Pulwama Attack

[Pratyush]

So if they are sure that ISI had a hand in this what stops them from lobbying a brahmos at ISI HQ? Seriously... Is tsp going to go all out in retaliation? I doubt it.

The problem is we have 500 or so Bramhos when we probably need 25000 cm's to deal with Paksitan along with 15000 BM

Why not get 40000 Sudershan lgb. Having fixed whatever that ails it. Or GPS guided bombs.

Don't be fixated on CM or BM.

[chetak]

I am amazed. Numb. WHY were we spending taxpayers money to provide security cover to HIJACKERS??

Looks like J&K state admin has chickened out even in this case - not in security withdrawal list.

Junaid Qureshi @JQ_plaintalk

My father,Hashim Qureshi,has suffered torture at the hands of ISI and spent years in jail in Pakistan.

In the wake of reports of withdrawing his security, let it be clear that the dispensation in J&K and Delhi will be responsible if anything untoward happens to him or my family.

2:24 AM - 17 Feb 2019

Bharti Jain Verified account @bhartijainTOI

Bharti Jain Retweeted Junaid Qureshi

Your father hijacked an Air India aircraft and took it to Lahore. Not a good reason for him to enjoy security and govt facilities

[pankajs]

If we carried out standoff attack and say "we hit terror, our job done, we call for ceasefire". "If Pak retaliates, it proves state support for LeT& JeM and we have the right to defend."

This puts pressure on US to prevent any escalation. It will allow Pak to give off some steam (which we will return in kind) and force Pak for ceasefire.

A ceasefire and stalemate. Which is what we want.

1. Hit
2. Declare *limited* operations over.
3. Wait for the response and be prepared to Respond back.
4. Loop 1-3 till the Bakis give up.

My assumption is that they will run out of Ammo faster than India. Wear them out just as they are trying to do to us via proxies.

[hemant_sai]

I think we should simplify things and ask one question, are we ready for war or not? If not, then no need to discuss anything of this - soft options being carried by govt are enough. If yes, then go for all out war - result should be 1] Get complete J&K back with No 370&35A 2] Free Balochistan & Pashtuns 3] Break Sindh away as separate nation but with No military - on the lines of Bhutan. ***We shouldn't include Sindh in India.
The day this will be achieved at whatever cost - India and it's neighboring region will start their journey of Golden Time.

[viveks]

The way the news reports indicate about Imran Khan press release...it looks Pakistani administration is either pretending or is totally not in knowledge of existence of such groups within their nation. I recommend a Brittle Brahmos launch...no explosive traces or missile traces at some of their madrassa schools...where they find traces of the whereabouts most wanted terrorists.

Koi sala sir phira bhi toh nahi jo accidentally missile launch kar de..ahaha...I was talking about the movie "Under siege"...I watched it again as tribute.

[pankajs]

There are many levels between war and peace. GOI has to respond even if it i just proportional. Ideally it should be with interest but I will accept principal payback if it comes to that. We can sustain low level *engagement* for far longer then they can.

[Aditya_V]

Do not waste Brahmos on Madrasas, Hit PA troops.

[ks_sachin]

Heard that some Kashmiri students who have come to other states to study have been denied admission or barred.

Any truth to this?

[Arima]

So if they are sure that ISI had a hand in this what stops them from lobbying a brahmos at ISI HQ? Seriously... Is tsp going to go all out in retaliation? I doubt it.

When we carried out Surgical strike in 16, we did not know how Pak will respond. We were ready for full war, border villages were emptied and IAF went full alert.

Yet, when Pak had the chance to retaliate, it choose to say SS never happened! All the bluster about Nasr & TNW if even one Indian soldier cross over yada yada...Nothing happened.

We found the antidote. As long as we carried out a full fledged invasion, Pak can deny it or not able to justify "TNW".

If we carried out standoff attack and say "we hit terror, our job done, we call for ceasefire". "If Pak retaliates, it proves state support for LeT& JeM and we have the right to defend."

This puts pressure on US to prevent any escalation. It will allow Pak to give off some steam (which we will return in kind) and force Pak for ceasefire.

A ceasefire and stalemate. Which is what we want.

It is easier for Pak to deny strike since all of the dead are expendable jihadis (i dont know whether any regular army personals where killed) which means no trace or no pressure to report to there family.
attack itself happened in POK where there is no media. so media narrative can be controlled.
accepting attack will make public question Army as to how many died, how many they managed to kill in return, pressure/humiliation of it etc etc

Unless punjabi pak is attacked in full view of general public, humiliation cannot be served.

[chetak]

MBS with his new driver.

[pankajs]

So now Bakistan has committed to a public response to a public chaddi pulling ... very good. Still no nuclear card flashed. We will see.

Now is the right time to reverse the game. We equate every hit by a proxy with the state of bakistan and respond. Instead of them putting a question to India we put a question to them. Are they going to put up or shut up? There is no other way to brush away a public response.

Be prepared for multiple round of back and forth. Our economy and arsenal can sustain a lower level of hostility for longer. Force them flash the nuke card and then hit them at their core with Brahmos and let them decide.

[jaysimha]

Heard that some Kashmiri students who have come to other states to study have been denied admission or barred.

Any truth to this?

it is again a propaganda by BIF and toylet papers.

[ArjunPandit]

^^it's gotten so boring hearing dimran, I heard the pearls of wisdom. So making you endure them
1. He's asking for actionable proofs
2. He's ready to talk for terrorism before Kashmir
3. IF india attacks they will respond. No nuclear bogey this time
4. Naya paksitan,
5. why would they do it, they are organizing a summit it does not serve their purpose
i could have a paki parrot or saudi robot sophia speaking the same thing, since the times of Musharraf.
At least in times of musharraf people would speak with passion and bring the nuclear bogey to hear joshilay responses from paddy. It has gotten so dull. Close this thread, nothing is happening. Imran has warned India, we have eliminated the JeM leadership in valley. What else we guys want, B'mos strikes on pindi/sargodha?
kal bhairav janmdiwas was in this december and durgashtmi is still far away. Mahashivratri i will keep fast again

[Aditya_V]

Lets not care whether Pakis will deny strike or not, as long as many PA die the message will reach there, we can always drop hints at a later date.

[Arima]

on record Imran khan said Pak will retaliate if attacked. so for India, either mount big secret operation which Pak can deny like surgical strike, or attack openly selected targets and wait for retaliation.

[Karthik S]

you do not sit and wait for retaliation. You knock out their jets, airfields, known missile sites etc in the first wave.

[Arima]

Pulwama fallout: Pakistanis in Bikaner asked to leave within 48 hours

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/pulwama-fallout-pakistanis-in-bikaner-asked-to-leave-within-48-hours/articleshow/68061093.cms

does this have hidden meaning?

[Singha]

our never ending preparationg to give a mukka (finally!) to tsp is how my sister prepares for a few hours of deep study...
cleans the table , arranges the books, sharpens the pencils, refills the pens, searches for notebook .... by that time she is too tired to study or gets distracted and goes away.

conversely great leader Kim ji gets up in a bad mood one morning and decides to make someone, anyone pay.
he reaches across his walnut desk and presses the green button labelled 'inflict pain'
from the misty wooded mountains, camouflaged positions, the mighty koksan 170mm howitzers start to spit out rounds downrange...

Kim ji - hate to say it, could be a role model in how to play the big game for overintelligent, double MA from jadavpur and presidency kallage, analytical yindu.

today not enough brahmos - we need 1500 to be comfortable
tomorrow not enough dhanush - need atleast 2000 saar
day after tomorrow not enough PGMs
next week - hey not enough 155mm ammo
next to next week - we need to stockpile more POL as war reserve
next month - delay in delivery of russian spares , elections or some dignitary is visiting

[Arima]

you do not sit and wait for retaliation. You knock out their jets, airfields, known missile sites etc in the first wave.

It takes guts to retaliate which i dont think Pak has.
It is interesting to see who from Indian side will retaliate Imrans statement. war of words starting

[Singha]

>> war of words starting

we are good at this. I am sure a befitting salvo will be fired back, if not in shells atleast in words!

[Mollick.R]

Sir, ferociously angry guy inside me gives 101 Topon Ki Salami to this remark of yours.

But practically speaking do you think is it possible that every day we fire 500-1000 full metal jackets to stone pelting piglets

Perhaps options like LRAD should also be evaluated.

I am afraid why your eyes can't see the reality/truth? I ask this question to all my friends, why most Bharatiya have bad cognitive abelity? DNA defect I guess.

Throw stones on Indian Army, the person is declaring treason. There is only one remedy for treason, death. You yourself call out such person as piglet, connect the next dot, its not human, just rabid dog humanoid, handle it by giving it's destiny.

Dont want to offend by my plain speak, just trying to wake up sleeping countrymen.

Sir, count on me. I'm absolutely on same page with you. While sleeping i too get dreams of "Final Soln" applied by someone in somewhere in globe some 70-75 years ago. (Also BR being an open public forum can't write open-hearted. Don't want mods coming on me harshly or causing problems to the platform itself (remember mods pulling out Nukkar Thread, Judicial Issues Discussion Thread and even getting some complains from ISPs in some Bdeshi soil ????).

But when I wake up, I do realize day dreaming affects of watching too much HalyyVood cineema on that topic. Being a mango man & keyboard warrior best i could come up was LARD type solutions only.

Cheers.

[chandrasekaran]

Retaliation must have happened within the first 24 hours. So many gruesome attacks and yet we don't have a plan that can be put into action within a few hours.

As expected Imran has spoken out after meeting the Saud's. He has made two points. A veiled nuclear threat, albeit not direct, but its there and has directly sent a message to Break India Forces that any action by Shri Modi is essentially due to election compulsions. Expect the BIF within to tow this line immediately.

My angst is what Singha'ji points out above. By dragging it so much, we ourselves are raising the retaliation bar to impossible heights eventually chickening out.

For the record, I am not for any more surgical strikes against an alert enemy. Too much risk for too little a gain. Even as I know it now almost impossible, I long for a single but huge attack wave, involving both the Navy and the airforce to take out their military industrial complex and a few 1000 pounders on their fauji residences.

[Ashokk]

Israel offers unconditional help to India to defend itself, especially against terror: Envoy

NEW DELHI: Israel has offered unconditional help to India in defending itself, especially against terrorism, asserting that "there is no limit" to its assistance, an assurance which assumes significance amid demands that the government should consider Israeli-type retaliation to terror strikes.

The comments by newly-appointed Israeli envoy Dr Ron Malka came in response to a question on up to what extent Jerusalem will go to help India which has been a victim of terrorism.

[Aditya_V]

you do not sit and wait for retaliation. You knock out their jets, airfields, known missile sites etc in the first wave.

Having studied about IAF strikes, it will take a combination of alteast 100-150 Bombs to take out 1 Airfieild, imagine first disable the run ways with accurate CM/BM strike, while it is being repaired accurate PGM's have to dropped on the all various dispersed Fighter aircraft in their pens and outside, along with fuel and ammo storage facilities. To do this on all PAF airfeilds we do not have the capability.

Even the USA /NATO could not do that do that to the Iraqi airforce in 1991 or Serbia in 1999.

And that would definitely be a full sale war which might be acceptable on BRF but clearly not by the general population in India. This is where you need to Induct these systems through cold hard calculations over a period of time. Lets not forget by dily dalling on LCA, converting M-2000-5 buy into MMRCA circus with nothing being ordered, canceling Denel, artillery upgrades and by keeping ammo stock at 25%, SU-30 fleet availability at less than 40%. UPA had effectively disarmed India. It will take 10-15 years of proper focus where we can offensively be armed in a manner that war with Pakistan is not a gamble but a certain and quick victory. We also need enough nuke with deliverable warheads to wipe out Pakistan of the map and keep enough spare weapons and delivery platforms to deter anyone else in case Pakis use a Nuke.

Right now the best we can do is hit a Paki troop transport to cause enough casualties to put Pakis to downhill ski while we prepare ourselves.

[wig]

some facets of the pulwama terror attack
1.The car used was a Maruti EECO van
2. high intensity 'Military grade' RDX used. the quantity was 50- 70 kg

excerpted from article

Pulwama probe: Military grade RDX used points to Pakistan

The expert, who specialised in study of IEDs and explosives used in bombings world over, has also opined that this is the "first
ever such bombing" in India mirroring vehicle-borne suicide bombings carried out by Islamic State and al-Qaida terror groups in
West Asian countries. There was a massive black smoke after the blast, and everything melted, like seen in car bombings in
West Asia.
He also ruled out the Pulwama bomb being completely similar to the 2000 Badami Bagh suicide car bomb and the one used in
the 2001 J&K assembly attack in which a terrorist rammed a car into the gates of the assembly before blowing it up. "While the
teenager in the Badami Bagh incident had panicked before the attack, the J&K assembly bomber also took some time to
trigger the bomb," he said.
This shows that Pulwama bomber Aadil Ahmad Dar was fully prepared mentally to blow himself up along with the CRPF jawans,
a theory which gives little credence to the possibility of somebody else triggering the bomb from a distance. Intelligence and
investigation agencies are worried that military grade explosives such as RDX, PETN (Pentaerythritol Tetranitrate), TNT
(Trinitrotoluene) are being used by terrorists in Kashmir

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 055621.cms

[habal]

Considering the inordinate time being taken for a response, I think nation is being prepared for another clever by half move against a few odd terrorists and not even a single hutment of TSPA will be targetted.

If jaish & LeT hq are targeted, it would send a message to TSPA that they can do another pulwama and we will be scratching our head for further soft targets. As such no jihadis will be hanging around jaish hq after 5 days.

As for Pakistan's retaliation against any srike, the power equations are such that with every retaliation the pakistanis will slide much more because the counter will be worse for them. Only issue is Indian decision makers having balls to go through the entire rigmarole.

[hanumadu]

I saw a few tweets, that the Kashmiri handi craft shops all over India are used to provide funds to the terrorists. We should spread a message to boycott them.

[Lilo]

Considering the inordinate time being taken for a response......


I think nation is being prepared for another clever by half move against a few odd terrorists and not even a single hutment of TSPA will be targetted.

Your popcorn getting stale or what Habal ji ?
Didnt know the movie is running this late as per your extensive movie organizing experience... how much did you pay?
try asking the organizers(Indian Army) for refund !

[Peregrine]

Regarding Import of Terroristani Origin Cargoes into India using PG Ports for Transshipment.

Speaking to a person who is connected with Indian Import-Export Trade I have been advised as follows :

The Government of India should Employ Inspectors in Indian Ports for checking the Contents of the Containers at the Indian Port of Arrival for any Terroristani Goods.

On finding these Goods the Customs or Other Authorities can charge the Duty of say 400% on the Goods of Terroristani Origin.Alternatively these goods can be confiscated and if necessary Destroyed.

He cautioned that the Pakistani Goods may be packed or repacked in "Indian" or other Nation's Packaging but then it would be foolish for Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi or Indian or Malaysian etc. to ship the Goods via the Persian Gulf Ports.

Cheers

[chandrasekaran]

Here is that article. It seems the sales is too low anyways. Mostly used apparently to launder money and may be collect intelligence.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spot ... s-the-eye/

[Lisa]

I view this as an opportunity to 'straighten out' the LOC in selected areas, permanently.

[ArjunPandit]

I view this as an opportunity to 'straighten out' the LOC in selected areas, permanently.

I view this as correcting compulsions/accomodations/mistakes of past, e.g., return of haji peer pass, forgetting khyber pass

[Lisa]

Regarding Import of Terroristani Origin Cargoes into India using PG Ports for Transshipment.

Speaking to a person who is connected with Indian Import-Export Trade I have been advised as follows :

The Government of India should Employ Inspectors in Indian Ports for checking the Contents of the Containers at the Indian Port of Arrival for any Terroristani Goods.

On finding these Goods the Customs or Other Authorities can charge the Duty of say 400% on the Goods of Terroristani Origin.Alternatively these goods can be confiscated and if necessary Destroyed.

He cautioned that the Pakistani Goods may be packed or repacked in "Indian" or other Nation's Packaging but then it would be foolish for Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi or Indian or Malaysian etc. to ship the Goods via the Persian Gulf Ports.

Cheers

I wrote this some years ago,

" ie that is to say in the context of shipping that any vessel discharging or charging cargo in Pakistan may not call at any Indian port or harbour in that trip or in any future occasion, ie force an increase in cost of transit of goods to Pakistan."

[habal]

Considering the inordinate time being taken for a response......


I think nation is being prepared for another clever by half move against a few odd terrorists and not even a single hutment of TSPA will be targetted.

Your popcorn getting stale or what Habal ji ?
Didnt know the movie is running this late as per your extensive movie organizing experience... how much did you pay?
try asking the organizers(Indian Army) for refund !

that indeed is one of the possibilities. The other is the response will be greater than expected. The nature and extent of response will be as revealing as nature of the attack which was carried on pakistans eastern and western borders simultaneously including usage of Rdx to eliminate any doubts as to who were behind the attack.

[Rishi_Tri]

Heard somewhere that 35-40 pigs have been sent to Jahannum!! Not sure whether it is true.

[UlanBatori]

I am amazed. Numb. WHY were we spending taxpayers money to provide security cover to HIJACKERS??

Salaam babuji. Perhaps some "restraint" is in order. Things are not always what they seem. Particularly with "JKLF". Enough said. Check out ALL activities of JKLF and trace the "Action-Reaction" chain and think about it. Don't say it.

[Chinmayanand]

5 days after terrorist attack, apart from bombast and hot air , nothing solid reaction is seen. Response is not going to come.

As per press conference by IA, Pulwama attack has been avenged. This is the message from military after being given full free hand .

When we can't respond to a terror strike , God knows what will happen if somebody launches a nuke at India. The country is governed by timidity at its highest level.

A weak , poor , ill-equipped Pakistan , militarily inferior , it's PM has dared India to attack and we will find Chanakian twists. Pakistan is poor , it's military not at par with India's but has the stomach to fight. Let's admit the obvious : Indian leadership and military forces do not have the stomach to enter the fight which Pakistan eggs on. Pakistan knows it.

Strength of Pakistan lies in its army generals while Indian weakness lies in our politicians. I think after late Mrs. Gandhi , indian politicians are no match to the paki generals & ISI .

It's a fight between pakistan army and Indian politicians. In this fight , Indian politicians will always be at the receiving end .
Unless we make the fight equal between pakistani army and Indian Army , India will always lose because politicians want votes, power & money. They do not care about anything else.

Pakistan army is fighting . Indian politicians are playing politics.
Both doing what they are supposed to do .

I am disappointed by the Indian armed forces who can not come up with a response in 5 days even after being given a free hand .
The response mechanism of our forces is a cause of concern.

Yesterday ,Amit Shah announced coalition with Shivsena. Today , Piyush Goyal announced coalition with AIADMK. It's time we , the public , start shouting ," Abki Baar , Fir Modi Sarkar "

When a country like India did not avenge a terror attack on its parliament , this Pulwama is nothing. Time to forget and move on.
As a nation , India is coward with no stomach to fight back . Rest , we can brainstorm and come up with thousands of excuses like lack of enough missiles , lack of element of surprise ..Bla bla bla.

[UlanBatori]

ramana: Your take on KSA-PRC is interesting. If that is the case, all the less reason for hesitation to support Iranian drive through Afghan territory to secure the southern border of Afghanistan. With IAF based in Iran providing air cover/ support as needed. In concert with USAF, to protect Afghanistan.

Targets will OF COURSE be terrorists inside Afghan territory, hain? With total support of Afghan guvrmand. Strictly defensive onlee. An occasional ALCM might fall on PA in Balochistan totally by accident.

[UlanBatori]

Plus, remember that there is already an IAF presence in another country which shall not be named. I assume that it is not for Cultural Exchange only? So I think the minimal assets are already in place.

[Lilo]

Your popcorn getting stale or what Habal ji ?
Didnt know the movie is running this late as per your extensive movie organizing experience... how much did you pay?
try asking the organizers(Indian Army) for refund !

that indeed is one of the possibilities. The other is the response will be greater than expected. The nature and extent of response will be as revealing as nature of the attack which was carried on pakistans eastern and western borders simultaneously including usage of Rdx to eliminate any doubts as to who were behind the attack.

First you complain that movie is getting late... I as per your own admission rightly surmise that you must be getting impatient because your popcorn is getting stale ..

Now you are no longer complaining about movie starting Time & start rambling to us all here describing the trailer to the Movie (which we all saw already) while predicting the yet to be revealed Story in such general terms with theatricality of predicting a coin toss will have only two outcomes - and nothing else!

Ok.