Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 02 Feb 2016 03:38

Jan 4, 2016 :: PM Lays Foundation Stone for HAL’s New Helicopter Manufacturing Facility at Tumakuru, Karnataka Promises More Support

Media release:

Design and development was launched in February 2009. The initial Ground Test Vehicle (GTV) run was completed on December 6, 2014. Operational clearance of the basic version is expected during 2016-17.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 02 Feb 2016 03:46

Has (Yet) Another Indo-Russian Weapons Deal Gone Awry?

Overall, the Indian military plans to procure 600 new light helicopters. However, Russian helicopters will be facing competition from HAL’s new Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), which will make its first flight in February 2016, and of which the Indian defense ministry plans to acquire a fleet of 200 aircraft. According to sources interviewed by The Business Standard, “the bulk of the order for the remaining 200 would fall to whichever manufacturer delivers 200 helicopters first.”


That on the Indian LUH.

On a separate note, looks to me that the Kamov-226T is DOA. Which should be good news for the LUH.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 02 Feb 2016 06:13

-Deleted-

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 02 Feb 2016 07:24


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 02 Feb 2016 10:10

Ha!ha! Is this the outcome of the last Indo-UK air exercises where according to some informed sources,our Sukhoi-30MKIs rogered the RAF's Tyhpoon's backsides?

Losing that ‘Top Gun’ feeling: Out-of-practice RAF needs dogfight training
1 Feb, 2016
https://www.rt.com/uk/330904-raf-top-gun-dogfight/
Years of bombing targets in Iraq and Afghanistan that don’t shoot back appear to have left Britain’s Royal Air Force (RAF) a little rusty in the dogfighting skills department. Officials are determined to send UK pilots back to school, according to reports.

Senior officers fear the skill fade, due to lack of air-to-air combat, could leave the RAF lagging behind if it ever came to a showdown with Russian jets. :rotfl:

The issue was touched on in January by Air Vice-Marshal Gary Waterfall, who in 2012 won a CBE for his efforts during the air war over Libya.

UK Defence Secretary
He said he saw the formation of a “Red Air” unit as a “prioritized” aim. Red Air refers to a group of American servicemen who flew against US pilots during training in Soviet uniforms and using Russian tactics, as depicted in cult movie classic “Top Gun.”

“These guys would be the first port of call should we need an opposing force to participate in an air combat exercise,” an anonymous RAF officer told the Times newspaper.

The task will fall to the UK’s recently expanded Typhoon fighter-bomber squadrons with some units specializing in bombing with Brimstone or Storm Shadow munitions and others being designated for the Red Air role.

Tensions between Britain and Russia have been high in recent years over disagreements on Ukraine and Syria.

The UK has also complained of a number of alleged incursions into or near UK airspace, most often by Russian Bear bombers.

In 2015, there were a number of incidents when British fighter jets were scrambled to intercept Russian aircraft. In November, RAF Typhoon fighter jets intercepted Russian bombers passing close to UK airspace over the Atlantic Ocean.

Earlier in the year, Russia’s ambassador was summoned by the UK Foreign Office, to lodge a complaint about a flight of Russian military jets over the English Channel, which British authorities claimed posed a danger to passenger aircraft

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby KBDagha » 02 Feb 2016 10:32


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby KBDagha » 02 Feb 2016 10:34

Boost to Make in India: HAL Rolls-out HTT-40 Prototype

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... 257448.ece

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 03 Feb 2016 08:58

There is absence of determined push in IAF to induct DIRCM, towed decoys and Sat Comm in the aircraft and helos while there is so much interest in super costly Rafale and PAKFA. I strongly feel that this neglect will come to bite us in the @ss, similar to lack of across the board flare dispensers during Kargil.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 03 Feb 2016 23:35

Good to see the HTT-40 rolled out!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby member_29172 » 04 Feb 2016 00:17

Is it necessary to add "Make in India" behind everything? That scheme is meant to kickstart manufacturing in the unorganised sector and areas that traditionally Indian companies haven't been involved in (computer chip manufacturing, mobile phones, heavy engineering materials etc.)

Whatever HAL makes will be make in India by definition, given that it's an Indian company.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 05 Feb 2016 11:36

Copying NRaoji's post from the India-US thread -


With Eye On China, India Seeks 100 Armed Drones From US

All India | Press Trust of India

Image

WASHINGTON: India has sought from the US 100 latest unmanned aerial vehicles, both armed and surveillance versions, worth USD 2 billion to bolster its arsenal amid recurring incursions by Chinese troops.

Industry sources familiar with New Delhi's interest and ongoing talks between the two governments, said that India is interested in the latest Avenger drones, which is basically an unmanned combat air vehicle, and is mainly being sought with an eye on China.

India had requested for the latest Avenger drones, which is basically an unmanned combat air vehicle, and is mainly being sought after, with an eye on China. It has also sought Predator XP category which is a surveillance version for internal security issues and terrorist threats.

Image

US' General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc's Predator-series Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) - C-Avenger Drone

However, while talks in this regard have accelerated in the past few months, the United States has not made any formal commitment or given a public indication pending India's application to joining Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR).

Italy, which is upset with New Delhi for the arrest of its marines, appears to have currently blocked India becoming a member of MTCR.

However, both Indian and US officials are confident that they would be able to get through the last hurdle in the next few months, thus making them possible to take the defence trade - which would include armed drones - to the next level.

"Yes, General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc is aware of India's interest in Predator-series Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA)," Vivek Lall, chief executive of the US and International Strategic Development of General Atomics told news agency PTI.

General Atomics Aeronautical Systems produces Predator series of remotely piloted aircraft.

Image

"Due to US export laws, the US government has to approve the export of a Predator-series RPA to the Indian government.

GA-ASI remains very encouraged by the recent India-US bilateral engagements at the highest levels and we are hopeful that we can play an important supporting role in these discussions," he said.

"Predator-series RPA could provide a world-class Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) capability for India which would include both high-definition radar and Electro-optical/Infrared (EO/IR) coverage along India's borders," Mr Lall said in response to a question.

Additionally, the RPA can perform humanitarian aid/disaster relief surveillance over both land and sea, said Lall, who had previously played a key role in US sale of high tech military assets to India during his stint at Boeing.

Mr Lall gave positive indication of General Atomics' interest in the path breaking DTTI and Narendra Modi government's 'Make in India' initiative.

"GA-ASI is very interested in opportunities to work with new international industrial partners. We focus on identifying those opportunities that leverage the strengths and growth capabilities of new partners to enhance the already impressive capabilities delivered by Predator-series RPA," Mr Lall said.

Predator-series RPA provide a highly reliable, cost-effective ISR capability that is fully inter-operable with US forces and US military platforms in the Indian military's aircraft inventory, he said.

The aircraft can perform wide-area surveillance along India's extensive terrestrial and marine borders, he added. "Extremely safe and reliable, Predator-series RPA have been updated with state-of-the-art technologies, including an automatic takeoff and landing capability, redundant flight control surfaces, enhanced avionics, and triple-redundant flight control computers," Mr Lall said.

Noting that GA-ASI also is committed to developing a Detect and Avoid (DAA) capability for its RPA, Mr Lall said the company is currently developing a DAA system, enabling it to successfully detect and avoid cooperative and non-cooperative aircraft.

"It has most recently accomplished the task during a series of flight tests conducted in conjunction with the FAA and NASA," he said.

According to Mr Lall, Predator-series RPA may be integrated with multiple ISR sensors, including state-of-the-art EO / IR cameras and GA-ASI's Lynx Multi-mode Radar which features a state-of-the-art Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) mode that offers all-weather, day/night performance for a wide-area search capability.

Its Ground Moving Target Indicator (GMTI) mode provides a quick and easy method for locating moving vehicles, he said. The radar's Maritime Wide Area Search (MWAS) mode provides the capability to complete a variety of maritime missions successfully, including coastal surveillance, long-range surveillance, small target detection, and search and rescue operations.

"Predator-series RPA also are equipped with an Automatic Identification System (AIS) for identifying vessels at sea. Other sensors may be integrated at the customer's request," Mr Lall said.

"Additionally, Predator-series RPA are equipped with both Line-of-Sight (LOS) and Beyond-Line-of-Sight (BLOS) data link systems for over-the-horizon operations. The ability to be flown from remote locations precludes the need for a large logistics footprint at forward operating bases," he said.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 05 Feb 2016 11:40

Follows up a previous story in Bloomberg press -

India Seeks Armed Drones From U.S. in Challenge to Pakistan

India is vying to become one of the first countries to import armed Predator Avenger drones from the U.S., a move that would allow it to remotely drop a bomb on any square inch of Pakistan.
The unmanned aircraft manufactured by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc. are sleek, fast, killing machines. From New Delhi they could hunt militants across Pakistan, and become a strategic consideration in border standoffs with China.

If approved, the drones would be another sign of the growing defense ties between Washington and New Delhi: India was the second-largest buyer of U.S. arms in 2014, up from virtually nothing five years ago. The Avengers also represent a small but significant tilt in the strategic dynamics of a region with three nuclear powers and about 40 percent of the world’s population.

"It’s actually quite amazing how quickly the Indian-U.S. relations have developed," said Siemon Wezeman, a researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, a group that monitors arms transfers. “Within a few years India has embraced U.S. weapons” and America is now “supplying India with very advanced military technology," he said.

On Sept. 22, the U.S. in a statement backed India’s membership in the Missile Technology Control Regime, a prerequisite for buying the drones. Two days later, India’s Air Force sent a letter to San Diego-based General Atomics saying it wanted to purchase the Avenger, according to a copy seen by Bloomberg. Air Force officials declined to comment on the letter.

That suggestion alone is enough to raise tensions between India and Pakistan, which have fought four wars in the past and are home to the world’s fastest growing nuclear arsenals since 2010. The Avengers can fly for 18 hours, carry 3,500 pounds of munitions and reach an altitude of 50,000 feet.

“The drones, which can reach anywhere in Pakistan, obviously can create, can heighten the tensions, and increase the risk of a conflagration," said Talat Masood, a retired lieutenant general and an Islamabad-based defense analyst.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 05 Feb 2016 12:28

Why just buy? We should demand a JV for the same for producing the same in India. If the numbers are 100+,and surely they will go up in course of time,we will need ultra-LR drones being developed and in the pipeline abroad which can stay aloft for days .Our efforts at UAV/UCAV development have been going on for years with miniscule results. It's past time to take a short-cut and enter into a JV with an OEM for the same.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 05 Feb 2016 15:49

The sort of drones you would require to stay aloft for days are different from these. Depends on the exact number of 'days' of course, but designing a combat drone capable of doing both ISR and light strike, and perhaps penetrative light strike would be cost-prohibitive if designed with 'days' of loiter time in mind. Not to mention that it would most likely be technically challenging at the very least. The global Hawk with the Triton and the USAF/NATO configuration can already loiter for 24 hours or more and Northrop Grumman in the past indicated that there will be some internal changes required (no design change) to boost that up even further through IFR. At least the Global Hawk family will at some point (possibly in the short-medium term) get IFR capability while the attack drones may take a while.

That said, I don't see anything happening on this while Obama is in the White House. The current administration has shown little intention to actually move forward with the export policy policy for UAV/UCAV's and has been slow to move on implementing common sense policy amendments as suggested by the Congress to help the RPA community export its wares...The next administration, regardless of whether its democrat or republican will most likely be willing to move a lot faster and possibly amend the policy. Past, current and potential future Secretaries of Defense and other potential policy portfolio holders (such as Gates, Carter, Flournoy, Noonan, Colby..)have all at some point in time supported changes to make these aircraft more exportable.

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Aditya G » 05 Feb 2016 19:00

Why are we sending unsolicitated requests to US for arms? Is it even possible to buy US drones without signing CISMOA and likes? Recently there was a news about ordering Heron TP - it makes sense to buy more units of the same.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 05 Feb 2016 19:29

Aditya G wrote:Why are we sending unsolicitated requests to US for arms? Is it even possible to buy US drones without signing CISMOA and likes? Recently there was a news about ordering Heron TP - it makes sense to buy more units of the same.


On Sept. 22, the U.S. in a statement backed India’s membership in the Missile Technology Control Regime, a prerequisite for buying the drones. Two days later, India’s Air Force sent a letter to San Diego-based General Atomics saying it wanted to purchase the Avenger, according to a copy seen by Bloomberg. Air Force officials declined to comment on the letter.

There is likely to have been backchannel dialogue between the MOD, and the US DOD, leading up to the letter sent to GA since as per US's own policy there is only one route to export sensitive military UAV technology or sub-systems and that is through FMS (No commercial sale is allowed). CISMOA will most likely not hold a UAV/UCAV proposal just like it didn't with an armed AH-64E, or an armed P-8I, however MTCR is more important in this context. However, this is still unlikely to happen anytime soon if at all since there are still quite a few changes required in the drone policy that the current state-department is unwilling to make.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 05 Feb 2016 20:30

Aditya G wrote:Why are we sending unsolicitated requests to US for arms? Is it even possible to buy US drones without signing CISMOA and likes? Recently there was a news about ordering Heron TP - it makes sense to buy more units of the same.

An armed Heron TP is useful as a Reaper-substitute. But like the Reaper, its best suited for low intensity COIN-type conflicts i.e where an aerial threat doesn't exist. The Avenger is a different cup of tea. While not offering the broadband stealth of the X-45 & X-47, its still more than stealthy enough to be survivable in a hot war situation and carry out high-risk (read: cross-border) recce missions in peacetime.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 05 Feb 2016 20:35

brar_w wrote:However, this is still unlikely to happen anytime soon if at all since there are still quite a few changes required in the drone policy that the current state-department is unwilling to make.

The MQ-9, also a UCAV, is in service with half a dozen export customers while the Avenger was being marketed to Canada. Pending the MTCR accession, I don't see any political or bureaucratic opposition to a sale to India.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 05 Feb 2016 20:37

If the US can give TOW-2As to blunt Cold Start and stop T-90s.. principle wise, whats the big deal in giving India a few Avengers?
AMRAAMs and JDAMS in bulk vs IAF.. Taliban sure have aircraft.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 05 Feb 2016 20:54

Viv S wrote:
brar_w wrote:However, this is still unlikely to happen anytime soon if at all since there are still quite a few changes required in the drone policy that the current state-department is unwilling to make.

The MQ-9, also a UCAV, is in service with half a dozen export customers while the Avenger was being marketed to Canada. Pending the MTCR accession, I don't see any political or bureaucratic opposition to a sale to India.


There are specific DOS considerations within the policy that must be amended to make the aircraft more attractive to potential customers and these have been suggested on many fronts including the DOD within the current establishment. Now, it could very well be that the new policy does address those considerations by either making them more palatable or by simply making them too vague to bother any potential end user, but we are not privy to the classified elements of that policy that are shared with potential export customers. MTCR is the first hurdle, beyond that is a matter of political acceptance by the buyer and the seller.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2015/02/237541.htm

From AvWeek's coverage of the new export policy -

Knowing that it has to get ahead to stay ahead, President Barack Obama’s administration is finally taking tentative, hesitant steps toward outlining how U.S. companies can export major UAV systems to allied governments around the world.

The “U.S. Export Policy for Military Unmanned Aerial Systems,” announced Feb. 17 in broad terms, comes after years of internal deliberations about how to allow and even encourage export opportunities for a relatively new and consequential class of weapon system.

“U.S. export policy will determine, to a certain extent, which states acquire what types of armed drones, and will set expectations about appropriate exports by other armed drone producers,” say analysts at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.

UAVs have proven powerful in both what they have done for America in its post-9/11 conflicts, as well as for the prospects of future business they could deliver to an industry eager to offer the technology abroad as a new revenue stream. But arms sales critics and human rights activists—many of whom are generally more aligned with the administration—remain concerned about UAV proliferation.

“The sale of this technology is controversial for its potential to be used unlawfully, either for surveillance, as force against the populations of purchasing countries, or against other countries in ‘self-defense,’ as the U.S. has done,” CFR analysts say.
Nevertheless, the policy guidance could boost companies such as Northrop Grumman, which offers the iconic Global Hawk line of airliner-size intelligence-gathering UAVs, or General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, which helped father the modern weapon system and is well known for its Predator class.

But first, Washington has to hammer out more details, as well as educate allies and industry more broadly—despite competing concerns not to trumpet the move. A Feb. 17 “fact sheet” from the State Department simply announced, “the United States has established a new policy designed specifically for U.S.-origin military and commercial UAS.” Details were not publicized, and above all, the U.S. still must work with other countries to adopt similar standards of the sale, transfer and subsequent use for military UAS.

According to the State Department, the export policy lays down “standards” by which the U.S. will assess potential exports of military UAS, including armed systems. Potential sales will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis under the U.S. Conventional Arms Transfer Policy, and only for government-to-government Foreign Military Sales. Each will go through the Defense Department’s Technology Security scrubbing and Foreign Disclosure processes, with recipient nations expected to agree to assurances as a condition of sale or transfer. That includes end-use monitoring and potential additional—albeit unspecified—security conditions, as well as agreement over principles for proper use of UAVs, including honoring humanitarian law and lawful employment of the technology.

“The new U.S. UAS export policy provides a disciplined and rigorous framework within which the United States will exercise restraint in sales and transfers and advance its national security and foreign policy interests, which includes enhancing the operational capabilities and capacity of trusted partner nations, increasing U.S. interoperability with these partners for coalition operations, ensuring responsible use of these systems, and easing the stress on U.S. force structure for these capabilities,” State officials asserted.

“It also ensures appropriate participation for U.S. industry in the emerging commercial UAS market, which will contribute to the health of the U.S. industrial base, and thus to U.S. national security, which includes economic security,” they added.

Capital Alpha Partners analyst Byron Callan says the policy’s timing is noteworthy coming a day before the start of Aero India, a major aerospace and defense trade show in Bengaluru. Large UAV markets could include India, Indonesia, Middle East countries and Latin America. “We don’t have a ready estimate of the size of these markets but suspect it’s in the dozens of systems that the U.S. could address,” he says. “Clearly though, this will be competitive.”

Northrop Grumman CEO Wesley Bush has called for Washington to help, and this month marks the second anniversary of the announcement that the United Arab Emirates (UAE) would acquire its first Predator XP, an advanced derivative of the MQ-1 system.

“Though the U.S. remains the lead actor in terms of possession and using armed drones, the rest of the world is quickly catching up,” CFR analysts wrote in a report last year. “Russia, China, Iran, South Korea and Taiwan, for example, have begun to develop increasingly sophisticated indigenous drone capabilities. Other countries, including Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, have publicized their intent to purchase them.

The administration was known to be working on a new policy (AW&ST Feb. 24, 2014, p. 22). A year ago, Andrew Shapiro—who had been the longest-serving assistant secretary of state for political-military affairs until his departure in 2013—said in a speech to an aerospace and defense conference on Wall Street that Washington was aware of the business potential. But several tough questions remained for policy makers. “There is great demand from our partners for UAVs, and it’s really a question not of ‘could we sell?’ but ‘would we sell?’” Shapiro said at the time.

Chief among the challenges is that the U.S. is a leading proponent of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), a voluntary group of dozens of countries that have agreed not to export weapons systems that could proliferate nuclear weapons capabilities. MTCR Category 1 entails UAS that are capable of a range of at least 300 km (186 mi.) and carrying a payload of at least 500 kg (1,102 lb.).

Other issues include the fact that certain UAV-active countries, such as Israel and India, are not party to the MTCR. Then there are human rights concerns, an explicit element of U.S. foreign policy, and how UAVs represent a new realm of capability and affordability that can be used against populations.

State officials said the new policy maintains U.S. commitments under the MTCR, starting with a “strong presumption of denial” against such exports. But MTCR also permits such exports on “rare occasions” that are well justified in terms of the nonproliferation and export-control factors specified in the regime’s guidelines, they noted. Even so, more “The United States is committed to working with other countries to adopt similar standards for the sale, transfer and subsequent use for military UAS,” the officials said.


It is too early to judge whether the new policy has made US export of UAS's more attractive both from a seller's perspective and a buyer's perspective although there were Congressional voices that voiced concerns about the regulations still being too stringent (that could simply be a political thing..but we won't know for a while).

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 06 Feb 2016 16:25


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 08 Feb 2016 00:52

?????

Feb 6, 2016 :: India offers growth for Hawk jet trainer

BAE Systems expects to sell additional batches of Hawk training aircraft to India as work continues between the company and its Indian partners to develop advanced versions of the best-selling jet.

According to BAE Systems' Director of Hawk Aircraft Programmes, Alun Fishburne, these orders will go beyond the 20 aircraft for the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) flying display team, which are currently the subject of ongoing negotiations.

"Demand will be driven from the Indian Air Force," he told IHS Jane's on 2 February. "We expect steady production, more batches. The [IAF is] getting great [training] results from [its] Hawks. It is the most reliable aircraft in its inventory."

.................................

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 08 Feb 2016 00:55

[urlhttp://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/02/russian-aircraft-service-center-soon-in.html]Feb 6, 2016 :: Russian Aircraft Service Center Soon in India[/url]

Whew.


“ASC Aeronautical Equipment, part of the Technodinamika Holding, will open a service centre in India before the end of the first quarter of 2016,” Oleg Vasiliev, CEO of the Aviation Service Center (ASC) Aeronautical Equipment, a member company of the Technodinamika Holding, told RIR..

“This company will be engaged in repairing Russian military vehicles currently operating in India, supplying accessories and ground equipment, and ensuring all aircraft and helicopters have the parts they need. Technodinamika has already concluded long-term agreements for repairs with local operators,” Vasiliev said. In particular, they will repair and maintain components of the Antonov and Ilyushin transport aircraft and Mi series helicopters.

Active work on organizing repair works in India started last year. In early 2015, ASC became accredited with the Indian Air Force, giving it the opportunity to participate in tenders for supply of components and assemblies, as well as maintenance of the Air Force’s aircraft fleet.

“Repair works will be fully localized in India. A joint venture is now being created with the Indian side. Repair and maintenance of aircraft in the service centre will be carried out by local staff who will be trained by our specialists. The centre will be provided by all the necessary repair documentation and, in fact, this will be an Indian company. At the same time, the Air Force will receive guaranteed scheduled repairs and quality at manufacturer prices,” said Vasiliev.

Earlier, the head of Technodinamika Maxim Kuzyuk informed Russian media that such centres would start operating in Peru, China, and several African countries.

Technodinamika (part of the state corporation Rostec) – is a leading developer and manufacturer of equipment for aircraft, including landing gear, fuel systems, flight control systems, and auxiliary power units.

In addition to aircraft equipment, the holding produces parts and components for other industrial sectors such as oil and gas, automotive, transport, and energy.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 08 Feb 2016 00:57

Feb 6, 2015 :: Why HAL Would be Debilitating the IAF with its Combat Hawk

HAL and BAE have plans to co-develop in India a combat variant of the Hawk AJT for use by the Indian Air Force, as also for export to friendly countries.

In May 2015 HAL and BAE Systems UK signed a MoU that included development of Combat Hawk besides upgrade of Hawk Mk132 and maintenance solutions for supporting Jaguar and Hawk fleet.

HAL and BAE Systems discussed the Combat Hawk in London during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to the UK in November 2015.

A BAE Systems' Director of Hawk Aircraft Programs, Alun Fishburne, recently told Janes.com that his company is negotiating sale of additional batches of Hawk training aircraft to India, beyond the order for 20 Hawk Mk.132s for the IAF's Surya Kiran team currently being finalized.

The BAE official's reference to additional batches suggests that Indian procurement would go beyond attrition replacements.

HAL and BAE's enthusiasm notwithstanding, the project to co-develop the Combat Hawk makes no operational sense.

As a Lead In Fighter Trainer (LIFT), the Hawk Mk132 is already capable of carrying a wide variety of external stores for weapon release training. The aircraft reportedly has 7 hard points to carry external stores with a possible 12 types of combinations to carry the stores.

The proposed Combat Hawk will likely feature:


An advanced weapon aiming subsystem
Tighter integration of the weapons and cockpit avionics
An integral gun



Other possible feature could include:


A laser rangefinder for more accurate weapon delivery
A TV camera for easier identification of targets
Close Combat Missiles
A refueling probe



Considering that the Hawk is a single engine aircraft with a low thrust to weight ratio (0.65) the Combat Hawk would at best be a counter insurgency (CI) aircraft.

The problem is, the IAF has no need for a CI aircraft! The IAF is not tasked for CI ops and has shied away from the role in past and ongoing insurgencies, with good reason.

What the IAF needs is a dedicated Close Air Support (CAS) aircraft capable of operating in the mountains along the LoC and LAC. A dedicated CAS aircraft needs the safety of two engines, a design optimized for absorbing punishing ground fire, a titanium bathtub to ensure crew safety, a high T/W ratio to ensure good maneuverability in narrow valleys at high altitudes, and adequate Suppression of Enemy Defense (SEAD) capability. The Combat Hawk will have none of these features.

Yes, the IAF has no need for the Combat Hawk. As to export...really?

Clearly, the Combat Hawk is being pushed by HAL for self serving reasons. HAL has stabilized local assembly of the Hawk after a lot of struggle. Additional IAF Hawk orders would ensure easy profits for the very inefficient public sector behemoth for many years running. Despite having struggled with just the local assembly of Hawk Mk132, HAL is disingenuously projecting Combat Hawk as the next big Make-in-India success story.

Mislead by the HAL, the government may well go along with the Combat Hawk project, since it would also keep the UK happy. If that happens, it would be a case of diplomacy dictating defense capability, not the other way around, as it should be!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby VinodTK » 08 Feb 2016 06:27

IAF pilots pop pills to get fighting edge
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'Go/No-Go' pills. And they are said to pack quite a punch. IAF fighter pilots are now increasingly using these "authorised" pills to boost alertness levels and cognitive powers as well as fight fatigue and sleep deprivation during round-the-clock combat exercises as well as long-range sorties designed to hone war-fighting skills.

The 'Go' pill is Modafinil, which has gained currency in military aviation circles around the world for its alertness-enhancing and fatigue-managing properties. The 'No-Go' pill is Zolpidem, a sedative used to treat insomnia.

In the works for the last three to four years, these pills were used extensively in the highvoltage 'Livewire' exercise conducted by IAF from October 31 to November 8, which saw the "activation" of all its 54 airbases across the country.

From fighter and helicopter pilots to air traffic controllers and even the top brass, the Go/No-Go pills were used to "good effect" during Livewire, which was designed to test both offensive and defensive capabilities for a two-front war contingency with "swing forces" being rapidly moved from the western theatre to the eastern one, and vice-versa. "It was a 24x7 exercise to stimulate a war, which requires high adrenaline levels and the ability to push the envelope.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 09 Feb 2016 04:36

Ajai Shukla- HTT-40 rolls out - fully built by HAL


By Ajai Shukla


Business Standard, 3rd Feb 2016

In an important milestone for Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), its new basic trainer aircraft, the Hindustan Turbo Trainer – 40 (HTT-40) rolled out for the first time from the hangar where it was built and began preparations for its first flight, later this month.

For years, the Indian Air Force (IAF) flatly opposed the HTT-40 project, demanding the defence ministry scrap it. In its place, the IAF wanted to import over a hundred new trainers from Swiss company, Pilatus, to supplement the 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mark II trainers it had already bought.

The IAF repeatedly told the ministry the HTT-40 would be over-weight, over-priced and under-performing. But HAL doggedly continued development, committing more than Rs 350 crore of company funds.

Given this history, there was jubilation amongst the HTT-40 design team as their first prototype, fully designed in India, rolled out of the hangar with all its lights flashing and its cockpit powered on. “The project has managed to steer through the initial headwinds and now is going full throttle,” said T Suvarna Raju, the HAL chief.

An HAL media release on Tuesday noted: “The team composition of HTT-40 is the youngest ever on any prototype program in HAL.”

The IAF, now convinced about the HTT-40’s viability, wants to take charge of the project. However HAL, in a demonstration of confidence, insists on funding and controlling the project until the trainer takes to the skies.

After that, the HTT-40 will be overseen by an “integrated project management team” (IPMT), headed by Air Marshal Rajesh Kumar, who attended the rollout. ...


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 09 Feb 2016 08:58

Good to see the progress on the HTT 40 programme. Hope it works out.

A word of caution, the timelines are once again aggressive and to me sound ambitious. I hope they have a carefully worked out plan to forecast such a timeline.

From the linked article

...
If all goes according to plan, the HTT-40 will complete its flight test programme in two years, and be inducted into the IAF from 2018. HAL tells Business Standard that the HTT-40 production line will build two trainers in 2018, eight in 2019, and reach its capacity of 20 per year from 2020 onwards.
...


"If all goes according to plan..." I guess means they do not encounter any design problems. Hence, I assume, the schedule of testing, certification and manufacturing of 02 aircraft is 02 years from now.

2018 induction in IAF is seriously wow given that it is Feb 2016 roll out and the engine integration tests are about to commence. Even if this becomes FY 18-19, that is a three year window to induction after trials, testing and certification given that no flaws are encountered. Even this is very good.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 09 Feb 2016 09:00

deejay wrote:If all goes according to plan, the HTT-40 will complete its flight test programme in two years, and be inducted into the IAF from 2018. HAL tells Business Standard that the HTT-40 production line will build two trainers in 2018, eight in 2019, and reach its capacity of 20 per year from 2020 onwards.
...


"If all goes according to plan..." I guess means they do not encounter any design problems. Hence, I assume, the schedule of testing, certification and manufacturing of 02 aircraft is 02 years from now.

2018 induction in IAF is seriously wow given that it is Feb 2016 roll out and the engine integration tests are about to commence. Even if this becomes FY 18-19, that is a three year window to induction after trials, testing and certification given that no flaws are encountered. Even this is very good.[/quote]
This time luck will be with us, I am sure

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 09 Feb 2016 13:09

Clearly, the Combat Hawk is being pushed by HAL for self serving reasons. HAL has stabilized local assembly of the Hawk after a lot of struggle. Additional IAF Hawk orders would ensure easy profits for the very inefficient public sector behemoth for many years running. Despite having struggled with just the local assembly of Hawk Mk132, HAL is disingenuously projecting Combat Hawk as the next big Make-in-India success story.

Mislead by the HAL, the government may well go along with the Combat Hawk project, since it would also keep the UK happy. If that happens, it would be a case of diplomacy dictating defense capability, not the other way around, as it should be!


With hundreds of MIG-21s and MIG-27s being phased out ,which in the past were doing CAS duties,what will the IAF use when called upon by the IA? B*ggre all! There is no dedicated CAS aircraft on the horizon unlike the SU-25 and A-10 in the majors' inventories,still flying and doing yeoman service in various conflicts. The USAF has now tasked this mundane task to the JSF of all aircraft.Uber-expensive and fragile which could be brought down by humble bullets. One would've thought that some of our "200 LCAs" which APJAK promised way back in 2003,to be in service by 2010,would've done the businessbut this gaping hole in our capabilities has to be plugged.

How? The IAF refuses to allow the IA to take over the attack helos carte blanche. It also does not want any "mini air forces" to emerge,thus trying to veto the IA from acquiring combat capable aircraft for CAS/COIN. Supporting ground troops is the least exciting job for the IAF one must imagine,why there has been the least priority for this capability.Past conflicts with Pak have shown some friction with the IA on this score.When in action,results have been splendid! If the combat Hawk is thus incapable of doing the business,and is being touted by HAL simply to keep the factory humming with "easy profits",then the search must be made for such a bird,either in IAF colours or IA colours,keeping in mind that attack helos like the Apache have suffered losses from combat experience in Afghanistan,etc. in recent times from small arms fire,RGs,MANPADS.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bala Vignesh » 09 Feb 2016 18:28

From concept to prototype in 3 years and induction in a total of 5 years is very interesting and aggressive of HAL!!! Looks like they want to shed their old image and come out like Phoenix..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 09 Feb 2016 18:53

Bala Vignesh wrote:From concept to prototype in 3 years and induction in a total of 5 years is very interesting and aggressive of HAL!!! Looks like they want to shed their old image and come out like Phoenix..


I think, IIRC, the lead designer - a young Indian - had done extensive work on this during his higher studies in the UK. I hope I am not mixing him with someone else. BUT, if that recollection is true, then he had a very good lead. And, a ton of confidence.

Either way good for him. Indians need such projects to silence those that lack confidence and hide behind the skirts of history.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 10 Feb 2016 04:06

Bala Vignesh wrote:From concept to prototype in 3 years and induction in a total of 5 years is very interesting and aggressive of HAL!!! Looks like they want to shed their old image and come out like Phoenix..


From what I could gather, HTT-40 has been done in a modern way where complete design is undertaken with CAD along with extensive CFD and wind tunnel analysis/refinements as well as independent QA/verification of LRUs on various rigs. Also, I am assuming HAL is trying out "designed for production" approach bypassing the traditional TD/PV/LSP path.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 12 Feb 2016 04:28

Kartik wrote:Ajai Shukla- HTT-40 rolls out - fully built by HAL

...

The IAF repeatedly told the ministry the HTT-40 would be over-weight, over-priced and under-performing. But HAL doggedly continued development, committing more than Rs 350 crore of company funds.
...

The IAF, now convinced about the HTT-40’s viability, wants to take charge of the project. However HAL, in a demonstration of confidence, insists on funding and controlling the project until the trainer takes to the skies.

After that, the HTT-40 will be overseen by an “integrated project management team” (IPMT), headed by Air Marshal Rajesh Kumar, who attended the rollout. ...

...
If all goes according to plan, the HTT-40 will complete its flight test programme in two years, and be inducted into the IAF from 2018. HAL tells Business Standard that the HTT-40 production line will build two trainers in 2018, eight in 2019, and reach its capacity of 20 per year from 2020 onwards.
...


One wonders how much the IAF was involved during the HTT-40 R&D phase? We mostly only heard the IAF was trying to kill the project in favor of PC-7. Like the LCA, will there be a myriad of changes requested by the IAF once it moves to IPMT oversight? If so, there is no way HTT-40 will be inducted into the IAF in two years time frame.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 12 Feb 2016 04:39

HAL finally rolls out HTT-40 prototype

...

HAL noted in May last year that the design of the HTT-40 was revised to accommodate the selection of a new engine—the Honeywell TPE331-12B. The company also said that this is the first Indian aircraft to be completely designed and manufactured from a digital mock-up, and also by using laser-tracked jigs at the prototype phase. Of the 90 line-replaceable units (LRUs) on the aircraft, 70 have been sourced from sister divisions of HAL.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 12 Feb 2016 06:57

srai wrote:
One wonders how much the IAF was involved during the HTT-40 R&D phase? We mostly only heard the IAF was trying to kill the project in favor of PC-7. Like the LCA, will there be a myriad of changes requested by the IAF once it moves to IPMT oversight? If so, there is no way HTT-40 will be inducted into the IAF in two years time frame.

The IAF has not been involved. Even in Aero India 2013 a young HAL engineer said that this was a HAL project in response to a projected requirement. If all goes well the HTT-40 will be superior to the Pilatus.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 12 Feb 2016 07:00

HAL should seriously stop talking about deadlines and should vigorously deny if DDM tries to propagate any optimistic timeline in media.

They said the same stuff for LCH, when it flew in 2010 their FOC timeline was ~2014. Same was said about IJT.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby kvraghavaiah » 12 Feb 2016 11:04

LUH is supposed to fly in 2015. Now the revised deadline is Feb-2016. I saw some small helicopter similar to LUH flying in bengaluru over HAL airport on 11-Feb-2016. But, not sure if it is LUH. Is there any chaiwala or panwala news.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby arun » 13 Feb 2016 07:01

India likely to acquire 164 Litening 5 targetting pods and an unspecified number of Spice 250 standoff glide bombs to equip the Su-30 MKI fleet from Israel:

Rafael anticipates Litening, Spice deal with India

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 15 Feb 2016 03:43

Feb 13, 2016 :: Cloudy Future for Domestic Indian Aircraft Production

NEW DELHI — India's quest to build fighter jets through its "Make in India" industry initiative may not be realistic in the near future due to a financial crunch and the lack of in-house building capability, forcing continued reliance on imports, said officials and defense analysts.

The government wants to build over 250 fighters in the next 20 years at a cost of more than $200 billion, which will cover life-cycle cost as well, said an Indian Defence Ministry source.

India is yet to sign the contract to purchase 36 Rafale aircraft from France. Moreover, the serial production of the home-grown Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mark-1 cannot achieve its operational clearance without foreign support. The co-development and joint production of Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia faces delays, and there is no clarity on the status of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

According to Air Force projections, fighter aircraft strength is down to 25 squadrons as against the required strength of 45 squadrons. In addition, 14 squadrons equipped with Russian-made MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters will be phased out by 2024.

"We are not sure if we will be satisfied with only 36 Rafale fighters and there is also uncertainty when 120 LCA Mark-1 will be inducted," said the Air Force official. "We certainly need additional Rafale fighters to boost the fighter strength. With the slow pace of fighter inductions, IAF will need at least two decades to attain its authorized fighter strength of 45 squadrons," he added.

Another Air Force official said the government must decide if it would opt for more Rafale fighters or jointly produce single-engine LCA aircraft and accelerate the FGFA project with Russia.

The official noted that by 2032, the Air Force must have 810 fighters or 45 squadrons. The service eventually will have to induct a few dozen squadrons of UAVs to meet threats from both the East and West.

Analysts are unclear how India would meet such an ambitious target.

The domestic private industry is still not mature enough to produce LCA Mark-1 or Mark-2 aircraft plus the AMCA because the supply chain is still developing. Funding worries and political disputes could prevent adequate resources from supporting the huge funds for the homegrown AMCA, said Anil Arora, retired Air Force wing commander and member of Defense Consultants Society of India.

"India will mitigate the risk by either giving repeat orders to France for additional Rafale aircraft or reconsider the fresh offer from any country wanting to make fighters in India," Arora said. Both options for a medium combat aircraft, whether made in India or foreign produced, will be kept open, Arora said.

However, retired Air Marshal Subhash Bojwani said, "I think the question assumes that AMCA will be an unqualified success, thus closing the door on medium fighters from overseas vendors. At this stage, even before the blueprints are far from complete and first AMCA metal is yet to be cut, it's totally premature to guess what might happen in this regard."

Arora asked: "Where are the final specs of LCA Mark-2 and what is the weaponization scheme of LCA Mark-2 as compared to LCA Mark-1. How much of LCA Mark-1 is Indian as of today?"

LCA Mark-2 may be allocated to the private sector due to a shortage of funds. Can India depend on state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics for LCA Mark- 2 and wait for another 30 years, asked Arora.

Bhojwani said, "My wish list would include a mixture of manned and unmanned combat aircraft with the latter being employed for the more hazardous missions. If AMCA makes the cut I would be happy to have it on my inventory of manned aircraft. "

A senior executive of a private sector defense company, who requested not to be named, said, "If funds are available with the government then LCA Mark-2 will see the light of the day in 20 years. One more option of the public-private-partnership model would be a better idea to boost the Indian Industry. The LCA Mark- 2 will be successful if India gets some export orders, in addition to IAF requirements and a new joint venture [with overseas help] will have to be created which gets the strategic partnership for this project."

Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 16 Feb 2016 09:06

MP has just said that 100+ LCAs are on order.Therefore I don't see the pic cloudy at all.Even with upgrades of M2ks,29s and MKI orders (though more expensive than buying them from Russia),there's huge scope.At least 200+ fighter/strike aircraft required.If there is some finality on the LTA and another attempt to kickstart the MTA,the transport sector will also get a boost.This excludes whatever happens to the FGFA and the strangely silent Jag upgrade of another 100+ aircraft.


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