Pulwama Attack

[SaiK]

21-member Jaish squad entered Kashmir in Dec'

6 saw houries.. 15 are hiding somewhere perhaps with more RDX and IEDs

[bharotshontan]

I agree with 370 repeal, but this is not the full solution or even 50% of the way to the full solution. Maybe in the ballpark of 20%.

How many Hindus are willing to go settle and build from bottom up in a rabid Islamist hole like Kashmir valley? We do palayan in the middle of Hindu majority India like Kairana to even neighborhoods in Mumbai to Kolkata.

I beg to defer.
1) Allocate free plots to people from badlands of UP, Bihar, Haryana, Punjab. They know how to take care of themselves and muzzle those that need to be. As a bonus, it will depopulate these states.
2) We can do a MANREGA project to build and settle 500 self-sustaining model villages, each with a population of 10,000+. If UP can build 14 million toilets in 17 months...
3) Offer 0% corporate tax for construction companies and 0% tax for all industries setting up shop there.
4) BJP should encourage/nudge SME's and MME's in the states they rule to expand there. No need for large scale industries, that will happen later and on its own.
5) Majority of Kashmiri youths will get govt postings only in North East and the Southern States. Same goes for college admissions.

Okay, thanks for this post. I agree with the methods thought out here.

[Primus]

Primus it is easy to look after them when they are dead. It is a lot more difficult to look after them and support them when they are serving in these hot beds.
SOP states that if the three layer of the perimeter is breached then it is shoot first and ask questions later in the valley.
So a soldier follows SOP and ends up in prison.
I sometime feel that all this money is an easy way out than doing the right thing when it is really required!!!

Perhaps you are right. It is easy for one to click on a button to donate, although in my experience it is extremely hard to get people to do so even for well deserved causes such as this. Perhaps the hardest thing for a person to do is to open his purse for somebody else. Maybe I am just being cynical.

I agree the soldiers were following SOP in a part of the world where your hands are tied. Which is part of the problem in Kashmir. The fact that the officers led from the front speaks volumes about the character and courage of the Indian army, reminds me of Kargil where so many officers lost their lives. I can't think of any better way to 'look after the soldiers' than their officer risking his own life alongside theirs.
Yes, the government could provide them with better equipment and better infrastructure, I believe it is doing the best it can. A far cry from the 1962 debacle where the soldiers were sent into battle wearing canvas shoes in the sub-freezing temperatures.

As for "doing the right thing when it is really required", I don't know what that is.

[ramana]

Ok. Syam has been un-banned and is good to post again.
His anger was against stone-pelters and got banned due to misperception on my part.

[Bishwa]

"[IndraD"]in the army op which went through night 3 JeM eliminated but whats worrying is too many army officers injured ...
a captain
a brigadier
3 soldiers KIA
a DIG
a major killed

can some one pls explain why so many moralities and injuries on our side to capture 3 terrorists and why so many high ranking officials at site?

It seems one of the terrorist was in the cowshed (the 3rd one) and may have gone unnoticed initially. He fired on the senior officers injuring the Brigadier, DIG and Lt Col. He was then eliminated.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 055712.cms

[Primus]

Folks, got this from a friend. I have signed and forwarded much as I could. Don't know if this will make any difference but every little bit is helpful. Please sign the petition to the President of India to abolish Article 370 here:

http://chng.it/ttBZThFLYf

[ramana]

I think among these pelters are also the so called "mukhbirs" or informers. Who need to mingle with other stone pelters in order to prove their loyalty to the mob. I guess after exchanging some crisp gandhis with the armed forces, quickly turncoat. Perhaps that might also be a reason why we don't go after them hammer & tongs

A few years back Shiv had made a model of the terrorist, stone pelter security forces interaction.
I wish I could find it here. The stone pelters are the light to medium core terrorists giving facade of civilian cover to aid and abet the hard core terrorists.

[Primus]

I think among these pelters are also the so called "mukhbirs" or informers. Who need to mingle with other stone pelters in order to prove their loyalty to the mob. I guess after exchanging some crisp gandhis with the armed forces, quickly turncoat. Perhaps that might also be a reason why we don't go after them hammer & tongs

A few years back Shiv had made a model of the terrorist, stone pelter security forces interaction.
I wish I could find it here. The stone pelters are the light to medium core terrorists giving facade of civilian cover to aid and abet the hard core terrorists.

I believe it was his 'oil droplet' model, which applies not just to this, but also to various other mob activities.

[shynee]

https://twitter.com/DrGPradhan/status/1 ... 9843459073

[ks_sachin]

I think among these pelters are also the so called "mukhbirs" or informers. Who need to mingle with other stone pelters in order to prove their loyalty to the mob. I guess after exchanging some crisp gandhis with the armed forces, quickly turncoat. Perhaps that might also be a reason why we don't go after them hammer & tongs

A few years back Shiv had made a model of the terrorist, stone pelter security forces interaction.
I wish I could find it here. The stone pelters are the light to medium core terrorists giving facade of civilian cover to aid and abet the hard core terrorists.

Ramana sir,

Any idea where Shiv saar is?

Regards

[salaam]

A few years back Shiv had made a model of the terrorist, stone pelter security forces interaction.
I wish I could find it here. The stone pelters are the light to medium core terrorists giving facade of civilian cover to aid and abet the hard core terrorists.

Ramana sir,

Any idea where Shiv saar is?

Regards

Just helping here:

He is active on Twitter as @bennedose

[ramana]

UB, Your reply to me: one points. Both KSA and China perception is not correct. Geopolitics is shifting by the week. And both could want TSP knocked down quite a bit. TSP is like Milady in Three Musketeers. Doing too much damage on own account.

Rudradev, Good analysis and food for thought.
So you are saying they got approval for hit on Iran and threw in the Pulwama as a mulligan.
To me Iran hitting TSP formally scares the West Asians as they worry about expanding power.
However if Iran hits the TSP in Baluchistan with similar non state actors it takes the fear out and lets India respond as fit.
I would like a short term POK atleast readjustment of LOC and long term slice and dice TSP into five parts.
Sind and Kranchi city state like Singapore for mohajirs.


And RD, the GOI sanctions on Hurrirats is remarkable as Robin Raphael is their birth mother!!!!
The attackers are Jaish-e- Mohammed(JeM) whihc is a TSP irreuglar army. yet GOI promptly withdrew secuirty for the Hurrirats.
It sends the required signals to the HBC. I don't like HCB.
HBC is more accurate Hillary Ben**D Clinton.
Now I get her trip to Mota Bhai big fat wedding was to tie up these loose ends.

[ramana]

ks_sachin, He is on Twitter. And very active. We both tweet each other.

I want you to get out of the blue funk and despondency you are in.
Things will be better in the end. If not its not the end yet.

[Karan M]

After reading Rudradevs analysis, theory ..all I can say is the Pakistanis are idiots.

[Neshant]

I just bought a $1500 lenovo laptop.. Feeling like shit now. Last time I am buying any Chinese product. SAY NO TO the following Chinese companies:

Lenovo
ViVo
Xiaomi
Oppo
OnePlus
HuaWei
Force Chinese disinvestment from PayTm.

I would rather pay more to buy stuff made elsewhere. ChiComs must pay for their sponsorship of Pakistan.

There is a difference between made in China, and China owned stuff. Even the iPhone is nominally 'made in China', but the value add in China for an iPhone is less than $25. Rest of that stuff is made in the US, Taiwan, South Korea etc. Its not so for the companies listed above.. Much more of the value add is in China. Therefore, prefer non Chinese brands over Chinese brands, even when both the choices may have been manufactured in China.

If you or anyone else is looking to buy non-Chinese mobiles, please consider Nokia - they are again being made in Chennai. I own one myself.

+1

Frankly i don't understand why the govt is going ahead with 5G telecom equipment from China.

The stupidest idea ever when it comes to national security.

[disha]

Folks, got this from a friend. I have signed and forwarded much as I could. Don't know if this will make any difference but every little bit is helpful. Please sign the petition to the President of India to abolish Article 370 here:

http://chng.it/ttBZThFLYf

It is good to sign it. When I signed and forwarded it, it was in the 50k's and now it is in 1.25k's. It helps educate people on the cashmere reality and also counter wrong narratives peddled by media.

[Philip]

Pak is China's catspaw, pimp, vassal wbatever.It is in such a state of failure that everytime XI Gins breaks wind it offers salutations. Carrying on a relentless terror campaign is China's forward policy- to keep India looking westward while it is upto mischief in the east.The refusal to label Paki terrorists as such at the UN makes it an accomplice and as such musg be equally punished.

Banning all Chin goods of at least imposing massive duties is the least that we must do.Indians must be banned from investing in China and vicd versa.If Indian citizens are issued stapled visas then all Chinese must receive thr samd treatment. In fact z special trade delegation must visis Taiwan, Japan, SoKo, etc. to search for alternatives to Chin suppliers for critical items that we can ot manufacture at home.

The GOI is being v.shortsighted in its foreign policy towards China.If it does not punish China economically and diplomatically, it is endangering the nation and also harming the Indian economy sectors which employ the most numbers.

PS: The RSS has just written to the PM asking for a ban on Chin apps as it supports Paki terror and is endangering our security through its electronic penetration of our commn. systems.

[disha]

We will see lull for 3-4 days at the very least.

1. ICJ case regarding Kulbhushan. It is important that we win it. It will be a moral and diplomatic victory and can be used to isolate Bakistan diplomatically.

2. MBS visit from Saudi Barbaria. MBS did a pivot to Bakistan and officially pulled Bakistan in its orbit. In effect Barbaria, Bakistan & Cheen (BBC) is the new troika.

At the same time MBS needs India. Saudi Barbaria supplies some 20% of Indian crude oil (back of hand calculations). India is a very lucrative market for S. Barbaria and MBS will not want that market to lose to Iran (or even US).

S. Barbaria supported Bakis in the joint statement today indicating that UN list for terrorists should not be used for political reasons. One can understand why MBS wants to be in good books of "UN" post Kashogi.

Hence I think a delicate diplomatic dance is underway.

US cannot afford India to be lost out of its orbit. It needs India more than India needs US. Decks are being cleared for a major action. Cheen is studiedly silent other than the unofficial statement from its mouthpiece about "where's the proof". It will wait till it sees action and will move to protect its own interests while making appropriate noises.

Is Bakistan's goat being cooked? So is there a plan to break Bakistan underway? I would love to think so.

(https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes ... r/66351430)

Note that I do not in any way disagree with your factual presentation. But it is depressing. I am saying that the reality can be changed by India, and now. Indian reality must be Made In India, not in foggy or soggy bottoms.

Linking this news -> http://www.newsonair.com/Main-News-Deta ... ?id=359908

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Monday said that the Pulwama terror attack shows that the time for talks is over and now the world has to join hands to deal with terrorism and those who are supporting it.

In his press statement after holding delegation-level talks with Argentinian President Mauricio Macri in New Delhi, Mr. Modi said, he and Mr Macri agreed that terrorism is a huge threat to global peace and stability.

Calling Argentina a powerhouse of Agriculture, Mr Modi said, India sees it as a partner for food security. He said, India-Argentina trade has increased to three billion Dollar in the last ten years.

In his press statement, Argentinian President Mauricio Macri firmly condemned the Pulwama terror attack.

The Argentinian President said Argentina sees India as its business partner and both sides have great opportunities in non-conventional energies.

[sudeepj]

The Kashmir problem has both an internal and external dimension. The internal political dimension is essentially in two parts:

a. The problem posed by the challenge of Islamism/political Islam to the civilizational nation state that India is. This is not a problem faced by India alone and many political models are trying to find a solution. China is trying totalitarian methods, Britshits are trying co-option and a surveillance state, France is trying laicite, Russia is trying 7.62x39, the US is trying dhs+assimilation. I am not sure what India is trying, but it is in India, particularly in Kashmir, where the Islamist challenge is most well developed politically and socially.

It is deeply worrying, that there appears to be NO political and social approach that I can identify, in India. On the one hand, Bajrang Dal wants to beat patriotism into Islamists, on the other hand we have the likes of MS ayyar, NS Siddhu, Rahul Gandhi, Mulayam Yadav.. The only person in Indian political history who firmly used state power to keep Islamism in check was Sardar Patel, and the only person who saw political Islam for what it was was Baba Saheb Ambedkar. Perhaps it is time to get back to a politics informed by their points of view.

b. The problem of conflict termination. If conflict is measured by the amount of violence, India appeared to have won the conflict in the period from 2007-13, when violence in Kashmir was at an all time low. How can this conflict be ended? There is no marshal Tojo to hang, there is no high command that can surrender on USS Missouri.

Kashmiris are right that a political solution is needed, and the current situation that keeps them as a perpetual prize to be won is completely untenable. But the only political solution that is tolerable to the Indian people, and to any rational, forward thinking, progressive person is one that is based on equality, justice and respect for minorities, and that can only be a full and complete integration of the Kashmir valley into the union of India. Towards this end, let 370 and 35A go, so the Kashmiris know, that Delhi will treat their lives as it treats the lives of Delhi natives.

Steps:
1. Repeal 370/35A by appropriate presidential notification or through an act of the parliament.
2. The state needs to be trifurcated into Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir valley, with each are being governed as a union territory to begin with.
3. Identify the families involved in terrorism, these families must be deported, killed extra-judicially or sentenced to long prison sentences through sedition laws.
4. The state education system must be reformed, with madrassas closed immediately.
5. Ex-Army men should be offered govt. land and the land/businesses confiscated from families involved in terrorism.
6. These people should be allowed to keep some number of weapons to preserve their lives and livelihoods.

[sudeepj]

An interesting read: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... sm/582745/

For decades, Sunni jihadism has been characterized by transnational terrorism, suicide bombing, and excommunication. These three pillars not only attracted the ire of American and European governments, but turned off many of the jihadists’ target constituents, namely Sunnis living in the Muslim world. Yet there are signs that Sunni extremists are changing their ways, drifting away from the global agenda that reached its apotheosis in al-Qaeda’s attack on the World Trade Center, and toward a hyperlocal one.

The transformation is happening in various countries, including Afghanistan, Yemen, and Mali. Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda’s offshoot in Syria, provides an illustrative example of how the jihadist threat is changing across the region.

In 2016, Jabhat al-Nusra put together a lengthy training manual for its new recruits. In the roughly 200-page book, obtained by me, the group argues the merits of country-focused jihad over global jihad. It advises followers that al-Qaeda’s stated strategy of going after the “far enemy” was not set in stone, and that, in the current moment, a focus on anything other than the local fight would be an “unacceptable distraction.”

Throughout the Syrian War, the group has put that theoretical injunction into practice. Its leader, Abu Mohammad al-Julani, even pledged in an interview with Al Jazeera in May 2015 that Syria would not be used as a launchpad for jihadists to attack the West, based on orders from al-Qaeda’s central leadership. The group established a political office and reached out to countries including Turkey to sell itself as a reliable partner, one that poses no threat to anyone outside Syria.

MORE BY HASSAN HASSAN

Simultaneously, the group has moved away from the other two pillars of suicide bombing and excommunication, part of the grander effort not to alienate locals.

Jabhat al-Nusra, according to an insider source, who did not want to be identified as speaking with a journalist, has issued internal instructions ordering its commanders to refrain from the use of suicide attacks whenever possible, and never in civilian areas. And indeed, few such attacks have happened away from the front lines. Similarly, Ahrar al-Sham, a Salafi-jihadist group close to Jabhat al-Nusra, banned suicide bombing in the early days of the conflict. The cautious use of suicide bombing is also common beyond Syria, including in Yemen and Libya. It seems that suicide attacks reached a high point after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, but they have now fallen off dramatically—with the notable exception of those committed by the Islamic State.

Excommunication, or takfir, is on the decline as well, as jihadist groups have come around to the practicality of aligning themselves with relative moderates instead of enforcing a rift whenever a theological difference of opinion becomes apparent.

In the past several years, Sunni jihadists have begun to speak in favor of cross-ideological coalitions in countries such as Syria and Libya, and to describe them as “corrective” or “reformist” models. They are advocating a move away from a “jihad of the elite” that looks down on the masses, and toward a “jihad of the people” that respects local communities and reflects their priorities.

Second, pro-Iranian Shiite militants evolved in just this way a few decades ago, from global to more local in outlook.

So basically, we are also facing Jihad 3.0 through JeM now.

[yensoy]

If 370 is repealed, then trifurcation will not be necessary. In fact it would no longer be a good idea to trifurcate the state since jihadis will be diluted in the ballot.

[Deans]

Just returned from a trip to Kashmir. The terrorist attack on CRPF, the subsequent loss of more soldiers last night, the KMs double speak, their anti Indian and pro paki views, their sense of entitlement, their preference to Pakistan, the plight of the CRPF and RR men in and around Srinagar, has filled my heart with Rage and heaviness that whatever the bliss I got of fulfilling my life long visit to Sankaracharya temple in Srinagar did not passify
Went to Gulmarg, Srinagar, Pampore, Hazratbal, Ganderbal and couldn't do Pehalgam, Anantnag, Martand Sun temple. Regretted badly that was spending money to these thankless beggars. Only saving grace was helping a CRPF Javan with first aid at a check post who had injured his fingers while checking his vehicles.

Will post more tomorrow as my emotions are still running high.

I visited in the week before Pulwama. I had resisted visiting as a tourist (only did a couple of business trips to Srinagar airport earlier) as I did not want to spend my money on anti-nationals. However, I felt that I wouldn't have any understanding of Kashmir unless I went there. I did visit Pahalgam and Anantnag (called Islamabad even by the locals). I was outside Jamia masjid on a Friday before the Afzal guru anniversary - with the Mirwaiz delivering a speech in the mosque. I drove along the Jammu-Srinagar highway and I thought the security was good (RR soldiers roughly every 200 meters, both at intersections and in the countryside near the highway). I visited the Sankaracharya temple too. It was good to interact with both RR and CRPF men who would always respond with a cheerful `Jai Hind'. With J&K cops its `asalam alaikum'.
General feedback from Kashmiris - both local parties are very corrupt. Governor's rule has not had any improvement in the administration.
There are villages of `professional' stone pelters. There is radicalisation. A lot of madrasas, No booze and cinemas.

[sreerudra]

So called national unity has all but evaporated, fault lines across the ideological spectrum are glaringly visible. You have ass holes like Ajai Shukla (this guy must be investigated) along with that monkey Navjot Sidhu leading the pack. Full gang of Lutyen elites not far behind. Its all Modi Modi baaad. Game progressing just as TSP wanted.

100% agreed! The media moved on VERY quickly! I doubt the junta moved on though! India should take revenge while MBS on its soil - no need to create these joint declarations stating the obvious. I wish Modi executes.

[Prem Kumar]

Perhaps retake of PoK at critical places serve this purpose well. I know this is difficult so we will have to find our Ardennes to bypass the maginot line. We will be vulnerable, take huge casualties, but that would tighten the screws visibly on the menace called pakistan and end the bogey of CPEC. This is a huge leap and I dont think we have an appetite for it. But personally speaking this is what needs to be done to end napakistan in an accelerated fashion. It's a game 2:1 badminton or is it not.

One of the reasons U.S suffered in Af-Pak was because they were invested in keeping Pakistan intact. We have no such qualms. Any intervention in Afghanistan must be, IMHO, preceded by the dismemberment of Pakistan. Yes, you could potentially create an ISIS situation (i.e. a neo-Taliban that would create a caliphate uniting parts of Afghanistan and liberated NWFP). But the more they fight over there, the less manpower they will have to focus on India.

[ramana]

When are the rains? June?

[Prem Kumar]

Shooting at the protesters apart, perhaps more effort into crowd control devices like pepper bomb variants etc.

Logistical nightmare. In addition to their regular ammo, troops now have to carry crowd control equipment. Its impossible to do COIN & Policing and Winning Hearts/Minds at the same time. India is the only country that's even doing this.

We should announce a policy that all stone pelters will be treated as terrorists & the forces will shoot to kill. Any protest marches & media outrage must be crushed with an iron boot.

Kashmir will be won by bullets, like Punjab. Not by roses.

[salaam]

When are the rains? June?

Area we are interested in is normally 1st July

https://goo.gl/images/w5H655

[CRamS]

1. ICJ case regarding Kulbhushan. It is important that we win it. It will be a moral and diplomatic victory and can be used to isolate Bakistan diplomatically.

When is the verdict expected? Will it drag on for weeks and months, or will arguments be completed swiftly and verdict thereafter?

[nandakumar]

When are the rains? June?

Rains at that latitude is usually around the second week of July.

[CRamS]

Hate to bring in politics, but how ModiJi deals with TSP post Pulwama will determine his fortunes in the upcoming elections. Will be interesting to see how thugbandhan attacks him on this.

[Mollick.R]

To control rioting mob Uncle and several western nations are using high decibel directional sound ( Long Range Acoustic Device -LRAD) as non lethal weapon. The technology is more then a decade old & I remember watching about it first time on a Discovery Channel documentary in early 2000s. So i guess the tech must be quite matured and polished. May be our security forces should start thinking about it. The wiki article says Delhi Police purchased 5 units of

Here is the link

Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Rang ... tic_Device

The Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD) is an acoustic hailing device developed by LRAD Corporation to send messages and warning tones over longer distances or at higher volume than normal loudspeakers. LRAD systems are used for long range communications in a variety of applications[1] including as a means of non-lethal, non-kinetic crowd control.
LRAD systems are used by law enforcement, government and defense agencies, as well as maritime and commercial security companies to broadcast audible notifications and warnings over distance. LRAD systems are also used to deter wildlife from airport runways, wind and solar farms, nuclear power facilities, gas and oil platforms, mining and agricultural operations, and industrial plants.

An LRAD was present during protests of the 2004 Republican National Convention in New York City[6] but not used.[citation needed] LRADs were used by the Pittsburgh PD during protests at the G20 Summit in September 2009. This was the first time it was used during a protest in the U.S.[7][8] Israel's Ministry of Defense ordered LRADs in June 2011.[9]
LRAD was reportedly[10] used by the Oakland Police Department during the clearance of the Occupy Oakland encampment on the morning of 25 October 2011. LRAD was present, but not used, when the New York City Police department cleared Occupy Wall Street protestors from Zuccotti Park on the morning of 15 November 2011.[11] The Delhi Police are purchasing five LRADs for crowd control[12] while the Polish Police also acquired LRAD units in December 2010.[13]

[Mollick.R]

After an quick search in Youtube, found the the exact clip from the documentary i was referring....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyYs_B-LPkk

[Iyersan]

Manish shukla a zee news reportr tweeted that something big is gonna happen. Then deletec his tweet. Daughter promise i saw that tweet. He knows something

[Pratyush]

Hate to bring in politics, but how ModiJi deals with TSP post Pulwama will determine his fortunes in the upcoming elections. Will be interesting to see how thugbandhan attacks him on this.

Regardless of what Modi does he will be attacked by the thugbandhan.

So no worries on this particular issue.

Modi is blessed that people have such high expectations of him. There will be a retaliation. No worries on that end.

I have not seen this kind of anger in all my time on the BRF. Since 2000. And the most scary part is that it is nearly all spontaneous.

[salaam]

.

Please delete your message too.

[Mollick.R]

Posting few other links.....

The stated range is 100m -2km , so may be it can be used in Kashmir also.
No visible injury, no red spots on body like pellet guns (for bad PR in leftist media) but saves precious lives of forces.

A History of Using Sound as a Weapon
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... s-a-weapon

This Is the Sound Cannon Used Against Protesters in Ferguson
https://slate.com/technology/2014/08/lr ... tests.html

Sonic weapon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon

Exclusive: Delhi Police to use high-tech sound device to disperse unruly protesters
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/s ... 2013-05-01

[parikh_ind]

Right now IMHO economically we are not prepared for war and its aftermath , militarily as well (no comprehensive BMD , antique weapon systems etc ).
Bombing a few camps or capturing few posts on LOC with casualties will not achieve much , effects if any is temporary , any co-ordinated action with Iran is far fetched.

The Pakjabis have to be publicly humiliated , GOI should declare the airspace over POK and Gilgit as Indian , IAF should shoot any Fizzle Ya tin cans who challenge them , might be few casualties of our own . Pakjabis will stop after loosing couple of squadrons.

Once we own the airspace we can BBQ the jihadis at our leisure. Tejas ,LCH can do their FOC in POK.

For global audience this can be positioned in N different positive ways .

Also we can tell the Pakis we are not escalating beyond POK and we will not target the military infra unless .... If we need to de-escalate for whatever reason gives a way out to GOI

Chinis will abandon CPEC as its a failed investment , at our mercy , we could always cause a few landslides and block the Karakoram highway.

Namo should time this after elections are declared , there will be daily action , or we can always bomb some terrorist dump and broadcast drone footage to the masses , this will keep the josh high , If the opposition (local pakis) objects , which they will , they get trapped as well.

Namo gets another 5 years , in which we grow our economy 2x , modernise the military and use a lot of the innovative options discussed in this thread to slowly squeeze the life out of the Pakjabis and assist them on the path to a controlled implosion and apply the finishing touches in 2024 , just before the next election .

If Namo games it right , there will be some long term good coming out of this tragedy.

[disha]

When is the verdict expected? Will it drag on for weeks and months, or will arguments be completed swiftly and verdict thereafter?

Here is the case timeline https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/168

Public comments are till 21 Feb 2019. So nothing will be done prior to that. Court generally gives verdict in 3-4 business days. That was the timeline that happened in 2017 when ICJ asked Bakistan to *not* execute Kulbhushan.

Neelum valley is not very away from Kupwara. When I look it up on Google Maps, it is just across the LoC in PoK. If we ever decide to take it, pakis will go ape sh*t.

Topography wise, how easy/difficult it is to defend it, forever? We did the same with Siachen and we seem to be fine being there. However, Siachen is barren/desolate and Pakis are 40+ kms away. From the pictures on Google, Neelum valley is forested. How do we defend it?

Question should be how do they defend it?

The more I read about Neelam (or KishenGanga) valley, the more I like Y.IP sir's idea.

Kishenganga (a.ka Neelum valley - apologies for changing terminology, but I think I will call it Kishenganga from now on), and simplifying it - it is a valley between two ridges - eastern ridge ridge I believe is the LOC with the valley (Neelum River) and the road adjoining the river and the western ridge. From google map it appears to be a crescent (like a 45* tilted "C") with the road in between. I think the road comes into Indian territory for some time before going out and joining to Sharda Peeth.

From Teetal (in India) and bang on the LOC, one can capture the road and the next ridge and stretch to Sharda. But ops is something Y.IP has covered well. My take is rather simplistic, control the road at Teetal and cut off access to Bakis till Sharda and threaten the Bakis at Jalkhand and make a no-fly-zone from Muzaffarnagar to Sharda Peeth.

It will create a very hostile buffer for the bakis to cross from August to March. The remaining months will be little hot, but it is not plains where Bakis can make any major armoured movements.

On the political side, getting Kishenganga into cashmere will ensure easy flow of the gujjars and something which the valley politicians also cannot protest.

[chetak]

Shooting at the protesters apart, perhaps more effort into crowd control devices like pepper bomb variants etc.

Logistical nightmare. In addition to their regular ammo, troops now have to carry crowd control equipment. Its impossible to do COIN & Policing and Winning Hearts/Minds at the same time. India is the only country that's even doing this.

We should announce a policy that all stone pelters will be treated as terrorists & the forces will shoot to kill. Any protest marches & media outrage must be crushed with an iron boot.

Kashmir will be won by bullets, like Punjab. Not by roses.

true.

grab them by the b@!!$ and their hearts and minds will surely follow.

[Karan M]

Right now IMHO economically we are not prepared for war and its aftermath , militarily as well (no comprehensive BMD , antique weapon systems etc ).

We will NEVER be prepared, let me tell you that. Some gap or the other will always be there and every year Pakistan will claim it added 10,000 bombs to its nook arsenal and some journalist will shiver.