Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2013 20:17

Saik, Thanks for the graphic. However its the wrong missile. AV does not have those truss interstages.

The PTI report is a key information. The lighter payload now allows declaring it as an ICBM. So both the AV tests were full range.

Pratyush thanks the OT thread is there for your comments.

Hindu report linked above:

In a stunning success for the second time in 17 months, India’s most formidable and advanced strategic missile, Agni-V was tested for its full range of 5,000 km on Sunday.

The launch of the nuclear weapons capable Agni-V once again demonstrated India’s capability in firing an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM). India staked the claim to join an elite club of nations to possess the technology for developing ICBMs after the remarkable success of Agni-V’s maiden flight-test in April last year.

Soon after the test-firing at 8.50 a.m. Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and Director General of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO, Avinash Chander asserted that Agni-V was an ICBM and declared that the next launch would be canister-based. "The country has established ICMB capability with the successful second test", he added and said that system was now ready to be productionsied. It would would be inducted into the Army in a couple of years after few more trials.

Describing it as an overhwelming success, V.G. Sekaran, Chief Controller ( MIssiles and Strategic Systems), DRDO, said it was an "overwhelming success and showed the reliability and maturity of the sub-systems. It has established our readiness to move to the next stage of canisterisation", he added

The three-stage, nuclear capable weapon Agni-V has the capability to carry over a 1,000 kg warhead over a distance of 5,000 km. It can cover entire Asia and most other land masses. All the three stages are solid-fuelled.

After a few hiccups during the pre-launch count down and even after the auto-launch, the 17-metre tall missile rose majestically from a mobile launcher and zoomed into the sky. After the three stages got separated as planned at different altitudes, the nose cone carrying the dummy payload withstood scorching temperatures of 3000 degrees celsius , while re-entering the atmosphere and zeroed in on to the pre-designated target point in the Indian Ocean, 5000 km away with an accuracy of a few metres after a flight duration of little over 20 minutes.

Earlier, the missile was brought to the launch pad and a pooja was preformed while it was in horizontal position. The missile carried a host of advanced technologies like composte motor casings, navigation systems, multiple telemtry systems and smooth separation systems. Soon after the comand was given, the entire mission was carried out in automode till the final terminal event. The full trajectory and performance of the missile until its splash down, including the explosion of the dummy warhead were tracked by radars along the East Coast and three ships--one at midrange and two positioned near the target point.

Celebrations broke out on the Wheeler Island soon after the successful launch and Defence Minister A.K. Antony congratulated the entire DRDO team for the second success.


5000 km is ~2800 nautical miles.

20 minuites flight time would mean ~3 mins total for the three stages(180 secs total) and the rest in ballistic and reentry phase.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby RamaY » 15 Sep 2013 20:30

Gurujis

What can be included in a 1360kg Mithai packet? Can it include 3 MIRV kajas?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby isubodh » 15 Sep 2013 20:30

Will they ever test the full range of the missile ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2013 20:39


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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Hiten » 15 Sep 2013 22:08

a hearty congratulations to ISRO for successfully test-firing a shape-shifting Agni 5 missile


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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2013 22:56

nice clear report from ETV!!!

Wish English DDM also had such clarity.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Sagar G » 15 Sep 2013 23:08

vasu raya wrote:precision of few meters - counter force option? or useful in reducing the warhead weight?


Warhead weight it is.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Karan M » 15 Sep 2013 23:09

Ramana

Real Time Mid-course Maneuver and Guidance of a Generic Reentry Vehicle

http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/ind ... /4207/2890

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby partha » 16 Sep 2013 01:36

Best report from Ajai Shukla.

http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/agni-5-on-target-despite-glitches-113091500174_1.html

Three hours after the sun rose out of the lake-calm Bay of Bengal, another ball of fire, the Agni-5 Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM), roared into the sky on Sunday morning.

Twenty minutes later, the warhead — a real atomic bomb in every respect except for a nuclear core — splashed down, almost 5,000 km away in the southern Indian Ocean. Two Indian ships were stationed there to capture the explosion, the footage relayed in real time to the Mission Control Centre here.

Surrounded by a wildly cheering throng of normally staid scientists and engineers from the Defence R&D Organisation, the DRDO chief, Avinash Chander, declared victory. “This (second launch of the Agni-5) is a perfect and complete success, meeting all our mission objectives. We have got the data right up to impact, including the terminal event,” he said.

Hurdles
This eventually successful mission saw plenty of unforeseen drama, which had seemed a mere theoretical possibility when the day began, with the DRDO’s leadership praying for success at a small temple on this island, about 150 km from Bhubaneswar, off the state’s coastline. After that scientific nod to the need for divine support, a simulated political order for a nuclear strike was received, from New Delhi. Vice Admiral S P S Cheema, who heads the Strategic Forces Command (SFC), keyed in the appropriate launch codes and preparations began. Then, a fault was discovered in the telemetry systems of one of the ships positioned along the flight path, which meant data might not be gathered for part of the missile’s flight. Drawing on their experience of tens of missile launches, the DRDO team decided to go ahead. The missing data, said Chander later, would be captured at various other telemetry stations.

The countdown began but was halted just 14 seconds from launch, when one of the missile components signalled a malfunction. By now, storm clouds were gathering over the island, the weather another concern. Mission Control quickly determined it was a false alarm and, amid knife-edge tension, the countdown began again. As the rocket engines burst into life and Agni-5 smoothly lifted off the launch pad, a roar went up from the packed gathering. After that, it was a textbook mission all the way.

Success
After 90 seconds, the giant 40-tonne first stage dropped away, having propelled Agni-5 to an altitude of about 36 km. About 75 seconds later, the 10-tonne stage-2 rocket was jettisoned, having propelled the missile up to 110 km. Four minutes after launch, with Agni-5 now 220 km above the earth, the 2.5-tonne stage-3 rocket fell away. By now, the 19 metre-high, 50-tonne missile that had blasted off from here was a mere 1.2-tonne projectile, hurtling through space at almost six km a second. Inside this was a simulated nuclear warhead and the navigation package that would guide it precisely to the impact point.

Re-entering the atmosphere about 80 kms above the earth, the missile encountered its final test, to maintain the temperature inside the projectile at a balmy 40 degrees Celsius, even as atmospheric friction heated the carbon composite outer casing to 2,500-3,000 degrees. Agni-5 passed that test, too; the warhead’s arrival at the target was evident from the explosion visible on the live feed from the ship in the target area.

Said former SFC chief, Air Marshal K K Matthews, at a debriefing after the mission,“This was a special launch, one where I saw fantastic decision-making amidst great tension. We had three small-big problems and the decision could easily have been to cancel the launch.”

Ahead
After its second successful Agni-5 test, DRDO is developing a canisterised version of the missile. Congratulating his scientists after the launch, the DRDO chief urged them to test-fire the canisterised Agni-5 within “a few months”.

Chander also said Sunday’s test had demonstrated that Agni-5 was ready for production. In fact, at least three test-flights of the canisterised Agni-5 (the form in which the operational missiles will be deployed) are planned before production begins. The production stage involves placing orders of ‘long lead items’ with suppliers well ahead of time and that is likely soon. The Agni-5 project has been cleared by the cabinet, which means funds can be allocated without lengthy procedures.

India’s military has so far operationally deployed the Prithvi missile (350 km), the Agni-1 (1,000 km), Agni-2 (2,000 km) and Agni-3 (3,000 km). The Agni-5 will extend the reach of India’s nuclear deterrent to 5,000 km, covering China, West Asia, Southeast Asia and large parts of Africa.

DRDO is simultaneously developing technologies for the Agni-6 missile. In an earlier conversation with Business Standard, the DRDO chief said Agni-6 would carry a massive three-tonne warhead, thrice the weight of the one-tonne-class warheads that these missiles have so far carried. This expanded payload will allow each Agni-6 missile to launch several nuclear warheads, called Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicles (MIRVs), with each one capable of being directed towards a different target. Each warhead — called a Maneuverable Re-entry Vehicle (MARV) — can perform evasive maneuvers while hurtling towards its target, confusing enemy air defence missiles that are trying to destroy these mid-air.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 16 Sep 2013 03:27

jamwal wrote:
Soon after the test-firing at 8.50 a.m. Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and Director General of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO, Avinash Chander asserted that Agni-V was an ICBM and declared that the next launch would be canister-based. "The country has established ICMB capability with the successful second test", he added and said that system was now ready to be productionsied. It would would be inducted into the Army in a couple of years after few more trials.


Interesting that first one was not really an ICBM and this one is


Though initially A-V was dubbed as IRBM by media and analysts, hours before its maiden launch, DRDO used the term ICBM. Now we have a direct quote from the Head declaring as ICBM unequivocally.

If we go by various speeches from Indian Strategic speakers, in Indian context, categorization of ICBM or IRBM is based on the speed of missile than the distance. Ofcourse distance too matters.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby vasu raya » 16 Sep 2013 03:31

Thanks Sagar G, between a 100m CEP and 10m CEP does the warhead weight need to change so much? when it has say a minimum of 500m absolute destruction zone regardless. That kind of CEP matters in counter force targeting and such accurate guidance matters for upcoming MaRVs perhaps

About the real time relay, is the recently launched GSAT-7 already operational?

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Kanson » 16 Sep 2013 03:35

Chander also said Sunday’s test had demonstrated that Agni-5 was ready for production.


As I mentioned earlier, Agni V team has given the missile a thorough 'Design & Development' to consider the missile early for production. Further, i was also hastened by security scenario.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Kanson » 16 Sep 2013 03:47

Karan M wrote:Ramana

Real Time Mid-course Maneuver and Guidance of a Generic Reentry Vehicle

http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/ind ... /4207/2890


Even before burnout, I have spider-sense of trajectory sophistication in Agni-I launches leave alone A4 or A5 compared to one happened a decade earlier.
Last edited by Kanson on 16 Sep 2013 03:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby svinayak » 16 Sep 2013 03:48

Kanson wrote:
Chander also said Sunday’s test had demonstrated that Agni-5 was ready for production.


As I mentioned earlier, Agni V team has given the missile a thorough 'Design & Development' to consider the missile early for production. Further, i was also hastened by security scenario.

Is there any link to GSLV launch which was stopped

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2013 04:38

So powered flight for AV was four minutes. I was off by one minute! :(

I didn't expect the 90 secs for the First stage and the 75 secs for the SS. I thought it was more like 60 sec and 45 secs.

So these are high thrust long burn motors.
Good to hear the A6 is the name for the MARV version.

Even more interesting is the command and control beingg proofed in the second development flight. Its quasi User Trial mode.
The three glitches is interesting:
The first was a data receiving ship issue. So external to the bird.
The second was a false negative at T-14 which was cleared out and launch went through. This one could be the testing/checkout module on the ground. Again external to the bird.

I guess third was the weather:clouds etc.

Wish we could see the splash down and fuze functioning.
Does Ajay Shukla or anyone know the height of burst?



Talking to ArunS today I had speculated the MARV version would be a different configuration as it would need a payload fairing, a guidance bus and payload separation system.
He thought most likely one of the MARVs could host the missile control system and could be the last one off.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby dinesha » 16 Sep 2013 08:03

Agni-V now ready for induction into the Army
By Hemant Kumar Rout
http://newindianexpress.com/nation/Agni ... 785989.ece
Amid Beijing's concern over India's inter-continental missile capabilities, the DRDO successfully test launched the country's longest range nuke-capable missile Agni-V from a defence base off the Odisha coast on Sunday. It was second experimental test of the 5000-km range weapon system capable of delivering nuclear warhead with high precision.

Defence sources said the indigenously built surface-to-surface Inter-Continental range Ballistic Missile (ICBM) blasted off from a mobile launcher at the Wheeler Island, a part of Integrated Test Range (ITR) at about 8.50 am. The entire mission team celebrated the moment as the missile pierced into the sky, spewing thick yellow and white smoke in a repeat of spectacular maiden launch last year.

A major milestone, this second successful test of Agni-V has demonstrated the maturity, repeatability and robustness of the system, paving the way for initiation of its production and subsequent induction. The missile reportedly covered the full range in around 1200 seconds.

Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and Director General of DRDO Avinash Chander said a symbol of DRDO's technological excellence and India's strength, the missile flew on a predefined path and reached its destination with expected precision.

"The aim of the trial was to make sure that whatever we had achieved last time is perfectly repeated. We are ready to go further and the system has to get inducted fast. We have been very successful in achieving that objective.

Two consecutive successes have proved the designs are just perfect and the system is matured.Now the missile is ready for the production," he told 'The Express'.

Though initially the countdown was stopped nearly 14 seconds prior to the launch due to a 'false' alarm about a possible glitch in a missile component, it again started after a clearance from the mission control room.

Earlier, a snag was also detected in the telemetry system positioned in a ship which was ignored.

The missile, powered by three stage solid rocket motors had in fact a flawless, spectacular launch in auto mode and followed its entire trajectory in textbook manner, dropping the three motors at predefined stages into the ocean.

Sources said the first rocket engine took it to a height of about 40 kms while the second stage pushed it to about 120 kms before the third stage carried the vehicle to about 300 kms above the earth. The missile finally reached an altitude of about 600 kms before zeroing in on the target.

Three warships - one in midrange and two at the target point tracked the missile and witnessed the final event. All the radars and electro-optical systems monitored the performance parameters of the weapon and displayed information in real time.

All the systems and subsystems of the missile, including the launch system, navigation system, control systems, rocket motors and re-entry mechanism performed well. The re-entry heat shield withstood temperatures of over 3000 degree centigrade and made the avionics function normally.

As the missile is expected to be inducted in the armed forces by 2015, personnel of the Strategic Forces Command (SFC) along with its top brass was present during all the operations to get acquainted with the system and trained.

Defence Minister AK Antony has congratulated all the scientists of DRDO associated with the mission and said defence scientists had made the country proud. Terming the event as a milestone in the long range missile era of India, National Security Advisor (NSA) Shiv Shankar Menon also has praised DRDO scientists for the success.

The DRDO chief had throughout guided the launch as well as prelaunch activities. Chief Controller (Missiles and Strategic Systems) VG Sekaran, ASL Director Jayaraman, RCI Director Satish Reddy, ITR Director MVKV Prasad, Pune based R&DE Director Guruprasad, Agni-V Project Director R K Gupta and a host of defence scientists witnessed the launch operation.

Canister-based Agni-V launch next year

Soon after the second successful test of Agni-V, DRDO Chief Avinash Chander declared that the missile would be test fired from a canister-based launcher next year
. In its operational form the missile is designed to be stored and launched from the canister, enhancing its storage, operational readiness, transportability, response time and shelf life. The canister-based system mounted on a truck will add operational flexibility thus making it user friendly. "The next test of Agni-V will be from a canisterised launcher," he added.

Third test of Agni-IV shortly

After the Agni-V success, the DRDO is planning to carry out the third developmental test of 4,000-km range ballistic missile Agni-IV. This nuclear tipped missile will be tested from the Wheeler Island soon.
The two-stage solid propelled missile is 20 meter tall and weighs around 17 tonne.Compared to the Pershing missile of the US in terms of technology, the Agni-IV has many cutting-edge technologies, which can meet global standards.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Austin » 16 Sep 2013 09:31

ramana wrote:So powered flight for AV was four minutes.


So just 4 minutes of Active Flight of 3 stage rocket takes it to 600 km Altitude quite energetic 8)

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby AbhiJ » 16 Sep 2013 11:06

India tests new, long-range Agni-V nuclear-capable missile

"Agni" is a word meaning "fire" in both Sanskrit and present-day Hindi given to a series of Indian rockets, and can trace its way via Latin to the English "ignite."


:roll:

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby member_23455 » 16 Sep 2013 11:07

Austin wrote:
ramana wrote:So powered flight for AV was four minutes.


So just 4 minutes of Active Flight of 3 stage rocket takes it to 600 km Altitude quite energetic 8)


:) That's a mistake in the article, should be around 200-250 km.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby rajanb » 16 Sep 2013 12:37

So the fourth stage could actually manoeuvre/re-position it to re-enter and hit a target more than 5,000km away?

I think that's why the Chinese are saying its range is 8,000 km?

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby pankajs » 16 Sep 2013 12:42

IMHO, 8K range claim is based on the missile mass and the tech levels achieved by the Agni program.

Assuming you are referring to MARV as the 4th stage, it could possibly enable different cities/locations to be targeted 100km or perhaps even 200 km apart but cannot account for 2k-3k range variance.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby rajanb » 16 Sep 2013 13:09

Thanks Pankaj.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby chaanakya » 16 Sep 2013 15:41

pankajs wrote:IMHO, 8K range claim is based on the missile mass and the tech levels achieved by the Agni program.

Assuming you are referring to MARV as the 4th stage, it could possibly enable different cities/locations to be targeted 100km or perhaps even 200 km apart but cannot account for 2k-3k range variance.

I heard the interview of V K Saraswat after the first launch of Agni-V and he hinted at 8000 range. The interview was on Dd and linked extracts here.

viewtopic.php?p=1273194#p1273194

On the range of Agni-5 missile which was scuccessfully test-fired recently off Odisha coast, the DRDO chief said with moderate modifications, "it can be extended to any range which is of our interest."

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby SaiK » 16 Sep 2013 16:47

I don't think i can have more than 4 minutes for any ABM measures against chippanda. that means, i need something like atmosphere missile launch detection or better still "detect at launch" capability. i need satellite based monitoring (difficult till the altitude reaches few kms).. >x band radar satellites? anyway slightly OT. just thinking out loud.

apologies ramana for posting the wrong image/reuter.

stronger signals when MARV + ABM combined with launch detection system would send the right message, is what I meant. it enables IA, as to when to begin launch per doctrine. lot of abm integration news is what makes the jilebi enters the stomach.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Singha » 16 Sep 2013 17:14

if the 1st stage of A5 and its children become composite (which will be tech spinoff from the K5), then we might see an increase in range? does anyone know by how much higher velocity 1st stage burnout will occur for a composite 1st stage vs steel....it also offers the option of downsizing the 1st stage but retaining same range to make missile shorter.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Sagar G » 16 Sep 2013 17:53

vasu raya wrote:Thanks Sagar G, between a 100m CEP and 10m CEP does the warhead weight need to change so much? when it has say a minimum of 500m absolute destruction zone regardless. That kind of CEP matters in counter force targeting and such accurate guidance matters for upcoming MaRVs perhaps


For targeting hardened military installations you need accuracy, even if you want to target cities there are pockets of population concentration even though the population is spread over the entire city, so to cause maximum damage you need to put your maal at the right place so that it gives you the desired damage. Thermal heat and blast pressure is one aspect of a nuke bum the initial destruction effect comes from these elements and with increasing distance the effect of these two degrades severely. With increased accuracy you can make your payload lighter since with more accuracy you can have the desired destruction which otherwise is offset by having a high yield bum with lesser terminal accuracy. I don't know how effective will an ICBM be with a flight time in several minutes for counter force targeting.

For further reading and understanding the nuclear bum and it's effects you can download and read The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, or an online version

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Sagar G » 16 Sep 2013 17:56

Singha wrote:does anyone know by how much higher velocity 1st stage burnout will occur for a composite 1st stage vs steel....


Isn't that the property of the propellant rather than the material of which the stages are made ???

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Manish_Sharma » 16 Sep 2013 19:03

Maybe the propellant difference between chinese and our missiles leads them to miscalculate the range?

As Arun ji had posted this article:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6509&p=1490028#p1490028

arun wrote:IDSA Occasional Paper No. 31 : India's Nuclear Triad. A Net Assessment.

Came across the above IDSA paper dating back to April 2013.

Paper indicates that Hydroxyl-Terminated Poly Butadiene (HTPB) is being elbowed aside by Nitrate Ester Plasticized Polyether (NEPE) as the solid propellant of choice for Ballistic Missiles and here India is losing technological ground to P.R. China (Pages 24 to 28).

Excerpt:

Most of the Chinese missiles after being upgraded to newer solid versions are better in terms of quality and technology. It’s believed that majority of them use Nitrate Ester Plasticised Polyether (NEPE) kind of propellant which integrates the advantages of double-base propellants and composite propellant, in other term collectively known as composite modified double based propellants. India on the other side currently using Hydroxyl-Terminated Poly Butadiene (HTPB) which is a composite based propellant used in all versions of Agni missiles..................

So fundamentally it is observed that NEPE propellants perform better at higher temperature and for longer period of time, also these propellant perform better in terms of mechanical properties than HTPB at transition temperature, as they become independent of temperature which is important factor for long range missiles especially ICBM. NEPE has various consistencies in its chemical composition, hence it offers wide window of opportunity to enhance efficiency of propellant.

In respect of specific impulse (it is the change in momentum per unit mass for rocket fuels, i.e. more the Isp better is initial thrust hence need of lesser fuel), due to composite modified double based fuel NEPE have better Isp than composite propellant HTPB. Better Isp also gives better initial thrust during stage separation hence longer range in lesser fuel...................


I had sent this article to Arun_S and he also agreed with the article.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Sagar G » 16 Sep 2013 19:18

in other term collectively known as composite modified double based propellants


HEMRL has established the technology for the same

Composite Modified Double Base Propellants

The technology using solid oxidizers and metal fuel in double base propellant matrix of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine has been established. A large variety of formulations with wide burn rates have been developed. A process for casting cross-linked composite modified double base propellant (CMDB) has been patented.


Given the secrecy around our strategic missile programs it would be hard to tell what kind of propellant does the A-4 and A-5 use. Is there any public info released about the same ???

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2013 20:06

Austin wrote:
ramana wrote:So powered flight for AV was four minutes.


So just 4 minutes of Active Flight of 3 stage rocket takes it to 600 km Altitude quite energetic 8)



The T/S cutoff at 220 km height. The 600km was the ballistic apogee point.

First stage from T-0 to T-90 to 40km height (H.K. Rout) ie about 130KFeet about right for F/S sep.
Second stage T-90 to T-165 to 110 km height (HK Rout says 120km)
T/S T-165 to T-240 to 220 km height (HK Rout says ~300km)
Ballistic coast to 600km prior to descent phase at 6km/sec (Both agree to 600km) in about (1200/2-240 secs = 360 secs)

Total time to splashdown is 20 min or 1200 secs


I think this time A-V-2 was tested in a different mode than the A-V-1. In earlier test the T/S was ignited/fired before reentry. In this test the T/S was ignited in the ascent phase.

Maybe some one can look back and confirm.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby member_23694 » 16 Sep 2013 20:31

Any possibility of using the advancement of A4/A5 propulsion & composites for the space launchers ?

For ex. using the first stage of A5 as strap-ons on PSLV and A4/A5 propelant in first stage of PSLV. What kind of increase
in payload capability this would provide for LEO/GTO or some interplanetry missions for PSLV rocket.

Any pointers please ?

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby svinayak » 16 Sep 2013 23:42

Peoples Daily Online - India testfires nuclear-capable Agni-V ballistic missile



Mao Dengjiang September 12, 2013 at 4:21 pm
"China Killer"?!

Nothing reflects the village gangsters' mentalty better than verbiage like this. Is this what India is?

Nothing more than a basket of venmous cobras slithering and trying to get out of their rattan basket to inflict fights in the world.

The word "China killer" is an insult.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2013 00:02

Two more comments:

Ajay Shukla's article says its 19 meters and the total 50 tonne and final velocity of 6 km/sec

By now, the 19 metre-high, 50-tonne missile that had blasted off from here was a mere 1.2-tonne projectile, hurtling through space at almost six km a second.


The AV-1 test vehicle was reported to be 17.2 m and 50 tonne weight!

Also the T/S was ignited after reentry with final velocity near 7 km/sec.

I think AS article has some confusion on length and total weight:

After 90 seconds, the giant 40-tonne first stage dropped away, having propelled Agni-5 to an altitude of about 36 km. About 75 seconds later, the 10-tonne stage-2 rocket was jettisoned, having propelled the missile up to 110 km. Four minutes after launch, with Agni-5 now 220 km above the earth, the 2.5-tonne stage-3 rocket fell away. By now, the 19 metre-high, 50-tonne missile :?: that had blasted off from here was a mere 1.2-tonne projectile, hurtling through space at almost six km a second. Inside this was a simulated nuclear warhead and the navigation package that would guide it precisely to the impact point.



40+10+2.5+1.2 >50T

Other reports don't talk of any vehicle paramater changes. So Business Standard editors should do an arithmetic check for their credibility or else it will be like their initials.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby SaiK » 17 Sep 2013 00:26

T/S fired after reentry means MARV concept validated. ?

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2013 00:54

When they did they did the first test a year ago I wanted the a service chief to be in the loop.

viewtopic.php?p=1271189#p1271189

Looks like it was!!!

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby Prem Kumar » 17 Sep 2013 01:10

Ramana: if vehicle dimensions & propellants dont change (which I think is reasonable to assume), shouldnt the final velocity should be same irrespective of when the 3rd stage was fired?

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2013 01:16

Depends on the trajectory chosen and any energy wasting moves.
-----------------

Rethinking and taking into account the DDM writes what they thought they heard its most likely the sequence given in AV-2 is the right one. (See the discrepancy in same para in Business Standard article by a former military person)
The designers would like to repeat the results for increased confidence in the system and thus enable quick deployment. I think in the big picture both tests are the same.

This time they are giving more details of motor burn time which was not there earlier.

BTW the crucial event was First stage separation at the 40km altitude.
After that its a cinch. Relatively speaking!

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby partha » 17 Sep 2013 07:47

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/agni-v-is-not-only-about-range/1170084/0

Agni V is not only about range
Manu Pubby : Tue Sep 17 2013, 01:18 hrs


The challenge lies in proving technology of such strategic nature at a different level — gaining the trust of the users, the Strategic Forces Command, that a foolproof system will not fail in the time of need. While four more tests will be carried out before formal induction of the serial produced variant in two years, a critical factor will be ensuring the quality of production — a sore issue that has plagued not just missiles but most indigenous military systems.

An even bigger challenge that remains is fine-tuning the technology to meet the requirements of a modern and dynamic battlefield. The Agni V has a designed precision of landing within a 100 metre of the intended target (CEP). This needs to be brought down to 10-15 metre. Though nuclear missiles can afford to be a bit off the target, it must not be forgotten that the Agni series also have a conventional role. A military mind would appreciate how far the capability of precisely hitting a hardened target at long range with a conventional warhead can be exploited.


100 meters?! This is the first time I am coming across this figure. All reports till now have mentioned "precision of landing within few meters". I always translated "few meters" to "10 to 20 meters" in my mind. The figure of 100 is new. Any other source?

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby prahaar » 17 Sep 2013 07:57

partha wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/agni-v-is-not-only-about-range/1170084/0
100 meters?! This is the first time I am coming across this figure. All reports till now have mentioned "precision of landing within few meters". I always translated "few meters" to "10 to 20 meters" in my mind. The figure of 100 is new. Any other source?


Wiki says ICBMs 10K+ range (Trident-II, TOPOL) have a range of in the region of 100m and 200m respectively. So Agni V would not be an outlier even if the range was 100m.

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Re: Agni-V ICBM: New capabilities, technologies, strategies

Postby partha » 17 Sep 2013 08:04

prahaar wrote:
partha wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/agni-v-is-not-only-about-range/1170084/0
100 meters?! This is the first time I am coming across this figure. All reports till now have mentioned "precision of landing within few meters". I always translated "few meters" to "10 to 20 meters" in my mind. The figure of 100 is new. Any other source?


Wiki says ICBMs 10K+ range (Trident-II, TOPOL) have a range of in the region of 100m and 200m respectively. So Agni V would not be an outlier even if the range was 100m.

Thanks. Just that in my mind it was always 10 to 20 metres.


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