Pulwama Attack

[disha]

Looks like India has called for emergency session of UN Security Council.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... ick-a-side

Communist China has two mongrels, N. Korea and Bakistan. N. Korea has been neutralized and the US-China trade war is hurting Xi. In the meantime Trump has a significant domestic setback (wall) and a setback in Afghanistan (begging bowl from US to Taliban).

Internally, the CONgoons* and Mao-Mamata are purposefully weakening India.

Communist China might have activated JEM to carry out this attack. It bolsters up Xi's image in Cheen. Keeps JEM happy and uighur muslims are just another set of toilet paper to be discarded at the altar of Communist China. By himself Im-the-Dim does not have the brain or the courage of a hamster to think this through. ISI and BakJabis would love to be the mercenaries of red uncle fingering India while keeping the Cashmere cause alive. And the local hurrirats, their Cashmere cause remains in focus.

This reminds me of the "window of opportunity" that Bakistan used in '65. This time by China.

I think India should be prepared for a two-front war.

*At this point any supporter of CONgoons are anti-Nationals.

[disha]

^Cain and Manjgu saar, are you prepared for a two-front war that might go nuclear?

[Karthik S]

Ah come on!! atleast in BRF let's not fall for this paki nuclear bluff and get dramatic. What two front war? You think China will wage a war with India now? What it will gain? Land? Resources? UP's and Bihar's population? We had a long topic on possibility of chinese aggression.

It's indeed necessary to not to indulge in impotent rage. But let's not get into impotent fear and dhoti shivering. two front war, nuclear war and all.
Govt. has to take retaliatory steps, there is no other go and it has to be seen and felt by both internal and external enemies. Period.

[manjgu]

with things snowed out..its indias perfect moment..keep the air strikes shallow into LOC...cause PA casualties...claim we hit terrorist camps..let the onus be on Pakis to escalate... we have paid price of inaction..time to pay price of action !!

[a_bharat]

Today's quote on my calendar (Swami Vivekananda):

My child, what I want is muscles of iron and nerves of steel, inside which dwells a mind of the same material as that of which the thunderbolt is made. Strength, manhood, Kshatra-virya + Brahma-teja ... this I want.

Hope, Indian leadership has some of those qualities.

[Austin]

Indian Leadership will be careful not to fall into a trap of full fledge war with Pakistan , This is what they want.

[Karthik S]

Indian Leadership will be careful not to fall into a trap of full fledge war with Pakistan , This is what they want.

Just out of curiosity, why you are so afraid of a full fledged war?

[Cain Marko]

^Cain and Manjgu saar, are you prepared for a two-front war that might go nuclear?

Why two front Saar. The moment Chinese realize India means business, they will back off. They have too much to lose. Make sure to show more pics of aridhaman class and remove nfu policy. Tsps been the quintessential phoney threatening with a gun to it's own head. Time to call the bluff.

But then again there is always the remote possibility that a pakjabi monopolized, disgruntled, destitute population has all of a sudden grown a genuine spine in a not so genuine cause whereby to challenge India. And you have a serious shooting war on your hands.

No sir, I don't think this is likely. The peepuls in tsp want ease and not war. At least from what I've seen from interacting with aam aadmi there. Very few real Hawks there. The guys with cajones are not the decision makers... Mainly serve as cannon fodder for Pakjabi jarnail class.

[a_bharat]

Indian Leadership will be careful not to fall into a trap of full fledge war with Pakistan , This is what they want.

in other words, let it pass?

[Cain Marko]

Indian Leadership will be careful not to fall into a trap of full fledge war with Pakistan , This is what they want.

Actually Austin Saab, it is exactly what they don't want. Tsp leadership is made up Punjabi zamindars who also wear uniform. If it's real aamne saamne type war, they know they will lose and very badly. Amongst all parties they will lose most. The aam aadmi of Pak has already lost. He has little left to lose anymore. The jihadi type never had anything to begin with. It's the potbellied jarnails in model Town and defense colony mansions who will have most at stake. And they know this.

Continuing to flame an enemity with India is their reason to exist and so such attacks will continue until India makes it clear that this is the end of the line.

[Aditya_V]

We have had these words before, the trap is for us to mobilise publically and withdraw, its better for us to be prepared and do a provocation unlike Parakram where the 5th column within India was in full display.

This at the very heart is a Murder/ special operation conducted by GHQ Rawalpindi. No Murderer/Rapist reforms himself. If we do nothing, we are inviting them to do the next attack, our soft policy is what keeps encouraging them plus with elements within India.

Thats where no need for Bombast comments or claiming responsibility. Say the Isloo Parade on April first, a missile lands and kills some of the contingents, no need to claim responsibility, ask Pakistan to give Dossiers that it was an Indian missile or artillery which did it while public ally condemning the attack and calling for restraint on all sides and state the issues of Internal freedom within Pakistan must be settled to wishes of the people.

[abhijitm]

Indian navy is the game changer. That is least expected by pakis. Bring the navy and start blockade.

[Karthik S]

Indian navy is the game changer. That is least expected by pakis. Bring the navy and start blockade.

what will you achieve by a naval blockade?

[Aditya_V]

Blockades etc are nothing, if you sink an Agosta 90B and claim some defensive reason you will achieve something, Operation Parakram was an eye opener, apart from Military casualties , loss of weaponry, land etc Pakis are like Nazis and Hitler, they dont care a damn. Hell they will not care 5 million Paksi starve to death tomorrow also.

[Austin]

Indian Leadership will be careful not to fall into a trap of full fledge war with Pakistan , This is what they want.

Just out of curiosity, why you are so afraid of a full fledged war?

I am not but having observed the country leadership and business community since mid 90's and across all the Kargils and 26/11 the lowest denominator seems to be avoid a full fledge war at all cost ......During Kargil war the Ambani had made a deal with Musharaf should a war errupt they wont attack his Jamnagar facility.

I dont see how it will be different this time around , There will be the same enormous pressure from top business community to avoid war at all cost.

[chetak]

Indian Leadership will be careful not to fall into a trap of full fledge war with Pakistan , This is what they want.

Just out of curiosity, why you are so afraid of a full fledged war?

yes, pray do tell, especially when other people have to fight it and we get to watch from the sidelines onlee.

apart from curiosity, war also kills a lot of cats.

[syam]

It seems like new generations of Kashmir are actively joining Paki team. What's more worrying is, our apathy to these attacks. They opened fire on Amaranath Yathri 2 years back. We totally forgot about the attack. Now this happened.

This is less to do with Pak or any other agent and more to do with the anti-india sentiment that is taking shape in the Valley day by day. We will never learn our lessons. You can't beat hate with more love. And more, average muslim in India probably thinks Kashmir belongs to Pak.

Course of action I suggest,
Step-1 - Arrange serial blasts all over Pak-punjab. It should be visible to all world.
Step-2 - Heat up the border and target every terrorist camp in PoK and nearby using whatever weapons we have.
Step-3 - Purge all anti-indian sentiments of Kashmir valley.

This will open lid on all Terror sympathizers both in-house and abroad. Declare passive war on them. Situation like this creates opening to nationalism. We have to promote it.

I know we can't do any of it because we live in democracy. But then what is life if not more challenges to man.

[Cain Marko]

I am not but having observed the country leadership and business community since mid 90's and across all the Kargils and 26/11 the lowest denominator seems to be avoid a full fledge war at all cost ......During Kargil war the Ambani had made a deal with Musharaf should a war errupt they wont attack his Jamnagar facility.

I dont see how it will be different this time around , There will be the same enormous pressure from top business community to avoid war at all cost.

Good points.. And in some ways dovetails with the case I was making that a real aamne saamne war won't happen because key peoples in tsp have much to lose as well.

[Shameek]

This article has the list of our brothers on the bus. Also claims that terrorists opened fire on other buses.

Link

[SSridhar]

MBS is visiting. TSP thinks it has carefully chosen the timing to avoid any retaliation immediately.

[Kashi]

If there's no retaliation, they'll be proven right. It's also right out of their playbook.

[Karthik S]

Just out of curiosity, why you are so afraid of a full fledged war?

yes, pray do tell, especially when other people have to fight it and we get to watch from the sidelines onlee.

Dear sir, please don't take any moral high ground and act cool. I am sure many of us are from cities which suffered numerous blasts, and we would have been to those very places before. God forbid, if govt changes in few months time, you know how things will again be. None of us can say we have been living on the sidelines. All of us are legitimate targets to our enemies. It's just you don't look it that way. BTW the cities where we live and our families live are a target for paki missiles should it escalate to a full scale war. So no, we will not be on the sidelines then either.

You are trying to give gyan and act cool because you didn't lose any family member yesterday. Look at the statements given by those soldiers' parents relatives, you'd know what they want. Or you'll give smart alec high horse reply to them as well?

[Karthik S]

MBS is visiting. TSP thinks it has carefully chosen the timing to avoid any retaliation immediately.

It will only be prudent if any foreign dignitary postpones any visit to that country at this time.

[Cain Marko]

The timing is interesting because it surely puts India under pressure to respond...

[Cain Marko]

For the sake of discussion what happens if India within hours launches a couple dozen bmos on say, Sargodha?

[anishns]

For the sake of discussion what happens if India within hours launches a couple dozen bmos on say, Sargodha?

And pigs will fly

[abhijitm]

For the sake of discussion what happens if India within hours launches a couple dozen bmos on say, Sargodha?

If we want to start war then start from navy. sink their ships. That sinks million dollar expensive toys and kills punjabi sailors in dozens too. That attrition is not pak is prepared for.

if we want land war then only way is to capture land, however small it could be. That is the only expensive piece pak is not ready to lose.

[chetak]

yes, pray do tell, especially when other people have to fight it and we get to watch from the sidelines onlee.

Dear sir, please don't take any moral high ground and act cool. I am sure many of us are from cities which suffered numerous blasts, and we would have been to those very places before. God forbid, if govt changes in few months time, you know how things will again be. None of us can say we have been living on the sidelines. All of us are legitimate targets to our enemies. It's just you don't look it that way. BTW the cities where we live and our families live are a target for paki missiles should it escalate to a full scale war. So no, we will not be on the sidelines then either.

You are trying to give gyan and act cool because you didn't lose any family member yesterday. Look at the statements given by those soldiers' parents relatives, you'd know what they want. Or you'll give smart alec high horse reply to them as well?

war is serious business.

the damage is wide spread, uncontrollable and it affects different layers of society, different aspects of the economy and seriously impacting international relations and inward bound investments.

It is you who are acting cool and trying to sound hip about a topic of which you know nothing.

Just take another look at the question and reflect.

" Just out of curiosity, why you are so afraid of a full fledged war? "

It is not a question that any sane person would ask.

[suryag]

India withdraws MFN status given to Pak, what does this mean in real terms? as in how much would it hurt on the money front ?

[Kashi]

It's a symbolic gesture, by itself it will not have much of an impact. Hopefully it means that IWT can be given the same treatment.

[Singha]

from tracking the war in iraq and syria for years I can say that SVBIED is final throw of dice when all other options have reached the point of low ROI
- human soocide bombers (caught or deterred by checkposts)
- IEDs (cellphone signals are jammable by mobile trucks)
- URI camp type squads - fences, human sentries, cctv, gaddi dogs/alsatians/malinois
- sniping & melting into woods - can do but small casualties, not useful for publicity

the syria/iraq theater is sparsely populated and open terrain, with no real wood or hill to stage ambushes from.
but there are populated towns and villages.
mostly the SVBIED were pickup trucks or proper trucks, reinforced with slabs of iron sheets and the windscreen having sheet metal too, with a slit for the driver. they were immune to HMG fire and could tolerate 20-30mm cannon fire as well upto an extent. only a tank cannon round or ATGM could take them down.

in open areas, or camps in open areas, ditches were made to stop them and a ATGM/tank crew kept on standby with spotters to give them time to go active .... ATGMs have a battery and need some seconds to warm up.

in congested urban fighting like mosul or fallujah they were much harder to defend against and often caused casualties. on some instances, iraqi tank crews sacrificed themselves to protect their comrades. dont know if they survived, probably not.

in J&K with villages on both sides of major roads and only local cops in jeeps to stop traffic when convoys pass, a heavy sumo/scorpio/fortuner packed in SVBIED mode will be able to drive through and hit the convoy, if they can get the explosives. there is no doubt about it or the availability of local suicide bombers. the only control will be checks on the large construction projects and mines all over incl railway projects to check diversion of explosives. even then explosives can be shipped in hidden among exim truck traffic from central india or coastal tracts but quantity will reduce.

it really is tough and needs nerves of steel to stand and fight against SVBIED attacks.

wherever the formations moved, the first order of business was deploy a dozer to pile up earth in berms against svbieds

take a good look and think of the J&K pop density, terrain, collateral villages etc....its harder than iraq and syria.

we will not be able to shoot at any suspicious vehicles the way murica does on its campaigns. and just rifle shooting may not work. CG or Shipon rockets may work. and it only takes one mistaken case of blowing up 10 kids going to school late in a truck to cause a major outcry.

this one self triggers falling into ditch


this one put down by a ATGM (milan - provided by germans and trained the peshmerga)


mosul - almost impossible to catch


egypt possibly sinai - tank crushes a svbied car and saves the rest


iraqi soldier uses a dozer to block a oncoming car svbied.

[Karthik S]

Dear sir, please don't take any moral high ground and act cool. I am sure many of us are from cities which suffered numerous blasts, and we would have been to those very places before. God forbid, if govt changes in few months time, you know how things will again be. None of us can say we have been living on the sidelines. All of us are legitimate targets to our enemies. It's just you don't look it that way. BTW the cities where we live and our families live are a target for paki missiles should it escalate to a full scale war. So no, we will not be on the sidelines then either.

You are trying to give gyan and act cool because you didn't lose any family member yesterday. Look at the statements given by those soldiers' parents relatives, you'd know what they want. Or you'll give smart alec high horse reply to them as well?

war is serious business.

the damage is wide spread, uncontrollable and it affects different layers of society, different aspects of the economy and seriously impacting international relations and inward bound investments.

It is you who are acting cool and trying to sound hip about a topic of which you know nothing.

Just take another look at the question and reflect.

" Just out of curiosity, why you are so afraid of a full fledged war? "

It is not a question that any sane person would ask.

OK so focus shifted from someone else is fighting to economy?

Go through below loop:

Terrorist strike happens ... Loss of Indian lives (civilian & military)... people demand retribution ... voices of ganga jamuna tehseeb, all knowing economic kunals follow: oh what if it escalates, what about full scale wars, someone else will be fighting, loss of economy, war is serious business... then we do nothing... Terrorist strike happens... Loss of Indian lives....

If this loop has to stop, which I assume you want it to, at which step do you think will make that happen?


Get the point?

[ashthor]

Karachi harbor should burn again. This time they will be waiting for us to strike back.

[Austin]

Yes easy to start a war but it may or may not end on your terms or beyond your control , we cant predict how the other side will react.

The damage to economy is unpredictable , Countries that support India now may not do the same once the war starts.

Thousand things that can go wrong and beyond your control and to which Indian leadership will be forced to react.

Even during Kargil , ABV took a decision not to let IAF cross LOC although as part of some combat mission it did but officially we held that line and stuck to it.

Its a very tough choice to deal for Indian leadership with those Jihadis MOFO named Pakis.

[Cain Marko]

Point is .. If India does escalate via say a missile strike. Does it automatically mean it will be an all out war?

[Karthik S]

India withdraws MFN status given to Pak, what does this mean in real terms? as in how much would it hurt on the money front ?

Nothing much, and this step should have happened some time back.

[Austin]

Point is .. If India does escalate via say a missile strike. Does it automatically mean it will be an all out war?

Missile Strike where inside Pakistan ? Will missile strike be an act of charity for Pakis to think its not an act of war ?

[Iyersan]

Elections are on the horizon. There will be no surgical strikes or War.. They will bid the time. They will use it as an opportunity to name masood Azhar as a terrorist and get china backing in return india will not do a thing to pakistan.

[abhijitm]

Yes easy to start a war

No, it is easy not to start a war. War needs lot of planning, preparation, cost benefit analysis, goal setting, and readiness. Or it needs a state of desperation. Either way a very tough decision, easy? no way. And then you need to prepare for imminent retaliation sooner or later.

I am not saying start a war exactly but we need to set price which pak is not willing to pay. That is the key. It can be a tactical response like sinking couple of ships taking sailors with them, or strategic like capture haji pir. Whatever we decide it has to be something that pak is not ready to part away.

[pankajs]

Indian response will always ALWAYS be *calibrated* for the crime.

1. Not too small to give the impression that such attacks are "cost free or low cost or without an equivalent pain"
2. Not too over the top to ignite an across the front war.

Will such a response stop bakistan. Hell no ...

Nothing short of total destruction will stop bakistan but are we prepared to go for an all out war and its attendant fallout's? Hell no ...

So this cycle keep repeating every couple of years? Yes .. while we continue our efforts to undermine the baki state from within.

Every GOI including Modi's has made economic development of India the priority even at the cost of occasional flareups with bakistan. No GOI including Modi's is ever going to initiate an all out war till it has options to extract an equivalent higher cost from the other side.