'Make in India' Single engined fighter

srai
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby srai » 16 Jun 2017 06:23

^^^

It may happen after all.

Austin wrote:4 contracts jettisoned

Last month, a Rs 10,900 crore contract for surface-to-air missiles for the army was scrapped in favour of an indigenous missile system

Defence minister Arun Jaitley has pulled the plug on four long-delayed defence purchases worth over Rs 20,000 crore. Last month, a Rs 10,900 crore contract for surface-to-air missiles for the army was scrapped in favour of an indigenous missile system. Now Jaitley has recommended the cancellation of contracts for armoured recovery vehicles (ARVs), naval multi-role helicopters (MRHs) and torpedoes, worth about Rs 10,000 crore, which were comatose with the MoD for years.

In 2011, the MoD had placed a Rs 1,770 crore contract with Bharat Earth Movers for 204 ARVs, used to tow tanks, made by Poland's Bumar. Delays resulted in a 20 per cent increase in cost thanks to the appreciation of the dollar. Another contract, worth Rs 1,800 crore, for the purchase of 98 Blackshark torpedoes manufactured by a subsidiary of Finmeccanica (now Leonardo) came under a cloud after the firm was accused of paying bribes. The fourth, for the purchase of 18 naval MRHs, hit an impasse in 2014, when commercial bids by Sikorsky for S-70B choppers were found to be way above the Rs 6,000 crore the MoD had set aside.

Jaitley's decision could be a mixed blessing for the armed forces. Once these contracts are scrapped, it is likely they will be refloated as Make in India projects and government-to-government deals. MoD watchers tie the cancellations to the government's policy on strategic partners, helicopter manufacture is one of four areas where the government sees private sector firms tying up with foreign partners, and US firms are strong contenders in this regard. Though the hardware is still years away from induction and will likely see significant cost escalations, the armed forces can take heart from the fact that the wheels of decision-making have started moving again.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 16 Jun 2017 14:06

Gripen E makes maiden flight
Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

http://www.janes.com/article/71455/grip ... den-flight
The Saab Gripen E combat aircraft made its maiden flight from the company's Linköping production facility on 15 June.

The flight lasted for 40 minutes, during which the pilot "carried out a number of actions to demonstrate various test criteria including the retracting and extending of the landing gear," Saab said, adding that the aircraft performed as expected.

This milestone was slightly delayed from the original date of late 2016, as the company decided to finalise all of the software development ahead of commencing the flight trials process to reduce risk to the programme.

With 39-8 being used mainly for airframe and general flight control tests, a second prototype (39-9) will be used as a tactical systems testbed, while the third and final single-seat prototype (39-10) will fly as a production-standard airframe. The twin-seat Gripen NG demonstrator (39-7) that provided much of the risk mitigation for the Gripen E will continue to serve as a general test platform throughout the flight trials effort.

As previously highlighted by Saab, the Gripen E's enhancements over the earlier C/D models can be categorised in terms of survivability, sensors, general systems, payload, communications, performance, range, avionics, and human-machine interface/sensor fusion.


Sweden is due to receive the first of 60 Gripen Es (perhaps rising to 70, depending on a governmental decision that is to come) in 2019, with deliveries running through to 2026. In anticipation, the Swedish Air Force (SwAF) has already begun developing the tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) that it will employ for the type.

Speaking to reporters at the home of the service's Operational Test and Evaluation (OT&E) squadron at Malmen Airbase in southern Sweden, Major Johan Jeppsson, director of operations for the unit, said in late May that, "We see what new tactics might be needed, and we then introduce those to the operational squadrons.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 16 Jun 2017 14:08

Video of First Flight Gripen-E


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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby nirav » 16 Jun 2017 16:56

Acquiring SAAB makes so much more sense than going in for Gripen !

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brar_w » 16 Jun 2017 17:00

It also remains a fantasy. SAAB is a strategic supplier to Sweden, just about the last one they have left and its portfolio is just about sized for the footprint they can support in the long term (supplemented by export sales). This would be akin to throwing enough cash and buying BAE Systems which is similarly a strategic supplier to Britain. You won't be able to do it unless the nation concerned is willing to give up strategic capability commensurate with their financial resources and national security need.
Last edited by brar_w on 16 Jun 2017 17:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Chinmay » 16 Jun 2017 17:07

SAAB sure makes some slick videos. Something to emulate for our agencies?

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby nirav » 16 Jun 2017 18:05

brar_w wrote:It also remains a fantasy.


A Jingo can dream :)

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 17 Jun 2017 20:23

New-generation Prototype Leads Gripen Renaissance

Originally scheduled to have flown for the first time by the end of 2016, at the time of writing Saab’s new-generation Gripen E prototype was due to fly before the end of the second quarter this year. Briefing reporters in mid-May, the company said that ground vibration tests had been completed and that the initial flight test software was being loaded. Chief test pilot Hans Einerth reported that the aircraft had conducted high-speed taxi tests at over 100 knots, and had proved to be very reliable, with only one BIT (built-in test) alert being recorded.

Saab (Chalet 379) has stressed that the six-month delay in flying the prototype was not due to any technical difficulties. Instead, the company decided to revise its test plan and delay the beginning of flight trials until the aircraft’s innovative avionics architecture had been fully qualified. Employing a concept known as DIMA (distributed integrated modular avionics), the Gripen E’s avionics segregate flight-critical functions from non-critical applications.

Clearing the architecture before flight should speed the test program as new functionality can be added and tested without having to be re-qualified as successive iterations of the basic architecture are introduced. Based on RTCA 1788/C civilian standards, the DIMA avionics architecture allows developers to concentrate on software functions without having to take into account how they might affect the aircraft’s systems–in much the same way as app developers can plug in functionality to smartphones. Not only does this speed the pace of initial development, but in the future it will permit the rapid insertion of new technology and functionality without the need to re-qualify flight-critical systems every time.

Gripen Evolution

Throughout its life the Gripen system has been updated through a series of iterative upgrades as part of the MS (material system) program. The first Gripen E (aircraft 39-8) is intended for air vehicle and structural tests, and will fly with a version of the current Gripen C/D’s MS20 software, along with test instrumentation in the cockpit. For now, many of the aircraft’s intended mission systems are being tested in the Gripen Demo technology demonstrator (aircraft 39-7), but the two subsequent trials aircraft (39-9 and 39-10) will take on system development work.

First deliveries of production aircraft are due in 2019. Initial aircraft for Sweden will have the MS21 software load that provides a basic air-to-air fighter capability, but by the end of 2023 the first true multi-role squadron with the full-specification MS22 software is scheduled to become operational. The Swedish air force plans to have all six of its fighter squadrons operating 60 Gripen Es with MS22 by 2026.

There are still many decisions to take as to what the Swedish Gripen E will look like, particularly with regard to the cockpit. One agency that is playing a major part is the air force’s TU JAS (Gripen OT&E–operational test and evaluation) unit at Malmen air base, which represents the end-user in discussions with government and industry.

Working with Saab and the FMV, the TU JAS unit has not only provided input to the test and development programs, but is also planning the training syllabus and how the aircraft will be brought into service. Tactical concepts such as the use of austere war bases is being studied, and also how to employ the Gripen C and Gripen E together tactically. The unit’s pilots have already spent time flying the Gripen E test rig as part of an ongoing operational evaluation program, with all this experience being fed back into the development process to fine-tune the aircraft that will be delivered to operational squadrons. TU JAS is also helping to define the roadmap for further Gripen E development, with MS23 already in the project definition stage.

Twin-track Approach

While the focus of attention is naturally on the Gripen E/F, Saab continues to promote the current Gripen C/D and is, in effect, offering a two-product fighter range. Last year the MS20 standard became operational with the Swedish air force’s C/Ds, bringing with it the capability to launch the MBDA Meteor long-range air-to-air missile, which is now being employed in exercises. The extra capabilities of the weapon have required the development of new tactics by TU JAS. Both the Czech Republic and Hungary have signed up for the MS20 update for their Gripen C/Ds.

As well as the improvements introduced by MS20, Saab continues to explore further developments for both the C/D and E/F in terms of weapon, sensor and self-protection options. Earlier this year the company received a contract to begin the development of a new generation of its RBS 15 anti-ship missile to enter service in the mid-2020s on the Gripen E. The new version will offer a much longer range than the current weapon, and many other enhancements.

While the Gripen E/F is seen as satisfying the requirements of air arms who are looking for high-performance aircraft to perform advanced mission types, the Gripen C/D is aimed more at small air forces that require modern multi-role fighters yet face considerable budgetary constraints. The C/D’s low acquisition and operating costs are seen as strong discriminators in this market segment, in which new-build aircraft face competition from cheap-to-acquire second-hand aircraft.

Furthermore, Saab is highlighting the rapidity with which new Gripen C/Ds can be delivered, promising an 18-month turnaround from contract signature to delivery. To help meet that promise and give the company some competitive edge, Saab has initiated some long-lead items for future C/D production. While this falls far short of building “white-tail” aircraft, the company has “started essential work to shorten delivery times” for these models.

Market Outlook

Such investment may be well placed, for it is new-build C/Ds that represent the best short-term opportunities for Gripen sales, notably in three countries. Slovakia has a pressing need to replace its Russian MiG-29s and has been talking to Saab since 2015, with a new request being issued last fall. Saab has proposed a full package including the training of pilots and technicians, and highlights NATO interoperability and the good experience of the Gripen with Slovakia’s neighbor, the Czech Republic. Gripen C/D is competing in Slovakia with ex-Portuguese Lockheed Martin F-16s and surplus Tranche 1 Eurofighter Typhoons.

If Gripen is selected in Slovakia it will strengthen the aircraft’s presence in central Europe, and increases the possibility of the establishment of a maintenance facility in the region. One nation that could benefit is Bulgaria, which is also urgently seeking a MiG-29 replacement. An RFP (request for proposals) was issued in December last year, to which Saab responded with a full Gripen C/D package. The Bulgarian air force announced in April that Gripen was its preferred choice.

A third near-term strong prospect is Botswana, where discussions are ongoing following a response from the Swedish government to an RFP issued in December. In Botswana the Gripen is competing against the KAI FA-50 for an aircraft to replace ageing Northrop F-5s. If selected, Saab would provide training plus initial logistics support and maintenance for the African country's air force.

For the Gripen E/F there are two major opportunities in Europe. Sweden’s neighbor and increasingly close defense ally Finland has a requirement for between 48 and 60 aircraft to replace its Boeing F-18 Hornet fleet. The program is at the RFI (request for information) stage and the Gripen E is seen as ideal for the kind of advanced missions that the Finnish air force is seeking to undertake. The synergies of operating the same type of aircraft as Sweden in an increasingly integrated defense network are also part of the Gripen E’s attraction.

Belgium is at the RFP stage for 30 to 40 aircraft and the Gripen E is being bid against Super Hornet, Rafale, Typhoon and the Lockheed Martin F-35. Switzerland is another prospect: while the Gripen was previously selected by the Swiss air force–before a public referendum rejected the proposed purchase of new fighters–but the requirement still remains and is growing more urgent. It is probably only a matter of time before the Swiss air force embarks on a new procurement program, and one that is likely to encompass more than the 22 aircraft of the previous failed acquisition.

Arguably the most exciting prospect for the Gripen, however, lies in India, which is seeking a MiG-21 replacement that can be built in the country. The defense ministry has specified a single-engined design, which effectively leaves the Gripen pitted against the F-16. In support of its bid Saab has highlighted the success of technology transfer associated with the Brazilian Gripen program, as well as intimating the part India could play in further development, such as that of Saab’s own gallium nitride AESA fighter radar.

Elsewhere in the world Saab is watching events in Canada closely, where the Trudeau government has signaled an intention to buy the Boeing Super Hornet as an interim fighter while delaying a definitive decision on what should replace its legacy Hornet fleet. However, the Super Hornet buy has not yet been contracted and has recently come under close scrutiny. For Saab an interim buy could be seen as playing into the hands of the Gripen E/F, as a delayed decision could suit the delivery timescale better.

Other prospects for Gripen include Colombia, which is looking to replace its IAI Kfirs; Malaysia, which has been evaluating Gripen, Typhoon, Rafale and Super Hornet for some years; and the Philippines, which has a requirement for a multi-role fighter. Indonesia also has a requirement for an F-5 replacement, for which Typhoon, Gripen and F-16 are bidding as an alternative to the Sukhoi Su-35. Saab has suggested that it could install an assembly line at PTDI’s Bandung facility as part of its proposal, which could also include AEW aircraft in a package similar to that delivered to Thailand.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby kshirin » 19 Jun 2017 02:36

ArjunPanditji hit the nail on the head. We should boost our indigenous aircraft production, instead of boosting ecosystems and creating jobs in other countries, the only logical path ahead is for a DRDO- Public Sector-private sector combination to deliver the fighters we need.

In this day of America First and all that, why cant we have an India First? Plus jobs scenario isn't too great what with IT layoffs, defence manufacturing would give a huge boost to the ecosystem in India. How can we even afford to miss this chance? :(

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Wickberg » 19 Jun 2017 03:22

But how long are you ready to wait for the "India First" to bear fruit? I mean the LCA and the Gripen projects were started at the same time in the early 80´s and look where they are now, The Gripen being operational in the SwAF for 20 years, has been exported to several countries and are still developing while the LCA,,,well, it is were it is. Still in the 80´s from IAFs point of view...

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 19 Jun 2017 03:29

^^^^^

SAAB made planes in the 30s!!!!!! They have had extensive experience in aerospace. Gripen is perhaps their 10th plane.

Not to mention a captive and enthusiastic client and a highly supportive government.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Vivek K » 19 Jun 2017 03:48

So the Swede returns with his lies? Let us forget about the untruths in your statement for a while and say we accept them. I ask you - so what? The LCA may be behind the Gripen in pace of testing and manufacture but - it is ready and manufacturing facilities are nearly ready. So what is the point in investing an aircraft like the Gripen that may have nothing to teach India about aerospace tech?

And BTW the LCA is delayed ONLY because of some traitors who would like to hold off its induction so that they could induct foreign wares that help them satisfy their other desires. Check the profiles of the posters on BRF that push "roosi" (if you don't know what that means, you shouldn't be here) and you will find that they are "consultants". I will let you put two and two together as to what their motivation is.

LCA is ready, inspite of the deliberate delays caused by asking for IFR at the last minute and working with Chobham to delay the new radome.

India does not need Sweden, Sweden needs India. So go tell your tales elsewhere. You have nothing to offer tech wise or geopolitics wise. Therefore do not waste your time or money. IAF will not be buying the Gripen.
Last edited by Vivek K on 19 Jun 2017 08:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cosmo_R » 19 Jun 2017 04:16

"Originally scheduled to have flown for the first time by the end of 2016, at the time of writing Saab’s new-generation Gripen E prototype was due to fly before the end of the second quarter this year. Briefing reporters in mid-May..."

My vote FWIW

F35. It's flying now. We can't make it in India wholly anymore than any foreign ac (including the Gripen E) . Best we can do is what the Japanese/Turks/Israelis have done, A real 5G ac that comes in at at 4G prices.

It follows

MII single engined fighter is the LCA MK*.*

AMCA is the Mirage 4K version of LCA MK *.*

AMCA++ is the FGFA/PAKFA

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Jun 2017 09:53

^^^^Strange but no media reporting like, "SAAB which has decades of fighter jet design experience once again delays Gripen E by more than an year" or "Gripen E 30 years in making to contemporary plane"

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Jun 2017 10:01

Wickberg wrote:But how long are you ready to wait for the "India First" to bear fruit? I mean the LCA and the Gripen projects were started at the same time in the early 80´s and look where they are now, The Gripen being operational in the SwAF for 20 years, has been exported to several countries and are still developing while the LCA,,,well, it is were it is. Still in the 80´s from IAFs point of view...

In context of LCA, Where is the wait boss? The LCAs are rolling out from assembly line, by the time a contract is drafted (if any at all), we will have at least 1.5 extra squadron of LCA, by the time deliveries start we should have at least 3 (including the previous 1.5) extra squadron by very conservative estimates. One may have confidence in plane capabilities, but I have full confidence in oour babudom to ensure deliveries dont start before next 5 years.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Jun 2017 10:12

kshirin wrote:ArjunPanditji hit the nail on the head. We should boost our indigenous aircraft production, instead of boosting ecosystems and creating jobs in other countries, the only logical path ahead is for a DRDO- Public Sector-private sector combination to deliver the fighters we need.

In this day of America First and all that, why cant we have an India First? Plus jobs scenario isn't too great what with IT layoffs, defence manufacturing would give a huge boost to the ecosystem in India. How can we even afford to miss this chance? :(


OT
but I doubt it is that easy to reskill resources and that too quickly or get the jobs quickly(as lay offs are happening right now). Question to be discussed in Indian IT industry thread

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Philip » 19 Jun 2017 12:11

The eco situ is calamitous.Personal savings a whopping 10% down from UPA days.Industry across the board fearing GST,construction industry-which is the bell-weather for eco growth collapsing.The demand that unless you have an Aadhar card,you will get nothing, will hit the lowest and poorest most.
In lifestyle terms,dal and rotis will be staple food for all,no more 5-star jaunts whenever the stomach tickles. Hotels already reeling from the SC's liquor bombshell. As one arch-capitalist wag put it,Modi is turning all of us into Commies!"

In such an eco scenario,the services have to get real and "cut their coat according to the cloth".The 36 Rafales is an anachromnism.We cvould've got 3 MKIs for the price of just one Rafale and 6 MIG-29s for the same. What price will the Gripen come in at ? With the news that the IAF is scouring the dustbins of Malaysia for a dozen or so legacy MIG-29s,then you know how empty the GOI's purse is.

If it wants to throw away billions,then it should (if it means what it says) invest that money into the LCA and buy more made in India MKIs to beef up numbers at reasonable cost.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Kakarat » 19 Jun 2017 12:32

The gov should cancel all defense deals and buy only from Russia also remove Modi and hand over the country to Russians...
Hope this will save us from Philip or do you want anything more

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby kshirin » 19 Jun 2017 13:56

Nahin samajh mein aata hai, how national pride doesnt win over, even if there are minor delays, apna hai, has the potential to upgrade high tech ecosystem, create high value jobs IN India, fir bhi nahin samajh mein aata hai? Reading Shashi Tharoor's Era of Darkness, it is mind numbing, and while one had studied and then forgotten all the exploitation we Indians were subjected to, partly the fault also had to lie with us for allowing a tiny country to dominate and enslave us. So is it in our DNA, rooting for phoren over Indian? Am with Philip and Arjun Panditji, and it is easy to vilify anyone by labeling a true patriot as a rusi or foreign agent, but the guise is transparent and easily seen through.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Karthik S » 19 Jun 2017 17:06

Livefist‏ @livefist 11m11 minutes ago
BREAKING: Tata & @LockheedMartin sign agreement on setting up F-16 Block 70 production line in India.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ranjan.rao » 19 Jun 2017 17:21

^^^^Does that mean anything, till an agreement is signed by mod specifying the number, specifications and iaf's customisations... Reliance also had similar love making dreams till the wet dream got over at 36

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Karthik S » 19 Jun 2017 17:30

^^ I know it means nothing in itself, but just before NM's visit, this development.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ranjan.rao » 19 Jun 2017 17:37

True sir..There will be some movement for sure.. We might sign a f 16 deal there just like rafale but when intents will meet mod they'll fall flat or at least I wish so.. That's the best a tejas jingo can wish. Hope Modi and Modi don't learn from history in this case

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 19 Jun 2017 17:46

FYI.

Lockheed signs pact with Tata to make F-16 planes in India
In announcing their agreement at the Paris Airshow, Lockheed and Tata said moving the production base to India would still retain jobs in the US.

Lockheed Martin signed an agreement with India's Tata Advanced Systems on Monday to produce F-16 fighter planes in India, pressing ahead with a plan to shift its Fort Worth, Texas plant to win billions of dollars worth of order from the Indian military.

India's air force needs hundreds of aircraft to replace its Soviet-era fleet, but Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has said foreign suppliers would have to make the planes in India with a local partner to help build a domestic industrial base and cut outright imports.

But Mr. Modi's Make-in-India drive runs the risk of conflicting with U.S. President Donald Trump's America First campaign under which he has been pressing for companies to invest in the United States and create jobs instead of setting up factories abroad.

In announcing their agreement at the Paris Airshow, Lockheed and Tata said moving the production base to India would still retain jobs in the United States.

“F-16 production in India supports thousands of Lockheed Martin and F-16 supplier jobs in the U.S., creates new manufacturing jobs in India, and positions Indian industry at the center of the most extensive fighter aircraft supply ecosystem in the world,” a joint statement by the firms said.

Sweden's Saab is the other contender to supply the Indian Air Force, offering to make its Gripen fighter in India. It has not yet announced a local partner for the plane which it has pitched as a modern alternative to the F-16s.

The announcement comes days before Mr. Modi travels to Washington for a first meeting with Mr. Trump, scheduled for June. 26. India and the United States have built a close defence relationship in recent years with Washington emerging as among the top three arms suppliers to India, along with Russia and Israel.

India will also have the chance to export the F-16 that is flown by air forces around the world, the joint statement said. Some 3,200 of these planes are being flown by 26 countries and the model that is being offered to India will be Block 70, the most modern of all the F-16s.

“This unprecedented F-16 production partnership between the worlds largest defense contractor and Indias premier industrial house provides India the opportunity to produce, operate and export F-16 Block 70 aircraft, the newest and most advanced version of the worlds most successful, combat-proven multi-role fighter,” the statement said.

Tata is already building airframe components for the C-130 military transport aircraft.

India has not opened formal bidding for the jet order, which is expected to be anything from 100 planes to 250.
Last edited by NRao on 19 Jun 2017 17:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ranjan.rao » 19 Jun 2017 17:47

^^^^For all we know this might be a pressure tactic to lure trump and extract concession from chore saab

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby chola » 19 Jun 2017 18:07

In one bold move witn Tata/F-16, we can shift the our mil production from stodgy Soviet-style PSUs lIke HAL to the private sector!

This is an epic move in the making, friends. It will give us a modern MIC.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ranjan.rao » 19 Jun 2017 18:11

How chola..Su and Migs are going to remain wth us at least for a decade

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Vivek K » 19 Jun 2017 18:28

kshirin wrote:Nahin samajh mein aata hai, how national pride doesnt win over, even if there are minor delays, apna hai, has the potential to upgrade high tech ecosystem, create high value jobs IN India, fir bhi nahin samajh mein aata hai? Reading Shashi Tharoor's Era of Darkness, it is mind numbing, and while one had studied and then forgotten all the exploitation we Indians were subjected to, partly the fault also had to lie with us for allowing a tiny country to dominate and enslave us. So is it in our DNA, rooting for phoren over Indian? Am with Philip and Arjun Panditji, and it is easy to vilify anyone by labeling a true patriot as a rusi or foreign agent, but the guise is transparent and easily seen through.

Not clear which side you're on. Seems to be with both.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby chola » 19 Jun 2017 18:35

ranjan.rao wrote:How chola..Su and Migs are going to remain wth us at least for a decade


We are not producing MiGs and the MKI license is nearing an end. Remember, we are talking about production going forward not the make up of the IAF's fleet.

If HAL and the current state of our MIC is so fvcked up that we are calling for a new single engine fighter tender instead of going full bore on LCA then a fresh start with the private sector is a must.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Jun 2017 19:06

OT and perhaps has been said here umpteen no. of times here and a no. of forums on BRF:

Unfortunately this deal is not Erskine's serum that is going to transform poor steve rogers into captain america. We tried soviet style manufacturing, the same MIC that produced T-series and Su/Mig/Tu/An etc. We are where we are today not because we followed soviets instead of US, we are here because we simply didnt believe in our capabilities and pursue the path of HF 24 and then the next generations. Had we did that we probably would have a MCA/HCA of our own. USA didnt become the MIC giant that it is today because aliens taught them. They became what they are because they had no one to go to during the time of WW2 and as banner at a shipyard read(in the aftermath of pearl harbour): "It can be done and will be done".
LCA was three legged cheetah and ambassador in today's age till MP put his foot down.
But that is past, today we have LCA and the best possible course forward is to pursue to LCA/MCA/AMCA/HCA/AHCA

srai
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby srai » 19 Jun 2017 19:23

Image

ArjunPandit
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Jun 2017 19:30

Chola sir,
How's shalwar browning on Paki forums?

chola
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby chola » 19 Jun 2017 19:52

ArjunPandit wrote:Chola sir,
How's shalwar browning on Paki forums?


Ours or theirs? lol

Actually, the Indian section of PDF is so chock full of glossy pictures and gung ho news of Bharati maal that it would put our own threads to shame. To be perfectly honest. lol

The TFTA can find solace only recently when their tallest and deepest sold a few FC-1s (gets under their skinnto call it by its real name) to Myanmar.

kshirin
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby kshirin » 19 Jun 2017 20:36

We cannot build an Indian ecosystem on foreign shoulders. I am therefore with Arjun Panditji : "But that is past, today we have LCA and the best possible course forward is to pursue to LCA/MCA/AMCA/HCA/AHCA".
Rest you can chose to misinterpret, poke fun at or distort true intentions. I am now beyond caring. Seems we have gone for phoren route, twitter is awash with F16 Tata tie up news. Do celebrate. I am going to the garden to eat worms.

ArjunPandit
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Jun 2017 20:43

kshirin wrote:We cannot build an Indian ecosystem on foreign shoulders. I am therefore with Arjun Panditji : "But that is past, today we have LCA and the best possible course forward is to pursue to LCA/MCA/AMCA/HCA/AHCA".
Rest you can chose to misinterpret, poke fun at or distort true intentions. I am now beyond caring. Seems we have gone for phoren route, twitter is awash with F16 Tata tie up news. Do celebrate. I am going to the garden to eat worms.

Dont lose hope, i have confidence on ImMoDium laziness and IAF desire to get the best plane(no offense meant, they do what they need to do, they also know that a cong govt will not even let them get a paper plane unless there are kickbacks involved)

Rishi Verma
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rishi Verma » 19 Jun 2017 20:47

I prefer F/A-18 super hornet including growler variant common platform for IAF and Navy, quantity 1000 minimum. And phase out everything else including LCA and try again with AMCA, (which will be over-weight and under powered with radome issues, landing gear issues etc etc) .. So better start designing AAMCA and keep DRDO and NAL busy with foundation day lectures, Ambedkar day lectures, Children's Paper Plane Design Contest (CPPDeCont) in keeping with their Affinity for Long Acronyms (AFFLOCO) etc etc.

ramana
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2017 21:15

Rishi, F-18 is a twin engine plane and not on offer for the single engine plane buy.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Kakarat » 19 Jun 2017 21:49

kshirin wrote:We cannot build an Indian ecosystem on foreign shoulders. I am therefore with Arjun Panditji : "But that is past, today we have LCA and the best possible course forward is to pursue to LCA/MCA/AMCA/HCA/AHCA".
Rest you can chose to misinterpret, poke fun at or distort true intentions. I am now beyond caring. Seems we have gone for phoren route, twitter is awash with F16 Tata tie up news. Do celebrate. I am going to the garden to eat worms.


My views are similar and I have also been writing them to the gov through http://www.pmindia.gov.in/ in addition to expressing them on forum and twitter

I also request others to write to them at least for them to know that people are following these things and to let them know of our views hoping that some one reads it.

jahaju
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby jahaju » 19 Jun 2017 22:48

In announcing their agreement at the Paris Airshow, Lockheed and Tata said moving the production base to India would still retain jobs in the US.
....
India has not opened formal bidding for the jet order, which is expected to be anything from 100 planes to 250.


So has the requirement for F-16 already been enhanced from 100 to 250 fighters?

Cybaru
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cybaru » 19 Jun 2017 23:23

Karthik S wrote:
Livefist‏ @livefist 11m11 minutes ago
BREAKING: Tata & @LockheedMartin sign agreement on setting up F-16 Block 70 production line in India.



Signing papers is easy! look at the umpteen executive orders! go on sign paper to make Death Star too! :rotfl:


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