Pulwama Attack

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 16 Feb 2019 12:19

manjgu wrote:1) a few well placed IED's during funerals will be a good start 2) hurrirats car exploding in firebombs a good second 3) will have to think at take out terrorists families ( replicate what Putin did and what was done in punjab..the families ran for cover all over india and were hunted down). I think families of terrorists should be given ultimatum and safe passage across LOC. The property land etc can be distributed among the informers etc ! d) no mercy to stone pelters going forward e) a check on maluvis and imams of mosque..anyone peddling wrong ideas is wajub ul katl .

Why even allow funerals? Its a practice I JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND. And yes, the families need to be pushed out. Moulvis need to be made state employees and any child being indoctrinated should be taken into a foster care system/orphanage. Its not right that children are exposed to this BS.

But all of this can happen only after Pakistan is thrashed and the fence sitters can see that India has won the external war. I dont think its more than 5% of families that would be trouble makers. Rest will fall in line.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 16 Feb 2019 12:35

Wish TSD unit was not disbanded. And hope something similar is started soon if not already
working.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2019 12:35

^^ all the chankian strategies above can be started/adapted but 1st step is thrash TSP very publicly, humiliate it as weak and reduce the prestige of its army and leadership among the Qaum. then we can debate and deliberate over the soft power options.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 16 Feb 2019 12:38

Start by sinking a sub or 2 and blame it on non state actors

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2019 12:38

More Ravi Kant रवि कांत Retweeted Ravi Kant रवि कांत
Few outside media circles will know that Nidhi Sethi was once dating Ravish Kumar

No wonder, @NDTV merely suspended her for 2 weeks rather than termination of employmentRavi Kant रवि कांत added,

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 16 Feb 2019 12:49

As per twitter some 18 coffins are reportedly empty. Not a shred of body parts could be recovered....

I wan revenge right now. My heart burns to see Pakistan burning today.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 16 Feb 2019 12:52

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

There are riff raff in Mumbai (probably the opposition) heading gullible crowd doing forceful bandh - closing down shops & shutters they want to force the GoI to intervene & force Army hand and somehow precipitate a failed strike within few days.

Already i have come across even Raza academy doing Bindi bazar bandh on the day of the attack.

So watch out for usual suspects suddenly shouting the loudest for a retaliation strike.

In that vein we expect level headed thinking in this thread.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Feb 2019 12:54

Our strategy has to change on both the external and internal front.

1. Instead of defensive covert action we should now switch to offensive covert action on a continuous basis irrespective of the temp on LOC or Kashmir.
2. Start proactive de-weeding of black sheeps and mal-contents with extreme prejudice inside Kashmir

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 16 Feb 2019 13:14

Public humiliation of Puki fauji is most important followed by systematic degradation of Pakistan as a state in terms of military, law and order, economy, diplomatic reach, etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2019 13:22

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 16 Feb 2019 13:31

In twitter one is already seeing relentless targeting of NSA Ajit Doval the guy most capable of serving this dish to pakis as if in a cross border coordination.
Those who are least intent in executing an actual retaliation will raise the temperature to such a level that nothing short of a Nuclear attack on Pakistan will do - and when it expectantly doesnt occur they will target the govt while pushing the people into disillusionment - they are going to use disillusionment to deescalate the public outrage against the Pakis.Every one should act against his strategy of BIF.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzgq574UUAAk-_L.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzgq574VYAIlpYP.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzgrVXsVYAEbSGy.png

Lilo wrote:Revenge is a dish best served cold.

There are riff raff in Mumbai (probably the opposition) heading gullible crowd doing forceful bandh - closing down shops & shutters they want to force the GoI to intervene & force Army hand and somehow precipitate a failed strike within few days.

Already i have come across even Raza academy doing Bindi bazar bandh on the day of the attack.

So watch out for usual suspects suddenly shouting the loudest for a retaliation strike.

In that vein we expect level headed thinking in this thread.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Feb 2019 13:34

Useless post deleted

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Feb 2019 13:36

Good Debate involving Nitin Gokhle

How Will India Respond?

https://www.btvi.in/videos/how-will-ind ... ond-/31858

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 16 Feb 2019 13:38

self delete

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Feb 2019 13:41

https://twitter.com/atahasnain53/status ... 4888639488

Syed Ata Hasnain Verified account @atahasnain53

Aware there is great anger among all of us Indians and justifiably so but that's exactly what our adversary wants. Decisions taken in anger always blow back. My job-absorb your anger and offer sane options.I would be failing my 40 years experience dealing with this if I do not
12:04 PM - 14 Feb 2019

This is not life or death situation which requires hair-trigger response.

Never fire a gun in anger .. it is likely going to be a mistake. Fire the gun after deliberate and cold blooded thinking and planning.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Feb 2019 13:41

Lilo wrote:They have the backing of US and the combined might of West - India is on its own always.
All this is totally non germane to this thread.
Think before you post stuff trying to compare the valor of Indians & Indian Army with outsiders.

Absolutely.

dwaipayandhar · Post by **dwaipayandhar** » 16 Feb 2019 13:48

This Gaurav Pandhi seems like an out-an-out Congoon. Follow his Twitter handle to understand this guy and his intentions....
It seems that Congoons are pro-actively pushing the government to do something right now and at the same time targeting Ajit Doval and others.

The less said about Kavitha Krishnan, the better....

Lilo wrote:In twitter one is already seeing relentless targeting of NSA Ajit Doval the guy most capable of serving this dish to pakis as if in a cross border coordination.
Those who are least intent in executing an actual retaliation will raise the temperature to such a level that nothing short of a Nuclear attack on Pakistan will do - and when it expectantly doesnt occur they will target the govt while pushing the people into disillusionment - they are going to use disillusionment to deescalate the public outrage against the Pakis.Every one should act against his strategy of BIF.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzgq574UUAAk-_L.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzgq574VYAIlpYP.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzgrVXsVYAEbSGy.png

Lilo wrote:Revenge is a dish best served cold.

There are riff raff in Mumbai (probably the opposition) heading gullible crowd doing forceful bandh - closing down shops & shutters they want to force the GoI to intervene & force Army hand and somehow precipitate a failed strike within few days.

Already i have come across even Raza academy doing Bindi bazar bandh on the day of the attack.

So watch out for usual suspects suddenly shouting the loudest for a retaliation strike.

In that vein we expect level headed thinking in this thread.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Feb 2019 13:58

Lilo wrote:They have the backing of US and the combined might of West - India is on its own always.
All this is totally non germane to this thread.
Think before you post stuff trying to evoke comparisions of the valor of Indians & Indian Army with outsiders.

You better read and educate yourself before you mouth off. The reactors were sold to Iraq by France, which is not an east Asian country. Israelis pleaded to almost everyone including the "might of west" countries to stop Iraqis from the building reactor. Only when nobody, including your combined western powers, tried to stop the Iraqis from building a reactor, they opted for military action. In the raid, one French engineer lost his life. You read the aftermath of the raid, how many "western powers" supported Israel. Only during first gulf war, US acknowledged that had Israelis didn't knockout reactor, Saddam would have built nukes during the war. Saudis were overt enemies of Israel then and Iraq and Saudi equation was different from what it was during the first gulf war, so as one can guess how much US would have backed Israel completely. BTW Iraq had the support of USSR.

And don't take pains to imagine why I post something and try to put words in my mouth like evoke comparisions and all. I know what our military is capable of. I was more referring to political will, which I am sorry to say has been lacking with regards to pakis and kashmir.

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Feb 2019 13:59

I am all for "not act in haste", however we have had so many incidents, that GoI & Services should have an automatic response in place, with all the permutations and combinations war gamed.

Is someone telling me we did not expect Pulwama type incident to happen? we need to step back and think about our response? Utter nonsense.

If not on Feb 14, 2019, it would have happened on Feb 14, 2020 or 2021 or 2022. It would have happened regardless.

Ops Parakaram failed, not because of the mobilization timeline, becoz GoI had no plan to go to war. IA came up with Cold Start not to reduce mobilization time, but to give less time to GoI politician to re-consider their decision. It is about getting the GO-AHEAD.

Fire that first Brahmos, people will automatically mobilize.

We wait for couple of days more, then it gets in to the "coercive diplomacy" region. And we know what happens next..

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Feb 2019 14:02

All short and long term measures are fine and necessary. But that doesn't mean a punitive retaliatory strike shouldn't happen soon.

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Feb 2019 14:05

IAF is still in Vayusakthi mood.. so don't know what to make of it.

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 16 Feb 2019 14:09

I was unwell and not active in BR for quite sometime now. Pulwama attach and aftermath of commie newspaper responses forced me to come back here despite Login issues. Thanks for the MOD's help to restore access.

INDIA WILL RETALIATE STRONGLY, THE MESSAGE IS LOUD AND CLEAR FROM PM. We need to time our response at the time and place of our choice.
Not to force the GOI for immediate action. JAI HIND !!

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Feb 2019 14:09

It has to be, if they are planning on a surprise attack, everything should look normal to the other side.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 16 Feb 2019 14:10

Karthik S wrote:
Lilo wrote:They have the backing of US and the combined might of West - India is on its own always.
All this is totally non germane to this thread.
Think before you post stuff trying to evoke comparisions of the valor of Indians & Indian Army with outsiders.
You better read and educate yourself before you mouth off. The reactors were sold to Iraq by France, which is not an east Asian country. Israelis pleaded to almost everyone including the "might of west" countries to stop Iraqis from the building reactor. Only when nobody, including your combined western powers, tried to stop the Iraqis from building a reactor, they opted for military action. In the raid, one French engineer lost his life. You read the aftermath of the raid, how many "western powers" supported Israel. Only during first gulf war, US acknowledged that had Israelis didn't knockout reactor, Saddam would have built nukes during the war. Saudis were overt enemies of Israel then and Iraq and Saudi equation was different from what it was during the first gulf war, so as one can guess how much US would have backed Israel completely. BTW Iraq had the support of USSR.

And don't take pains to imagine why I post something and try to put words in my mouth like evoke comparisions and all. I know what our military is capable of. I was more referring to political will, which I am sorry to say has been lacking with regards to pakis and kashmir.

I repeat last time from my side, this terror attack doesnt concern Israel .
If you really have a problem understanding the backing Israel has in the West it is not my problem.And this is again completely OT to this thread.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Feb 2019 14:17

Karthik S wrote:
Lilo wrote:They have the backing of US and the combined might of West - India is on its own always.
All this is totally non germane to this thread.
Think before you post stuff trying to evoke comparisions of the valor of Indians & Indian Army with outsiders.
~~You better read and educate yourself before you mouth off.~~The reactors were sold to Iraq by France, which is not an east Asian country. Israelis pleaded to almost everyone including the "might of west" countries to stop Iraqis from the building reactor. Only when nobody, including your combined western powers, tried to stop the Iraqis from building a reactor, they opted for military action. In the raid, one French engineer lost his life. You read the aftermath of the raid, how many "western powers" supported Israel. Only during first gulf war, US acknowledged that had Israelis didn't knockout reactor, Saddam would have built nukes during the war. Saudis were overt enemies of Israel then and Iraq and Saudi equation was different from what it was during the first gulf war, so as one can guess how much US would have backed Israel completely. BTW Iraq had the support of USSR.

And don't take pains to imagine why I post something and try to put words in my mouth like evoke comparisions and all. I know what our military is capable of. I was more referring to political will, which I am sorry to say has been lacking with regards to pakis and kashmir.

Stay civil please. You can make your points without being abrasive. Lilo, you too please.

Guys, I know emotions are running high. Just take a walk and deep breath, then post. We want you to keep analyzing and posting not get into a spat at this time.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Feb 2019 14:18

Good points Nam.

nam wrote:I am all for "not act in haste", however we have had so many incidents, that GoI & Services should have an automatic response in place, with all the permutations and combinations war gamed.

Is someone telling me we did not expect Pulwama type incident to happen? we need to step back and think about our response? Utter nonsense.

If not on Feb 14, 2019, it would have happened on Feb 14, 2020 or 2021 or 2022. It would have happened regardless.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Feb 2019 14:20

ANI Verified account@ANI
Follow Follow @ANI
More
Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Edappadi K. Palaniswami has announced government jobs to one family member each of the two CRPF personnel from the state who lost their lives in #PulwamaAttack. (file pic)

Good decision by TN govt.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 16 Feb 2019 14:21

nam wrote:I am all for "not act in haste", however we have had so many incidents, that GoI & Services should have an automatic response in place, with all the permutations and combinations war gamed.

Is someone telling me we did not expect Pulwama type incident to happen? we need to step back and think about our response? Utter nonsense.

If not on Feb 14, 2019, it would have happened on Feb 14, 2020 or 2021 or 2022. It would have happened regardless.

Ops Parakaram failed, not because of the mobilization timeline, becoz GoI had no plan to go to war. IA came up with Cold Start not to reduce mobilization time, but to give less time to GoI politician to re-consider their decision. It is about getting the GO-AHEAD.

Fire that first Brahmos, people will automatically mobilize.

We wait for couple of days more, then it gets in to the "coercive diplomacy" region. And we know what happens next..

Watch this starting 11:40 Army chief tells in his own words the options
https://youtu.be/SKIKe_u1lNQ?t=700

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Feb 2019 14:21

Karthik S wrote:It has to be, if they are planning on a surprise attack, everything should look normal to the other side.

It would be a surprise, if we had carried out preemptive strike.

Post incident, an Indian response is not a surprise. Longer the wait, easier for Pak to defend and world powers forcing GoI's hand to call off.

All Pak has to do is publicly arrest Masood joker and put him in jail for safe keeping till this blows over... Watch what happens next..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Feb 2019 14:22

Iran supported india yesterday on the attack and now this

The Spectator Index
The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
BREAKING: Iranian general says his country will take its own measures if Pakistan does not punish militants who attacked Revolutionary Guards

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Feb 2019 14:23

Need to work jointly with Iran to restrain pakis

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2019 14:27

a all-party meet attended by the HM was held in parliament today.

I hope we dont hear the dreaded words like UNSC, dossier, international community, red corner notice from all this.

people are prepared for some sacrifices to their day to day life. govt should not shy away from the hard decisions that involve short term discomfort.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2019 14:27

Austin wrote:Need to work jointly with Iran to restrain pakis

there aint no restraining or managing a mad dog brother. either suffer its bites or "take care of it"

people in the mohalla usually get together to corner the mad dog and put it down.

in the larger geopolitical context, TSP getting a well deserved thrashing will be a gross humiliation and loss of face for chinese leadership and curtail their dreams of being P1

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Feb 2019 14:31

Austin wrote:Need to work jointly with Iran to restrain pakis

First let us fire off some of missiles, we have in our inventory. The Iranians will get the message and do their usual thing.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 16 Feb 2019 14:32

The all party resolution lacks seriousness and reads like run of the mill routine stuff.

The PM in his speech didn't even mention the "neighbouring country". He restricted himself to saying "terror organization's".

Train 18 flagged off. Developmental works in Maharashtra inaugurated. Indian Ambassador from Pakistan lands here and poses for snaps smiling. Barring the removal of MFN, no other official announcement.

So looks like back to business as usual.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Feb 2019 14:35

Great find Lilo. Recommend everyone raging inside to watch this.

Lilo wrote:Watch this starting 11:40 Army chief tells in his own words the options
https://youtu.be/SKIKe_u1lNQ?t=700

komal · Post by **komal** » 16 Feb 2019 14:35

self deleted

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 16 Feb 2019 14:43

Karan M wrote:Great find Lilo. Recommend everyone raging inside to watch this.

Lilo wrote:Watch this starting 11:40 Army chief tells in his own words the options
https://youtu.be/SKIKe_u1lNQ?t=700

Please note that this interview is dated 25th September 2018

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Feb 2019 14:48

Lilo wrote:
nam wrote:I am all for "not act in haste", however we have had so many incidents, that GoI & Services should have an automatic response in place, with all the permutations and combinations war gamed.

Is someone telling me we did not expect Pulwama type incident to happen? we need to step back and think about our response? Utter nonsense.

If not on Feb 14, 2019, it would have happened on Feb 14, 2020 or 2021 or 2022. It would have happened regardless.

Ops Parakaram failed, not because of the mobilization timeline, becoz GoI had no plan to go to war. IA came up with Cold Start not to reduce mobilization time, but to give less time to GoI politician to re-consider their decision. It is about getting the GO-AHEAD.

Fire that first Brahmos, people will automatically mobilize.

We wait for couple of days more, then it gets in to the "coercive diplomacy" region. And we know what happens next..
Watch this starting 11:40 Army chief tells in his own words the options
https://youtu.be/SKIKe_u1lNQ?t=700

The most relevant portion starts @ 13:00 where he makes 3 points.
1. There are many plans of action.
2. We keep making [new] plans
3. Keep discussing and making changes as needed

Now, my reading of this titbit is as follows.
1. Need to choose from amongst a set of options.
2. Update plans in light of the latest information/wargame/across the border intel/etc.

Both of the above point make it *near* impossible to launch a Response on terror strike unless the plan calls for hits to fixed targets like ISI headquarters or Sargoda airbase. AFTER a choice from amongst the option has been made, it needs to be updated for the the latest intel from across the border.

IIRC, This is exactly what happened the last time even when prior intel of terror launch pad was available from day 1. GOI/Forces re-confirmed the target(s) BEFORE any offensive was launched. Why should it be different this time?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Feb 2019 14:57

Pak already started moving terrorists away from bases close to the border and closing some camps. GoI don’t want this to turn into a propaganda exercise as Pak will claim India killed civilians

So goi carefully weighing options. Operation all out 3 is an option first