Pulwama Attack

ramana
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2019 09:56

Ok. Enough tolerance.
I am going to ban anjan.
Going to warn TKiran fir pushing China line and CRS for constant whining.

DrRatnadip
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby DrRatnadip » 24 Feb 2019 10:20

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/srinag ... 131366.cms

Srinagar descends into confusion, panic

I think GOI should ban media from giving details of every govt action..

chetak
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 24 Feb 2019 10:21

From the net.

This is floating around.



FACTS ABOUT KASHMIR TERRORISM.



State of J&K Under India ( Area wise 101380 sq Km) Excluding POK.

Kashmir : 15%
Jammu : 26%
Ladakh : 59%

85,000 sq Km comprising 85% area are not Muslim Majority.

Population - 1.25 Crores

Kashmir : 69 Lakhs. (Only 55 Lakhs speak Kashmiri. Rest 13 lakhs speak Non kashmiri languages.)

Jammu : 53 Lakhs.
(Dogri, Punjabi, Hindi)

Ladakh : 03 Lakhs. (Ladakhi language)

This does not include 7.5 lakh people settled who do not have citizenship.

There are 22 districts in J&K. Out of which only 5 Districts where separatists have the say ;
Srinagar, Anantnag, Baramullah, Kulgam and Pulwama.

Other 17 districts are Pro India.
So separatist's writ runs in just 15% of the population which are Sunni Muslim dominated.

Interestingly these 5 districts are far away from Pakistan Border/LOC.

There are more than fourteen major Religious/ ethinic groups comprising 85% of the population of J&K who are Pro India.

These include:

Shias ;

Dogras: (Rajputs, Brahmins & Mahajans);

Kashmiri Pandits;

Sikhs;

Buddhists ( Ladakhis );

Gujjars;

Bakarwals;

Paharis;

Baltis;

Christians & many more.

Majority of the people in J&K do not speak Kashmiri as their mother tongue. It's Dogri, Gujjari, Punjabi, Ladhaki , Pahari etc.

Only 33 % people in Kashmir speak Kashmiri & this group controls narrative from Hurriyat to militants and from NC and PDP.

This 33% controls business, bureaucracy & agriculture. This sunni 33% is opposed to India although population of all other muslims in JK is 69 %.

Shias (12%), Gujjars Muslims (14%), Pahadi Muslims ( 8%), Buddhists , Pandits, Sufis, Christians and Jammu Hindus/ Dogras ( aprox 45%) are totally opposed to separatism and Pakistan.

Stone pelting , Hoisting of Pakistani flags & Anti India demonstrations are held in just 5 Districts in Kashmir valley.

Other 17 districts have never participated in such activities.

Poonch and Kargil have above 90% Muslim population. There has never been an Anti India or separatist protest in these districts.

It is only the Anti National Media and other Anti India forces who with their own nefarious designs have created an impression that "WHOLE J&K" is against India.

Whereas the truth is that just 15% of the Population comprising Sunni Muslims inhabiting 5 Districts of Kashmir province are fanning the separatist activities.


And it is this sunni lot that consumes a majority of the GoI resources and has a larger than required number of seats to wield disproportionate political power.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Karthik S » 24 Feb 2019 10:29

Guys what's your take on Modi's speech about trust army, Modi govt and Bhavani. Of all the gods and godesses why he chose Maa Bhavani? Would have made sense if they was speaking in MH, but he was speaking in RJ.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby salaam » 24 Feb 2019 10:43

Bharat Mata ki Jai
Bolo Bharat Mata ki Jai

Guard ka hun bol pyare
Sarvada Shaktishali
Jo bole So Nihal, sat sri akal
Bol Jawala Ma ki Jai
Veera Madrasi, adi kollu, adi kollu
Jai Ma Kali, ayo Gorkhali
Bol Shri Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj ki Jai
Temlai Mata ki Jai
Raja Ramachandra ki Jai
Bol Bajrang Bali ki Jai
Jat Balwan, Jai Bhagwan
Badri Vishal Lal ki Jai
Kalika Mata ki Jai
Bajrang Bali ki Jai
Dada Kishan ki Jai
Jai Bajrang Bali
Durga Mata ki Jai
Ki ki so so Lhargyalo

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Prashanth_R » 24 Feb 2019 10:44

Karthik S wrote:Guys what's your take on Modi's speech about trust army, Modi govt and Bhavani. Of all the gods and godesses why he chose Maa Bhavani? Would have made sense if they was speaking in MH, but he was speaking in RJ.


May be war cry for any regiment.I heard similar war cry in LoC Kargil movie

salaam
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby salaam » 24 Feb 2019 10:49

Prashanth_R wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Guys what's your take on Modi's speech about trust army, Modi govt and Bhavani. Of all the gods and godesses why he chose Maa Bhavani? Would have made sense if they was speaking in MH, but he was speaking in RJ.


May be war cry for any regiment.I heard similar war cry in LoC Kargil movie


Gurjars residing in Gujrat, Raj and Punjab are followers of Maa Bhavani.

ramana
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2019 10:51

Karthik S wrote:Guys what's your take on Modi's speech about trust army, Modi govt and Bhavani. Of all the gods and godesses why he chose Maa Bhavani? Would have made sense if they was speaking in MH, but he was speaking in RJ.



Have you read Ramayana and Mahabharata?

Before fighting Ravana, Rama prays to Durga.

Before the start of Mahabharata, Yudhishtir prays to Durga right in Kurukshetra.

And Rajasthan the presiding diety is Bhavani or Durga.

ramana
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2019 10:52

Pak will be NaPak.

Mort Walker
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Feb 2019 11:08

DrRatnadip wrote:https://m.timesofindia.com/india/srinagar-descends-into-confusion-panic/articleshow/68131366.cms

Srinagar descends into confusion, panic

I think GOI should ban media from giving details of every govt action..


This is to prepare for the hearing on Article 35A at the Supreme Court on Tuesday. That said we may not know the verdict of the court for another six months.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby salaam » 24 Feb 2019 11:13

Mort Walker wrote:
DrRatnadip wrote:https://m.timesofindia.com/india/srinagar-descends-into-confusion-panic/articleshow/68131366.cms

Srinagar descends into confusion, panic

I think GOI should ban media from giving details of every govt action..


This is to prepare for the hearing on Article 35A at the Supreme Court on Tuesday. That said we may not know the verdict of the court for another six months.


RR will be moved to border. This is to retain control of valley when sleeper cells will be activated.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Feb 2019 11:16

Neshant wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Challenge to Article 35A: ‘Hearing appears unlikely till Tuesday'

Making Article 35A and 370 an election issue at this stage is risky considering that the Supreme Court of India is hearing about 35A soon.


One way or another, both have to go.

Its not a judicial decision, its a decision in the supreme national interest of the country.

Just about any legal gobblygoop can be buried on that basis with the exception of individual rights.


I'm not saying it is not in the supreme national interest, but an ordinance that effectively abrogates 35A and 370 may not stand constitutionally and will quickly be revoked. There are enough people that will vehemently legally challenge any ordinance regarding the matter.

J&K of today is not that of 1947 either geographically or ethnically. National security takes a higher precedence - as such the crossings in J&K at the LoC or IB need to be closed for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby amdavadi » 24 Feb 2019 11:17

Ma Bhavani dispensing justice by killing (asuras). Ma bhavani killed mahisarura hense her name is mahisasura mardhini.

Pakis are f###ed

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Feb 2019 11:22

salaam wrote:RR will be moved to border. This is to retain control of valley when sleeper cells will be activated.


I'm in favor of quickly rounding up Paki trouble makers, giving them a 5-star treatment, load them up on IAF C-17s, fly over the Indian ocean at 45,000 ft. and open the cargo door.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Vivasvat » 24 Feb 2019 11:23

In sharp U-turn, Pak says didn't take over Jaish HQ - https://m.rediff.com/news/report/in-sharp-u-turn-pak-says-didnt-take-over-jaish-hq/20190224.htm?src=whatsapp&pos=news

Taking a complete U-turn, the Pakistan government on Saturday dismissed its own claim of taking over the control of the Jaish-e-Mohammad headquarters in Bahawalpur and said the complex has no link with the terror outfit

"This is the madrassah (seminary) and India is doing propaganda that it is the JeM headquarters."

The Islamic seminaries in the campus has a faculty of 70 teachers and currently 600 students were studying in it, the statement said, adding that Punjab police is providing security and protection to the campus.

Meanwhile, The Pakistani government on Saturday took a group of local journalists to the campus in Bahawalpur and claimed that it is a 'routine seminary having no link with JeM'.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby pankajs » 24 Feb 2019 11:27

Yup.

Dimran would seem to be bending to India. Never good for a baki politico in the eyes of the jihadis

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2019 11:27

Mort. Legalism.will get us only so far with crooked judges who have notrack record of justice but repeatedly support anti national activity.

I think govt should go ahead with ordinance. The original Art 35A was by President bypassing Parliament.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2019 11:29

U-Turn is because earlier action confirms Jaish is running amok there and is admission of nurturing Jihadist groups.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Vivasvat » 24 Feb 2019 11:41

I wonder which foreign journalists were invited for the bahawalpur tour.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Feb 2019 11:42

ramana wrote:Mort. Legalism.will get us only so far with crooked judges who have notrack record of justice but repeatedly support anti national activity.

I think govt should go ahead with ordinance. The original Art 35A was by President bypassing Parliament.


Article 35A amended the constitution at the behest of JLN to President Rajendra Prasad in 1954 for fear of Englishmen settling in the valley like they had done in other parts of the world such as Africa and Australia. Article 35A did not go through parliamentary approval, there is a precedence here where the current president could amend the constitution. Of course it would be challenged. Those who challenge it should clearly be labelled as anti-nationals and used against them in elections.

The counter argument is the Supreme Court of India is the highest court of the land. We may not like their rulings, but must abide by it or it will be chaos for civil laws concerning business and commerce. Strong law and order backed by an effective judiciary is what will make India a superpower like the US.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby manjgu » 24 Feb 2019 11:45

why cant Bdesh ask for its share of Chenab, Jhelum, Indus?? has this been explored. What if Bdesh goes to World Bank and ask for its share?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2019 11:50

Sure they can go. But geography will not permit that share.
Don't argue for argument sake.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 24 Feb 2019 11:52

manjgu wrote:why cant Bdesh ask for its share of Chenab, Jhelum, Indus?? has this been explored. What if Bdesh goes to World Bank and ask for its share?


sirji,

whom will they ask?? India or pukilund??

how will they collect it?? in buckets??

they certainly have enough of beedis freely running around in India to do so.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 24 Feb 2019 11:57

ramana wrote:Sure they can go. But geography will not permit that share.
Don't argue for argument sake.


maybe they will ask for financial compensation??

seems like the jehadi thing to do, in keeping with their age old tradition of receiving tributes, no??

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Raveen » 24 Feb 2019 12:02

chetak wrote:
ramana wrote:Sure they can go. But geography will not permit that share.
Don't argue for argument sake.


maybe they will ask for financial compensation??

seems like the jehadi thing to do, in keeping with their age old tradition of receiving tributes, no??



How about they ask for it to be collected via means of Ganga - divert their share to Ganga and they'll collect from there

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby manjgu » 24 Feb 2019 12:03

what i am hinting is that Bdesh can make that offer to World Bank, India and we divert water from western rivers into yamuna and ( we may / may not) give them that water?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 24 Feb 2019 12:16

twitter

India has never had a better opportunity to fix Kashmir. Rather than continue to pander to a specious, invalid grouse, it now must:


Image

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby viveks » 24 Feb 2019 12:39

would be great to have a dedicated south indian resturant in srinagar serving dosa, mendu vada, idli, besi bele bhat. The likes that the valley has not even seen before. Only trouble, independence related cryouts...bigotry and what not.

Tolerance begins in the schools and families. When families tend to be centered on which government they are following...the governments themselves go through hardships and get plagued by corruption, etc

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby arshyam » 24 Feb 2019 12:48

deleted.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Katare » 24 Feb 2019 12:57

Arun Jaitley has said clearly and repeatedly that he is allocating same percentage of federal budget to defense as previous governments. Even with that mediocre defense, he is being economical with truth because finance commission has increased the share of states in central tax pool, making federal portion smaller so in reality the govt has allocated lower amounts for defense than even the pathetic UPA and lowest amount as percentage of gdp since Nehru’s time. These are uncontested hard facts.

Giving VC all the powers in the world to spend comes to nothing if he doesn’t have increased budget to use those powers. If large amount of ammunition was purchased without increasing the budget than some other projects/purchases/training would have to be starved of funds. It only amounts to robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Where this govt has excelled is in utilizing budget in more efficient and focused way and that has yielded hefty dividends as counted by Karan in his post.

Is it going to be enough? I hope and pray it is and we will find out soon.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby pankajs » 24 Feb 2019 13:23

^^
Misses many points already cleared by Karan so I am not going to repeat them. IF one has to compare one must compare the spending year on year / term on term NOT the budgeted.

I can budget 100 rupee and spend 50 while someone else can budget 75 and spend 70. Which one is better? Fake budgeting or real spending?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Katare » 24 Feb 2019 13:24

What makes you think I didn’t?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby pankajs » 24 Feb 2019 13:25

Simple you are focused on budgeting! Defense Budgeting was the biggest sham during the UPA era.

Katare wrote:Arun Jaitley has said clearly and repeatedly that he is allocating same percentage of federal budget to defense as previous governments. Even with that mediocre defense, he is being economical with truth because finance commission has increased the share of states in central tax pool, making federal portion smaller so in reality the govt has allocated lower amounts for defense than even the pathetic UPA and lowest amount as percentage of gdp since Nehru’s time. These are uncontested hard facts.

Giving VC all the powers in the world to spend comes to nothing if he doesn’t have increased budget to use those powers. If large amount of ammunition was purchased without increasing the budget than some other projects/purchases/training would have to be starved of funds. It only amounts to robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Where this govt has excelled is in utilizing budget in more efficient and focused way and that has yielded hefty dividends as counted by Karan in his post.

Is it going to be enough? I hope and pray it is and we will find out soon.

Allocation/Budgeting means nothing if a large chuck is unspent and returned. Compare the spending. That is the ONLY real metrics.
Last edited by pankajs on 24 Feb 2019 13:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby chetak » 24 Feb 2019 13:28

with friends like these, who needs enemies.


Image

Kashi
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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Kashi » 24 Feb 2019 13:53

Do you think they were friends in the first place?

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Pratyush » 24 Feb 2019 14:07

Don't waste bandwidth on these loosers.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Karan M » 24 Feb 2019 14:33

Katare wrote:Arun Jaitley has said clearly and repeatedly that he is allocating same percentage of federal budget to defense as previous governments. Even with that mediocre defense, he is being economical with truth because finance commission has increased the share of states in central tax pool, making federal portion smaller so in reality the govt has allocated lower amounts for defense than even the pathetic UPA and lowest amount as percentage of gdp since Nehru’s time. These are uncontested hard facts.


Katare, you are missing the point. The emergency purchases made by NDA are already mentioned before!

They clearly show that "allocations for defense" being at the lowest etc are irrelevant, because these allocations are all notional! First, as a % of GDP sort of metric needs to be thrown in the dustbin IMHO. GDP is not money in the hand. Its a metric, a notional one at that and what actually counts is money available, after taking into account each dept's stated needs & trying to keep fiscal deficit, borrowings in control etc.

To recap.

1.Rs 25,000 crores of orders for ammo + spares have been made already, and a recurring stream of additional orders of ~6000 Crore thereafter are also in place. This addresses WWR.
2. Under the current Govt, the Revenue & Capital Budgets are being effectively utilized. By effective utilization, I mean we don't keep placing orders for gold plated gear while existing equipment is woefully un-serviceable.
3. While placing large orders for capex intensive gear without fixing existing problems, the optics come across as GOI appears to be taking nat sec seriously, in reality, all we do is accumulate white elephants.
4. Significant focus on Make in India and orders for local defence gear, for more bang for the buck (e.g. Akash MK1S, SRSAM, MPATGM etc - these are all programs originally headed for imports).

Giving VC all the powers in the world to spend comes to nothing if he doesn’t have increased budget to use those powers. If large amount of ammunition was purchased without increasing the budget than some other projects/purchases/training would have to be starved of funds. It only amounts to robbing Peter to pay Paul.


You have misunderstood the advantages of the VC driven process.

First, a large amount of money was spent on an emergency basis. This can include the VC's and also other MOD driven purchases. This allows the VC level folks to drive emergency procurement.

Second, the clearances to the VC also allow him to spend his huge existing budget without running to the MOD for clearance. Please reread the article above. Please dont mix up the defence budget allocation as being == to the budget being spent easily, in a timely fashion.

By giving the VC the power, the MGO can directly work with the VC to clear the requisite approvals and

A) Consume the entire existing budget allotted in a timely fashion (which is also why folks like Gen Nimbharkar are pleased) and
B ) Once that budget gets exhausted, the IA/IAF/IN and then the MOD have the chance to appeal to the MOF for a "supplementary grant" .
c) I won't be surprised as we speak, the process is ongoing for emergency purchases and we will see a increase in the figures presented to Parliament
d) There is a flip side to the VC driven/any sort of emergency procurement, that all this ad hoc procurement may mess up a lot of our purchases if not carefully monitored & we will have multiple lines of "emergency equipment" in our forces, hence the primary focus on giving clearance to the VC for ammo/spares and many other items (https://mod.gov.in/dod/sites/default/fi ... 051118.pdf). He can raise repeated orders so to speak.
e) By doing this GOI moved responsibility for its own upkeep back to the services, instead of them being dependent on a signature from some 10x bureaucrats in MOD (Batteries for submarines being a perfect example of the prior disastrous process)

Where this govt has excelled is in utilizing budget in more efficient and focused way and that has yielded hefty dividends as counted by Karan in his post.


The Govt also focused on improving the OFB/DPSU "yield" to get us more bang for the buck, rather than relying on expensive immediate imports. Another thing they have done is finally opened up ammunition manufacture to the private sector. This will (hopefully) break us out of the OFB delay/expensive import logjam but this will take time (2-3 years at the very minimum).

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Lilo » 24 Feb 2019 14:33

Mort Walker wrote:I'm not saying it is not in the supreme national interest, but an ordinance that effectively abrogates 35A and 370 may not stand constitutionally and will quickly be revoked. There are enough {BIF} people that will vehemently legally challenge any ordinance{by putting a PIL which will be readily accepted by the Court with glee} regarding the matter.

J&K of today is not that of 1947 either geographically or ethnically. National security takes a higher precedence - as such the crossings in J&K at the LoC or IB need to be closed for the foreseeable future.
Mort Walker wrote:Article 35A amended the constitution at the behest of JLN to President Rajendra Prasad in 1954 for fear of Englishmen settling in the valley like they had done in other parts of the world such as Africa and Australia. Article 35A did not go through parliamentary approval, there is a precedence here where the current president could amend the constitution. Of course it would be challenged. Those who challenge it should clearly be labelled as anti-nationals and used against them in elections.

The counter argument is the Supreme Court of India is the highest court of the land. We may not like their rulings, but must abide by it or it will be chaos for civil laws concerning business and commerce. Strong law and order backed by an effective judiciary is what will make India a superpower like the US.
Mort ji,
Have you ever fought a case in India's courts?
Dont sing paeans to India's rotten Judiciary - while enjoying the benefits of Jury system or a President who gets to appoint Judges to the Supreme Court in accordance to popular will.
Infact iam shocked how much your statement matches the view of self appointing hizzoners of India who otherwise dont give a dog's fart for India's Constitution. See the below public declaration of CJI designate right after the SC struck down the NJAC bill which wanted to end their rotten unconstitutional selfappointment process and their perpetuation of an unaccountable corrupt coterie since the early nineties.
Tolerance a must for India to be superpower: TS Thakur

"One thing that will have to be always kept in mind is that the system must always remain stable. I must say that as a student of Constitution, I have found that there is not only wisdom or prudence in all that we do but there is also great amount of tolerance," said Thakur.

In an apparent reference to Supreme Court's quashing of the Act envisaged to set up National Judicial Appointments Commission giving the government a say in appointment of judges to higher judiciary, Justice Thakur said "even when you strike down a parliamentary legislation, including a constitutional amendment, even when they may have had the full support of the political class we have showed maturity to accept it with lot of grace and dignity and I think that's a great credit :rotfl: not only to those who are administering the country but also the general public and that is the greatest security that we can claim."

The apex court's October 16 judgment had evoked sharp reactions from government with Attorney General Mukul Rohatgi and Union Minister Arun Jaitley slamming it. While Rohatgi termed it a flawed judgment which ignored the will of the people, Jaitley kicked off a controversy saying, "Indian democracy cannot be a tyranny of the unelected".


Please see the thinking of one such Justice of the Court - they may as well be a pakistani spokesmen(this video was already posted relinking again, further note comments from the Pakis below the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01ywRZnIgLU
And this guy circulates himself as a Kashmiri Pandit!
Last edited by Lilo on 24 Feb 2019 19:52, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby yensoy » 24 Feb 2019 14:45

chetak wrote:
manjgu wrote:why cant Bdesh ask for its share of Chenab, Jhelum, Indus?? has this been explored. What if Bdesh goes to World Bank and ask for its share?


sirji,
whom will they ask?? India or pukilund??
how will they collect it?? in buckets??


This is a brilliant idea. Since IWT was negotiated with erstwhile Pakistan and not Bakistan, Bangladesh has right to half of the negotiated share. And Bangladesh can transfer that share to India upon payment of some kind of compensation or water rights from Ganga/Brahmaputra rivers - maybe as a solution to the Teesta stalemate. That way we can gain some access to the Western 3 rivers waters.

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Re: Pulwama Attack

Postby Katare » 24 Feb 2019 14:47

Army (Revenue+capital)
Year. Budget. Expenditure
2010-11. 74019.9 78,239.69
2011-12. 82,820.4. 84,081.29
2012-13. 96,564.83. 91,450.51
2013-14. 99,003.03. 99,464.21
2014-15. 118,377.62 114,559.95
2015-16. 1,30,658.33. 1,23,550.88
2016-17. 1,40,675.80. 1,45,364.04
2017-18. 1,45,167.22. 1,33,501.55


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