Pulwama Attack

chetak
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 15 Feb 2019 13:35

Kakarat wrote:A bus like the one used now can carry up to 50 passengers and you dont need a 300kg ied to shred it into pieces a simple Ak-47 fired from the sides can cause a huge no of causality. News is that the convoy had 70 vehicles and think what would have happened if the IED was between two buses

It is time we start to innovate and use our auto industry to develop something that can protect our soldiers in these conditions, the use of mine protection is less in these conditions as the convoy was on a highway. My point is instead of using simple buses we need to use Armored Ambush Protected platforms for troop movements. Even in earlier incidents army convoys have been targeted with gunfire & grenades causing causality due to soft skinned vehicles


this attack has changed the dynamics of threat assessment, defensive and offensive measures, road sanitation procedures and tactics.

It will take some time to reorient responses and the locals will try to frustrate the new measures under instructions from their pals across the border.

Understand that this is the effect of imran the puppet coming to "power" in pukiland and the paki army implementing its planned anti India program with the full knowledge of the cheeni as well as full control of imran's govt.

chetak
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 15 Feb 2019 13:39

nam wrote:I find it interesting that there is more consensus that Pak will make it a full fledge war, than over if we will ever retaliating.

A nation whose PM went to UAE begging for free oil will have go for full fledged war..


if war is thrust on us, after taking care of the usual targets, take out all the CPEC infrastructure completely, destroy gwadar and push hard for baluchistan's freedom
Last edited by chetak on 15 Feb 2019 13:41, edited 1 time in total.

Pratyush
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Pratyush » 15 Feb 2019 13:40

nam wrote:I find it interesting that there is more consensus that Pak will make it a full fledge war, than over if we will ever retaliating.

A nation whose PM went to UAE begging for free oil will have go for full fledged war..


That is more a result of us internalising the Pakistani propoganda that Kashmir is nuke flash point.

Nothing more.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Arima » 15 Feb 2019 13:44

Militarly what option is available between surgical strike and full war??

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Sumeet » 15 Feb 2019 13:44

PM Modi has said that security forces have been given a free hand.

What does this mean ?

I think its time to use IWT card. Also, China's name has to be muddied in this. Public should be made aware that China supports terrorists. This needs ti be voiced right from the top leadership and across parties.\

We should withdraw protection from Indian forces to the separatists.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Feb 2019 13:49

Arima wrote:Militarly what option is available between surgical strike and full war??


We can always to 1 strike and leave it to the Pakis whether to declare war or keep quiet. We must react with military casualties on thier side.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2019 13:53

Pratyush wrote:
nam wrote:I find it interesting that there is more consensus that Pak will make it a full fledge war, than over if we will ever retaliating.

A nation whose PM went to UAE begging for free oil will have go for full fledged war..


That is more a result of us internalising the Pakistani propoganda that Kashmir is nuke flash point.

Nothing more.


The GOI had 4 years to revitalize the armed forces. The real process began only after Pathankot attack.
If they had prepped for war, we would have had more options. Anyhow, they had constraints including a broken economy.
Right now whatever needs to be done, has to be done in a far more public fashion or at least the post action consequences need to publicized.

Hidden "jawabi karvayee" wont be sufficient for anyone.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Deans » 15 Feb 2019 13:55

Arima wrote:Militarly what option is available between surgical strike and full war??


Here are a couple:
Use heavy artillery across the LOC, to target all company/battalion/brigade HQ's and installations. Allow for Pak civilian casualties (army can't control the accuracy of shells and if a civilian home is located close to an army HQ, too bad). If we move one of our artillery divisions to the LOC, we outnumber Pak approx 2:1 in heavy artillery. Pak also has more villages within artillery range of the LOC than there are on our side (I've tried to count). Even if our civilians are targeted, many of those near the LOC have dubious loyalty and Pak needs to decide if they are going to target Kashmiri Muslims in retaliation.

Do a reverse Kargil. Seize a peak somewhere between where the LOC fence ends and the Siachen glacier. Let Pak figure out how to dislodge us.

Inside the valley, start a dirty war. Let Para-SF or good army snipers take out anyone suspected of being a militant, or active supporter. No fanfare, or publicity. Just spread the work they were killed by a rival group. Let a RAW controlled team make relatives of militant /hurriyat leaders disappear - a Gestapo tactic from WW2 called `night and fog' (imprison them in the Nicobar islands).

These measures have to be accompanied by various economic & political pressure points. e.g. impose a security tax on any country that supports terrorist groups acting against India (e.g. China and Pak) by charging a higher import duty.
Last edited by Deans on 15 Feb 2019 14:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Neshant » 15 Feb 2019 14:08

Ask US to stop IMF loans to Pakistan on the basis of this terrorism.
Last edited by Neshant on 15 Feb 2019 14:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby manjgu » 15 Feb 2019 14:09

a) I think our tepid responses in the past has emboldened the Pakis no end. When Doval gave a warning..another mumbai and we will XXX Balochistan has prevented bomb attacks in the mainland... we have ourselves treated Kashmir as a place where terrorism is acceptable and will not meet the same response as threatened for mumbai type attacks. They know there will be almost zilch retaliation for attacks in kashmir.. with a tottering economy they dont want war... b) neither can u prevent civilain traffic on roads when convoys pass..in kashmir ..big or small convoys are always travelling. There are numerous small roads merging onto the main road.... not possible. There is no good defence againt such attacks in crowded / built up areas. c) if India responds , then it will be understood for future that such attacks are not acceptable... d) this is moment of truth for Modi ji as he steps into election mode. This will become an election issue ... either way...if Modi ji responds or does not respond.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Karthik S » 15 Feb 2019 14:10

First thing regarding China, need to hit them economically. Stop import of cheap plastics, toys etc.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby JayS » 15 Feb 2019 14:11

Deans wrote:
Arima wrote:Militarly what option is available between surgical strike and full war??


Here are a couple:
Use heavy artillery across the LOC, to target all company/battalion/brigade HQ's and installations. Allow for Pak civilian casualties (army can't control the accuracy of shells and if a civilian home is located close to an army one, its too bad). If we move one of our artillery divisions to the LOC, we outnumber Pak approx 2:1 in heavy artillery. Pak also has more villages within artillery range of the LOC than there are on our side (I've tried to count). Even if our civilians are targeted, many of those near the LOC have dubious loyalty and Pak needs to decide if they are going to target Kashmiri Muslims in retaliation.

Do a reverse Kargil. Seize a peak somewhere between where the LOC fence ends and the Siachen glacier. Let Pak figure out how to dislodge us.

Inside the valley, start a dirty war. Let Para-SF or good army snipers take out anyone suspected of being a militant, or active supporter. No fanfare, or publicity. Just spread the work they were killed by a rival group. Let a RAW controlled team make relatives of militant /hurriyat leaders disappear - a Gestapo tactic from WW2 called `night and fog' (imprison them in the Nicobar islands).

These measures have to be accompanied by various economic & political pressure points. e.g. impose a security tax on any country that supports terrorist groups acting against India (e.g. China and Pak) by charging a higher import duty.

+1
The option to send fighters across LOC is gone now I think. Should have happened yesterday night. Given experience after Uri, the rats must have dispersed from their holes near LOC in POK. Unless we go deeper its gonna me meaningless.
A large scale clean up Ops is due in JK as immediate need. Let the governor rule continue and do go on bug killing spree. But in a strategic terms, we need to take the war to Paki homeland, We can keep cleaning house and kill the cockroaches but unless we clean the mess in Pakistan the roaches will keep multiplying. This kind of War of Attrition will never be ended if we keep fighting only at home. We need to fight it in Pakistan, in Afganistan.

But we need to hammer pakis on economic front. The time could never have been better for that. Just removing MFN status means zilch. We need to blanket ban any kind of import.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Deans » 15 Feb 2019 14:11

I had just visited Kashmir and drove along the Srinagar-Jammu highway, close to Pulwana, only last Sat.
The whole point of building the new highway -its a good one, is to facilitate civilian traffic and goods transport. Given the frequency of army movements, its impractical and self defeating to stop civilian movements when Army/CRPF vehicles travel.
The same kind of attack could have taken place using a ATGM or RPG, by a couple of people hidden in the woods.

There is very security on the highway, with random vehicle checking - but not to the extent that it inconveniences people. Highway security is typically with RR units and they are visible, both in an area dominance role along the highway and on likely ambush points in the woods parallel to it. I was pleasantly surprised to see that CRPF have very similar equipment and rifles as the RR (AKs or INSAS, Snow boots, white snow jackets etc).
However, their buses look to be of poor quality. Army buses have a `cage' on top where a jawan lies prone and can shoot at a VBIED, if required.
Last edited by Deans on 15 Feb 2019 14:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Neela » 15 Feb 2019 14:12

Keep the heat on but dont bring it to a boil.
Heat must be sustained on military , economic and diplomatic fronts.

. Enforce a 10 km buffer zone IN Paki territory and whenever anything comes even close to it, smash it.
But most importantly fight inside Paki territory. Not on Indian soil.

Close down ceremonies at Wagah.

Keeping repeating we want peace. Host AmanKiAsha types for Pakis in Gandhinagar. Send Suhasini Haider for these and just when the AmanKiasha meeting starts, pulverize a few posts but immediately reiterate Gandhi's ideals.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Neela » 15 Feb 2019 14:19

JayS wrote:+1
The option to send fighters across LOC is gone now I think. Should have happened yesterday night. Given experience after Uri, the rats must have dispersed from


Why?
After such an attack, all our options are open I think.

But....the fact that we have not responded immediately means we still havemorons cucks who have not modelled the scenario after 7 decades of jihad.

Edited to insert cucks.
Last edited by Neela on 15 Feb 2019 14:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby manjgu » 15 Feb 2019 14:20

time for airstrikes is very much there... which rats are u talking about... we have to target PA claiming we targetted jehadi camps. We have to say we tested RDX.. its of foreign origin... as someone said IAF should be flying..wtf is the Air Dominance fighters for?? :eek: :eek: if we cant even strike shallow across LOC...we dont have to hit PA HQ in Pindi !! we need some PA casualties and an open statement that we bombed Pakistan to begin with as a retaliation for the CRPF casualties.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2019 14:26

Regarding military options, repeating

Declared missile strike on LeT & JeM HQ.

Undeclared Air strikes across PA positions in Pak. Pak will show pictures, but deny with a straight face. If Pak retaliates, announce it is attacking in support of JeM & LeT , as we have attacked only terror HQ and India will fight in defense.

US will pressurize Pak for ceasefire to prevent "escalation" or ask Pak to limit to J&K. Suits both the scenario for us.

For the long term, first consider Pak as an enemy. Then we can decide on steps.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2019 14:27

JayS wrote:The option to send fighters across LOC is gone now I think. Should have happened yesterday night. Given experience after Uri, the rats must have dispersed from their holes near LOC in POK.


Yes, they have gone.. to place they would think is safe. PA camps.

Saves us from bombing two places.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chola » 15 Feb 2019 14:33

Time to do in Kashmir what Cheen has done in Xinjiang. When the locals are rallying around a suicide bomber and mobbing officials who are investigating then a line is crossed. Control every single inch and track the entire f*cking population. Squeeze out, imprison and kill every possible terrorist and supporter.

Pakistan we’ll hit I’m sure of it but we need to ironclad Kashmir first and foremost.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby prasan » 15 Feb 2019 14:37

Deans wrote:
Arima wrote:Militarly what option is available between surgical strike and full war??


Here are a couple:
Use heavy artillery across the LOC, to target all company/battalion/brigade HQ's and installations. Allow for Pak civilian casualties (army can't control the accuracy of shells and if a civilian home is located close to an army HQ, too bad). If we move one of our artillery divisions to the LOC, we outnumber Pak approx 2:1 in heavy artillery. Pak also has more villages within artillery range of the LOC than there are on our side (I've tried to count). Even if our civilians are targeted, many of those near the LOC have dubious loyalty and Pak needs to decide if they are going to target Kashmiri Muslims in retaliation.

Do a reverse Kargil. Seize a peak somewhere between where the LOC fence ends and the Siachen glacier. Let Pak figure out how to dislodge us.

Inside the valley, start a dirty war. Let Para-SF or good army snipers take out anyone suspected of being a militant, or active supporter. No fanfare, or publicity. Just spread the work they were killed by a rival group. Let a RAW controlled team make relatives of militant /hurriyat leaders disappear - a Gestapo tactic from WW2 called `night and fog' (imprison them in the Nicobar islands).

These measures have to be accompanied by various economic & political pressure points. e.g. impose a security tax on any country that supports terrorist groups acting against India (e.g. China and Pak) by charging a higher import duty.

And control media and supreme court from negative publicity

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Lilo » 15 Feb 2019 14:38

Prem wrote:
abhik wrote:After many years of being in BRF, I have learnt to avoid expressions of impotent rage after events like this. Rather spend the effort on updates and analysis.

Anger clouds judgement and impotent anger give pleasure to enemy .
^Well said.

Every one should watch this video starting from @11:40

https://youtu.be/SKIKe_u1lNQ?t=704
Last edited by Lilo on 15 Feb 2019 14:40, edited 3 times in total.

Karthik S
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Karthik S » 15 Feb 2019 14:39

chola wrote:Time to do in Kashmir what Cheen has done in Xinjiang. When the locals are rallying around a suicide bomber and mobbing officials who are investigating then a line is crossed. Control every single inch and track the entire f*cking population. Squeeze out, imprison and kill every possible terrorist and supporter.

Pakistan we’ll hit I’m sure of it but we need to ironclad Kashmir first and foremost.


I don't think this govt has even thoughts on doing so. Still providing security to separatists, releasing 9000 odd stone pelters from prisons, dealing with them in kid gloves manner in the middle of operation, when asked why no protection for students in NIT Srinagar, ram madhav replied, did students go to study or "do politics", for him unfurling national flag is doing politics. The list goes on.
Apart from the lone surgical strike, this govt has been a big pu$$yfooting in taking tough action in kashmir.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2019 14:41

has india ever withdrawn MFN status to TSP ? when was it granted?

what is the economic impact of this on trader lobby in delhi and punjab?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2019 14:43

By the way, did we have anyone from Pak side say "India dare not yet attack us, we are nook power" since yesterday?

Intriguing..generally we have this come out first.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby sunnyP » 15 Feb 2019 14:59

Singha wrote:has india ever withdrawn MFN status to TSP ? when was it granted?

what is the economic impact of this on trader lobby in delhi and punjab?


It was granted in 1996.

Image

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Sumeet » 15 Feb 2019 15:02

Singha wrote:has india ever withdrawn MFN status to TSP ? when was it granted?

what is the economic impact of this on trader lobby in delhi and punjab?


Singha this will impact trade exports from pakistan because now we can impose any arbitrary duty on their item. Wondering how much is trade from Pakistan coming into India ??

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby hnair » 15 Feb 2019 15:03

Paki trade with india seem routed via mostly Jebel Ali. So things can be relabeled without much fuss for pakis. It always has a Nimitz parked around. So we got to see how that gets played out

But kudos to this govt, that MFN charade is over, finally!

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2019 15:09

its the puppet master cheen who must be made to pay a price too on the borderlands and in trade.
I say time to kick huawei out and dare the others to get out also if they want.


@ShivAroor
1h1 hour ago
More
BREAKING: For the fourth time, China today declines India's request on Jaish founder Maulana Masood Azhar

@ShivAroor
18h18 hours ago
More
China has THRICE blocked India's move to have Jaish founder Maulana Masood Azhar blacklisted by the @UN:

1. March 2016
2. Nov 2017
3. July 2018

China's official excuse: "no consensus on Masood Azhar's role in terror attacks in India".


@ShivAroor
19h19 hours ago
More
Let there be no misconceptions about who protects Jaish-e-Mohammad. Pakistan is small potatoes. We already know they fund/train Jaish. True global power shielding Jaish is China. As death toll rises today, let nobody forget how China has consistently blocked action against Jaish.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby hnair » 15 Feb 2019 15:16

Long overdue in starting an Uighyur Liberation Front office or two at Delhi. Paki's friends like Turkey can readily agree to that action

VBIED is a big escalation and cheen need to answer for this clearly

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Prasad » 15 Feb 2019 15:27

There are a whole list of things we need to do diplomatically. IWT, One China, Chinese electronics companies, banks and financial companies that have presence in porkistan and/or work with PA, PF, PN in other countries need to be banned from working in India or abroad with India. Bring the crore kamandus to their knees financially first. Mil options are always on the table.

UNSC resolution will never come about with China blocking it. No point going there. One China, Tibet need to be raked up again. No more goody goody behaviour and Wuhan-reset nonsense. Sooner we get real and start cracking, the better.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2019 15:33

What will having a UNSC resolution help? LeT chief is contesting election with declared terrorist status.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby abhijitm » 15 Feb 2019 15:39

This nehru syndrome of running to UN is in our politicians' DNA. Nobody is immune. "We will go to UN and we will isolate our enemy. Satyamev jayate"

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 15 Feb 2019 15:41

hnair wrote:Paki trade with india seem routed via mostly Jebel Ali. So things can be relabeled without much fuss for pakis. It always has a Nimitz parked around. So we got to see how that gets played out

But kudos to this govt, that MFN charade is over, finally!


paki designer panjabi salwar suits for women are freely available in many cities and these are being sold by ladies from apartments and houses and not paying any taxes either. It looks like a huge racket is under way.

Additionally, the benign govt in dilli has always turned a blind eye to paki trade from/via dubai.

We need to allow such trade to "flourish" but slap them with very high and prohibitively expensive duties that effectively jack up the landed prices of all such goods by 600-800 percent.

If relabelled goods are found, jail immediately without recourse to bail.
Last edited by chetak on 15 Feb 2019 15:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Bart S » 15 Feb 2019 15:41

nam wrote:What will having a UNSC resolution help? LeT chief is contesting election with declared terrorist status.


The UN by itself is useless, but having the UN declare them as terrorists helps with ramping up pressure on Pakistan via FATF etc

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Bart S » 15 Feb 2019 15:46

chandrasekaran wrote:I am hoping that India starts its massive disproportionate retaliation just after they move all the bodies of the Martyrs out of that place. The retaliation must happen before the bodies are cremated.


Are you living in some parallel universe? The news today is that home ministry has stopped movement of all security forces convoys (possibly at the time that they are most needed while the terrorists are trying to melt away) in order to avoid 'conflicts' with locals.

http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2019/ ... 99af397fe4

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2019 15:53

Bart S wrote:
nam wrote:What will having a UNSC resolution help? LeT chief is contesting election with declared terrorist status.


The UN by itself is useless, but having the UN declare them as terrorists helps with ramping up pressure on Pakistan via FATF etc


But for what? Parliament attack happened when Pak was under severe sanctions.

Our "world must do something" attitude is what allows Pak to continue the game and also for countries like US & China find it a wonderful rental state.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby SSridhar » 15 Feb 2019 15:55

Singha wrote: . . . China's official excuse: "no consensus on Masood Azhar's role in terror attacks in India".

In UNSC, only one country opposed that and it was China. Is that called a 'no consensus'?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby SSridhar » 15 Feb 2019 15:57

There is no one silver bullet for Pakistan, much less China.

Pakistan must be inflicted pain everywhere, every possible where.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ryogi » 15 Feb 2019 15:58

Seems like a good time to call for an emergency session of Parliament to abolish Art 370; the Cun*gress will have no choice but to fall in line, albeit kicking and screaming, as even fence-sitting liberals are realizing the public anger.

I'd say:
1. Withdraw MFN (done)
2. Abolish 370, withdraw all journalists, complete curfew in valley till the KMs come to their knees.
3. Withdraw from IWT

AND then let them know that Rawat's boys are coming.

That would be a good start, without a shot fired.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Neela » 15 Feb 2019 16:01

Indian HC called back from Pakistan


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