Pulwama Attack

Arima
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Arima » 15 Feb 2019 16:02

hnair wrote:Long overdue in starting an Uighyur Liberation Front office or two at Delhi. Paki's friends like Turkey can readily agree to that action

VBIED is a big escalation and cheen need to answer for this clearly


supporting Uighyur will be bad idea. we need to support those who like India. in that front Tibetans are 1000 times loyal and good people.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Bart S » 15 Feb 2019 16:03

nam wrote:
Bart S wrote:
The UN by itself is useless, but having the UN declare them as terrorists helps with ramping up pressure on Pakistan via FATF etc


But for what? Parliament attack happened when Pak was under severe sanctions.

Our "world must do something" attitude is what allows Pak to continue the game and also for countries like US & China find it a wonderful rental state.


You are looking for spectacular, all or nothing options. Stuff like FATF, UN sanctions and many other similar smaller and seemingly ineffective steps help to make Pakistan's terror operations that much harder and restrict their options, which is better than giving them a free run.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby SSridhar » 15 Feb 2019 16:04

ryogi wrote:2. Abolish 370, withdraw all journalists, complete curfew in valley till the KMs come to their knees.

ryogi, I agree with all three, but timing is important, I wouldn't prefer the above now. We should focus on punishing TSP. We do not need to take on unnecessary issues at this time. All in good time though.

I agree that we should 'suspend' IWT now and not listen to anybody because there would be a hue and cry from other nations. I am sure this is in the works.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Neela » 15 Feb 2019 16:07

https://mobile.twitter.com/ANI/status/1 ... 5160999938

Delhi: Pakistan High Commissioner to India Sohail Mahmood at MEA after being summoned by Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale. #PulwamaAttack

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Nihat » 15 Feb 2019 16:14

We need a proper objective and escalation matrix to deal with these kind of situations. The surgical strikes had a defined purpose of pushing terrorists further back, though I don't know if that had the desired impact.

Clearly that has not deterred them enough and we need to go a step further. Militarily I would absolutely hate to sacrifice our even risk the life of even one more jawan. Perhaps a more stand off approach could be used directly targeting the office cardre of the PA. Let's see if they have the guts to respond.

But something needs to be done

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Peregrine » 15 Feb 2019 16:19

hnair wrote:Paki trade with india seem routed via mostly Jebel Ali. So things can be relabeled without much fuss for pakis. It always has a Nimitz parked around. So we got to see how that gets played out

But kudos to this govt, that MFN charade is over, finally!
hnair Ji :

Would it not be possible to BAN ALL GOODS OF TERRORISTANI ORIGIN AND CONFISCATE SAME at the Ports/Docks on Arrival. In addition the Customs could check all goods arriving from PG countries which are likely to contain Terroristani Origin Gooda.

For your Information : I have seen "Indian" Brand Basmati Rice - all over Europe - wherein the "Country of Origin" is not mentioned! We have our own Jaichands buying "Cheap" Terroristani Origin Rice and Selling if under Indian Brand Name. :evil:

Finally all Passengers - Terroristani or Indian or even Third Country - by Land or Air should have their Baggage Checked and Terroristani Origin Goods confiscated.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby habal » 15 Feb 2019 16:20

pakistan's military establishment has been pushing it's luck and crying for punishment for quite some time now. They gave up all niceties after stripping away NS from PMship and openly rigged elections. The cry for punishment is getting louder by the day and now the day has come to throw caution to the winds and take the challenge head on of finishing off the illigitimate pakjabi military 'establishment' which as such do not have any support of balochi, sindhi pashtoons or gilgitis.

Can not India finish off a runt pakjabi run establishment and it's two main control centres of Lahore and Islamabad. Just 2 cities. And rest will unravel automatically.

It's a crying shame and blot that many Indian politicians are fooling and playing around while a runt pakjabi run establishment gets cockier by the minute.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby habal » 15 Feb 2019 16:31

If India has to become a super power or an asian power it has to utilize these opportunities given by pakjabi establishment and when we will indeed finish off the pakjabis our growth will be 2.5 times what it is now and nothing will be able to stop us.

India must stop showing timidity and insecurity and shy away from conflict, because a conflict today can solve a hell of a lot of our problems. This is both a tragedy and an opportunity that has presented itself to us and we need to call the paki bluff once and for all.

Our Mil Ind complex will mature only with wars otherwise we will keep fooling ourselves with imports that will have only limited life during any prolonged conflict.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chola » 15 Feb 2019 16:36

^^^ We will hit Pakistan but like the surgical strikes the effects will always be fleeting — unless we want a general war with the naPakis now.

And even if we reduce Pakistan to dust will that stop the terrorists? In fact, it will probably increase 10-fold with more cave dwellers.

Things done within the borders will be far more effective and long lasting. If we have the guts to do it.

Do a Xinjiang in Kashmir. I see talk about supporting Uighur fronts? What makes you think Khan hasn’t done that? Several thousands of them fought for AlQaeda in Syria. But so what can they do when Xinjiang is locked up as a concentration camp and every muslim tagged and tracked as a dangerous animal?

Or do a Myanmar. For all of the world’s self righteous bellyaching, the Burmese diminished the threat to their Rhakine state perhaps permanently by exorcising it of a population more loyal to Mecca than Rangoon and indeed Burmese culture and civilization. If you want to support a medieval theocracy then f*cking go live in one. You and your whole clan.

As long we cannot fully control what’s inside the borders then all we do outside the borders is nothing but a fig leaf.
Last edited by chola on 15 Feb 2019 16:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Pulwama Attack

Postby Peregrine » 15 Feb 2019 16:40

ryogi wrote:2. Abolish 370, withdraw all journalists, complete curfew in valley till the KMs come to their knees.

SSridhar wrote:ryogi, I agree with all three, but timing is important, I wouldn't prefer the above now. We should focus on punishing TSP. We do not need to take on unnecessary issues at this time. All in good time though.

I agree that we should 'suspend' IWT now and not listen to anybody because there would be a hue and cry from other nations. I am sure this is in the works.
SSridhar Ji

In suspending the IWT is there a chance of the "Unfairness" of the Quantum of distribution of the Indus Waters on the Basis of Terroristan get 80.2% and India getting a measly 19.8% whereas in the Rio Grande Waters sharing - I believe - THE USA gets 50% of Rio Grande Waters plus ALL THE WATERS OF THE COLORADO RIVER AND ITS TRIBUTARIES!

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby habal » 15 Feb 2019 16:42

With today's weaponry levels and defeat of pakjabi army there will be no infiltration as our forces will be posted inside pakjab and we can do to them exactly as they did with that baloch youth. Frankly what prevents USA from dismantling taliban, it is just human rights fantasies and refusal to attack pakistan, else today there would be no taliban.

where is ISIS, Nusra, FSA etc today ?? These cannot win against WMDs employed by professional armies.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2019 16:43

How did we stop militancy in Punjab? For every attack in Punjab, there were corresponding response in cities of Pak.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Pratyush » 15 Feb 2019 16:43

SSridhar wrote:
Singha wrote: . . . China's official excuse: "no consensus on Masood Azhar's role in terror attacks in India".

In UNSC, only one country opposed that and it was China. Is that called a 'no consensus'?


PRC needs to be smacked in the face. The JeM claims credit and there is no consensus on its leader. We must call out hypocrisy.

Same goes for TSP. If they don't hand him over. This becomes a legitimate cause for going to war.

In a way this is a lot better than parliament attack or 26/11. All ambiguity has been removed.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Bart S » 15 Feb 2019 16:44

^WRT the IWT, the logic is simple:
India does not need the IWT
It was a favour/concession to Pakistan with the goal of having good neighborly relations in return
Pakistan clearly hasn't reciprocated the good faith shown, despite reaping disproportionate benefits from the IWT
Apart from the above, it was never something ratified/approved by the Indian parliament

I think we have enough justification to revoke it as it is, and this is a golden opportunity to do so.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby IndraD » 15 Feb 2019 16:47

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 005560.cms

what does scrapping MFN status to Pakistan mean

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Peregrine » 15 Feb 2019 16:50

Bart S wrote:^WRT the IWT, the logic is simple:
India does not need the IWT
It was a favour/concession to Pakistan with the goal of having good neighborly relations in return
Pakistan clearly hasn't reciprocated the good faith shown, despite reaping disproportionate benefits from the IWT
Apart from the above, it was never something ratified/approved by the Indian parliament

I think we have enough justification to revoke it as it is, and this is a golden opportunity to do so.
Bart S Ji :

One of Nehru's Disaster was that the I W T was NEITHER Presented to nor Approved by the INDIAN PARLIAMENT!

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby habal » 15 Feb 2019 16:54

As per TSPA establishment logic, entire country is full of RaW agents and only handful are patriotic so going by that logic is it wise to finish off the handful of patriots out of their misery or allow the pakjabi 'patriots' to wipe out an entire country.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Kakarat » 15 Feb 2019 17:04

The best reply to pak is not open war but covert war
We must first takeout the pro paks and also start taking out the terror leaders and organisers across the border

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby mave_tg » 15 Feb 2019 17:17

FREE TIBET!!!

Say No to Chinese Products..

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby habal » 15 Feb 2019 17:18

We are paying price for our own duplicity and cowardice, we do not really grieve for those killed in umpteen terror strikes and just want to stay in our own bubbles and safe zones. When entire meritocracy in a country thinks along those lines and think that bad things only happen to others. These kind of attacks happen.

I think even God left us and may punish us for displaying such high level of inertia. Pakistan will be punished one way or other but India will also have to suffer as it's rulers have foregone their karma towards their citizens.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby anupmisra » 15 Feb 2019 17:22

Watch this in entirety.


Arima
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Arima » 15 Feb 2019 17:23

Lets not forget the response we give back to Pak should deter doklam 2.0 in future. Cheen pak tehzeeb is deep.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Sumeet » 15 Feb 2019 17:30

Petition to remove Sidhu from Kapil Sharma show. Sidhu said something pretty despicable "Terror has no nationality" absolving Pakistan off the responsibility for this attack.

Please sign it and broadcast

https://www.change.org/p/sony-entertain ... 158662f555

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby tsarkar » 15 Feb 2019 17:32

Kakarat wrote:First to protect our soldiers from attacks we must shift from the present non armored platforms to Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected platforms

Kakarat Ji we have ample Cassipir and OFB built Yuktirath derivatives but for operations. For non operational activities, like ferrying troops from operational areas to railway station for leave or training or picking up soldiers from railway station returning from leave and training and conveying them to operational areas, general transport is used. Also, the troops are unarmed when going on leave, because once they board the train and it departs the state, there is no need for the soldier to carry firearms. Assuming they are given firearms during transit, then it becomes a challenge collecting and depositing them back in the base armory as railway stations dont have armouries.

There is a security detail for such movements but they are often overwhelmed. In this case, a vehicle came from a service road laden with explosives after the security detail had passed ahead.

Also, MRAP vehicles have a logistics trail more than COTS vehicles. So more soldiers need to be deployed for maintenance and for transporting fuel for them. More weight means more fuel consumption. The Taliban often targeted American oil tankers.

The militants had intel of the movement. They would have observed previous movements. The attack is similar to the 2015 Manipur attack and the BSF Bus Attack near Udhampur.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bsf-jaw ... ly-1270050

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 507222.ece

In the BSF bus attack, the security detail took out the terrorists despite being gravely injured.

As mentioned in the above article each bus carries 44 personnel and going by the number of casualties, looks like the Scorpio took out an entire busload.

Going forward, the civilians will lose their right to use the highway when a military convoy is moving.
Last edited by tsarkar on 15 Feb 2019 17:33, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2019 17:33

My suggestions:

1.In-depth fire assault on Pak border posts for extended periods, all up to a week or more, as required. Tactical objective, casualty levels upto 10x of this attack. 400 for 40 of ours. Emphasis on senior cadre.
2.Withdraw from IWT. Meeting in Parliament to ratify this, and to ensure it goes above a temporary policy decision.
3.All Pak items in India to be banned, no Pak items can be imported, period.
4.Cancellation of all feel good initiatives in J&K in the specific militancy supporting regions. Full blown kinetic ops to target over ground workers.
5.Withdrawal of security to all the Hurriyat rats.
6.Build up WWR for a real conflict.
7.Once fire-assault phase is over, begin cross border ops which make the TSP BAT look like childs play. Use any and all methods. Mine commonly used approaches. Use snipers. Use any and all means to make the LOC as hot for them as it has been for us.
8. Withdraw all our diplomatic personnel from TSP, leave only a skeleton staff behind. They too are at risk.
9. Full spigot of funding opened to ANA & Afghan intel to contest the Durand line and reclaim their territory.
10. Full spigot of funding and training (moral and diplomatic support only etc of the right kind y'see) to Baloch, Sindh and all the oppressed Pakistanis who want to overthrow their Pakjabi oppressors.
11. Extra punitive tax on all firms which openly operate in TSP and want to operate in India as well. Upto the discretion of GOI whether to waive the tax or not.
12. Oppose any aid or financial assistance given to TSP in any aid fora.
13. Funding available for any and every TSP org that does targeted hits for money, against Jaish, LET etc. Enough criminals in TSP who will do it.
14. Talk to Iran about paying back TSP in the same coin on their side as well.
15. Make 10x casualty levels an official part of our response doctrine.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby abhijitm » 15 Feb 2019 17:34

mave_tg wrote:FREE TIBET!!!

Say No to Chinese Products..

one enemy at a time. Lets see what modi does to punish pak. So far 'at time of choosing' type congressi language doesn't give you much confidence other than at the max there will be another surgical strike or so. If this is the worst terror attack on forces then ideally punishment should be more severe. Lets see.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Suresh S » 15 Feb 2019 17:37

This valentine day massacre will prove to be a defining moment in the history of modern India. India will not remain the same after this . Pakistan just will not remain. There will not be any surgical strikes but there will be strikes, very public. Time to be determined by Indian armed forces.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Arima » 15 Feb 2019 17:41

what MEA officials told to Pak officials after summons?? any news?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby rajithn » 15 Feb 2019 17:45

Gagan wrote:How did 350 Kgs of I assume RDx type explosive reach the valley
This couldn’t have come in via the LoC
It went in via the Jammu-Srinagar highway through Punjab
If drugs come into Punjab, then explosives can come in too
Did this come in via the Bangladesh border into a safe house in WB?
There has been a spate of explosive and weapon seizures in WB in the last few years

Also the Scorpio was packed with the explosive in a garage somewhere in the valley. The group of terrorists are still in the area, or are on the highway, getting out of the Valley as we speak


There is no way this quantity of explosives came through routes that the security agencies traditionally have an eye on. May have come from deep south (parts of South TN, Central to North Kerala, Karnataka etc) , ferried across the length of the country over a period of time.

This is perhaps not the only such vehicle set up. There could be others which may have left the state to other parts (ref to intel inputs of strikes in Guj, Del etc).

There was something very strange that occurred today: In the PM's speech he specifically referred to "patriotic citizens sending accurate information to the agencies". Has never happened before in public.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Khalsa » 15 Feb 2019 17:51

Karan M wrote:My suggestions:

1.In-depth fire assault on Pak border posts for extended periods, all up to a week or more, as required. Tactical objective, casualty levels upto 10x of this attack. 400 for 40 of ours. Emphasis on senior cadre.



Been thinking hard about that point and YES and NO
Let me present what was planned to really EFF up Pakistan after Kargil

https://greaterkashmir.com/article/news.aspx?story_id=310238&catid=2&mid=53&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1 ...

You just need to add 2 X Zeroes at the end of 30
Time to take back Pakistan Illegally Occupied Means by FORCE !!

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Khalsa » 15 Feb 2019 17:57

How did 350 Kgs of I assume RDx type explosive reach the valley


It does not need to come in a single trip.
It can come in 3.5 Kg packs brought across in 100 trips across the loc via foot.

The point is ... they have upped the game.
When are we ...

Enough of this fortress mentality .... I saw the BSF and CRPF do this in Punjab.
The army changed the game in Mizoram and Punjab.

At one time an understrength company would be night patrolling outisde a village.

Enough of this fortress mentality and safe corridors Soviet style.
Lets take the war to PoK....

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ArjunPandit » 15 Feb 2019 17:58

^^guys, I am thinking that we do protests globally in front of pakistani embassies. I am based outta london/nyc in coming weeks happy to plan saturday/sunday. Till the time armed forces do their job, let's do some bit at our end too

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2019 18:05

ISI seem to have activated it's social media gang on tweeter.. suddenly noticing flooding of tweets on a trending topic i was following on Pulwama.

It was awfully quiet from Pak side so far..

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby RKumar » 15 Feb 2019 18:32

My short list based on "Karan M" suggestions:

0. Massive one time Air/Missile raids on all terrorist launch pads across the border. [Should have happen within first 24 hrs]
1.In-depth fire assault on Pak border posts for extended periods, all up to a week or more, as required. Tactical objective, casualty levels upto 10x of this attack. 400 for 40 of ours. Emphasis on senior cadre.
2.Withdraw from IWT. Meeting in Parliament to ratify this, and to ensure it goes above a temporary policy decision.
3. Give RAW/rewards orders to collect pigs lets trophies.
5.Withdrawal of security to all the Hurriyat rats.
7.Once fire-assault phase is over, begin cross border ops which make the TSP BAT look like childs play. Use any and all methods. Mine commonly used approaches. Use snipers. Use any and all means to make the LOC as hot for them as it has been for us.
8. Withdraw all our diplomatic personnel from TSP, leave only a skeleton staff behind. They too are at risk.
9. Full spigot of funding opened to ANA & Afghan intel to contest the Durand line and reclaim their territory.
10. Full spigot of funding and training (moral and diplomatic support only etc of the right kind y'see) to Baloch, Sindh and all the oppressed Pakistanis who want to overthrow their Pakjabi oppressors.
15. Make 10x casualty levels an official part of our response doctrine.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2019 18:34

for a start, huawei and ZTE must by govt decree banned from all contracts in india.

and indian operators given 1 year to replace their gear.

lets impose some cost on china. their telco products are now a pariah in OECD and india is their last major market left.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby wig » 15 Feb 2019 18:36

for starters the govt needs to do away with Art 35A and Art 370.
presently Jammu is facing a curfew since morning to curb nationalist protests. This IMVHO was not required

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2019 18:42


chetak
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 15 Feb 2019 18:46

meanwhile, we have our own traitors to contend with.

this is after the pak based jaish has already claimed responsibility for the attack.


Image

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby syam » 15 Feb 2019 18:48

Challenge #11--How to Regain Control of the Border from the Taliban. During the deployment it became obvious that more emphasis needed to be placed on "securing the border." This awareness grew as the enemy changed strategy and began to detonate increasing numbers of VBIEDs not only in our three provinces, but also in the Afghan capital. The most direct road from Pakistan to Kabul was the Gardez-Khowst road, which ran directly through our AO. While typical roadside IEDs consisted of 30 to 50 pounds of Home Made Explosive (HME), a VBIED carried hundreds and sometimes thousands of pounds of HME. Simultaneously to these increasing numbers of VBIED detonations taking place, our BCT's efforts at improving Afghan Border Police (ABP) capabilities began to pay off. The Brigade Special Troops Battalion (BSTB) had the mission of assisting the ABP and worked hard to improve ABP facilities and provide professional training for all ABP personnel. As ABP capabilities and morale increased, they began to capture some VBIEDs attempting to cross into Afghanistan at border checkpoints. When this happened the driver would often flee back across the border to Pakistan before he could be detained by the ABP.

With the growing numbers of enemy VBIEDs crossing from Pakistan into Afghanistan and the increasing effectiveness of the ABP at capturing them, the brigade staff formed a working group to determine what more could be done to attack this issue. The Brigade S2 Section's contribution was largely through Geospatial Intelligence (GEOINT) analysis. The two-person GEOINT Cell went to work pulling the latest imagery for the approximately 200 miles of border the BCT had with Pakistan, annotating every road and trail large enough for vehicular use. There were many enemy Route and Transit lines crisscrossing the border area, but we specifically targeted the ones large enough for vehicle traffic. The analysis was passed to the BSTB Commander and Brigade Engineer, who worked to get Afghan crews to close off as many of the roads as possible. The only roads allowed to remain open were those which had an Afghan international crossing station or ABP checkpoint. All other roads were physically blocked by construction crews.

This combination of both increasing the capability of the ABP and blocking all non-essential roads blunted the enemy's strategy, and the ABP continued to get better at identifying VBIEDs and stopping them at the border. Nonetheless, while our joint U.S./Afghan efforts stopped many of the VBIEDs constructed inside Pakistan from crossing into Afghanistan, the enemy continued to adapt. Soon, they began moving larger amounts of HME across the border by foot to construct VBIEDs inside Afghanistan. Consequently, our targeting focus changed as we began to look for indicators of VBIED construction sites inside Khowst and other provinces.



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