'Make in India' Single engined fighter

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Prem » 23 Dec 2016 03:30

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 00/?spt=su
Raytheon to provide new F-16 mission computers for U.S. Air Force

"
The new mission computer is a game changer for the F-16," program manager Josh Cobbs said in a press release. "The brain of the F-16, this mission computer can process more information faster, allowing the pilot to put weapons on targets with greater reliability."The Modular Mission Computer Upgrade, or MMCU, combines multicore processing, high-speed computing and data networks with cybersecurity capabilities. Raytheon says the computer makes the legacy F-16 aircraft a more capable fighter alongside more modern variants."The F-16 remains the backbone of the global allied fighting force, and the mission computer will deliver capabilities to combat emerging threats alongside fifth-generation fighters well into the future," Raytheon's Travis Slocrumb added.The F-16 Fighting Falcon is one of the most numerous aircraft currently in service with the U.S. Air Force. The multi-mission fighter is slated to be phased out and replaced with Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lighting II.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Philip » 23 Dec 2016 13:04

Trump on a "turkey shoot" what? :rotfl:
If Trump drastically cuts down the number of F-35s and orders more SHs as an interim solution,it will have a drastic effect upon US allies who've already placed orders.What is most important is the support that the aircraft will get over 2-3 decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... val-boeing
Lockheed F-35 fighter project in doubt after Trump tweet encourages rival Boeing
President-elect keeps pressure on Lockheed-Martin’s expensive stealth fighter, saying he has invited Boeing to cost up its older Super Hornet jet
US Navy F-18E Super Hornets. Donald Trump says he has asked Boeing to pitch its Super Hornet against Lockheed Martin’s F-35. Photograph: Staff Sgt. Shawn Nickel/AFP/Getty Images
Friday 23 December 2016 01.49 GMT

Donald Trump has again criticised the cost of Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet and tweeted that he has asked Boeing to offer a price for an older aircraft that lacks the same stealth capabilities.

Trump posted his message on Thursday, a day after the president-elect met the chief executives of both aerospace companies. In after-hours trading following the tweet, Lockheed shares fell 2% and Boeing’s rose 0.7%.

Based on the tremendous cost and cost overruns of the Lockheed Martin F-35, I have asked Boeing to price-out a comparable F-18 Super Hornet!
3:56 AM - 23 Dec 2016


While the F-35 program has been dogged by problems and costs have escalated to an estimated $379bn, it is significantly newer than the F-18 Super Hornet Trump referred to. The aircraft does not have the same stealth capabilities.

“They’re two completely different aircraft from different generations,” said Phillip Carter, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, a Washington-based thinktank. “It’s like comparing an old jeep to a Humvee.”

Trump calls on US to 'greatly strengthen and expand' nuclear weapons capability
Read more
Dan Grazier of the Project on Government Oversight, a non-profit that investigates government contractors, said the F-35’s stealth capabilities drove up the cost, and its usefulness had not yet been demonstrated. He said canceling the program, however, would be “disruptive”.

On the campaign trail, Trump touted his negotiating skills as a businessman, and he appears to be using similar tactics as he prepares to take office on 20 January. It was not clear how his blunt style would translate to Pentagon procurement or international diplomacy.

On Wednesday, Trump met the CEOs of Lockheed and Boeing at his resort in Palm Beach, Florida. Boeing’s CEO, Dennis Muilenburg, said he had guaranteed costs would not get out of control for a replacement to Air Force One, the presidential plane, another project Trump has called too expensive.

Trump's tweet about Lockheed-Martin cuts $4bn in value as share prices fall
Read more
Lockheed’s chief executive, Marillyn Hewson, did not speak to reporters but said in a statement the meeting was “productive.” Trump said he wanted to cut the F-35 program’s costs.

If Trump scrapped the F-35, such a move by a new administration would have some precedent. President Jimmy Carter canceled the B-1 bomber program in June 1977, although it was resurrected by his White House successor, Ronald Reagan.

Trump’s jockeying for leverage via his Twitter account is likely to be a hurdle for all US defense contractors in the next administration, Roman Schweizer, aerospace and defense analyst at financial services firm Cowen & Co, wrote in a note to clients on Thursday.“We have no idea how this plays out but believe ‘Twitter risk’ for defense companies could be a significant issue over the next four years,” Schweizer wrote. “This is Lockheed Martin’s time in the barrel.”

Lockheed declined to comment. The F-35 program is a critical sales generator for the company, accounting for 20% of last year’s revenue of $46.1bn.

The Pentagon did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Boeing spokesman Todd Blecher said in an email the company was committed to providing the capability and affordability to meet national security needs.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brar_w » 23 Dec 2016 17:15

If Trump drastically cuts down the number of F-35s and orders more SHs as an interim solution,it will have a drastic effect upon US allies who've already placed orders.What is most important is the support that the aircraft will get over 2-3 decades.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5098&p=2092644#p2092644

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby tushar_m » 23 Dec 2016 20:07

Dassault-Reliance joint venture to build, supply combat aircraft on worldwide basis.


A Dassault Aviation-Reliance Group joint venture, formed to execute significant offsets for the Rs. 58,000 crore Rafale fighter jet deal, plans to manufacture and supply military combat aircraft on a “worldwide basis”.

Reliance Aero, which was incorporated in April 2015 by the Anil Ambani-controlled Reliance Group, will hold 51 per cent of the share in the joint venture with Dassault holding the rest, according to a clearance application filed before Competition Commission of India (CCI). The joint venture was announced in October.

The Rafale fighter jet deal entails an offsets component ­ money that has to be invested by the company into the Indian defence and aerospace sector ­ of over Rs 25,000 crore. While a part of the offsets will go towards technology acquisition by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), a major chunk will go into setting up of manufacturing facilities in India.

According to the CCI application, the market that the JV wants to address is “manufacture and supply of military combat aircraft on a worldwide basis“, indicating that a major part of the operation will be exports. While India has currently ordered only 36 jets, Rafale has a worldwide market with orders from nations like Egypt and Qatar, besides potential sales in several other countries.

The joint venture, venture, which is likely to be operationalised by mid next year, will have its main manufacturing unit in Nagpur. The plan is to set up a 100 acre facility that will integrate a supply chain for the Rafale fighter jet in India. The Nagpur facility is projected to create at least 1,500 direct jobs over the next seven years.The offsets would also need a large supplier base of more than 300 vendors to supply components and parts.



Maybe the single engine program could convert to twin engine . Navy is also interested in 57 fighters & both f16/gripen are not proven naval fighters.

If we combine 36+57(navy)+ 90(the no. IAF wanted initially) it would mean a substantial number of rafale in IAF & IN. Also nobody is questioning the quality & capability of this fighter just price.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 24 Dec 2016 00:33

tushar, I hope your wishes come true. But I don't believe any more Rafales are coming. Hard to justify the price. The Super Hornet can do what the Rafale does for cheaper. Not to mention the American Industrial might/capacity is hard for the Europeans (or that matter...anyone!) to overcome. If Boeing's offset proposal is accepted (AMCA development), that will be hard pressed for Dassault to meet on cost effective parameters. I am not convinced about Lockheed Martin, but the Boeing proposal is a different cookie.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Neshant » 25 Dec 2016 15:54

Kill the single engine buy-and-screwdriver-together aircraft and instead shift the focus to designing & developing a Medium Transport Aircraft with Boeing/Lockheed/Raytheon (whichever is willing to cooperate with India). The deal on developing an MTA with Russia has gone nowhere as they do not want to change their transport aircraft design to accommodate India's requirements. India is now out of that proposed joint venture but an MTA aircraft of 20 ton capacity will still be needed.

India cannot design this herself having no experience in designing medium lift transport aircraft. Help with aircraft and engine design will be needed.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cosmo_R » 26 Dec 2016 06:44

brar_w wrote:...
How about pushing the Su-35 and MiG-35 as being more or equally as advanced than the F-22 because clearly the F-22 came out earlier and was based on a prototype that had its design freeze in the late 1980s much like your "original Su-35".. .


Good point. M and S are later in the alphabet. '35' is more than '22' The Russian stuff is clearly more advanced. :)

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Philip » 28 Dec 2016 11:41

They (RU birds ) come massively cheaper than the out-of-prod F-22. Anyway,that's tangential to the td.

Now if this report is true,then its "hasta la vista" to the SH.The entire argument for a second line is to build aircraft for the IAF AND for export,so that the cost of setting up the plant,etc. can be recovered to an extent,and using the infra set up for future aircraft production. US deals come with too much of baggage with them.Whom you can export too and who not.Many of India's friends would not qualify because the US has some beef with them,like Iran for instance. This attitude too for an aircraft in its last avatar,originally flew 40 yrs ago is incomprehensible.This gives the Gripen an edge now as it is more modern and the Swedes are-a-willing to go the extra mile to grab the order.I don't think that MIG either will pose problems should the MIG-29/35 be in the running again.If we can export BMos to friendly nations (on the anvil),then so could we export MIGs. With the Chinese stealth bird flying at its air show,and Pak likely to be its first customer post 2020,the need to seal the deal for the FGFA becomes more urgent.China operating a few doz SU-35s and its own home-made stealth bird will only increase the IAF's requirement for both quantity and quality.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/eco ... epage=true
Boeing’s Super Hornet manufacture hits export hurdle

KGIRIPRAKASH
NAYANIMA BASU

Beoing’s Super Hornet not only has a low acquisition cost, but it costs less per flight hour to operate than any other tactical aircraft in the US forces inventory - Photo: K BHAGYA PRAKASH

Defence Ministry keen to address this issue for the project to take off

BENGALURU/NEW DELHI, DECEMBER 27:
Boeing’s decision to manufacture advanced medium combat aircraft, Super Hornet in India, has run into a fresh hurdle with issues over their export.

Michael Koch, who is Boeing’s President for Defence, Space and Security in India, told BusinessLine that the aircraft maker is committed to producing Super Hornets in India. “The Super Hornets will be built in India in a world class advanced manufacturing facility with the very latest technologies in place, perfectly positioning India to build its Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA),” he said.

But sources in the Defence Ministry said the issue of exporting the fighter jets manufactured here remains a key question which needs to be answered for the project to take off.

“One needs to understand that in India, the government is the buyer. And it can buy only so much. So, if a company is setting up a plant to manufacture these planes here then after a point their production will halt. They have to look for exporting them to other countries,” the official said requesting anonymity.

The official also added that even if there are plans of shipping these planes, there will be riders coming along with it because India cannot have these jets to be shipped to the “enemy countries”.

With the most advanced technologies, designed in stealth and a robust capability growth plan, the Super Hornet offers advanced multi-role attack fighter capability that is suited to meet the needs of the Indian Air Force.

Koch pointed out that the Super Hornet not only has a low acquisition cost, but it costs less per flight hour to operate than any other tactical aircraft in US forces inventory. That includes single engine fighters, which many would incorrectly assume are cheaper to operate. “The lethality of the Super Hornet is as game changing, as it is versatile. The Super Hornet fighter is the most advanced fighter being considered,” he said.

Koch also said that Boeing’s business strategy has a dual focus in India – firstly, to provide a winning platform to our military customers, with reliable and fuel-efficient products, underscored by life-cycle support services; and secondly, to create an eco-system for the aerospace industry in India, through partnerships with local companies.

“Going forward, you will see Boeing deepening its presence in India and continue to strengthen its partnerships with Indian companies to align with the government’s Make in India vision.”

Significant portions of the Apache and Chinook helicopters will be made in India. While the Bengaluru-based Dynamatic Technologies manufactures the ramp and pylon for the CH-47 Chinook helicopter in India, Boeing last year also announced a joint venture with Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL) to manufacture aerostructures for aircraft.

“Boeing also sees future opportunities for providing additional P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, aircraft refuelling tankers and weapons such as Harpoon missiles, unmanned systems and services and support,” Koch said.

He said Boeing has maintained its delivery schedules all along. For example, 10 C-17 Globemaster III strategic airlifter aircraft to the IAF were delivered on schedule in 2013 and 2014. With the 10 deliveries, India became the largest international operator of the C-17. Boeing also delivered all eight P-8I maritime surveillance aircraft to the Indian Navy by the end of 2015, all on time and budget.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brar_w » 28 Dec 2016 16:02

The Super Hornet does not cost less to operate than the F-16C. If you look at just the aircraft, it costs about 25% more compared to the F-16. What Boeing loves to do is show the F-16 enterprise cost being more than that of the F-18E/F, which is totally legitimate since the USAF mans for a larger fleet, and has different cost structure given its deployment patterns and international bases than the navy that has consolidated basing and a smaller concrete deployment footprint.

For many years the US Services have factored in absolutely everything supporting an enterprise cost before dividing it by the number of aircraft flight hours flown that year. This means the fuel cost varies by service, how much it deploys, how much tanker support it consumes etc etc. Global deployment has depot costs which are different compared to a tiered readiness force that has consolidated to fewer concrete bases.

The bare bone cost of operating the F-16 per hour is $8000 compared to $10,000 for the F-18E. These costs increase to above $20,000 for the F-16 once you factor in the US Manpower and other F-16 enterprise related costs (shipping fuel around the world, basing infrastructure unique to the aircraft etc etc). What an prospective export customer worries about is fuel consumption, the reliability rates and the cost of spares etc since these directly impact CPFH and sustainment across the board irrespective of the internal cost structure of the operating force. Manpower requirement, while important is more so in the western air-forces where these costs (pay and benefits) is very high unless there are recruitment and retention issues.
Last edited by brar_w on 29 Dec 2016 02:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Dec 2016 01:59

^ Thanks for clarifying that Brar. I was wondering how a single engined fighter could be more expensive than a twin engined bird - in procurement or over lifetime. But I'm still impressed that the barebones difference between the two is only $ 2000 per hour. What about difference in acquisition costs?

This will be a very interesting play between LM and Boeing. I'm betting the F-16 is cheaper overall - acquisition and procurement. But can the Shornet make up for this by rendering this 20% difference marginal and touting the commonality with the LCA and IN CBGs (I'm assuming both Vikrant and Vishal might manage the Shornet somehow), and thereby overall "enterprise" cost gains? The ACM was recently speaking of up to 200 MRCA - even if another 126-150 are bought, we can expect another 126-150 for the IN's needs between the two carriers. Total requirement could be up to 300 fighters.....very tempting for Boeing to make some dramatic offers I presume.

Also very interesting that all these needs (ACM Raha's comments, IN's recent RFI, talks on getting engine tech for LCA) are coinciding with the push for the MII fighter. Perhaps the single engined fighter will morph into a twin engined variant after all.

Not sure though if Shornet can operate from Stobar Vikrant although it might very well manage it with reduced payload. The MiG-29K weighs about 12tons empty and pumps out 18tons of AB thrust.The Shornet weighs ~ 14 tons empty and pumps out 20 tons thrust @ full AB. Don't see why it can't take off from the Vikrant or Vikad, especially if payload is reduced. A2A at least, it should be able to manage a very respectable load.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brar_w » 29 Dec 2016 02:23

F-16 will be cheaper to build if produced at an efficient rate. That hasn't occurred for quite a while and the number of suppliers is reducing with resources moving from active production to long term sustainment. The F-18E/F program on the other hand had been going full steam for the past decade and has only recently cut production.

As things stand the F-18E/F is the better option of the two given the USN's constant investments at improving it given that it will form the backbone of their fighter fleet throughout the 2020's, and well into the 2030's. Having said that most of these options are suboptimal given what the IAF could have had in quantity by now had it for example gone in for a simple M2K production a decade or so earlier. If the IAF insists on a medium class 'only' solution, and that has to come in quantity with an MII component then I guess there are a few options..none will be cheap however.

Not sure though if Shornet can operate from Stobar Vikrant although it might very well manage it with reduced payload.


It probably could but would be payload restricted. Rafale would probably be the same.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Dec 2016 03:41

brar_w wrote:F-16 will be cheaper to build if produced at an efficient rate. That hasn't occurred for quite a while and the number of suppliers is reducing with resources moving from active production to long term sustainment. The F-18E/F program on the other hand had been going full steam for the past decade and has only recently cut production.

As things stand the F-18E/F is the better option of the two given the USN's constant investments at improving it given that it will form the backbone of their fighter fleet throughout the 2020's, and well into the 2030's.


Further, they can probably combine IAF and IN needs if the Shornet is chosen and double the numbers (250-300?) thereby amortizing the costs for the Shornet. If F-16 is selected, it will be a purely IAF fighter (126-150).

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cybaru » 29 Dec 2016 05:11

I think it makes sense to tool for f-35 and keep it single engined. Do what the italians and the Japanese are doing to make f-35 locally. We still get the F414 for AMCA no matter what aircraft we sign on to. It really doesn't make any sense to get f-16s and f-18s unless we get the growlers.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brar_w » 29 Dec 2016 05:16

I think the IAF was pretty clear (and this is reflected in the RFI) that they are looking for 200+ 4th generation+ medium sized aircraft. 5th generation capability comes at a cost. Especially at that scale given the fact that so far the IAF/MOD still plan on striking a deal to develop the FGFA.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby VinodTK » 29 Dec 2016 05:33

Buy 1 squadron of F35 per year for the next 5 years and increase the acquisition to 2 squadrons per year for the next 5 years, cost is spread out and the numbers will go up steadily - (270 aircraft: 90+180)
Meanwhile build up the LCA numbers and develop India's own 5th generation AMCA; skip all 4.0 & 4.5 generation aircraft

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 29 Dec 2016 11:12

India jet-fighter deal poses threat to Boeing, Lockheed jobs in U.S.
https://goo.gl/Ezvbia

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Dec 2016 22:01

Why a merit-less Rafale buy can’t be justified - Bharat Karnad
And two, more importantly, Raha revealed the real reason for the IAF enthusiastically backing prime minister Narendra Modi’s unexpected announcement in Paris in April 2015 of the purchase of 36 French Rafale combat aircraft without an iota of technology transfer, which this analyst had deduced then, namely, that this small number of Rafales while useless by itself as a fighting force, would work nicely as leverage with the Modi government to buy an additional 200-250 of the same aircraft.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Dec 2016 23:10

If IAF has its way, it is going to be the Rafale.

walk-the-talk-with-air-chief-marshal-arup-raha

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby rohitvats » 29 Dec 2016 23:48

I wish Bharat Karnad focuses more on giving analysis - which as it is seems to border on delusion - than making these stupid comments.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Amoghvarsha » 30 Dec 2016 03:52

I have a question from all the Saars and non saars on BRF,Will we have another circus of trials like we had for MMRCA for this MII tender or it will be just the financial and MII terms that will be the decider?

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 30 Dec 2016 04:21

With Gripen in the mix (but the Amreekis will win it) you can be sure there will be a competition. You have to give the appearance of fairness. How long that will take is anyone's guess.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Indranil » 30 Dec 2016 04:36

I am hoping for a circus as long as the MMRCA, or even longer. I want the US Congress, trade unions, Raga, Arvind Kejriwal, Tom, Dick, Harry, Ram, Shyam, Imran, Salim and everyone to get in.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cain Marko » 30 Dec 2016 06:35

^And we may see this yet. IIRC MP did comment regarding buying both single and twin engined birds.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Marten » 30 Dec 2016 07:59

What a sorry mess. I hope they go for a Gov't to Govt deal and not another Saas bahu trials and selection drama.

Just a point here that rankled quite a bit. Raha, the soon to be ex ACM basically defended ex ACM Tyagi by calling him one of the family instead of blanket condemnation of anyone tainted by the Augusta Westland scam. Anyone following the mess knows the rules were clearly bent whether there was corruption in the IAF top echelons or not. We expect Caesar's wife to be above any suspicion and "family" type statements only say we will stand by our own anyways. He needs to be careful of the implications. DDM is waiting to make a scapegoat of chiefs in any case.
PS: Unrelated -- but years from now, will there be any recourse for the nation if another scam breaks, this time related to MRCA, downselect circus notwithstanding?

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Nick_S » 30 Dec 2016 08:00

Rakesh wrote:India jet-fighter deal poses threat to Boeing, Lockheed jobs in U.S.
https://goo.gl/Ezvbia


Sigh... there are some amazing comments there.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby rgosain » 30 Dec 2016 16:05

Nick_S wrote:
Rakesh wrote:India jet-fighter deal poses threat to Boeing, Lockheed jobs in U.S.
https://goo.gl/Ezvbia


Sigh... there are some amazing comments there.


Articles like these from outside the DC, Silicon Valley, NYC bubble should be allowed to blossom and be disseminated far and wide to show the thinking of some sectors of US industry which wants India as a pliant Satrap. Buying US fighter aircraft of a certain vintage is the proverbial poisoned chalice, and will be subject to technology denials, sanctions and bait and twist, all of which will be at the expense of the Indian tax-payer.
Even if the GOI wanted to purchase the aircraft as a form of tribute to Pres Trump, considerable goodwill will have to expended by both sides to assuage those, whose views are written in the report

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 30 Dec 2016 16:34

ShauryaT wrote:If IAF has its way, it is going to be the Rafale.

walk-the-talk-with-air-chief-marshal-arup-raha


Indeed Shekhar Gupta made him speak on that topic , In terms of Fleet/Inventory Management and Capability , Rafale is ideal aircraft to have IAF chief says

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 30 Dec 2016 16:58

Lockheed Martin offers F-16 Block 70, for India, from India, exported to the world
By Neetu Dhulia

India-bound? F-16 Block 70

Armed with 4588 orders, 4573 deliveries and 40 years of production experience, US defence major, Lockheed Martin is set at moving the entire production line of F-16 fighter jets to India from its only operational facility in Fort Worth, Texas.

New Delhi, August 4, 2016: In sync with ‘Make in India’, Lockheed Martin is all out to move the production facility of its F-16 next-generation fighters to India. “We have had a round of discussions earlier this year with the US Government, the Government of India and the Indian industry partners about this opportunity. At this stage the Indian Government has been supplied with all data to support an informed decision,” said Abhay Paranjape, National Executive, India, of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. He however mentioned that shifting of the assembly line is conditional to some assured orders from India.

Highlighting the partnership strengths, Randall L. Howard from the F-16 Business Development team at Lockheed Martin added: “We have an unmatched industrial partnership experience and we have established the industrial capability in country after country.” Lockheed had delivered a total of 958 fighters from its partnerships with SABCA-Belgium, Fokker-Netherlands, TAI-Turkey and KAI-Korea apart from 3,616 deliveries from its facility in Fort Worth, Texas.

F-16 BLOCK 70 PRODUCTION LINE IS ON OFFER AND IS CONDITIONAL TO ORDERS FROM THE INDIAN AIR FORCE. SP’S BELIEVES IT IS SENSIBLE TO SEEK AN ASSURED ORDER FOLLOWING WHICH LOCKHEED MARTIN WILL MOVE THE ENTIRE PRODUCTION LINE OF ITS LARGEST SELLING FIGHTER (CURRENTLY IN USE IN 27 NATIONS) TO INDIA.


“In India, we are already making components for the worldwide fleet,” added Paranjape. Lockheed Martin has partnered with Tata Advanced Systems Limited. The C-130J airlifter sold internationally contains major aero structure assemblies manufactured in India and each S-92 medium-lift helicopter built by Sikorsky, a Lockheed Martin Company, has a cabin manufactured in Hyderabad. When asked whether the offer is conditional to an order from India, the team categorically said “they need an order”.

Describing the next-gen fighter, Howard pointed on the advantages, “Block 70 is most advanced F-16 ever and it will be made in India with an Indian company, this next-generation fighter is an evolution of the proven design of the midlife update (MLU) and common configuration improvement programme (CCIP). The fighter is equipped with latest technology in avionics equipment, operational capabilities, joint helmet cueing systems II and has an unparalleled survivability with modern internal electronic warfare system along with certified advanced weapons onboard.”



F-16 Block 70: Key Features


Global Standard Multi-Role Fighter: An US Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcon During Red Flag Exercise

Advanced AESA Radar Capabilities:

• Greater detection and tracking ranges, • Multiple target track (20 + target tracks, • High-resolution Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) maps for all-environment precision strike,
• Interleaved air-to-air and air-to-surface mode operations for improved situational awareness, – and for operational effectiveness and survivability, • Robust electronic protection for operations in dense RF environments, • Greater system reliability and availability.
Centre Pedestal Display:
Enhanced data, high resolution displays to enhance battlespace awareness.
Advanced Avionics Architecture:
Digital video and high-speed data network enable capability growth.




Jayant Baranwal, Editor-in-Chief, SP’s Aviation, spoke to Randall L. Howard and Abhay Paranjape of Lockheed Martin. Excerpts:


Randall L Howard
F-16 Business Development, Lockheed Martin

Abhay Paranjape
National Executive, India,
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics

Jayant Baranwal (Baranwal): Does F-16 Block 70 offer any kind of stealth element?


Randall L. Howard (Howard): True stealth in all aspects has to be designed within the aircraft, that’s not the kind of stuff that comes with any aircraft but for F-22 and F-35. Having said that, F-16 offers a lot of general stealth, as it is a small aircraft and it has a pretty small cross section. There is coding that can be placed on the aircraft. The fighter includes a new radar system, stealth detection capability and threat detection capability; it competes very well in its class being undetectable to the radar.

Baranwal: What exactly is the offer of Lockheed Martin, also in the context of ‘Make in India’?


Abhay Paranjape (Paranjape): We are not looking at just assembling India’s aircraft here. We are looking at establishing the complete manufacturing base and the ecosystem here in India. We are looking at transferring our entire production from our existing Fort Worth facility to India and also exporting them from here. So what that means also is we now have a vested interest in making sure that it succeeds. Lockheed Martin is going to be selling aircraft made here to the world and we will make sure that it succeeds.

Baranwal: Which particular programme of the Indian Air Force you are aiming for with the F-16 Block 70?


Paranjape: You are very well aware that the MMRCA programme was about 126 odd aircraft. The Rafale is going though in final stages right now and is apparently for much smaller number. The MMRCA proposal came out in 2007 and we are in 2016, so we definitely think there is significant number of aircraft that will be required going forward. How many, what type, what and when exactly, that is up to the Indian Air Force.

Baranwal: Can F-16 compliment the LCA induction?

Paranjape: The induction of an aircraft into the force is obviously the decision of the Indian Air Force. You saw the briefing from Howard, as far as the capability; you can look it up as far as LCA’s capabilities, the range and the type and compare that with F-16 and you can see.

Baranwal: What will be the turnaround time for the first delivery from the Indian facility post the decision? Can you give an exact time line?


Howard: I think it is hard to give an exact time line. The typical delivery period of F-16 is about 36 months range. The challenge we have is to train the workforce and put in place all the facilities. We have given a notional time line to the government on the production. To be very specific in the public forum is very hard, because there are a lot of variables and dependencies. But I can say that we have done these many times and we have a proven track record of having it done successfully.

Baranwal: As per recent reports, we believe that you are expecting a potential business worth $15 billion in India.


Howard: According to us this is a very conservative figure. We believe if the things fall in place then the potential of business is way too bigger than $15 billion.



Photo Credit: Lockheed Martin

Rakesh
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 30 Dec 2016 22:54

Austin wrote:Indeed Shekhar Gupta made him speak on that topic, In terms of Fleet/Inventory Management and Capability , Rafale is ideal aircraft to have IAF chief says

When Shekhar Gupta conducts interviews only Shekhar Gupta speaks. He asks the questions and then he only answers them. The interviewee just nods their head. Kinda like married life :)

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Hitesh » 30 Dec 2016 23:08

Nick_S wrote:
Rakesh wrote:India jet-fighter deal poses threat to Boeing, Lockheed jobs in U.S.
https://goo.gl/Ezvbia


Sigh... there are some amazing comments there.


Don't wanna subscribe to their newspaper but I wish someone would post a reply to one of the posters, Burrito or something along the lines of "Keep your planes then. If you don't want any conditions, then we will keep our hard earned cash and motivate ourselves to fully develop the LCA into a world class fighter program and start AMCA program immediately. We don't need your stupid fighters anyway and we don't need to spend our hard earned cash on fat ass overpaid white americans."

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 31 Dec 2016 00:28

Rakesh wrote:
Austin wrote:Indeed Shekhar Gupta made him speak on that topic, In terms of Fleet/Inventory Management and Capability , Rafale is ideal aircraft to have IAF chief says

When Shekhar Gupta conducts interviews only Shekhar Gupta speaks. He asks the questions and then he only answers them. The interviewee just nods their head. Kinda like married life :)


Chief seems to be shy person not willing to revel much unless Gupta keeps digging and giving him choices to answer

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby svinayak » 31 Dec 2016 00:35

Rakesh wrote:India jet-fighter deal poses threat to Boeing, Lockheed jobs in U.S.
https://goo.gl/Ezvbia


Fake article and psy ops
Must be paid by China lobby

Even though Trump focus will be China and import of China made products these article are to confuse the public and create negative image

India has to 'encourage' these articles to mention India is a defense partner of US and is in the US defense bill

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby sankum » 31 Dec 2016 04:24

120 nos make in India single engine fighter may very well be replaced by 80 nos make in India Rafale and 40 nos Su30mki.

Wait for march 2017 GOI decision.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Viv S » 31 Dec 2016 08:44

For sale: 40 Israeli F-16 fighter jets with history
December 28, 2016

Israel's Defense Ministry has announced that it will try to sell the aircraft to foreign forces. Specifically, the ministry’s Defense Aid Branch has advertised that 40 such planes are up for sale, noting that in the IAF they served in a variety of missions and are “especially recommended for attack forces.”

Israel is also selling another seven Hercules C-130 planes, seven Hawk fighter-interceptor systems, 40 Skyhawk Eagles and eight Cobra helicopters.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 31 Dec 2016 09:37

svinayak wrote:Fake article and psy ops
Must be paid by China lobby

Even though Trump focus will be China and import of China made products these article are to confuse the public and create negative image

India has to 'encourage' these articles to mention India is a defense partner of US and is in the US defense bill

It has been stated quite effectively in this very thread that we are ignorant in TFTA production. Only a country of the caliber like Amreeka can teach us how to do production. We did not plan for mass production, we did not establish a robust supplier base and so on. When we adopt the F-Solah, Block 70 all the defeciencies which we suffer from will go away. Who cares if the article is fake?

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brvarsh » 31 Dec 2016 09:48

We should add a new perspective to the selection of the fighter Jets - As the technology gap (stealing + IP trashing) is fast shrinking between what Americans have and what China would soon be getting their hands on and with China now unofficially owning Pakistan we should not be surprised if there would be tech parity between what gets deployed on India's East and the Western borders. In ten years time we would be in a serious possibility of two front war. Would we still need 250 light weight fighters then? Should we shift our focus more on missile defense? Should we open venues capable to stretch their forces thin with each front they open?

I am sure wise men think this day and night!

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cybaru » 31 Dec 2016 11:51

Rakesh wrote:India jet-fighter deal poses threat to Boeing, Lockheed jobs in U.S.
https://goo.gl/Ezvbia



Well there are no orders after 2018/2019 time frame at the moment, so that (st louis) facility could be up for grabs as well. If they get India order that will be a huge deal for the FA-18 folks. Perhaps will extend the line by 2 years as they make 24 /36 in fly away condition and make the remaining 120-180 locally. They are currently making 2 a month. Canada hasn't decided yet if it will actually cancel the f-35 order.

If the acquisition cost is similar for Fa-18/f-16 and the 80-100 million dollar f-35, then it makes sense to push something we can make and use for 30-50 years from now. It will surely kill AMCA though on second thoughts.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Kakarat » 31 Dec 2016 17:30

Viv S wrote:For sale: 40 Israeli F-16 fighter jets with history
December 28, 2016

Israel's Defense Ministry has announced that it will try to sell the aircraft to foreign forces. Specifically, the ministry’s Defense Aid Branch has advertised that 40 such planes are up for sale, noting that in the IAF they served in a variety of missions and are “especially recommended for attack forces.”

Israel is also selling another seven Hercules C-130 planes, seven Hawk fighter-interceptor systems, 40 Skyhawk Eagles and eight Cobra helicopters.


I don't think these would be of any use to India but the F-16 could be bought for Vietnam and others mainly Skyhawk and Cobra helicopters for Afghanistan

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rishirishi » 31 Dec 2016 23:53

Why purchase an aircraft which other almost all its users are retireing. It will take at least antoher 10 years to have an opperational force of F16s. By that time F-35 will be the gold standard. The Chinease will be selling their stelth fighters (let us hope it does not materilaize). I think we can get a better deal from the sweeds and their Gripen. They probably want to develop a sucessor, but may not have the funding. Perhaps a joint venture for crating a new stealth AC could be the thing.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 01 Jan 2017 00:35

Stealth and Swedes? Am I missing something?

Single engine 5th gen, the best is the F-35.

China has something up and flying, but I very much doubt they gsm produce anything that would be worthwhile in 10-15 years. This, IMHO, is a flash in the pan.

Russia is struggling (no idea why, but do not see any ramp up orders from their own AF).

France has no plan.

Japan is one with a tech demo flying.

And India. The AMCA should be better than the FGFA (not a knock).


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