Pulwama Attack

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 21 Feb 2019 12:37

i think a limited air strike is a good start...either ways...if Pakis accept it or dont accept it. if they accept it they are under presure to reply in a overt manner... else we know that there is a new template..if Pakis strike covertly we strike overtly..i think its win win situation. A limited strike puts them into a dilemma..on how to react..which has been haunting us..how to retaliate !

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 12:43

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Feb 2019 12:44

One one of my prior post I had suggested the following

1. A score of 40+ TSPA wardi wale.
2. Plus, One of the newly built bridges to bypass the Attabad lake in POK. The bridge took upwards of 3 years to built and will disable CPEC for the limited time it is out of operations. There are no bypass around this place.

The wardi count will be payback and the Bridge would be the interest. Such an action would be *highly visible and verifiable* Plus suggest our openness to go after CPEC plus show the venerability of CPEC to action from India Plus cost in terms of time & money to rebuild. Plus it is limited to the Kashmir theater.

It covers on all aspects that I would want addressed in a payback.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2019 12:51

TKiran wrote:China wants India to lose CPEC the way India lost Doklam. (Well India didn't loose Doklam but just begged China to take the face saver, rest is history)

TKiran wrote:But they read Modi very well in Wuhan. They know that Modi is just a tactically brilliant but strategically clueless. So they will throw Masood Azhar under the bus, but not exactly under the bus, there's a precedence for this. Hafiz Saeed.

TKiran, I don't know what you are thinking but Dokhlam is being taught in staff colleges all over Asia to understand how India faced of China and had them back down.

As for Wuhan there are only 4 people who know what happened there- NaMo and Xi Jinping and the two interpreters. So where you coming with your verbs?

Also don't post without knowing difference between strategy and tactics.
Not nice to disparage own leaders during a confrontation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2019 12:52

manjgu wrote:i think a limited air strike is a good start...either ways...if Pakis accept it or dont accept it. if they accept it they are under presure to reply in a overt manner... else we know that there is a new template..if Pakis strike covertly we strike overtly..i think its win win situation. A limited strike puts them into a dilemma..on how to react..which has been haunting us..how to retaliate !

Manjgu,
Time for covert is over. The retaliation has to be public as Pulwama was very public.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 13:09

I dont agree, as long as in reality Paki army/miltary take casualties, hints and discussion in Public can be done a month or two later. Taking casualties but Pakis hiding it will be a body blow, imagine just like Kargil the families having to shut up about their relatives being given a quiet burial.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Feb 2019 13:13

If we assume that Pakistan will respond to our initial strike
1) what will be the nature of their response

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 13:18

More terror will be attempted unless they feel the cost by them is too high soo to lie low for a year or two.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Feb 2019 13:59

Really.
So you are saying a visible tactical airstrike by India will still result in the Pakistan establishment reacting covertly through terrorism.
Ok.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 14:15

Unless its on the scale of attacking airbases or sinking ships or wholesale bombing of cities, escalating and not winning the war is not something which PA can afford.

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 21 Feb 2019 14:16

Ramana gaaru, my frustration is with Modi that he is not making China responsible for the Pulwama Attack.

Look at the evidence
1. The explosive used is very high grade military explosive. Assuming that RDX is used, how are we concluding that it came from Pakistan, it could have come from China.
2. How we could not detect very high frequency communication? Because the communication technology is from 5G from Huawei.

3. How we are saying that the communication is from Pakistan, it could be from China.

4. Why Pakistani terrorists were not used. Because Pakistani terrorists are very emotional and their quality is ghatia. In Gurdaspur one nihatta brave Indian youth gave a slap to ak47 wielding paki terrorist and caught him. China was very disappointed. They used Kashmiri Muslim youth and trained him. Still they were not confident. They operated vbied remotely, and our jammers could not jam.

Very clearly it's the job of China. But they are getting away with murder, as we are not making them suspects. In fact, none of the forum members expressed an iota of doubt about China involvement.

What I am still saying is that dismemberment of Pakistan is the right approach. It will make China collapse. But China has the blood stains of Indian security forces. That nobody is seeing.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 21 Feb 2019 14:25

a) the low cost option .. a air strike in POK ... it is overt from our POV ..not covert. The point i was making how napakis choose to portray it. Say we hit a PA camp in POK and blow up the bridge.. is it not in the realm of possibility that Pakis deny it and say bridge went down on its own and PA is investigating it. Either way it suits us is what i meant. To use a v poor metaphor is like boy ( Indian) rapes a girl ( Napakis). Its now Napaki dilemma to announce the incident or hide it. Either way it brings ridicule to Napakis. b) the high cost option ( which i personally favour is a few Brahmos up PA HQ in Pindi) and other sundry HQ 's which will leave Napakis with no chance to deny.

nam · Post by **nam** » 21 Feb 2019 14:27

The Paks must have carried out the attack as part of influencing the coming elections, specially around internal security. Pretty sure the idea may have been given by some of the snakes on our side.

Attack was timed with IMF coffers opening up and Afghan talks, indicating US support ( another proof is USAF exercise), winter time LOC snow bound, MBS visit & AI19 to delay any Indian response. All favorable to Pak.

Expectation is even if there is retaliation it will be another SS on LoC and it is snow bound. MBS visit allows time for gauging Indian reaction and bringing in US, along with national broadcast which the dimmer did couple of days back. Fundamentally to tie down any major Indian reaction.

Now if India responds with another SS, Pak will deny it again and our snakes will be spread the word that Modi is lying, there is no proof.

Nice little trap was set up.

The thing they could not control was the scale of causalities. They might have expected 10-20 like URI, but was much greater.

We need to respond overtly with heavy airstrikes.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Feb 2019 14:54

Worth reading the full article.
Strategies for Pulwama-like attacks trace back to ISI HQ: Christine Fair

Do you think successive Indian governments’ strategic thinking has been to bide time and avoid a large confrontation with Pakistan in the interest of economic growth?

Indian governments do not say so. Unlike the US, India does not have a written National Security Strategy (NSS). Each American President has to issue an NSS and this is the standard by which informed citizens can monitor the budget and other applications of national powers. Few countries have NSS documents. These are helpful documents, as they effect a public debate and provide a road map for the elected government.

So, though one could not be certain, one could infer a general avoidance of confrontation from the Indian government's behaviour. And, it seems to be a constant since the post-Kargil time.

India understands that if it can keep focusing on its economy, it can continue increasing its defence allocation in real terms, with its overall economy continuing to grow. That will allow India to outgrow the Pakistan threat.

For its part, Pakistan understands that it has an army that cannot win the wars that it starts, and nuclear weapons that it cannot use, so it must demonstrate that India's hegemonic goals are not unchallenged. This means Pakistan must attack India through proxy actors under its nuclear umbrella, just to demonstrate that India has not defeated it or forced it into accepting the status quo.

In other words, these terrorist attacks will continue because it is the only way Pakistan can show India it does not stand defeated, no matter how powerful India becomes.

As for India, there is some value in its strategy: More people die of roads accidents in a day than those from terror in a year. But, car accidents cannot be a political issue; terror attacks can be.

But, with India's people and polity growing less and less tolerant of terrorist attacks, how long can such a strategy remain viable?

This, I cannot say. But I agree with your general observation. Indians have been exceedingly tolerant in ways that Americans have not been. It also seems that Indians can tolerate attacks on civilians more than they can on their armed forces. {Very good observation. Indian public rage is at a different level when soldiers are killed} When Pakistani proxies attack the armed forces, there is a sustained outrage and calls for a response are more forceful.

You earlier described Pathankot and Gurdaspur attacks as carefully calibrated probes to test India's red lines. Does Pulwama also fall in that category?

Let me preface my argument by saying that I have no interest in India's domestic politics, or in who does or does not become the prime minister. This particular attack might have had India's elections in mind. Prime Minister Narendra Modi galvanises Pakistanis against India far more effectively than any other political party or leader. Pakistan's deep state makes ready use of this to argue for the salience of the ‘Two Nation Theory’. And it also motivates the recruitment and fundraising for Pakistan's myriad terrorist groups. Thus, Pakistan has an incentive to do things that might influence the coming elections.{Here she says ISI wants Modi back in power so that they can continue their anti India narative back home. This is contradictory to BRF view.}

Christine is well known of BRF but still for those who don't know.

The interviewee is a Provost's distinguished associate professor in the Peace and Security Studies Program at Georgetown University's Edmund A Walsh School of Foreign Service. She earlier served as a political officer to the UN Assistance Mission to Afghanistan in Kabul

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Feb 2019 15:09

manjgu wrote:a) the low cost option .. a air strike in POK ... it is overt from our POV ..not covert. The point i was making how napakis choose to portray it. Say we hit a PA camp in POK and blow up the bridge.. is it not in the realm of possibility that Pakis deny it and say bridge went down on its own and PA is investigating it. Either way it suits us is what i meant. To use a v poor metaphor is like boy ( Indian) rapes a girl ( Napakis). Its now Napaki dilemma to announce the incident or hide it. Either way it brings ridicule to Napakis. b) the high cost option ( which i personally favour is a few Brahmos up PA HQ in Pindi) and other sundry HQ 's which will leave Napakis with no chance to deny.

Sir,
I have been watching PTV for a couple of months now. You will be surprised at the brainwashing the Mullahs and the Pakistan Army have managed and the fact is that the "Muslim Ummah" concept is so ingrained that anything that us Indians say is taken with a pinch of salt.
So a bridge being destroyed can very much attain a mythological narrative which is completely divorced from the reality.
So I fear that the army will deny anything and the Pakistani public will swallow anything - even a few Brahmos.
"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Joseph Goebbels
The new normal will be terrorism followed by tactical strikes followed by denial followed by terror strikes followed by tactical strikes......

We have to strike them and provoke them into something rash.....
Tactical strikes have to be a means to a grander strategic end.....

That strategic end for me is the destruction of Pakistan
The non-viability of Pakistan as a defender of the Muslim Ummah
The nipping in the bud of any aspirations of nuclear weapons by countries who use the Pakistani army mercenaries...

Anyway I am not a very intelligent person so I would differ to the collective wisdom of BR in these matters...

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 21 Feb 2019 15:18

'Water Flowing To Pakistan Will Now Be Used To Nurture Yamuna,' Says Union Minister Nitin Gadkari In Another Step To Corner Pak
https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... corner-pak

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 21 Feb 2019 15:25

TKiran wrote:^^from Big data analysis and artificial intelligence, back propagation algorithm, and fuzzy logic....

you certainly need artificial intelligene. not sure what big data you mentioned in your previous post

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Feb 2019 15:26

ramana wrote:
TKiran wrote:China wants India to lose CPEC the way India lost Doklam. (Well India didn't loose Doklam but just begged China to take the face saver, rest is history)

TKiran wrote:But they read Modi very well in Wuhan. They know that Modi is just a tactically brilliant but strategically clueless. So they will throw Masood Azhar under the bus, but not exactly under the bus, there's a precedence for this. Hafiz Saeed.

TKiran, I don't know what you are thinking but Dokhlam is being taught in staff colleges all over Asia to understand how India faced of China and had them back down.

As for Wuhan there are only 4 people who know what happened there- NaMo and Xi Jinping and the two interpreters. So where you coming with your verbs?

Also don't post without knowing difference between strategy and tactics.
Not nice to disparage own leaders during a confrontation.

I think that he is posting just for shock value.

None of it is borne out by support from any writings, analyses from people really in the know like many avid china watchers and think tank discussions by people with their fingers in many pies.

Everyone, in India as well as in other countries, praised as well as really appreciated Modi's stand.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Feb 2019 15:27

ks_sachin wrote:
manjgu wrote:a) the low cost option .. a air strike in POK ... it is overt from our POV ..not covert. The point i was making how napakis choose to portray it. Say we hit a PA camp in POK and blow up the bridge.. is it not in the realm of possibility that Pakis deny it and say bridge went down on its own and PA is investigating it. Either way it suits us is what i meant. To use a v poor metaphor is like boy ( Indian) rapes a girl ( Napakis). Its now Napaki dilemma to announce the incident or hide it. Either way it brings ridicule to Napakis. b) the high cost option ( which i personally favour is a few Brahmos up PA HQ in Pindi) and other sundry HQ 's which will leave Napakis with no chance to deny.
Sir,
I have been watching PTV for a couple of months now. You will be surprised at the brainwashing the Mullahs and the Pakistan Army have managed and the fact is that the "Muslim Ummah" concept is so ingrained that anything that us Indians say is taken with a pinch of salt.
So a bridge being destroyed can very much attain a mythological narrative which is completely divorced from the reality.
So I fear that the army will deny anything and the Pakistani public will swallow anything - even a few Brahmos.
"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Joseph Goebbels
The new normal will be terrorism followed by tactical strikes followed by denial followed by terror strikes followed by tactical strikes......

We have to strike them and provoke them into something rash.....
Tactical strikes have to be a means to a grander strategic end.....

...

If there is a strike at their borders, they can cover it up, whitewash the site and make it seem as if nothing happened. They can also conduct guided tours by ISPR chief of the border attack site for select foreign and pakistani journalist after site has been suitably cleaned up.

But what if there is an airstrike against a sparsely populated military cantonment deep in a busy urban sprawl or Hq in rawalpindi. That they will not be able to whitewash easily. People will mill around with mobile cameras and get plenty of videos before image control/management of ISPR kicks in.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 15:28

shravan wrote:'Water Flowing To Pakistan Will Now Be Used To Nurture Yamuna,' Says Union Minister Nitin Gadkari In Another Step To Corner Pak
https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... corner-pak

This sort of public comment without any delivery on the ground is stupidity, Gadkari should shut his mouth, we are not getting Pakis kicked out of the world cup, lets quietly divert the water sources , build dams then fain innocence.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Feb 2019 15:35

^^
Exactly!

I too dislike "hawai firing" where we tend to mimic the bakis. Built the damn diversion canal then talk. What is this " we can do this or that"? Do it and it will be visible to the world on its own.

Infact, IF I were anywhere near policy/decision circle, I would build i =t and leak its purpose to the media. And when asked vehemently deny its bakis oriented objective.

The denial is far FAR more powerful than this kind of "hawai firing" psychologically, especially for someone who has inherent distrust. In the domain of psychological manipulation I would give bakis the lead over India.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Feb 2019 15:38

yet we do a lot of that on BRF...

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Feb 2019 15:40

Aditya_V wrote:
shravan wrote:'Water Flowing To Pakistan Will Now Be Used To Nurture Yamuna,' Says Union Minister Nitin Gadkari In Another Step To Corner Pak
https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... corner-pak
This sort of public comment without any delivery on the ground is stupidity, Gadkari should shut his mouth, we are not getting Pakis kicked out of the world cup, lets quietly divert the water sources , build dams then fain innocence.

gadkari has consistently delivered results and is a known Modi acolyte.

his word carries real weight and heft and may well be seen as Modi himself speaking.

no one can "quietly" divert water.

It has to be a huge public enterprise with thousands of men and machines working away day and night for years at a stretch in the harsh glare of public scrutiny.

BTW, isn't this the same sutluj yamuna link canal that was fiercely and idiotically opposed for decades by foolish politicians of two Indian states??

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Feb 2019 15:41

^^
True .. therefore I keep to what I *think* is doable. I do not dream for "aar paar ki ladayi" with bakistan at this stage.

Heck, there are folks who are talking of taking China on over Phulwama.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 21 Feb 2019 15:47

Aditya_V wrote:
shravan wrote:'Water Flowing To Pakistan Will Now Be Used To Nurture Yamuna,' Says Union Minister Nitin Gadkari In Another Step To Corner Pak
https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... corner-pak
This sort of public comment without any delivery on the ground is stupidity, Gadkari should shut his mouth, we are not getting Pakis kicked out of the world cup, lets quietly divert the water sources , build dams then fain innocence.

In case you didn't read it, he is talking about the 3 rivers allocated to India. So nothing to hide or feign ignorance for.

OTOH, it is hardly something that should be linked to the Pulwama attacks, and isn't in any way a punishment (or even revenge). It is something that we are entitled to and that should have been done all along.

RamSuresh · Post by **RamSuresh** » 21 Feb 2019 16:36

The new Rohtang tunnel starts at 3120 mts and ends at 3080 meters (over 8.8 kms). The tunnel has a 7 feet high and 12 feet wide emergency tunnel right under the main carriageway. Chandra river is pretty narrow near the entry. The northern entrance is about 30 mts above the river bed and the river valley is narrow and steep. Can an accidental landslide divert water into the emergency tunnel? And then it would flow into Solang and Beas and then get linked with Sutlej. Harrike can divert it into the IG canal system. The tunneling is already over and in theory it should be possible to divert Chenab (atleast the smaller Chandra part of it).

syam · Post by **syam** » 21 Feb 2019 16:44

I think mods will close this thread if we don't post some real stuff.

PoK has three administrative divisions with 10 districts. Their population is at least 4 mil. The whole area is around 13000 sq. kms. Our military would have reclaimed all of it back in 40s but Nehru went to UN and made it some global issue.

Now our agenda is reclaiming this land. How can we reclaim the land? My proposals,

1. Economic solution - India will invest some 1 billion dollars in Pak and in return we get back the land. I know this is next to impossible. But is it really impossible? Who doesn't like money these days. .

2. Military solution - We reclaim it by force. The challenges we see in this type of solution,
* We have to build infra all over the place to keep it under our law.
* Assimilation of the local people into our culture. Do we really have any plans in this direction? We don't have any solutions for our own internal
problems.

3. Zero solution - We just make it zero land with no life.

Only way we can solve Kashmir issue is by completely solving the issue. We have to chose one of the above solutions. My worry is, our Government never shown any interest in solving the issue. They propose talks which goes nowhere.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Feb 2019 16:49

syam wrote:I think mods will close this thread if we don't post some real stuff.

PoK has three administrative divisions with 10 districts. Their population is at least 4 mil. The whole area is around 13000 sq. kms. Our military would have reclaimed all of it back in 40s but Nehru went to UN and made it some global issue.

Now our agenda is reclaiming this land. How can we reclaim the land? My proposals,

1. Economic solution - India will invest some 1 billion dollars in Pak and in return we get back the land. I know this is next to impossible. But is it really impossible? Who doesn't like money these days. .

2. Military solution - We reclaim it by force. The challenges we see in this type of solution,
* We have to build infra all over the place to keep it under our law.
* Assimilation of the local people into our culture. Do we really have any plans in this direction? We don't have any solutions for our own internal
problems.

3. Zero solution - We just make it zero land with no life.

Only way we can solve Kashmir issue is by completely solving the issue. We have to chose one of the above solutions. My worry is, our Government never shown any interest in solving the issue. They propose talks which goes nowhere.

I don’t mind the land if the people don’t come with it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 16:54

I think 13k squadrons in is excluding Gligit Baltistan which is more important to us

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Feb 2019 16:55

NIA takes over Pulwama attack probe from J&K Police

The National Investigation Agency (NIA) on Wednesday took over the probe into the February 14 terror attack in Pulwama from the Jammu and Kashmir police, officials said.

The agency has re-registered the case and formed a team to investigate the terror strike in which 40 CRPF personnel were killed, an NIA spokesperson said.

The state police had registered a case at the Awantipora police station on February 14 after a suicide bomber blew himself up next to a CRPF bus, which was part of a 78-vehicle convoy carrying over 2,500 personnel on their way from Jammu to Srinagar.

syam · Post by **syam** » 21 Feb 2019 16:57

ks_sachin wrote: I don’t mind the land if the people don’t come with it.

That means, you are not interested in the aftermath. Let's not turn our Kashmir into another Afghan.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Feb 2019 17:00

After Pulwama attack, authorities to crack down on terror sympathisers, expedite moving Srinagar jail outside city

New Delhi: In the wake of the terror attack in South Kashmir's Pulwama district, a series of high-level meetings were called to examine issues ranging from comprehensive security around the camps of forces in the Valley to expediting shifting the Srinagar Central Jail to outside the city. After deliberations on the security situation in Kashmir, authorities concluded that moving the jail from downtown Srinagar to the suburbs needs to be accelerated as the prison has turned into a hub where terrorist activities are planned, sources said.

"Last year, some hardcore terrorists were shifted to prisons outside the state. But the jail still has militants who are suspected of planning terror attacks using mobile phones smuggled inside with the help of terror sympathisers. We cannot go on postponing it ad infinitum," the sources said. "Using jammers poses a practical problem because the jail is located within the city. Specific threats to camps of security forces in the Valley were also analysed," they said, adding that the meeting took note of a recent threat issued by terror outfit Hizbul Mujahideen, which has warned of suicide attacks similar to the one carried out by the Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) in Pulwama. As far as long-term strategy is concerned, officials deliberated on governance deficit and general administrative lethargy resulting from political instability.

"The possibility of utilising the services of militants who have been released and those who have surrendered was also suggested. We will not show any leniency in dealing with financiers and supporters of terror activities. There has been a huge drop in the number of people indulging in stone pelting, and that is a good sign. Now, it is imperative to deliver results on the ground.

"Pakistan-based terror groups Lashkar-e-Taiba and JeM are using various channels to finance separatists and terrorist activities. Sympathisers of terrorists and separatist should know that the security establishment are closely monitoring them," the official said.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Feb 2019 17:03

Another opinion.
Dossier on Pakistan hand in terror activities should only be submitted to Financial Action Task Force: Here's why

How will the dossier to FATF affect Pakistan?

The dossier will contain evidence gathered on how JeM is being funded and aided by Pakistan as well as other details of terror attacks carried out by the outfit in the past. India will also push to blacklist the neighbouring country so that appropriate actions can be taken against it.

Coming under the Paris-headquartered FATF's blacklist will designate it a "non-cooperative" nation in the global fight against money laundering and terror financing. It may further lead to downgrading of the country by multilateral lenders like International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Asian Development Bank, European Union and also a reduction in risk rating by Moodys, S&P and Fitch. Pakistan has already been on the grey list of the anti-terror finance watchdog since July 2018.

The FATF has 35 members and two regional organisations – European Commission and Gulf Cooperation Council. North Korea and Iran are in its blacklist.

In a recent meeting with IMF chief Christine Lagarde in Dubai, Khan was promised monetary support to Pakistan to help resurrect its flailing economy, reported The Wire. However, if the FATF blacklists the country, the IMF promise for economic support to Pakistan would be jeopardised. The World Bank's aid to Pakistan (in terms of International Development Assistance credits) to Pakistan stood at a little over $1 billion. But further help from the World Bank or its affiliates such as the International Finance Corporation could also be "negatively impacted". Islamabad, has however been promised help by nations such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE).

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 21 Feb 2019 17:04

ramana wrote:shyamD, Thanks. Do you recall news reports of a treaty between India and Iran during 2004 time period for basing planes in Iran in case of hostilities with Pakistan?

Yes - but Iran is trying to balance with TSPA... and keep TSP off balance using the local Shia population who they recruit in the revolutionary guard brigades. Don’t forget TSP was selling nuke secrets to Tehran...

Action on Pulwama is a definite - question of when and not if... Some parts finalised

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 21 Feb 2019 17:10

ks_sachin wrote:
syam wrote:
2. Military solution - We reclaim it by force. The challenges we see in this type of solution,
* We have to build infra all over the place to keep it under our law.
* Assimilation of the local people into our culture. Do we really have any plans in this direction? We don't have any solutions for our own internal
problems.
I don’t mind the land if the people don’t come with it.

@sachin: They were our people. They are bhatke hue naujawan. They need a range of options for "ghar wapsi", ranging from economic opportunity to papa2 kind of treatment.
There would be infrastructure, after all pakistani army keeps them in control., I dont think they would be worse off than the current stone pelting lot. In fact we can pit them against the stone pelters for the state largesse. With the newcomeres highlighting the paki atrocities (real and cooked both) and blaming kashmiri ms as hoarding. A strong Indian state is the solution to many of the problems that have been caused by nomads/herders in the north east regions.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Feb 2019 17:11

Recommend reading it in full.
The Kautilyan thing to do in the aftermath of the #PulwamaAttack

Whether anyone likes it or not, there is also an electoral compulsion for the governing party to not let the Pakistanis get away with this latest act of mass murder. But even from the point of view of national security, it is now imperative for the government to not just react, but also be seen to be reacting. In other words, some action is inevitable and this action will probably be more visible than the ‘surgical strikes’ of 2016. This might not appeal to the turn-the-other-cheek liberal, but this crowd doesn’t count. There will be both kinetic and non-kinetic steps that will be available in the menu of options before the government.

Needless to say, the government’s action cycle will not be based on the 24-hour news cycle of TV stations. The retaliation will not be knee-jerk but cold, calculated, calibrated and to the extent possible, clinical. But retaliation in itself won’t be enough because India now needs to move beyond the action-reaction cycle to a more solid and robust policy-oriented approach that uses all elements of national power and adopts an all-of-government approach to fix the terror factory that is Pakistan.

Internally, the crackdown that commenced after the Pulwama bombing needs to be intensified. The suicide attack has given justification, if ever it was needed, to take the gloves off and start dismantling the ecosystem that nurtures and supports terrorism. The withdrawal of security (which also means denial of a protocol) is an excellent first step.

But alongside, the financial system that sustains the terrorists and separatists also needs to be taken down. Many of these separatists are nothing but conflict entrepreneurs who have made fancy fortunes and fabulous assets through illegitimate means. Many of them have built shopping plazas and malls illegally and these need to be brought down. They need to be reduced to penury and made an example of so that it is clear that crime and terrorism won’t pay. This is also a great time to cleanse the administration at all levels of sympathisers and supporters of separatism and rewarding people who believe in the idea of India. But most importantly, the security forces and the government will need to come down hard on the agent provocateurs who mobilise stone-pelting mobs. This also means detoxifying the education system which has been infiltrated by Islamists.

India has been negligent in using its position in international financial institutions for advancing its strategic goals. For instance, India has a 2.7 per cent vote in the IMF. This is certainly not enough to exercise a veto but can be used as a bargaining chip with other countries to either oppose an IMF bailout package to Pakistan or else ensure that very hard conditions are imposed that will emasculate the Pakistan economy. Ditto in the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank and other international financial institutions. India has for far too long played the gentleman’s game, and it is about time that they now take off the gloves, throw antiquated notions of chivalry in the dustbin, and accept the fact that if you have to fight the pig, you will have to be prepared to get dirty.

The moment of truth is now once again upon India. Not responding is not an option. But the response has to transcend revenge and become a strategic response for it to have any real meaning. Giving a bloody nose to Pakistan will, of course, be very satisfying, but what will be even more useful is paralysing the Pakistani body. The former is a short-term, tactical palliative, and the latter is the Kautilyan thing to do.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 21 Feb 2019 17:13

pankajs wrote:^^
True .. therefore I keep to what I *think* is doable. I do not dream for "aar paar ki ladayi" with bakistan at this stage.

Heck, there are folks who are talking of taking China on over Phulwama.

not sure where you are reading that, but china has to be managed in this too. Regardliess of official GOI position, China's stakes in this great game are real. Ignoring that would be ignoring the real witch brewing the magic potion and only focussing on potion

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Feb 2019 17:13

After Pulwama attack, Pak tells Masood Azhar, Hafiz Sayeed to lie low: Sources

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Feb 2019 17:14

there was a shia revolt in gilgit - baltistan in 1988 over a fight the sunnis started over sighting of the Eid moon and other simmering issues

instead of restoring peace , the PA conspired to transport the influx of 1000s of armed sunni pathans from NWFP in lashkars that destroyed the whole place and killed/raped 100s of civilians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Gilgit_massacre

it was in revenge for this that a shia airman gave zia ul haq his mango crate

some say the mushrador was also deep in these atrocities as high up in PA.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Feb 2019 17:21

How traders in Pakistan are hit after India's customs duty hike

Traders in Pakistan have been severely hit after India raised customs duty on the import of all Pakistani goods by over 200 per cent. Reports say, traders, especially those dealing in fresh fruits, cement, and cotton with India, have been affected as the high customs duty has almost put an end to the entire export activity with India.

In fact, Indian cement importers have already cancelled orders placed with Pakistani traders. As per Pakistan-based daily Dawn, Indian importers have asked Pakistani cement exporters to recall containers after the customs duty hike. The daily quoted an exporter saying that around "600-800 containers loaded with cement" were stuck at Karachi Port, high seas or at Colombo and Dubai".

The cement traders in Pakistan are ruing over the rising tension between both the countries. Cement demand was at its peak in India after the Modi government announced Rs 5,000 crore rehabilitation projects for flood-hit Kerala.