KrishnaK wrote:I had asked for cost vs capacity as numbers. brar_w said costs are for US fighters available along with "reasonable risk" for the LCA MK2 and cleanly forgot to respond about capacity. What's reasonable in numbers? The only path you're continuing down is being pretentious.
You said you wanted it dumbed down. And brar clearly replied to every question you asked. You have blinders on. Nobody can help you. But for the sake of others following the thread, here it is....
KrishnaK wrote:To really discuss this issue, I think we need to come up with some estimate of cost of buying and then running it for their life - a rough estimate and put some number on capacity - range, payload, readiness, avionics etc.
Paging brar_w & other forum experts - I know this question is super complicated, but can be it dumbed down?
brar_w wrote:I don't think this is very complicated. The bare bone non labor costs to operate the US aircraft are published once every few years (it is the manpower cost that adds up and is variable but this is not relevant to India). However this is all besides the point. The SEF is redundant and does not add anything different qualitatively especially when the cost is taken into account. The ship for this has sailed. Had this been the original MMRCA bid a decade ago and included only the lowest cost (life cycle) offers out of the lot, then it would have made some sense but in 2018 you aren't going to derive a whole lot of value producing these aircraft when you have the LCA MK1A and MK2 on the horizon which can be delivered in roughly equivalent timelines with reasonable risk. I mean you can buy MK1As and retire them after a decade and replace them with MK2s and still save money compared to buying the same number of F-16's or Gripens.
KrishnaK wrote:Experience with the LCA not to mention how hard it's turning out for the Russian to build their 5th Gen. Even if we were to assume Indian capacity at building fighters to be the same as Russia's, which it is not, it's still going to be a slog. This is excluding the simple fact, the IAF doesn't fancy Russian class equipment as much anymore.
What experience with the Tejas? On the contrary, everything is going smoothly. Mk1 production is humming along, No 45 Sqn has sufficient pilots to fly the birds, we are giving joyrides to ministers and foreign air chiefs, No 18 Sqn is the next to be raised, our pilots who fly it love the plane, build times are reducing, FOC will be coming in 2018, etc. We are having a wonderful time with the Tejas - both on BRF and in Bangalore.
How is Russia's experience with their fifth gen platform, got anything to do with AMCA? India is doing AMCA all on her own. Nothing of VALUE will be provided to India on AMCA. Failure or Victory, AMCA will be Indian onlee. Just like Tejas.
KrishnaK wrote:India needs a 5th gen bird BESIDES the AMCA.
Which 5th gen bird would that be? Su-57? Good luck with that!
KrishnaK wrote:Thank you, but no. I've no time for silly, pretentious games.
Come on man!
You don't like how this is turning out?
The end goal of the American MIC
I'd suggest looking at their revenues vs Indian purchases.
I look at Indian products vs Phoren products
Brar put it best, "The SEF is redundant and does not add anything different qualitatively especially when the cost is taken into account.....but in 2018 you aren't going to derive a whole lot of value producing these aircraft when you have the LCA MK1A and MK2 on the horizon which can be delivered in roughly equivalent timelines with reasonable risk."
Looking at revenues of an American company matters little to the GoI or the Indian Air Force. Nice try
KrishnaK wrote:Trotting out what Eisenhower said in 1961 is about as trite as it gets. The biggest, most profitable and consequently most influential companies today anywhere in the world sell phones, software, services and now organic tarkari. The MIC is strictly second tier.
I was just repeating what American President Eisenhower said about the MIC. Why you gotta feel so hurt and use words like trite?
Just like your bright encashed bank guarentees
idea, perhaps we can fight the PAF and PLAAF with organic tarkari. That idea is even better, than the previous one. There is veg and non-veg tarkari. Which one do you think would be most effective against the enemy?
Yes, they have placed an order 36 planes in 2015 after having projected a requirement for 126 planes in 2001.
That 36 is incomplete, without the words Rafales
coming right after
And that order was placed in 2016. And that original 126 number now stands at 50 aircraft, as 40 more Su-30MKIs have been ordered.
KrishnaK wrote:Let me repeat, the MMRCA procurement saga has resulted in 36 planes, which itself looks shaky now, after projecting a requirement for 126 in 2001. Which part of what Ashley Tellis says is wrong ?
I was just highlighting the fact that how frustration is setting in - because of the archaic bureaucratic processes in India - among US policy influencers. I even gave a link stating that. At no point, am I saying Ashley Tellis is wrong. I am saying that frustration is setting in. But you are taking this a bit too personally. An American SEF is likely coming. It just will not be the F-16.
KrishnaK wrote:Typical desi dialogue-baazi - superficially profound and meaningless at the same time.
That is what we do to Amreekis to keep them happy. We are very good at dialogue-baazi. Stroke the ego.