Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 24 Mar 2016 10:47

Sid wrote:LCA dropped Griffin while Su dropped Paveway. LCA must have used weapon kit from its test program.

I don't think Su-30MKI has been mated with Paveway-2.

This is what it seems to be based on public info on which LGB integrations have taken place:
  • Paveway-2 -> Jaguar, Mirage-2000, LCA
  • Griffin-3 -> Su-30MKI, LCA

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JTull » 24 Mar 2016 14:17

ramana wrote:Ok. So SU 30 dropped Griffin which was mated to HSLD. and LCA dropped Paveway both missed.
Interesting that both firang maal didn't work but desi LCA plane got calumny!!!

Deep runs the psy-ops.


Imagine the wailing if the desi Sudashan kit was used!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 24 Mar 2016 18:16

srai wrote:
Sid wrote:LCA dropped Griffin while Su dropped Paveway. LCA must have used weapon kit from its test program.

I don't think Su-30MKI has been mated with Paveway-2.

This is what it seems to be based on public info on which LGB integrations have taken place:
  • Paveway-2 -> Jaguar, Mirage-2000, LCA
  • Griffin-3 -> Su-30MKI, LCA


Griffin is also available on IAF Jaguar, I just could not trace Paveway info on MKI.

Maybe Deejay can shed some light on it.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby nirav » 24 Mar 2016 18:55

ramana wrote:Ok. So SU 30 dropped Griffin which was mated to HSLD. and LCA dropped Paveway both missed.
Interesting that both firang maal didn't work but desi LCA plane got calumny!!!

Deep runs the psy-ops.


There were 2 separate strikes by Sukhois. The LGB and HSLD.
HSLD crashed right onto target and obliterated it. How the HSLD were guided was not mentioned.

Target 9 was for the Sukhoi LGB strike which missed.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2016 20:00

OSA SAM hits target (not Iron Fist 2016)
https://youtu.be/M-T7gaI2fHA
Last edited by shiv on 24 Mar 2016 20:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 24 Mar 2016 20:01

Sid wrote:...
Griffin is also available on IAF Jaguar, I just could not trace Paveway info on MKI.

Maybe Deejay can shed some light on it.


No info on this saar.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2016 20:25

If on the previous day all the strikes were successful, yet on the FPD due to bad weather only the jaguar hit, the Mirage was cancelled.
Wonder if the Su and LCA had clear sighting of target through the bad weather?

Maybe in hindsight should have been postponed?
But then huge hulla/gulla would rise for the not releasing the LGBs!

Hope no lafada was there.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2016 08:30

ramana wrote:Maybe in hindsight should have been postponed?
But then huge hulla/gulla would rise for the not releasing the LGBs!

Hope no lafada was there.

ramana the hulla gulla is only because more and more people now see these things online. I have recordings of firepower demonstrations since 1989 including Vayushaktis and Iron Fists. Misses are not uncommon and I think even the public should know that misses can occur, hulla gulla or no hulla gulla.

If the idea is to simply give people some tamasha - then the thing to do is to rig the targets with explosive like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHV_I47uSHQ

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 25 Mar 2016 09:27

in the good old days we have a half dozen planes coming in low and fast, in a tight pack and releasing napalm...nothing beats that.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 25 Mar 2016 10:44

I remember Helos missing static tank targets intended to be hit with ATGMs

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shaun » 25 Mar 2016 11:08

shiv wrote:If the idea is to simply give people some tamasha - then the thing to do is to rig the targets with explosive like this

That's exactly what i said before :) Live action pact sequence and missing targets don't go hand in hand .

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 26 Mar 2016 03:50

not sure if I want to re-ignite the discussion on the Combat Hawk program proposed by BAe and HAL, but found an article that gave a little more info on the plans being made by BAe and HAL for this program.


Indian Interest Driving Combat Hawk Developments



Aviation Week & Space Technology Feb 12, 2016

Tony Osborne Warton, England








BAE Systems is looking at giving its Hawk jet trainer a second lease on life as a light attack aircraft.

The British company wants to build on the success of the latest version of the aircraft and give it a redesigned wing, a new cockpit layout and the ability to drop precision-guided bombs and fire missiles.

It is perhaps a trend for all jet trainers to become light attack aircraft at some point during their careers, and the Hawk is no stranger to this. During the 1980s, BAE independently developed the single-seat radar-equipped Hawk 200 and sold the type to Indonesia, Malaysia and Oman. And most Hawks can carry unguided rockets and bombs.

The new Combat Hawk, however, would evolve from the new-generation Hawk originally developed for the U.K. Royal Air Force, and now in production for Saudi Arabia and Oman.




Rapid turnaround times and the ability to drop precision-guided munitions are capabilities being eyed for a new combat Hawk. Credit: BAE Systems

Impetus for the new version is being driven by interest from India. Last year, Hindustan Aeronautics and BAE Systems agreed to study the development of an armed Hawk that could be built in-country. The Indian press has widely reported that the country is facing a shortage of both combat aircraft and the pilots to fly them, and it is envisaged that a Hawk offering could help to fill that gap faster than traditional combat aircraft programs.

Key to the upcoming version would be a new leading-edge slatted wing, models of which the company has tested in a wind tunnel. The new wing would help to better match the performance of the wing to the Rolls-Royce Adour Mk.951, Chris Clarkson, engineering director on the Hawk program, tells Aviation Week.

“This new wing would improve turn performance and generate more lift,” says Clarkson, helping to improve the landing performance and help speed up turnaround of the aircraft for the next mission.

The company has previously adopted a slatted wing for the aircraft, on the T-45 Goshawk for the U.S. Navy. “On the T-45, the slatted wing was about slowing down the aircraft to give students more time to think as they landed onboard the carrier,” says Clarkson.

In the cockpit, the company is exploring the potential of a F-35-like single wide-area display. BAE demonstrated a mockup to customers at the Dubai Airshow last year. The aircraft would retain the two-seat configuration, however.

At the air show, BAE Systems’ test and display pilot, John Hurrell, demonstrated the use of the display in an attack scenario and showed how it could be used to help identify targets, in conjunction with a targeting pod. He also suggested that such a layout could be used to eliminate the need for complex menus and submenus in flight training-—pilots can end up spending months learning which buttons to press to carry out particular procedures. The company is even studying a sidestick rather than the central control column usually found in the Hawk.

Models have shown an armed Hawk fitted with Raytheon Paveway IV guided bombs and MBDA’s Brimstone air-to-ground missile, as well as wingtip-mounted air-to-air missiles. A laser designator pod could be installed on the centerline pylon. Defensive aids would also have to be fitted.

The development comes at an interesting time for BAE Systems. Just 18 months ago, executives were pondering whether the Hawk would beat the 1,000-aircraft sales milestone.

Hawk was being touted as BAE and Northrop Grumman’s entry for the U.S. Air Force’s T-X next-generation trainer requirement, but the performance expectations of T-X prompted the team to proceed toward a fresh design, although the training systems developed for the RAF Hawk T2 remain.

Yet, interest in the Hawk has been consistently strong.. Financial statements released by the company late last year revealed Saudi Arabia had determined a need for an additional 22 aircraft on top of the 22 it had already ordered. The company hopes to deliver 14 of the first 22 by the end of 2016.

Expectations of an additional order from India during a visit to the U.K. by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi last November were dashed when the two sides were unable to agree on price, defense officials say. Negotiations are continuing.

And in a surprise move, it has emerged that Jordan has become the latest operator of the Hawk, after the United Arab Emirates donated about a dozen Mk.63 Hawks to support advanced jet training.

“There is still a market for the Hawk,” says Clarkson. “The T-X is not going to be available until [the] 2020s, and for export customers, probably not until a lot later,” he points out.

The Hawk, by comparison, is still a relatively simple aircraft built from aluminum, and many air forces are not yet equipped to make repairs on new materials such as the carbon-fiber construction likely to be used in any new-build trainer, Clarkson suggests.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cosmo_R » 26 Mar 2016 04:53

We just love used cars. The Morris Cowley became the Amby and now the Hawk is somehow the IAF CAS weapon of choice for the next 20 years :)

If HAL are really pushing this, I have no qualms about lumping them with JNU as anti national. :)

In Woody Allen's 'Annie Hall' (1978), the starting meme is about two old Jewish women who each year go to the same resort in the Catskills in NY State. One of them says "The food is terrible". The other one says "Yes, and such small portions too."

The Hawk is a terrible CAS a/c but hey it's cheap.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby fanne » 26 Mar 2016 04:58

what is a light attack fighter - the one that is shot in the first pass at the enemy position or the one where any hit to the aircraft results in the pilot being dead? (as it is light).

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 26 Mar 2016 05:08

Iron Fist 2016 showed Hawks firing rockets. One can assume from that Hawks will be used for combat duties when required.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 06:10

Only a diet of American war news would make people think that we can fight wars like they do. When the crap hits the fan even Kirans will be used. That time the jokes will be so much more funny. "Ha ha ha - IAF sent a pilot in a Kiran and he died after one pass. LOL" If one dead pilot in a light fighter is so funny imagine the barrel of laughs when a Su-30 heavy fighter goes down and two are dead. That would make for an entire thread of jokes.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cosmo_R » 26 Mar 2016 06:37

shiv wrote:Only a diet of American war news would make people think that we can fight wars like they do. When the crap hits the fan even Kirans will be used. That time the jokes will be so much more funny. "Ha ha ha - IAF sent a pilot in a Kiran and he died after one pass. LOL" If one dead pilot in a light fighter is so funny imagine the barrel of laughs when a Su-30 heavy fighter goes down and two are dead. That would make for an entire thread of jokes.


This is why I shake my head when I read about about sending a 'cheap' fighter instead of risking a 'high value' one to do xyz. I don't know how to succinctly express my reaction in milleniellese along the lines of "“We in this bitch, finna get crunk. Eyebrows on fleek, da fuq.”

http://madamenoire.com/518058/how-kayla ... -on-fleek/

My view is that the highest value item is always the pilot. They is us: sons/daughters/brothers/sisters/friends.

We ask them to do a job. We owe them the best platform we can afford that has a long reach and which keeps them out of harm's way as much as possible and does not involve WWII stuff like strafing and close in CAS. No Kirans, HT32/64, Hawks, MiG 27s, DPSAs. No jugaad. Just sensors and shooters we can afford, nukes if that does not work. It's real simple: get an explosive device to explode close to your enemy and very far away from you.

JMT

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 06:57

Cosmo_R wrote:We ask them to do a job. We owe them the best platform we can afford that has a long reach and which keeps them out of harm's way as much as possible and does not involve WWII stuff like strafing and close in CAS. No Kirans, HT32/64, Hawks, MiG 27s, DPSAs. No jugaad. Just sensors and shooters we can afford, nukes if that does not work. It's real simple: get an explosive device to explode close to your enemy and very far away from you.

JMT

Nice. This is what I meant by diet of American war videos - because what you say is exactly what we have seen since Kosovo.

If India is lucky we will get to fight more Kargils. if not we may have a war in which - at the end of 2 weeks 25% of the IAF has been shot down. That is the time the IAF will either be starting to act like NirmaljitSingh Sekhon / Sq Ldr Devayya/ Vikram Batra or act like PAF - that is simply pull out of the war and stay safe. Which would you have them do?

It is a fine idea to mouth platitudes about ideal war situations but one needs to talk about non ideal situations that happen in real life. It is great to say "We should do this. We should get that. We should make sure of this. We should ensure that. We should make this investment. We should We should we should. "

No one can object to that. But what happens in real war is stuff that one does not want. We could then say "Let us not have war" . or we could say "We fill fight with all we have". The IAF will do the latter. Every time. They don't get their inputs from US war videos.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby fanne » 26 Mar 2016 06:58

Wow. If we need a cas plane buy su25 or enhance the mig27

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 26 Mar 2016 06:58

Modern war is about staying power. It means not going bankrupt like GB and losing Empire. It means bringing economical use of force.
Combat Hawk with Laser pod and 3.5 tonnes can.play havoc while LCA gives CAP.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 07:00

fanne wrote:Wow. If we need a cas plane buy su25 or enhance the mig27

Buy a new class of aircraft from Russia

Or enhance the plane with the worst safety record in the IAF

Any more great ideas? YouTube should have some suggestions..just sayin..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 07:19

America, NATO and Russia are to be admired because they teach their people what it means to enter into a war which has been sold to their public as as a "just war" or a necessary war.They start wars or enter ongoing wars with care. India does not do that. We keep saying "We don;t want war" and get forced into wars and the Indian public has no idea about war. Our only input about wars is from US/NATO and now Russian videos and we think that is how war is fought.

The US/NATO and Russia start wars on their terms - going only so far as they can go. they rarely "win". they just fight. But we the Indian public imagine that this is what war is like - not knowing the difference between deliberately selecting a weakling and beating him up and a case of someone who consciously plans to beat you up, after assessing your strengths.

So as time passes, old war American videos become outdated and new war videos appears and accordingly the planning for the IAF on BRF changes based on what we see of a war in which the US/NATO hit some weakling. When we spend inordinate amounts of time accusing the media of being influenced by the west, or accusing sickulars and libtards of being influenced by the west we don't seem to notice how much we are influenced by the information that we are bombarded with and how much ignorance we show of the way in which we have been hit in the past by forces who are our equals or near equal starting wars at a time of their choosing.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 26 Mar 2016 16:51

What can Combat Hawk do which even underpowered Kaveri engine equipped LCA cannot do?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 18:41

Gyan wrote:What can Combat Hawk do which even underpowered Kaveri engine equipped LCA cannot do?

Be exported to turd world nations with low-medium tech air forces where repairs can be carried out on aluminium airframe but not composite.

Can someone fill me in on information that JF 17 will be a far better bet for CAS than Combat Hawk for turdworlders.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby fanne » 26 Mar 2016 18:55

Our ground operations will not be against Talis or isis (that do not have an airforce/SAMs to fight back), it will be against TSP or China. You need a proper CAS plane, not some make do even if it is in service for training. These planes do not come costly but are well protected. I do not know if Mig27 can be augmented with any new Tech (fly by wire?) to improve safety. It had issues in engines mostly (just like Mig 21bs, which was solved when HA/IAF paid enough attention), one should look there also.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 26 Mar 2016 19:00

So HAL is going to assemble Combat Hawk in Bangalore and export them to Delhi?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 26 Mar 2016 19:07

Gyan wrote:What can Combat Hawk do which even underpowered Kaveri engine equipped LCA cannot do?

Nothing. And to top it all, the C-Hawk is not even significantly cheaper.

The whole dedicated CAS aircraft thing... guess what? It only works in US/Russian bush wars. You try that business against a professionally trained foe (and yes both the PA/PAF & PLA/PLAAF fall into that category), and you'll find your $20 mil "Cheap Strike Aircraft" being taken out by a $500K QRSAM, or a $100K MANPAD or just $2K worth of AAA ammo. You want to kill the enemy and survive? You attack from standoff ranges with PGMs.

Now equipping part of the training fleet (piloted by instructors) to double up as a strike jet for sectors where the ADGE has already been reduced.. is fine. But ordering new build Hawks with redesigned wings and what not, is just plain idiocy.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 26 Mar 2016 19:25

shiv wrote:If India is lucky we will get to fight more Kargils. if not we may have a war in which - at the end of 2 weeks 25% of the IAF has been shot down.

You equip 10% of the IAF fleet with Combat Hawks, and at the end of 2 weeks 35% of the IAF will have been shot down.

No one can object to that. But what happens in real war is stuff that one does not want. We could then say "Let us not have war" . or we could say "We fill fight with all we have". The IAF will do the latter. Every time. They don't get their inputs from US war videos.

Its those watching US war videos that swear by the A-10 and would prefer more CHawks to the job cheaply. Because the US war videos never feature US aircraft being blown up mid-air by insurgent forces. It always the poor sod on the ground being vaporized. And people figure (rightly so!) that why use an F-16 to do that when a AJT can so just as well. Or better yet use a turboprop.

Image


In contrast, in India the state's policy is very clear - IAF combat aircraft are NOT to be employed in COIN operations. As for conventional operations, the only thing the PAF would like better than to be pitted against $20 mil 'combat' AJTs, is to be flying against $12 mil BTTs.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 19:47

Gyan wrote:So HAL is going to assemble Combat Hawk in Bangalore and export them to Delhi?

Export to Delhi was a possibility alleged by me launching a huge controversy. Until recently every news item about combat Hawk said it would be for export. Nobody seemed to notice although one person did point out that HAL should concentrate on LCA not Hawk That was when I put a little petrol on fire which led to some interesting forum sparks :D There is no news yet that the IAF is interested

Need to see where combat Hawk goes. But I still think it would be a useful CAS aircraft. These are MY views and nothing has changed them yet. But why not sell to Afghanistan, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Benin, Boputhatswana, Bechuanaland etc? Gotta start somewhere.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 26 Mar 2016 19:51

shiv wrote:Be exported to turd world nations with low-medium tech air forces where repairs can be carried out on aluminium airframe but not composite.

Can someone fill me in on information that JF 17 will be a far better bet for CAS than Combat Hawk for turdworlders.

Yes it will. To start with, the JF-17 also has an aluminium airframe. And if there was a market remaining for Combat Hawks, BAE won't have arrived in Bangalore offering to share profits with HAL. They already have a combat-capable AJT product i.e. Hawk 200, the last of which was delivered to Malaysia some 15 years ago.

BAE Hawk 200

Image
Image
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 19:52

As an export for a low to medium tech air force in the CAS role why would a Combat Hawk be worse than the JF 17 which is being peddled by shitland?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 19:54

Viv S wrote:Yes it will. To start with, the JF-17 also has an aluminium airframe. And if there was a market remaining for Combat Hawks, BAE won't have arrived in Bangalore offering to share profits with HAL. They already have a combat-capable AJT product i.e. Hawk 200, the last of which was delivered to Malaysia some 15 years ago.

BAE Hawk 200

That was air combat. Not ground support. That ugly nose was a radar for interception back in those days. Didn't sell much. But sold a bit. So what? If the new Combat Hawk sells a bit we make some money before throwing away the jigs

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 26 Mar 2016 20:03

shiv wrote:As an export for a low to medium tech air force in the CAS role why would a Combat Hawk be worse than the JF 17 which is being peddled by shitland?


No low to medium tech air force would want to purchase an AJT-based CAS aircraft, when for a fractionally higher price they can purchase a fighter jet that is faster, is more maneuverable, has far better avionics, has a higher payload and can perform the entire gamut of tasks including air policing and warfighting.

If however they still need a cheap option for CAS/strike, a turboprop like the Super Tucano can do the job and do it cheaper than any jet. Its been extensively used in Latin America, in ops against narco-traffickers by Brazil and against the FARC by Colombia. The Afghan Air Force, which took its first deliveries just a few months ago (under a US-financed 'Light Air Support' acquisition) will soon starting using them against the Taliban.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 20:08

Viv S wrote:
shiv wrote:As an export for a low to medium tech air force in the CAS role why would a Combat Hawk be worse than the JF 17 which is being peddled by shitland?


No low to medium tech air force would want to purchase an AJT-based CAS aircraft, when for a fractionally higher price they can purchase a fighter jet that is faster, is more maneuverable, has far better avionics, has a higher payload and can perform the entire gamut of tasks including air policing and warfighting.

If however they still need a cheap option for CAS/strike, a turboprop like the Super Tucano can do the job and do it cheaper than any jet. Its been extensively used in Latin America, in ops against narco-traffickers by Brazil and against the FARC by Colombia. The Afghan Air Force, which took its first deliveries just a few months ago (under a US-financed 'Light Air Support' acquisition) will soon starting using them against the Taliban.

Thank you for your opinion. There will be more opinions than there are air forces so one viewpoint is just that. Unless one tries to sell one will not sell anything - but then again BRF will sell nuthin' to nobody so member views don't matter beyond chaibiskoot

Need to see where it goes. Someone must get back to me after a few years and tell me what happened.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 26 Mar 2016 20:26

shiv wrote:That was air combat. Not ground support. That ugly nose was a radar for interception back in those days. Didn't sell much. But sold a bit. So what?

The Hawk 200 is capable of strike and has seen action in that role. Though they may need to integrate an LDP like the Litening pod to improve CEPs.


Malaysian fighter jets bomb Sabah camp of sultan's men

Malaysia soldiers attack armed Filipino clan in Borneo
Malaysian soldiers have launched an assault on armed members of a Filipino clan in an ongoing conflict that has left at least 27 dead on Borneo island.

The ground troops are backed by fighter jets, with reports of several explosions near Lahad Datu, where the group of about 180 Filipinos are. The operation to oust the clan began at 07:00 (23:00 GMT on Monday), the Malaysian government said.

Seven army battalions were deployed to the area on Monday to reinforce police.

Among the aircraft used in the assault were an F-18 and a Hawk fighter aircraft, Malaysian state news agency Bernama reports. Helicopters were also seen flying in the area.



If the new Combat Hawk sells a bit we make some money before throwing away the jigs

BAE ought to be thinking the same thing. They've got an active production line at Warton. They don't need HAL at all... unless the objective is to finagle some orders from India.
Last edited by Viv S on 26 Mar 2016 20:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Suresh S » 26 Mar 2016 20:28

When we spend inordinate amounts of time accusing the media of being influenced by the west, or accusing sickulars and libtards of being influenced by the west we don't seem to notice how much we are influenced by the information that we are bombarded with and how much ignorance we show of the way in which we have been hit in the past by forces who are our equals or near equal starting wars at a time of their choosing.


That is a serious statement and a lot of thought has gone into that.At the age of 25 I did not understand it and my world views were a reflection of that. It takes a lot of time, thought, hard knocks in life that knocks the wind out of you and most of all the ability to see things which are pretty obvious but most people can not see it until pointed out my someone or unless they allow themselves to see it.It is all there black and white you just need the eyes to see it.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 20:37

So far the information I have got from the media is
1. HAL is in talks with BAe to make a Combat Hawk for export
2. The plane will leverage the strengths of BAe and HAL and have modern avionics and some wing modification to create an attack/CAS aircraft for the export market
3. This is a HAL/BAe idea. IAF has nothing to do with it. The IAF has shown no interest

The information I have got from BRF is
1. HAL should stop thinking about anything else and deliver on LCA
2. Combat Hawk is a useless idea and IAF should not use it
3. Even export customers will not like it
4. Export customers will not like it because...
5. Here is a long list of aircraft that are cheaper and better for others to buy rather than HALs idiotic idea..

What is really fascinating is that here an Indian PSU is collaborating with BAe thinking of export. And everyone on nationalistic BRF is bashing it down with every excuse possible under the sun! :rotfl:

That is really fascinating. Just thinking - what are people thinking? To me it looks like trying to cut off one's nose to spite one's face is not a Pakistani prerogative.
Last edited by shiv on 26 Mar 2016 20:43, edited 2 times in total.

shiv
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 26 Mar 2016 20:41

snahata wrote:
When we spend inordinate amounts of time accusing the media of being influenced by the west, or accusing sickulars and libtards of being influenced by the west we don't seem to notice how much we are influenced by the information that we are bombarded with and how much ignorance we show of the way in which we have been hit in the past by forces who are our equals or near equal starting wars at a time of their choosing.


That is a serious statement and a lot of thought has gone into that.At the age of 25 I did not understand it and my world views were a reflection of that. It takes a lot of time, thought, hard knocks in life that knocks the wind out of you and most of all the ability to see things which are pretty obvious but most people can not see it until pointed out my someone or unless they allow themselves to see it.It is all there black and white you just need the eyes to see it.

snahata it was easier for me - living through the 1965 and 1971 wars seeing daily counts of aircraft losses and other gains/losses. Reading Jasjit Singh after that gave me an insight into the way Air Forces in general and the IAF in particular plan for wars even desperate wars where things can go really bad rather than sterile YouTube wars of US hitting Talib with pilots sitting far away or even in USA

But it is even easier to watch American war videos on YouTube. And more fun.. :D
Last edited by shiv on 26 Mar 2016 20:45, edited 1 time in total.

Singha
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 26 Mar 2016 20:45

perhaps BAE has sensed an opportunity to compete with the L-159 and super tucano for the bush war market?
at the rate the middle east and africa is going down the tubes, this could be a viable segment.

iraq is taking delivery of some L-159 soon - looks similar to hawk in size and payload
Image

Suresh S
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Suresh S » 26 Mar 2016 20:46

as someone said shiv google can give you information but it can not give you knowledge.


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