode
14th Chinese naval escort taskforce arrives in Pakistan
Chinese navy's Su-30MKK2 fighters in attack training
...and our very own IOR gambit of Oz!
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ean-region
Antony to visit Australia to boost military ties
PTI May 26, 2013,
(AK Antony's visit to Australia…)
NEW DELHI: To forge stronger military ties, defence minister AK Antony will be on a four-day visit to Australia where he is expected to discuss cooperation between the navies of the two countries.
In his maiden visit to Australia beginning June 3, Antony would be accompanied by a high-level delegation, including new Defence Secretary Radha Krishna Mathur.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/8258715.html
Check the link for pics of the foll:13th Chinese naval escort taskforce returns in triumph
(China Military Online)
08:40, May 27, 2013
BEIJING, May 24, (ChinaMil) -- The 13th Chinese escort taskforce under the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), which had successfully completed escort missions in the Gulf of Aden and the waters off the Somalia coast as well as tasks of visiting five countries in Europe and Africa, smoothly returned to a military port in Zhanjiang of south China's Guangdong province on the morning of the May 23.
During the welcominge ceremony held by the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy, Ding Yiping, deputy commander of the PLA Navy, of the PLA expressed sincere greetings and warm congratulations on behalf of Wu Shengli, commander of the PLA Navy, and Liu Xiaojiang, political commissar of the PLA Navy, to all the officers and men of the taskforce for their successful completion of the missions.
Made up of the "Huangshan" and "Hengyang" guided-missile frigates and the "Qinghai Lake" comprehensive supply ship, the 13th naval escort taskforce departed from Zhanjiang on November 9, 2012 to carry out the escort missions in the Gulf of Aden and the waters off the Somalia coast with the total voyage reaching 99,245 nautical miles and safely escorting 166 Chinese and foreign vessels safely escorted in 37 missions. After completing the escort mission, the taskforce embarked on a voyage of goodwill visits to Malta, Algeria, Morocco, Portugal, and France successively.
Jiang Weilie, commander of the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy, Wang Dengping, political commissar of the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy, and others attended the welcome ceremony.
Seaplanes of North Sea Fleet in training at sea
Aviation regiment of South Sea Fleet in flight training
Naval landing ships can perform diverse military tasks
Military training base improves teaching mode
14th Chinese naval escort taskforce arrives in Pakistan
Chinese navy's Su-30MKK2 fighters in attack training
...and our very own IOR gambit of Oz!
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ean-region
Antony to visit Australia to boost military ties
PTI May 26, 2013,
(AK Antony's visit to Australia…)
NEW DELHI: To forge stronger military ties, defence minister AK Antony will be on a four-day visit to Australia where he is expected to discuss cooperation between the navies of the two countries.
In his maiden visit to Australia beginning June 3, Antony would be accompanied by a high-level delegation, including new Defence Secretary Radha Krishna Mathur.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Can someone please explain what would have caused Submarine to be towed... is it not capable of handling rough seas \ bad weather ?Ganesh_S wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 295942.cms
India's submarine INS Sindhurakshak received help from Egyptian Navy when it encountered extreme bad weather and rough sea on its way back home after mid-life up-gradation in Russia.
The Egyptian Navy towed the submarine to Port Said along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea in March, sources said.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
THis news report and making it into a big issue about IN has a chinese hand.Raja Bose wrote: something is really rotten in IN officer's circle.
Proper investigation should be carried out get to root of this issue.
Perhaps there is something rotten but this particular lady's account seems to have a lot of inconsistencies.
Chinese have been putting money into media
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
I think when they pass through these coast they dont travel submerged but remain surfaced some kind of international rule ...so if they encounter bad weather they are better off being towed to port then storm it out.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Under the UN's Convention on Law of the Sea,the foll .rules apply:
Territorial waters
Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage, in that naval vessels are allowed to maintain postures that would be illegal in territorial waters. "Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Indo-Nippon defence ties seem to be on the upswing with the apparent successful trip of MMS to Tokyo.Naval cooperation seems to be the thrust,with the possibility of Japanese Shin-Meiwa amphibians being acquired,though there are other competitors from Canada and Russia. The visit,coming so soon after the dust had yet to settle from the PRC premier,"Leaky-Qing",who had disgraced himself in advance by the arrogance and impudence of Chinese troops who intruded deep into Indian territory,and the content of the visit,could be diplomatically regarded as a carrot up Beijing's nether end,and rightly so!
Even without being drawn into a formal US-led military alliance ,as we've seen only too well what US expeditionary imperialistic warmongering has done in devastating nations that have been the unhappy victims of its military intervention.In wars lasting longer than even the Vietnam and Korean wars,a swathe of destruction from the grim reaper has swept across the Middle east from Afghanistan to Syria and even as far afield as Libya! India has enough on its hands to get caught up with tangential conflicts instead of keeping our powder dry to deter our core threats.
There is no harm whatsoever in establishing bilateral defence relationships first before we dream,or have a nightmare of playing deputy to Marshal Sam in the Asia-Pacific region.
Even without being drawn into a formal US-led military alliance ,as we've seen only too well what US expeditionary imperialistic warmongering has done in devastating nations that have been the unhappy victims of its military intervention.In wars lasting longer than even the Vietnam and Korean wars,a swathe of destruction from the grim reaper has swept across the Middle east from Afghanistan to Syria and even as far afield as Libya! India has enough on its hands to get caught up with tangential conflicts instead of keeping our powder dry to deter our core threats.
There is no harm whatsoever in establishing bilateral defence relationships first before we dream,or have a nightmare of playing deputy to Marshal Sam in the Asia-Pacific region.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
INS Arihant reactor to be made critical next week
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 336893.cms
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 336893.cms
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
well wet dreams are ok.. but who is gonna share EMALS tech with us? Russian's don't have it and US wont share it unless we are willing for annual inspection of our carriers to them.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Being a wet blanket is also ok. The US does not have a problem sharing the tech or the presentation by GA would not have been held. We have allowed US inspection of INS Jalashwa. I am sure there are strings attached to the P8I as well which we have agreed to.Sid wrote:well wet dreams are ok.. but who is gonna share EMALS tech with us? Russian's don't have it and US wont share it unless we are willing for annual inspection of our carriers to them.
Bottomline, inducting a new build CATOBAR carrier in the year 2025+ without the major advantages that EMALs provides will be regressive.
Wet dreams of the N-propulsion kind are more scary as that will make make the IAC-2 hostage to DRDO's steep learning curve.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
what the..
US eyes India’s Port Blair as new drone base in event of war against China
NEW DELHI: Port Blair might not be anything more than a vacation spot for most Indians, but a new Pentagon- commissioned report seeks to turn it into something radically different: a base for American drones.
In possibly the first reference to the use of Indian territory for the US military in recent times, the paper, put together by the RAND Corporation, suggests that the capital of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands could be ideally suited as a base for American drones in the event of an offensive against China.
The paper, titled ‘Overseas Basing of US Military Forces’, was commissioned by the Pentagon on the instructions of the US Congress and looks into the presence of the American military at various bases and locations across the globe.
As part of this assessment, the researchers at RAND looked into large- scale operations against potential adversaries, including Iran, North Korea and China.
Under this scenario, the paper suggests significant changes in the Indo-Pacific region. “The Navy and the Marine Corps would also increase the number of combat forces that are stationed on US territories in the Pacific, in particular in Hawaii and Guam, while seeking to retain more marines in Okinawa than currently agreed,” the paper says.
It adds that the US should seek to increase the presence of troops at bases in Australia. It then goes on to refers to the use of Indian territory to look over the strategically important Straits of Malacca, which carries about a quarter of all oil that is transported.
“The Navy would strive to station a detachment of broad area maritime surveillance UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles or drones) at Port Blair airport in the Andaman Islands, to increase surveillance over the Strait of Malacca,” the paper said.
James Brown, a Military Fellow at the Lowy Institute’s International Security Program and Project Coordinator of the MacArthur Foundation Asia Security Project, points out that this is a possibly unprecedented suggestion – particularly because of its China focus.
“While there is no doubt that the Andaman Islands are strategic real estate, this is the first time I have seen anyone float the thought bubble that the US might be able to operate maritime surveillance assets from Indian territory,” Brown wrote in a post examining the paper.
“At first glance it seems incredibly unlikely, but the US and Indian navies have been steadily increasing their cooperation since 2006… In the event of Chinese aggression, it is not inconceivable that India might permit the US to operate maritime surveillance platforms from its Andaman Islands territory.”
AN IDEAL HUB FOR DRONES
A new Pentagon- commissioned report, put together by the RAND Corporation, suggests that Port Blair could be ideally suited as a base for American drones in the event of an offensive against China
The paper was commissioned by the Pentagon on the instructions of the US Congress and looks into the presence of the American military at various bases and locations across the globe
As part of this assessment, the researchers at RAND looked into large- scale operations against potential adversaries, including Iran, North Korea and China
The paper said the Navy would strive to station a detachment of broad area maritime surveillance UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles or drones) at Port Blair airport to increase surveillance over the Strait of Malacca, which carries about a quarter of all oil that is transported.
http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/12885
US eyes India’s Port Blair as new drone base in event of war against China
NEW DELHI: Port Blair might not be anything more than a vacation spot for most Indians, but a new Pentagon- commissioned report seeks to turn it into something radically different: a base for American drones.
In possibly the first reference to the use of Indian territory for the US military in recent times, the paper, put together by the RAND Corporation, suggests that the capital of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands could be ideally suited as a base for American drones in the event of an offensive against China.
The paper, titled ‘Overseas Basing of US Military Forces’, was commissioned by the Pentagon on the instructions of the US Congress and looks into the presence of the American military at various bases and locations across the globe.
As part of this assessment, the researchers at RAND looked into large- scale operations against potential adversaries, including Iran, North Korea and China.
Under this scenario, the paper suggests significant changes in the Indo-Pacific region. “The Navy and the Marine Corps would also increase the number of combat forces that are stationed on US territories in the Pacific, in particular in Hawaii and Guam, while seeking to retain more marines in Okinawa than currently agreed,” the paper says.
It adds that the US should seek to increase the presence of troops at bases in Australia. It then goes on to refers to the use of Indian territory to look over the strategically important Straits of Malacca, which carries about a quarter of all oil that is transported.
“The Navy would strive to station a detachment of broad area maritime surveillance UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles or drones) at Port Blair airport in the Andaman Islands, to increase surveillance over the Strait of Malacca,” the paper said.
James Brown, a Military Fellow at the Lowy Institute’s International Security Program and Project Coordinator of the MacArthur Foundation Asia Security Project, points out that this is a possibly unprecedented suggestion – particularly because of its China focus.
“While there is no doubt that the Andaman Islands are strategic real estate, this is the first time I have seen anyone float the thought bubble that the US might be able to operate maritime surveillance assets from Indian territory,” Brown wrote in a post examining the paper.
“At first glance it seems incredibly unlikely, but the US and Indian navies have been steadily increasing their cooperation since 2006… In the event of Chinese aggression, it is not inconceivable that India might permit the US to operate maritime surveillance platforms from its Andaman Islands territory.”
AN IDEAL HUB FOR DRONES
A new Pentagon- commissioned report, put together by the RAND Corporation, suggests that Port Blair could be ideally suited as a base for American drones in the event of an offensive against China
The paper was commissioned by the Pentagon on the instructions of the US Congress and looks into the presence of the American military at various bases and locations across the globe
As part of this assessment, the researchers at RAND looked into large- scale operations against potential adversaries, including Iran, North Korea and China
The paper said the Navy would strive to station a detachment of broad area maritime surveillance UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles or drones) at Port Blair airport to increase surveillance over the Strait of Malacca, which carries about a quarter of all oil that is transported.
http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/12885
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
^^ All is possible in an event of War ( if india is also impacted); but IMHO i don't see war happening between US - China in near \ medium future
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Recently an IN sub in stormy conditions in a sea channel was towed to safety by Egyptian Navy, does that imply that diesel electric subs that need to surface frequently with AIP or not will never carry missiles (say TT launched) with nuke warheads?
In TSPs case they intend to fit nuke tipped cruise missiles on conventional subs as their second strike, wonder what kind of safety would that entail.
Anyways, for those who spout the convenient-for-US logic, in one of the Indo-US Naval exercises, US folks were commenting that they could see INS Viraat miles away because of the hydrocarbon emissions.
Btw, how does one efficiently power the EMALS without N-propulsion?
In TSPs case they intend to fit nuke tipped cruise missiles on conventional subs as their second strike, wonder what kind of safety would that entail.
Anyways, for those who spout the convenient-for-US logic, in one of the Indo-US Naval exercises, US folks were commenting that they could see INS Viraat miles away because of the hydrocarbon emissions.
Btw, how does one efficiently power the EMALS without N-propulsion?
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
US is not going to share the tech and if we use this in our IAC, I have a doubt as to what if US could switch off this remotely or even degrade its performance. We would have a aircraft carrier that would be unable to launch aircrafts! Pretty risky, IMHO!
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
No Indian govt. would risk allowing a foreign power however friendly to use Indian soil as a military base,no matter how close.Even after signing the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Peace and Friendship,which allowed us to win the war in '71,as we had the diplomatic and military backing of the USSR,Mrs.G. never offered the Soviets the use of an Indian port as a base.What may happen is that we may purchase sophisticated UAVs from the US or Israel and share some of the info from it.The US however has a string of agreements with nations in the ASEAN and Pacific region,from Japan,SoKo,Oz,Singapore,etc.,including the Phillipines-were plans are afoot to see the reentry of US warships,etc. in the future.It already has its own footprint in massive capability at Diego Garcia.Malaysiaa and Indonesia are also very suspicious of Chinese ambitions,not to mention Vietnam! In fact, there is a whole string of pearls against Chinese expansionism already in place.
In order to bypass its weaknesses in the IOR region,China is investing heavily in Pak,with Gwadar as the key base from which military and civilian interests will be furthered.The link through Pak all the way into POK/Aksai Chin,of a rail,road and petro-pipeline is one route.The other is via Burmese ports,but in recent times,China has been wary of the Burmese junta cosying up to the west in return for removal of eco-sanctions and foreign investment.In truth,only Pak is China's "all-weather friend"!
India has a great opportunity to further expand its strategic footprint across the IOR and the Asia-Pacific region with agreements with friendly nations,"tous azimuts",as coined by French Gen.Ailleret.As a pattern for serious study,the French Gaullist philiosophy is most interesting,as it resembles in many ways the threads of Indian strategic thought even though we have not yet "nailed our colours to the mast".France under De Gaulle believed that it was a "carrier of universal values",having a unique identity,a national destiny,a country with a mission to share its values with other nations;values best expressed in the famous French slogan of the Revolution,"Liberte,Egalite,Fraternite",which was meant for all mankind.
India,which has likewise spread its religions and values all across Asia and the world,peacefully,is so uniquely placed to take our destiny into our own hands,as a global leader imparting of the essential values and virtues for the survial of mankind,such as those expressed so beautifully by Swami Vivekananda,that captured the imagination of the world a century ago.There is no need for India to be a servile lackey of unbridled militarism.
http://www.cicerofoundation.org/pdf/van ... ullism.pdf
"Chirca's Gaullism".
Why France has become the driving force behind an autonomous European Defence Policy.
By Marcel H. Van Herpen.
The Four pillars of Gaullism were :
1.An independent "national" Industrial policy.
2.An Independent foreign policy.
3.An independent national nuclear deterrent.
4.An independent European Defence.
It was the last that De Gaulle failed to achieve,nevertheless,events in Europe are slowly veering towards that event in the future,as disillusionment with the US's military expansionism is very high in EU nations.
Therefore,we have to take the initiative and become the "leader" of an IOR security and not become a member of a group or alliance led by a superpower which will endanger our sovereignity and fundamental interests.
PS:EMALS/CATS are prohibitively expensive,and as rightly said above,will not be shared openly wiht the IN.
In order to bypass its weaknesses in the IOR region,China is investing heavily in Pak,with Gwadar as the key base from which military and civilian interests will be furthered.The link through Pak all the way into POK/Aksai Chin,of a rail,road and petro-pipeline is one route.The other is via Burmese ports,but in recent times,China has been wary of the Burmese junta cosying up to the west in return for removal of eco-sanctions and foreign investment.In truth,only Pak is China's "all-weather friend"!
India has a great opportunity to further expand its strategic footprint across the IOR and the Asia-Pacific region with agreements with friendly nations,"tous azimuts",as coined by French Gen.Ailleret.As a pattern for serious study,the French Gaullist philiosophy is most interesting,as it resembles in many ways the threads of Indian strategic thought even though we have not yet "nailed our colours to the mast".France under De Gaulle believed that it was a "carrier of universal values",having a unique identity,a national destiny,a country with a mission to share its values with other nations;values best expressed in the famous French slogan of the Revolution,"Liberte,Egalite,Fraternite",which was meant for all mankind.
India,which has likewise spread its religions and values all across Asia and the world,peacefully,is so uniquely placed to take our destiny into our own hands,as a global leader imparting of the essential values and virtues for the survial of mankind,such as those expressed so beautifully by Swami Vivekananda,that captured the imagination of the world a century ago.There is no need for India to be a servile lackey of unbridled militarism.
http://www.cicerofoundation.org/pdf/van ... ullism.pdf
"Chirca's Gaullism".
Why France has become the driving force behind an autonomous European Defence Policy.
By Marcel H. Van Herpen.
The Four pillars of Gaullism were :
1.An independent "national" Industrial policy.
2.An Independent foreign policy.
3.An independent national nuclear deterrent.
4.An independent European Defence.
It was the last that De Gaulle failed to achieve,nevertheless,events in Europe are slowly veering towards that event in the future,as disillusionment with the US's military expansionism is very high in EU nations.
Therefore,we have to take the initiative and become the "leader" of an IOR security and not become a member of a group or alliance led by a superpower which will endanger our sovereignity and fundamental interests.
PS:EMALS/CATS are prohibitively expensive,and as rightly said above,will not be shared openly wiht the IN.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
vinod wrote:US is not going to share the tech and if we use this in our IAC, I have a doubt as to what if US could switch off this remotely or even degrade its performance. We would have a aircraft carrier that would be unable to launch aircrafts! Pretty risky, IMHO!
Did you read the article? Or my post following it? A vendor like GA does not go on roadshows promising the earth or moon before getting the U.S. govt's greenlight. Is there some "doomsday" device that the U.S. could plant - sure?. Should we pull the plug on those GE powered LCAs as well then?
BTW, they could do a Stuxnet too if we had our "own" system - ask the Iranians.
With DRDO systems not being available usually till hell freezes over, Russians not delivering on time or worse not supporting and the U.S. having off the shelf stuff but an ace up their sleeve, there is a risk spectrum. As the trend in our weapons acquisition shows of late we are increasingly leaning towards the last, and learning to manage those risks.
N-propulsion would be better overall not just specific to EMALS. But between counting on DRDO to design and deliver a N-plant for a new build being built by a PSU shipyard, and banking on GA to optimize its EMALS system for a conventionally powered carrier, the risk matrix in terms of unknowns is weighed in favour of the latter.vasu raya wrote: Btw, how does one efficiently power the EMALS without N-propulsion?
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
"Basing" does not have to be of the Shamsi, Diego Garcia, or Manama kind.Philip wrote:No Indian govt. would risk allowing a foreign power however friendly to use Indian soil as a military base,no matter how close.
The US having access to Indian soil for taking on China is old hat, as lucidly documented here.
http://www.amazon.com/Eye-at-Top-World/dp/B002IKLMQQ
To quote the American balladeer Bob Dylan "The Times They are a Changin'" and pure national self interest and geostrategic inevitability will see certain developments happen. Whether India chooses to stay non-aligned, a poodle like the Brits, or a quasi-ally with the US against China is a matter of choices.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
The point was do we really need EMALS or do we need a definite capability of launching aircrafts without any fear of sabotage. Of course, there will be always ways to counter any threat/risks. But do we need to make it any easier for US?RajitO wrote:vinod wrote: US is not going to share the tech and if we use this in our IAC, I have a doubt as to what if US could switch off this remotely or even degrade its performance. We would have a aircraft carrier that would be unable to launch aircrafts! Pretty risky, IMHO!
Did you read the article? Or my post following it? A vendor like GA does not go on roadshows promising the earth or moon before getting the U.S. govt's greenlight. Is there some "doomsday" device that the U.S. could plant - sure?. Should we pull the plug on those GE powered LCAs as well then?
BTW, they could do a Stuxnet too if we had our "own" system - ask the Iranians.
With DRDO systems not being available usually till hell freezes over, Russians not delivering on time or worse not supporting and the U.S. having off the shelf stuff but an ace up their sleeve, there is a risk spectrum. As the trend in our weapons acquisition shows of late we are increasingly leaning towards the last, and learning to manage those risks.
N-propulsion would be better overall not just specific to EMALS. But between counting on DRDO to design and deliver a N-plant for a new build being built by a PSU shipyard, and banking on GA to optimize its EMALS system for a conventionally powered carrier, the risk matrix in terms of unknowns is weighed in favour of the latter.vasu raya wrote: Btw, how does one efficiently power the EMALS without N-propulsion?
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
What makes you think DRDO is going to build and design a nuclear power plant ?? Did they "build and design" the ATV reactor ? Indian PWRs have been around since the 70s. Obviously, marine propulsion was not the design objective but even here they have some understanding of how to proceed.RajitO wrote: But between counting on DRDO to design and deliver a N-plant for a new build being built by a PSU shipyard......
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Well, do we really need a 65k carrier, CATOBAR, UCAVs etc. etc. You clearly have a hypothesis which involves the US and India facing off against each other at some time in the near future. All the Yankee stuff we keep buying must have you awake at night.vinod wrote:
The point was do we really need EMALS or do we need a definite capability of launching aircrafts without any fear of sabotage. Of course, there will be always ways to counter any threat/risks. But do we need to make it any easier for US?
And let's keep building on that understanding for the good of our SSBN/SSN fleet by focusing on improving that technology, and fight the temptation to scope creep that into the IAC-2 design spec.Brando wrote:What makes you think DRDO is going to build and design a nuclear power plant ?? Did they "build and design" the ATV reactor ? Indian PWRs have been around since the 70s. Obviously, marine propulsion was not the design objective but even here they have some understanding of how to proceed.RajitO wrote: But between counting on DRDO to design and deliver a N-plant for a new build being built by a PSU shipyard......
The larger point is that the IAC-2 will see India catapult (heh) itself into a new league, let's just be smart in picking which battles we want to fight.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
There are firm plans for 4 more SSN/SSBNs, and what works for a sub propulsion should work for ACs too. For new generation reactors the R&D cycles can be different from Operational deployment cycles.
Speaking of design, can Vikramaditya be retrofitted with N-propulsion at a later date? Russians were even thinking of equipping their destroyers with them.
Speaking of design, can Vikramaditya be retrofitted with N-propulsion at a later date? Russians were even thinking of equipping their destroyers with them.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Nuclear propulsion is way ahead in timeline. I refer again to this article http://frontierindia.net/indian-navy-to ... ft-carrier
Steam propulsion is coming back as per the article which quotes IN personnel from SMM India.
Steam propulsion is coming back as per the article which quotes IN personnel from SMM India.
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Another is Electric propulsion http://frontierindia.net/indian-navy-ld ... l-cell-aip
Again from SMM India
Again from SMM India
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
It is the aircraft aboard the carrier that will determine the kind of launching system.The cost of cats is very high,why the RN chose the STOVL version of the JSF.It requires a far more powerful power plant too.This would add $2-3B to the cost,the cost of the entire air wing aboard the carrier! In all probability,IAC-2 will also be STOBAR carrier,but with heavier fighters like naval versions of the SU-30,or a naval variant of the FGFA,which will definitely be developed by Russia.IAC-2 might have a nuclear plan though,as within a decade,we would've built improved versions of the N-plants aboard our N-subs.Ideally,a STOVL version of the FGFA would be great.Naval rafale is another option,but its cost factor is a huge problem,when compared with either the MIG-29Ks or naval Flankers.
Possessing 3 STOBAR carriers would simplify training too of naval aviators.One has to ponder what comes after IAC-2,By then,naval UCAVs as are being tested aboard US carriers will complement manned aircraft and we should plan for a naval variant of our classified UCAV.carrioers will also have to have some advanced integral SAM systems and hard and soft anti-torpedo devices.Operating the Vik/Gorky and IAC-1 by 2020 will give us the experience to advance to the next step.
If we are able to possess a STOVL fighter,then theoretically,all larger warships of size 12,000t and above could have flat tops and accommodate a small air wing of STOVL aircraft and ASW/AEW helos.A large weaponload of missiles in VLS silos flush with the deck as is seen on the Kuznetsov,would give the warship extra strike capability.These mini-carriers would be able to form the backbone of smaller task forces and give them extra reach and air defence capability.A pity we possess so few Harriers.The USMC have hundreds in s4ervice still.
PS:The foll. report follows the course that I've predicted,"bi-lateral" exercises and not "multi-lateral" exercises to avoid being drawn into a military "bloc".
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1 ... -exercises
India, Japan to regularize naval exercises
Possessing 3 STOBAR carriers would simplify training too of naval aviators.One has to ponder what comes after IAC-2,By then,naval UCAVs as are being tested aboard US carriers will complement manned aircraft and we should plan for a naval variant of our classified UCAV.carrioers will also have to have some advanced integral SAM systems and hard and soft anti-torpedo devices.Operating the Vik/Gorky and IAC-1 by 2020 will give us the experience to advance to the next step.
If we are able to possess a STOVL fighter,then theoretically,all larger warships of size 12,000t and above could have flat tops and accommodate a small air wing of STOVL aircraft and ASW/AEW helos.A large weaponload of missiles in VLS silos flush with the deck as is seen on the Kuznetsov,would give the warship extra strike capability.These mini-carriers would be able to form the backbone of smaller task forces and give them extra reach and air defence capability.A pity we possess so few Harriers.The USMC have hundreds in s4ervice still.
PS:The foll. report follows the course that I've predicted,"bi-lateral" exercises and not "multi-lateral" exercises to avoid being drawn into a military "bloc".
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1 ... -exercises
India, Japan to regularize naval exercises
TOKYO: Taking their strategic cooperation further, India and Japan on Wednesday announced that bilateral naval exercises would be regularised and held more frequently.
However, both countries made it clear that multi-lateral naval exercises, involving more countries, would not be held.
“The bilateral naval exercises will be regularised. These are going to be implemented more frequently,” Tonohika Taniguchi, councillor and a member of the Japanese prime minister’s strategic team, said here.
He said India and Japan were giving emphasis to strategic partnership, especially when it comes to safeguarding their respective maritime regions. Both countries have maritime interests in the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean, respectively.
Japan has already expressed its concern over the move by China to regulate maritime movement in the South China Sea.
“We will be concerned if there is any attempt to change the rules of movement,” Taniguchi said, referring to the move by China.
Japan and India have been calling for strengthening of mutual cooperation to ensure regional stability in Asia, especially in the maritime zones.
Both countries have meetings of their foreign and defence ministers on regular basis to engage in strategic cooperation.
The US and Australia have shown interest in joining the naval exercises conducted by Japan and India jointly.
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member_23455
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
At the powerpoint slide show level yes, but where the rubber meets the road in actually engineering something that works for a carrier, it might be better to crawl, walk, run.vasu raya wrote:There are firm plans for 4 more SSN/SSBNs, and what works for a sub propulsion should work for ACs too. For new generation reactors the R&D cycles can be different from Operational deployment cycles.
The French, arguably the next most advanced in carrier capability to the US have had a nightmare with the Charles De Gaulle, just with the overall complexity, not with the N-propulsion alone.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
^^^
The Indian SSBN program was more than a decade in the making, and IAC-1 has its delays, so there is your risk reduction, now most likely IAC-2 would be built on the lessons learnt from these projects. Btw, the 2nd SSBN is seeing a reduced development timeline.
EMALS is a higher risk proposition for IAC-2 since it has no precedence anywhere in the Indian industry and needs a generous helping hand from US or we buy it 'off the shelf' and probably makes the sale easier for them if IAC-2 was conventionally powered. Such a sale involves Congressional clearance, invasive inspections etc.
Looks like its either EMALS or N-Propulsion, cannot have both.
The Indian SSBN program was more than a decade in the making, and IAC-1 has its delays, so there is your risk reduction, now most likely IAC-2 would be built on the lessons learnt from these projects. Btw, the 2nd SSBN is seeing a reduced development timeline.
EMALS is a higher risk proposition for IAC-2 since it has no precedence anywhere in the Indian industry and needs a generous helping hand from US or we buy it 'off the shelf' and probably makes the sale easier for them if IAC-2 was conventionally powered. Such a sale involves Congressional clearance, invasive inspections etc.
Looks like its either EMALS or N-Propulsion, cannot have both.
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member_26622
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
US is not going to sell us EMALS for less than a billion dollars...It costs them 500 million apiece (http://grandlogistics.blogspot.com/2011 ... apult.html). Count maintenance, direct government contract means 1 billion USD.
Don't be surprised if China's next carriers sport EMALS. They will hack in to US systems and have the designs drawings. Maybe we can hack in to Chinese systems and get the original US drawings?
Don't be surprised if China's next carriers sport EMALS. They will hack in to US systems and have the designs drawings. Maybe we can hack in to Chinese systems and get the original US drawings?
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
^ You can't attribute all of China's advances to hacking, china is pumping billions into R&D, for example they spent tens of billions' for "Aegis" system. They had multiple test vessels & platforms the tested the system for years, where as news media portray as china simply downloading the schematics and coming up with it overnight.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
You need local industry and industrial strength to build up something even if you sucessfully spy or hack into networks assuming you managed to take 100 % of all that you need all the time every time , What hacking does to China is it tells how good US is in current development and technology and where they lack and how much to catch up with but it does not mean that China can catch up with them without industrial strength , technology and man power to build their own thing.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
INS Vikrant was operating with catapults before replacing with the ski jump to accomodate the sea harriers. Watch from 3:55 onwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_ZvlAK0nc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_ZvlAK0nc
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member_26965
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Here is a pic of the steam catapult of INS Vikrant. You can see Sea hawk positioned over it. I also visited IMS Vikrant, there was a small glass enclosure near the catapult where someone called catapult master (?) used to stand and watch.
http://frontierindia.net/album/ins-vikr ... ult-system
http://frontierindia.net/album/ins-vikr ... ult-system
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
BrahMos ready to be fitted on future submarines, Sivathanu Pillai - The Hindu
Underwater trial of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile heralds its readiness to fit in with new generation P 75(I) submarines, said A. Sivathanu Pillai, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
a perfect example of the marriage hall being ready and the marriage party nowhere to be seen.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
Which is a crying shame because a sub based brahmos would be one of our biggest assets at sea.
Re: Indian Naval Discussion
ranji wrote:Here is a pic of the steam catapult of INS Vikrant. You can see Sea hawk positioned over it. I also visited IMS Vikrant, there was a small glass enclosure near the catapult where someone called catapult master (?) used to stand and watch.
http://frontierindia.net/album/ins-vikr ... ult-system
My Uncle was the "Catapult Officer" when the Vikrant sailed from the UK to India. He was in the UK, involved with the refitting of the INS Vikrant V1