Pulwama Attack

Amber G.
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Amber G. » 21 Feb 2019 01:08


dineshchaturvedi
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby dineshchaturvedi » 21 Feb 2019 01:23

brvarsh wrote:
venug wrote:In retaliation how about taking out Gwadar port. It will be a message also to China to stop supporting Terrorism. It has invested billions as we already know and it will hit TSP’s current economic jugular vein as it sees it.

No - not at this time. Gwadar is Pakistan's demise on its own. Its not going anywhere but sinking Pakistan with its own weight. If India takes out Gwadar now a weight would be lifted from Pakistan's chest that in its loss it will become a very useful tool for them. We take one thing at a time but it is clear to make it stop we need to go in and take the war on Pakistan's soil.

Gwadar might have put burden on Pakistan but in future it will yeild results. Please explain how do you think this will sink Pakistan.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby dineshchaturvedi » 21 Feb 2019 01:28

pankajs wrote:Is there any nuke sabre rattling from the baki side yet?

If not ask yourself why? Why have the bakis deviated from their tried and tested formula? What is holding them back?

Thats a change, I can see too, my assumptions is surgical strike changed it. Before they knew that not much action will happen but now they cannot be sure. Thats just my guess.

ramana
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2019 01:32

CPEC chain is essentially Gwadar related.

dineshchaturvedi
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby dineshchaturvedi » 21 Feb 2019 01:55

arshyam wrote:
Primus wrote:

Mollick Ji, any options for NRIs living abroad? Bharat Ke Veer does not work from the US, neither do the other portals you've mentioned. There is something I received from a WA group, I am posting it here. Is this for real or some sort of scam?



Pay only Rs1/- (Ruppe one only)
Like never before, The Modi government has started a new scheme exclusively for Indian Army Battle Casualties and Weapon Purchase.
The government has opened bank account where people can donate funds directly to Army Welfare Account which will be used for purchasing weapons to the Indian Army and providing facilities for war casualties.
People had suggested Government to open bank account to collect funds exclusively for battle casualties and purchasing weapons for army, the Modi government has accepted the suggestion and opened an account in Syndicate Bank, New Delhi for the same. The most attractive feature of this scheme is, people can donate the smallest amount of ONE Rupee. Master Stroke by Modi Government
A country’s population of 130 crore of which even 100 crore people (70%) deposit One Rupee Each, the ministry will get 100 crores/day, 3000 crores/month and 36000 crores/year.
36,000 Crore which is greater than Pakistan’s total defence expenditure.
We spend hundreds and thousands of rupees on many unnecessary expenditure, but if we can spend ONE RUPEE on army, it can surely make India a SUPER POWER.
The money will directly reach the defence ministry for army benefit and war casualties. This is the most unique idea to help our army Jawans who have lost life in battle fields.
Come together, show solidarity to our DEFENCE FORCES, PARA MILITARY FORCE and CRPF.
JOIN THE MISSION TO MAKE INDIA A SUPER POWER!
Bank Details:
SYNDICATE BANK
A/C NAME: ARMY WELFARE FUND BATTLE CASUALTIES
A/C NO: 90552010165915
IFSC CODE: SYNB0009055
SOUTH EXTENSION BRANCH,NEW DELHI.

Apparently this is fake. Donate only through a government website, ending either with gov.in or nic.in. Best is to go to any such site from India.gov.in.


I donated using Bharat Ke Veer from US. I have Indian bank accounts and it works fine. I can even get PIN on my US Phone number. Last I heard, Bharat Ke Veer has reached the maximum limit. There are other website in US which are collecting money, huge money is getting collected. I hope it reaches the right place. Here is an example.

https://www.facebook.com/donate/1059957 ... 150479983/

vasu raya
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby vasu raya » 21 Feb 2019 02:00


chetak
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 21 Feb 2019 02:10

ramana wrote:CPEC chain is essentially Gwadar related.


The OBOR chain is premised on a few lynchpins like gwadar and so, the CPEC chain is a vital link for the cheenis.

Eventually, to safeguard gwadar, the hans will tighten their grip over pukiland in such a way so that they can do this using entirely paki resources.

Their move into ownership of a fairly big part of the KSE is a pointer. There are other areas too where they will crowd out the pakis.

Also, going forward, the pakis will press the cheenis to help out substantially and tangibly on cashmere so, unless we take steps now, cashmere will become a much bigger shitshow at some point down the line.

The IWT rights and provisos exercised by India will start to bite them soon. Enough trial balloons have already been floated by India and so, it is no longer an option that the aam paki abdul or even international abduls are unaware of.
Last edited by chetak on 21 Feb 2019 02:22, edited 1 time in total.

dineshchaturvedi
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby dineshchaturvedi » 21 Feb 2019 02:21

Karan M wrote:
Dilbu wrote:From the 12 years I spent on BRF, mostly as lurker and reader than a contributor, the major change I notice nowadays is that instead of incisive analysis based on news in the media and from past analysis done on BRF, we have more discussion and ranting centered around our pet wet dreams like sindhudesh, baluchistan liberation, use of pig fat and brahmos on pindi. I sometimes miss the old days when learned gurulog on BRF will provide you knowledge and hard facts based on reality. There.. I have posted a rant of my own.

Mean-e-while..
Pakistan warns that Afghan talks will be affected if India retaliates over Kashmir


Dilbu to be fair, most learned log leave when their learning and analysis ends up in diddly squat happening, and things go on as ever before. Its not the forums issue inasmuch as it is the fact that nothing changes at the GOI level and GOI to public messaging is either poor (so we dont even know what is going on) or they dont care (UPA era, style). People trust their Govt when Govt has a long history of taking action, in India since that isnt there, we expect like children, to be constantly trickle fed info to reassure us about what's happening. We have more faith in this Govt, but old habits last a long time.

For instance, a decade back, someone would post a detailed analysis of how this Strike Corp would take out that region, face this division of the PA and the Orbat was this, that. Whats the result of that analysis? None. After the terror attack, nothing happens, dossiers get exchanged.

I am just so happy that in Modi sarkaar, the every other day terror attacks have stopped. Human loss apart, the tragedy apart, I used to dread reading the angst and anger in the BRF threads that would follow.

Next, if we keep the thread open long enough and people start bickering amongst themselves as we started seeing in this thread only.

Guy 1 rationalizes why GOI wont do anything
Guy 2 calls him as useless as GOI
Guy 3 says y'all are jokers
Guy 4 gets offended
Admins intervene. Admins get cursed out or Guys 1-3 develop a dislike towards the admin who interceded
Guy 5 posts a joke about how cowardly Indians are..
Guy 6 posts a statement reaffirming GOI needs to do something because IA, IAF, IN are weak
Guy 7 says so what..
Admins intercede
Guy 5, 7 post in feedback thread about good for nothing admin who went and was rude to him
You get the idea. This is ad infinitum.

Ramana just cracked the whip and got this thread back on track. I & some other admins were trying to nudge the discussion along without it becoming fratricidal.

We all can only do so much. If nothing happens within a week or two, we will have to lock this thread lest people use this thread to express their open frustration.

I understand your frustration, however, we cannot control what governments do. I still feel that a military-oriented forum should have a more focused serious debate. I am new and come here for quality post.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby venug » 21 Feb 2019 02:35

dineshchaturvedi wrote:Gwadar might have put burden on Pakistan but in future it will yeild results. Please explain how do you think this will sink Pakistan.


1. China has invested 60+ B$ in CPEC/Gwadar. This is loan money, at least 75-80% is. This money TSP has to pay back.
2. When the threat of Bombing Gwadar is carried out, if we have the nerve and every time there are terrorist killings make it a point to visit Gwadar, we make Gwadar very risky port. Gwadar is China's long term strategic plan. Yes they might deploy counter measures but still it will be risky port to hold on to.
3. Saudia too wants a piece of the pie, *if* it invests, it will be another few tens of billions more. More money you put into a risky port, good for us.
If you touch Gwadar and make it go back 20 years if not more, what do you get? failed CPEC, failed TSP's economy, with loans to pay but nothing to show.

All it takes is few Brahmos. You dont have to touch anything(may be too simplistic thought of mine) but it might work. Even if you want to do that as some gurus said it is will bring upon nukes on us, then use covert means to attack Gwadar and make it dangerous for trade both for TSP and China. This will also aim at China, where we dont have many levers. CPEC actually provided us many levers against China. You threaten we will retaliate at our choosing, at least China will fold and will tow India's line regarding Terrorism emanating from TSP. You can even force China to make TSP abandon Terror(may be not, but still some influence of sorts can be used)
JMT

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Amber G. » 21 Feb 2019 02:43

From: https://www.firstpost.com/india/full-text-of-india-saudi-arabia-joint-statement-modi-and-mbs-ink-five-mous-condemn-pulwama-attack-in-strongest-terms-6122941.html
The two leaders explored ways to further deepen strategic ties against the backdrop of escalating tensions between India and Pakistan following the Pulwama terror attack, as per the statement. Both Modi and Salman condemned in "strongest terms" the Pulwama terror attack in which 42 CRPF jawans were killed by a suicide bomber of Pakistan-based terror group Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM), in the joint statement.


Calling terrorism and extremism a "common concern", the Saudi prince said his country will "cooperate with India and neighbouring states" on the matter.
{/quote]
Full text of the statement by the Ministry of External Affairs is in the link. a few random snippets..


1. At the invitation of Hon’ble Prime Minister of the Republic of India Shri Narendra Modi, and under the guidance of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia paid his first State visit to India from 19-20 February 2019, where he was received at the airport by the Hon’ble Prime Minister. The visit follows the official visit of Prime Minister Modi to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in April, 2016 at the invitation of the custodian of the Two Holy Mosques His Majesty King Salman bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud.



4. India and Saudi Arabia enjoy cordial and friendly relations reflecting the centuries old economic and socio-cultural ties. Close geographical proximity, civilizational links, cultural affinity, natural synergies, vibrant people to people contacts. Common challenges and opportunities have added momentum to this robust engagement.


5. The bilateral discussions were held in the spirit of strong friendship that binds the two countries and their leaders. They expressed satisfaction at the excellent state of bilateral ties of friendship and cooperation, which are marked by trust, mutual understanding, goodwill and respect for each other’s interests. Both sides expressed satisfaction at the progress made in diverse fields including trade, energy, security and cultural spheres since the landmark visit of the Prime Minister to Riyadh in April 2016 – a visit which served to enhance our engagement and take our relations to the next level.


6. Prime Minister Modi welcomed the recent changes initiated by His Royal Highness Crown Prince to bring in moderation and openness in Saudi Arabia while His Royal Highness the Crown Prince conveyed his appreciation for Indian model of ethos of inclusiveness, pluralism and tolerance.

7. The two sides re-affirmed their deep commitment to strengthen the ‘strategic partnership’ envisaged in the ‘Riyadh Declaration’ of February 2010 and reiterated during the visit of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques His Majesty King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, in February 2014 and the visit of Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi to Saudi Arabia in April 2016.



3
5. Affirming that the menace of extremism and terrorism threatens all nations and societies, the two sides rejected any attempt to link this universal phenomenon to any particular race, religion or culture. Both sides called on all states to reject the use of terrorism against other countries; dismantle terrorism infrastructures where they happen to exist and to cut off any kind of support and financing to the terrorists perpetrating terrorism from all territories against other states; and bring perpetrators of acts of terrorism to justice. The two sides also noted the need for concerted action by the international community against terrorism including through early adoption of the UN Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism and underlined the importance of comprehensive sanctioning of terrorists and their organisations by the UN.


36. Both sides called up on all countries to renounce the use of terrorism as an instrument of state policy. They also called upon all states to deny access to weapons including missiles and drones to commit terrorist acts against other countries.


37. The Prime Minister and His Royal Highness condemned in the strongest terms, the recent terrorist attack on Indian security forces on 14 February, 2019 in Pulwama in Jammu & Kashmir.




43. The Indian side thanked the Saudi leadership for hosting a large Indian community and for ensuring their continued welfare and well-being.


44. Prime Minister thanked the Saudi leadership for designating India as the ‘Guest of Honour’ in the 32nd Saudi National Festival of Heritage & Culture – Janadriyah 2018. The two sides emphasized on further enhancing people to people contacts and strengthening the cultural cooperation by organizing Cultural weeks - ‘India Week in Saudi Arabia’ and ‘Saudi Arabia Week in India’ at regular intervals.



48. The Indian Government has agreed to increase the seats of Saudi Arabian Airlines from 80,000 Seats/Months to 112,000 Seats/Month and studies underway to increase that number substantially.


54. His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence expressed his gratitude to the Government and people of India for the warm hospitality extended to him and the accompanying delegation.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Amber G. » 21 Feb 2019 02:45

^^^ Per some reports.. MBS called Modi "elder brother" (instead of "friend" aka IK) - Interesting..

Bart S
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Bart S » 21 Feb 2019 02:46



Please ignore this bullshit by Micheal Kugelman, who is basically a nobody, and typically spouts the ISPR propaganda line. And of course, he is the go-to guy for the Lutyens media folk.
Last edited by Bart S on 21 Feb 2019 02:48, edited 1 time in total.

venug
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby venug » 21 Feb 2019 02:47

brvarsh wrote:
venug wrote:In retaliation how about taking out Gwadar port. It will be a message also to China to stop supporting Terrorism. It has invested billions as we already know and it will hit TSP’s current economic jugular vein as it sees it.

No - not at this time. Gwadar is Pakistan's demise on its own. Its not going anywhere but sinking Pakistan with its own weight. If India takes out Gwadar now a weight would be lifted from Pakistan's chest that in its loss it will become a very useful tool for them. We take one thing at a time but it is clear to make it stop we need to go in and take the war on Pakistan's soil.


Sorry wont agree. Gwadar according to TSP, it's next Dubai. That's how they see it. It's their waterloo, not some relief if you bomb Gwadar. TSP is hoping that Gwadar is going to get them out of the economic rut. Saudia will be investing(of course there is *if*, but let's assume it does), secondly China already invested billions. It is also a strategic port for them. I don't know why you think taking out Gwadar will relieve them.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 21 Feb 2019 03:17

J&K govt withdraws security cover of 18 separatists, 155 political persons including IAS officer Shah Faesal




J&K govt withdraws security cover of 18 separatists, 155 political persons including IAS officer Shah Faesal

Feb 20, 2019

Jammu: The Jammu and Kashmir administration Wednesday withdrew security of 18 separatists and 155 political persons, including PDP leader Wahid Parra and IAS officer Shah Faesal, officials said.

The security review meeting, which was held under the chairmanship of state chief secretary BVR Subrahmanyam, took the decision as it was felt that providing security to these separatist leaders is a "wastage" of scarce State resources which could be better utilised elsewhere.

Among the leaders whose security has been downgraded and withdrawn are SAS Geelani, Aga Syed Mosvi, Maulvi Abbas Ansari, Yaseen Malik, Saleem Geelani, Shahid ul Islam, Zaffar Akbar Bhat, Nayeem Ahmed Khan, Mukhtar Ahmad Waza, Farooq Ahmed Kichloo, Masroor Abbas Ansari, Aga Syed Abul Hussain, Abdul Gani Shah and Mohd Musadiq Bhat. This is in addition to the four separatists whose security was withdrawn on Sunday.

The security of 155 political persons and activists, who did not require the security provided to them based on their threat assessment and their activities, was also withdrawn. This includes Shah Faesal, the 2010 IAS topper from Jammu and Kashmir who recently resigned from bureaucracy, and PDP leader Wahid Parra, the officials said. Through this, over 1,000 police personnel and over 100 vehicles are freed to do regular police work, they said.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2019 03:21


SBajwa
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby SBajwa » 21 Feb 2019 03:22

No one from Bakistan has condemned this attack as they were doing earlier!! This is first!! does it means open war?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 21 Feb 2019 03:23

Read the article in full, if you have the time.

Its just another poll but it seems to be interesting.

From the timing of the release of these poll results, this survey may not have been affected much by the phulwama attack overhang.

If the survey were to be done now, once again, the results may be even better.






#TimesMegaPoll: 83% say Modi-led government is most likely most likely outcome after 2019 general election



#TimesMegaPoll: 83% say Modi-led government is most likely most likely outcome after 2019 general election

Feb 21, 2019

NEW DELHI: With Lok Sabha elections just a few weeks away, PM Modi has received a massive thumbs up in a mega Times Group online poll, with over two-thirds (83%) of the over 2 lakh respondents who took the survey saying a Modi-led NDA government was the most-likely possibility after the polls.

The poll also indicates that the Prime Minister’s personal popularity remains high. With the official announcement of the general election days away, 84% of respondents said that they would prefer Narendra Modi as PM candidate if Lok Sabha polls were held today.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby SBajwa » 21 Feb 2019 03:23


ramana
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2019 03:24

VenuG, Very interesting Pak wants to make Gwadar, Dubai with Chinese help.
The biggest visitors to Dubai are Indians and Chinese by volume.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby SBajwa » 21 Feb 2019 03:27

I also think that Bakistani based terrorists are trying to break India's secular image without realizing that Sanatan Dharma is secular in nature. They are trying to have Hindu-muslim riots so that Modi again comes to power and sooner declares a Hindu Rashtra.

They are trying to prove their two nation theory by triggering riots and telling Indian Muslims that Hindus cannot ever live with Muslims! This is repeat of 1947.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 21 Feb 2019 03:33

Amber G. wrote:^^^ Per some reports.. MBS called Modi "elder brother" (instead of "friend" aka IK) - Interesting..


100 billion??

imran khan niazi must have fainted. He thought that he was the saudi wife, but he has turned out to be just one of the many mistresses

not even 1/5th of this amount did the saudis invest in pukiland





Na biwi na bachha na
Baap bada na maiyan
The whole thing is that ke
Bhaiya sabse bada rupaiya
Na biwi na bachha na
Baap bada na maiyan
The whole thing is that ke
Bhaiya sabse bada rupaiya


Bina rupaiya to mister
Teri mummy ka pyar
Jo paida karta tuje to
Kabhi na kar sakta mere yaar
Doc laut jata fee na milti agar
Tu maa ke paute ke
Ander rah jata har baar
Woh kiya jisne paida
Wo isvar hai na maiyan
The whole thing is that ke
Bhaiya sabse bada rupaiya


Haath khali agar tu
Mar gay mere jaan
Na agni tuje chuegi na
Dharti degi maan
Had yeh hai mere bhai
Yeh khudaun ka ghar
Teri daulat ne banaya to
Khush hoye allah bhagwaan
Tu is duniya ki khatir
Jode ja aana paiya
The whole thing is that ke
Bhaiya sabse bada rupaiya


Ek leader ko dekho he
Is looking for every francs
Udata phirta dinner in
Hotel sun and sand
Uske ladke ki shadi
Dekh ke jaye na pooch
Kahan se aaya yeh haathi
Kahan se yeh english band
Aaj kahan ka nation
Kahe ki dharti maiyan
The whole thing
Is that ke bhaiya
Sabse bada rupaiya.


ANI Verified account @ANI

MEA: Saudi Arabia to invest $100 billion in India - a huge vote of confidence in the Indian economy. PM Modi welcomed the announcement by #SaudiCrownPrince to invest in areas like energy, refining, petrochemicals, infrastructure, agriculture, manufacturing, etc.
Last edited by chetak on 21 Feb 2019 03:44, edited 1 time in total.

SBajwa
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby SBajwa » 21 Feb 2019 03:39

BCCi should force ICC to create a Baluchistan cricket team and put it in world cup.
Last edited by SBajwa on 21 Feb 2019 19:37, edited 1 time in total.

Suresh S
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Suresh S » 21 Feb 2019 03:47

karthik s tx for posting the picture of the poor rich man donating to CRPF. You killed me with tears . Tx

chetak
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 21 Feb 2019 03:48

Amber G. wrote:^^^ Per some reports.. MBS called Modi "elder brother" (instead of "friend" aka IK) - Interesting..



Image


[b]Don't only intepret those as only 100 billion. those 100 billion will generate jobs, create infrastructure, help in tackling poverty and provide huge tax to govt, in turn boosting the economy /b]


on second thoughts, is it a broad hint/sop to India not to attack the pakis??
Last edited by chetak on 21 Feb 2019 04:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Amber G. » 21 Feb 2019 03:53

Amber G. wrote:^^^ Per some reports.. MBS called Modi "elder brother" (instead of "friend" aka IK) - Interesting..

Here is one such report..
[b]Hello bhaijaan: Admire PM Narendra Modi, he is my elder brother, says Mohammed bin Salman[/b]

I admire PM Modi," Mohammad bin Salman said at Rashtrapati Bhavan, describing the prime minister as "the elder brother" and himself as "his younger brother".

In a brief statement, he said Indians had helped build Saudi Arabia for 70 years and were seen in the kingdom as friends. "Today we want to be sure that this relation is maintained and improved for the sake of both countries," he said.



(To be honest, I was a bit miffed seeing Modiji breaking protocol and receiving MBS in person, but in later meetings the body language between those two clearly showed confidence and leadership in Modiji -- I keep getting surprised, how Modiji is a master in this respect)

chetak
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 21 Feb 2019 04:02

Amber G. wrote:
Amber G. wrote:^^^ Per some reports.. MBS called Modi "elder brother" (instead of "friend" aka IK) - Interesting..

Here is one such report..
[b]Hello bhaijaan: Admire PM Narendra Modi, he is my elder brother, says Mohammed bin Salman[/b]

I admire PM Modi," Mohammad bin Salman said at Rashtrapati Bhavan, describing the prime minister as "the elder brother" and himself as "his younger brother".

In a brief statement, he said Indians had helped build Saudi Arabia for 70 years and were seen in the kingdom as friends. "Today we want to be sure that this relation is maintained and improved for the sake of both countries," he said.



(To be honest, I was a bit miffed seeing Modiji breaking protocol and receiving MBS in person, but in later meetings the body language between those two clearly showed confidence and leadership in Modiji -- I keep getting surprised, how Modiji is a master in this respect)


on second thoughts, is it a broad hint/sop to India not to attack the pakis??

Amber G.
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Amber G. » 21 Feb 2019 04:32

From a former Pakistani ambassador:
“We will act on actionable intelligence” is stock phrase used by every Pakistan Prez/PM since Musharraf.


They have done it every time .. it is very dangerous ..Most countries now recognise the Pakistani pattern of behaviour, which explains the almost-universal demand for action against Masood Azhar.)

Imran Khan is sitting on a Jihadi time bomb, demanding evidence over Pulwama a mere excuse

Rather than immediately reassuring India and an increasingly upset international community that Pakistan means business in confronting its terrorist demons, Prime Minister Imran Khan took several days to respond to the Pulwama attack. When he spoke Tuesday, he only repeated the mantra of investigation and the promise of action if India shares “actionable intelligence with Pakistan”.

That the attack was claimed by the Pakistan-based terrorist group Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) should have been enough for Pakistan to act against the outfit. After all, Pakistan condemned the attack and has said over the years that it is part of the international community effort to eliminate terrorism.

The enormous destructive capability of nuclear weapons has often been seen as a deterrent to war. But in the Indian subcontinent, politicians and television personalities routinely invoke the possession of nukes in reckless rhetoric of the type that is now on display in both India and Pakistan following last week’s terrorist suicide bombing in Pulwama.

Also read: India calls Imran Khan’s Pulwama address lame, taunts him on ‘Naya Pakistan’

Promises of investigation and demands for actionable intelligence have become a routine Pakistani response in the aftermath of terrorist attacks, especially against India. They were invoked after the attack on the Indian Parliament in 2001, the Mumbai attacks of November 2008, and all the attacks in between and subsequently.

Considering that groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), which was responsible for the Mumbai attacks, and JeM, which has claimed responsibility for the latest tragedy as well as other operations, operate openly and in full view in Pakistan, the calls for investigation and actionable intelligence are nothing more than excuses.

By now most countries of the world recognise the Pakistani pattern of behaviour, which explains the almost-universal demand for action against JeM and its founder, Maulana Masood Azhar.

The assumption on the Pakistani side, probably correct, is that its possession of nuclear weapons limits the likelihood of a kinetic response by India to attacks by Pakistan-based terrorists.

There is outrage and anger in India but the thinking in Rawalpindi-Islamabad is that a defiant Pakistan has dealt with it before and can get through it again. The frequency of such brinkmanship, however, only produces diminishing returns.

It is true that the demand for use of force on the Indian side is increasing but, in the end, New Delhi will act on calculations, not the pronouncements of evening talk-show warmongers.

It is easier to talk about breaking up or punishing Pakistan than to do it or even to think through consequences of every action and reaction.

Although it is based in Pakistan and operates from a massive headquarters in Bahawalpur, JeM managed to use a radicalised young Kashmiri this time to kill Indian troops.

Once the passions of the moment subside, Indians will have to figure out how and why that happened and what needs to be done to deal with such unfortunate circumstances. But India’s Kashmir problem neither justifies nor mitigates Pakistan’s Jihadi problem.

Also read: India has been squeezing Pakistan economically even before Pulwama

If Imran Khan and his militarist mentors cared to think beyond their hyper-nationalist fervour, they would realise that terrorist attacks by Pakistan-based Jihadi groups and the response of their target countries cannot be calibrated forever.

Around the same time that JeM orchestrated the Pulwama attack against Indian troops, Iran’s government held another Pakistan-based group Jaish al-Adl responsible for attacks in Iran.

One need not be a supporter of Iran’s clerical regime or ignorant of Iran’s own support to extremism and terror elsewhere to point out the danger to Pakistan of a consensus among its neighbours – and the rest of the world – against Pakistan-based Jihadism.

The United States was unequivocal in its condemnation of the Pulwama incident, describing it as a “heinous terrorist attack by a Pakistan-based terrorist group” and calling upon Pakistan “to end immediately the support and safe haven provided to all terrorist groups operating on its soil”.

It is rare for the US and Iran to agree on most things, but they clearly agree that Pakistan serves as a safe haven and base for terrorist groups.

The United Arab Emirates, a close ally of Saudi Arabia and a friend of Pakistan, also designated Jaish-e-Mohammed as a terrorist organisation a couple of years ago, just as the US and India had done earlier.

France is said to be planning to lead the charge for listing of Jaish’s Masood Azhar as a ‘global terrorist’ at the United Nations Security Council and China has not been outspoken in its support for Pakistan after the Pulwama massacre either. Sanctions by the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) over failure to limit terrorist financing continue to loom.

Also read: China’s culpability in Pulwama massacre is unmistakable

But Imran Khan’s government and Pakistan’s military leadership seem unfazed by the coming storm. The hubris in Rawalpindi-Islamabad is based on Pakistan’s nuclear status and the country being ‘the key to the resolution of the Afghan dispute’.

Its railways minister, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed – sponsor of Jihadi groups himself, who is known by the nickname ‘Sheedi Tulli’ (‘Sheeda the Bell’ in Punjabi), and who also served in General Musharraf’s military regime – invoked the nukes when he threatened that “bells will forever stop ringing in Hindu temples” if India acts against Pakistan.

And Pakistan’s ambassador to Afghanistan, Zahid Nasrullah, played the Afghan card when he said that peace talks between the United States and Afghan Taliban militants would be affected if India retaliated to the Pulwama bombing.

Beyond the posturing and bombast, Pakistan’s decision-makers must still consider the long-term outcome of their unending Jihad.

The flaws in India’s handling of Jammu and Kashmir notwithstanding, the intermittent terrorist attacks since 1989 have done nothing to improve the lives of Kashmiri Muslims nor have they advanced the resolution of what Pakistan considers to be the Kashmir dispute.

Groups such as Jaish-e-Mohammed might be playing nice within Pakistan while carrying out attacks in Indian territory right now, but they do have a track record of attacks on Pakistani soil as well.

Jaish members conducted suicide attacks on Pakistani officials in Islamabad, Karachi, Murree, Taxila and Bahawalpur to protest General Musharraf’s alliance with the US after 9/11. The group was also involved in attacks on Christian churches, Shia mosques, and diplomatic missions inside Pakistan soon after the fall of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

Those who have allowed Masood Azhar to recruit, organise, and train terrorists even after formally banning Jaish in 2002 might find his anti-India and anti-Hindu zeal useful. But as Hillary Clinton rightly pointed out, “you can’t keep snakes in your backyard and expect them only to bite your neighbours. Eventually those snakes are going to turn on whoever has them in the backyard.”

If Pakistan is to have a national purpose other than periodically whipping up frenzy against India, a pastime that is unfortunately being imitated in India with increasing frequency, it would act against Jaish and work with India and the international community to prevent future terrorist attacks.

Also read: Peshawar to Pulwama, how Pakistan differentiates snakes in its backyard & front yard

If it does not, its ‘success’ in avoiding serious consequences because of India’s relatively limited choices of retaliatory action will only be a pyrrhic victory. Being viewed as a threat by almost all your neighbours and sitting on the Jihadi time bomb is not a strategy for progress and prosperity.

Husain Haqqani, director for South and Central Asia at the Hudson Institute in Washington D.C., was Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States from 2008-11. His latest book is ‘Reimagining Pakistan’.

shyamd
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby shyamd » 21 Feb 2019 04:58

ramana wrote:Rudradev or ShyamD, I would like both of you to do a comparison on the Iran and Pulwama attacks.
What was similar in both? Target, attackers, type of attack etc.
What was different in both?
What else do you have to say?

Quick response -
IRGC attack and Pulwama are linked. Both atrocities committed by ISI but for different reasons

Regional context is that of pre Iran nuke deal era.. Obama planning on Af-Pak exit and 26/11. Attack India via terror and complain of being victims - take money from PRC and other donors, use to fight India and send terror groups to fight new enemy India enabling smooth exit of US.

GoI security establishment unanimous on above view, particularly mil establishment.

Saudis using TSPA as the insurance policy... KSA are working on getting their own bomb (see latest reports of Saudi ballistic tests, Trump transferring nuke tech etc).

KSA paying off India as well not to attack TSP - as KSA want TSPA free to defend Makkah/Madinah as per Pak constitution (Yemen issue) and deal with nuclear Iran as everyone worries that Iran will go back to developing weapons.
In the end no one trusts the general and the cricketer in the Gulf. They see the cricketer as pro Tehran (in his interview on English Channel - he said KSA wants him to act as go between to reach peace with Tehran)

There’s an opposite argument to Rudradev ji’s View... e.g. does anyone even listen to state dept at the moment?

Anyway, ISI gave up some members of cell who targeted IRGC - as Iran was preparing to mount operations and started moving aircraft etc.

But IAF team checking out Chabahar air base - think SAR, Strike missions, ISR, possible air & sea blockade.

Gagan
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Gagan » 21 Feb 2019 05:16

The pulwama attack is very likely the handiwork of the new ISI chief Asim Munir who took over Oct 10, last year
Image

Iski band bajani padegi MAD ko

ks_sachin
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Feb 2019 05:23

Gagan wrote:...



Gagan how do I post an image?
Last edited by ramana on 21 Feb 2019 05:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited. No need to quote whole post for asking a question ramana

Gagan
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Gagan » 21 Feb 2019 05:27

The image has to be on the internet already
Right click on it, and select "Copy Image Location" or "Copy Shortcut"
On the BRF post space, put this link in between the post image short cut which is:

Code: Select all

 [img] [/img]
Last edited by Gagan on 21 Feb 2019 05:30, edited 1 time in total.

ks_sachin
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Feb 2019 05:28

ha. I have an image that I want to post.. any image hosting sites you recommend?

Gagan
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Gagan » 21 Feb 2019 05:30

Imgur used to be available.
Havent' used it for a while

ramana
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2019 05:35

shyamD, Thanks. Do you recall news reports of a treaty between India and Iran during 2004 time period for basing planes in Iran in case of hostilities with Pakistan?

komal
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby komal » 21 Feb 2019 05:50

ramana wrote:shyamD, Thanks. Do you recall news reports of a treaty between India and Iran during 2004 time period for basing planes in Iran in case of hostilities with Pakistan?


According to some press accounts, New Delhi
will have the right to use Iranian military bases
for combat operations against Pakistan should
another Indo-Pakistani war break out.


from here

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/asia_rpt_120rev_0.pdf

disha
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby disha » 21 Feb 2019 05:58

Lalmohan wrote:someone above makes a good point - pak army staying on high alert for a few more weeks will cause a significant problem in terms of their manpower and logistics management, it will be wearing them down and getting them frustrated enough to do something stupid on their own
with all that focus on the LOC, the other non state acting beards might do something of their own accord in the Punjab or Sindh or the Baluchi Freedom Fighters might take the initiative...

and then might be a better time to strike...


+72

In 1971, IG wanted to go to war earlier and it was to Field Marshall Manekshaw who convinced IG to go in December. Rest is history.

I do not think any action will be seen from India even in month of March. Most likely it will be April. By that time the snow is melting and a buffer of water starts accumulating in Kishenganga dam. IWT can be abrogated so that Bakistan cannot have water.

False flag moves can be made all the way from Kutch to Kargil keeping the baki army in sustained state of alert and send them in tizzy. Their fizzleya can be exhausted. Diplomatic screws can be tightened. Economic screws can be tightened. Their army can be stretched in east, in south, in north and in west and in northwest and in southwest and in south east and in north east.

Desi oppn. calling out GOI/NDA government will be icing on the cake. Of course Bakistanis attacking India will be the cherry on top. #mediapimps (for eg. "The Hindu") will get exposed.

All in all, as in hindi cliche "Sabar ka Phaal mitha hota hain" ("Fruit of Patience sweet it is") comes through again.

ks_sachin
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Feb 2019 06:05

tsktskts disha ---
the army of one man is equal to 10 hindus does not get tired. The have a nuclear reactor in their belly.
they dont need water and can withstand the most intence of screwing.

dineshchaturvedi
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby dineshchaturvedi » 21 Feb 2019 06:11

ramana wrote:VenuG, Very interesting Pak wants to make Gwadar, Dubai with Chinese help.
The biggest visitors to Dubai are Indians and Chinese by volume.

This is a pipe dream, this will never happen. To become Dubai, they have to have a strong administration. The whole Administration in Pakistan is broken.

fanne
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby fanne » 21 Feb 2019 06:13

napaki getting frustrated, or anxious - can they launch pre-emptive strike?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ks_sachin » 21 Feb 2019 06:41

An illustration done by a family member

Image

Hilarous


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