GeorgeWelch wrote:Rakesh wrote:I thought manufacturing was non-existent. We need F-16 to save us!
No one said that
Now, Now, Now...let's play fair.
What is the quote below then? How to improve banana production?
Any MII effort in India is simply a way to redirect as much of the spending on defense to create a multiplier effect in other sectors of the economy. It won't make huge dent but even a small one will start the ball rolling.
What ball needs to get rolled? I provided a small list of other sectors of the economy that are booming without F-Solah srewdrivergiri in India. And you come back with, "You should always strive to improve yourself even more." WOW! Which of those sectors that I listed, will see a boost in production or profit if F-Solah production comes along? Please explain.
GeorgeWelch wrote:If handled properly, it can be much more than that and make a substantive difference
Please explain how it will make a substantive difference.
GeorgeWelch wrote:Make in India is more sophisticated than just assembly, but I think the first step is to not let HAL anywhere near it. As you mentioned, they've had plenty of opportunities and haven't done anything with it.
Okay if it is more "sophisticated" than assembly, please explain in what areas does India need to be taught sophistication. We are not getting radar technology, we are not getting engine technology. Would you agree on that? LM is not expected to part with that. So other than assembling the fighter, from the vast global supply base, what else are we doing?
Someone mentioned learning how to market the fighter. So I ask again, is India allowed to market and sell the fighter to the following countries? Venezuela? Iran? Syria? Myanmar? Vietnam?
GeorgeWelch wrote:Even ignoring that LM uses more sophisticated manufacturing processes than Russia, skills are perishable. They require constant use or else they disappear. Also working with LM opens up far more future possibilities than working with Sukhoi. If Sukhoi is impressed with your work, so what. If LM is impressed with your work, they have a huge range of products they might come back to you for.
You mentioned sophisticated manufacturing processes vis-à-vis Russia, so I am not going to ignore it. Please explain what is so sophisticated that LM does. Secondly, what use was this sophistication when Russian fighters -- flown by Indian pilots -- flew circles around F-16s and F-15s during the various Cope India exercises? Even the 3rd generation MiG-21 was soundly beating the 4th generation American fighters. There is a running joke on the internet. That NASA wasted millions on developing a pen for their astronauts, that could write in space. The Russians gave their cosmonauts a pencil. What is the point of this sophistication, if the end goal is achieved?
Unless you have been living under a rock, India is already working with LM. But I already know your counter to this - "You should always strive to improve yourself even more." But I list it anyway.
Tata-Lockheed Martin Joint Venture Delivers 50th C-130J Super Hercules Empennage
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/p ... nnage.html
India operated six C-130Js. One crashed with five remaining in service. So that means, out of the above 50 aircraft, 44 of them have been exported out of India to be assembled in the US, correct? However it does not end there. TASL (Tata Advanced Systems Limited) has been doing the same for the Sikorsky S-92 helicopter - another American product.
Tata-Sikorsky Deal Ends HAL Aerospace Monopoly
http://defense-technologynews.blogspot. ... space.html
Tata Advanced Systems and Sikorsky to Manufacture Helicopter Cabins in India
http://machinist.in/index.php?option=co ... 0&Itemid=2
Now both these articles are from June 2009 - almost 8 years old. So I decided to ask Google Chacha how far has S-92 component production reached. See what I found from Wiki Mamu.
By the end of July 2013, assembly of 39 cabins had been completed.
I also checked who in India operates the S-92. As of 03 March 2017, not one single entity does. So where did those 39 cabins go then? Were they exported out of the country or did they go to the Himalayas for meditation?
The above link also gave me these two nuggets of information.
In partnership with Airbus Defence and Space, the company fielded the EADS CASA C-295 for the Indian Air Force light-cargo fleet renewal program, which the Indian government approved on 13 May 2015. Under the project 16 complete aircraft will be imported, while 40 aircraft will be manufactured in India.
The company has also entered an agreement to produce structures for the Pilatus PC-12NG from 2016 to 2026.
Here is another American aviation giant (this time Boeing) building components in India. Read through the whole thing - an amazing read.
About Boeing in India
http://www.boeing.co.in/boeing-in-india ... india.page
Soon after, the Indian Prime Minister launched the “Make-in-India” initiative in September 2014, Dynamatic Technolgies and Boeing inaugurated a plant to manufacture critical parts for the Chinook Heavy Lift Helicopters. In a state-of-the-art facility with TAL Manufacturing Solutions Ltd., Boeing supports manufacture of complex floor beams for the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner, one of the most advanced airplanes in the world. TAL also makes ground support equipment for the C-17.
Dynamatic Technologies and Tata Advanced Materials Limited (TAML) have delivered P-8I power and mission equipment cabinets, and TAML is on contract to provide P-8I auxiliary power unit door fairings and composite tailcones for the P-8I. Avantel has delivered the mobile satellite systems for the P-8I and Maini. Hyderabad-based Cyient (formerly Infotech) has supported a number of critical design-engineering projects for Boeing airplanes, and currently provides design and stress support on the 747-8 Freighter and the 787-8 and 787-9.
Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) has delivered the Indian-designed Data Link II for the P-8I. Data Link II is a communications system that enables exchange of tactical data and messages among the Indian Navy aircraft, ships and shore establishments. BEL has also delivered the identification friend-or-foe interrogator, a battle management system that enables the aircraft to distinguish friendly aircraft and forces. Finally, BEL is on contract to provide F/A-18 flight deck cockpit panels. Electronics Corporation of India (ECIL) has provided the speech secrecy systems for the P-8I.
This is why it makes way better sense for the Trump administration to let India to build (perform screwdrivergiri) components rather than an entire fighter. Transferring a line to India, could be political suicide for President Trump. LM/Boeing can copy the same model above for a fighter as well. Let India screwdrivergiri the F414 engine for the Tejas and AMCA. That is one among many components that the US can provide for India without having to violate Make America Great Again.
GeorgeWelch wrote:The goal is to create up a network of suppliers and build your aerospace industrial base.
If that is your theory, then that is a theory that can be learnt. You do not need to purchase 100 F-Solahs on how to create a network of suppliers and build your aerospace industrial base. That is bakwaas.