Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Feb 2019 21:21

Arun.prabhu wrote:Madness. You're okay with destroying millennia of history and possibly our entire culture because a madman fanatic killed 40 fellow citizens? Wow!

Hopefully, no one in command authority is this fanatical. There is no difference between the raghead dimwits and us if they are.



Nonsense. Nuclear war is entirely winnable and planners have been on this for decades. TSP has limited Pu239 weapons nor any significant production. The only facility is in Khushab. Any movement of spent fuel from civilian reactors and or at Khushab will set off unkil’s alarm bells. Their weapons are based on U235 which will be a radiological hazard and difficult to deliver. Probably no worse than living in a polluted Delhi.

India must use enhanced radiation (fast nuetron) devices on TSP and at least a dozen smaller devices on TSP military with a combined yield of over 100KT.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 21:40

List of active Indian military aircraft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... y_aircraft

we can bring about 500 fighter/bombers + 114 Bisons into the fight = 614 and assuming a wartime availability of around 65-70% on fleetwide basis you can expect around 400 a/c to be flyable any given day over a 2-3 week war. so around 500-750 attack sorties (CAS, BAI, DPSA) per day should be available, with rest being CAPs and escort missions and recce.

we also have 75 dhruv for logistics and more than 200 Mi17. army has another 145 dhruvs. total rudras albeit armed with cannons stands around 30 plus 17 hinds.

we have between 66-100 Hawks (which played CAS role in vayushakti) and 7 mi2k and 26 jags which are 2 seater and can surely perform the LGB role.
the hawks dozens of them are in the long blue hangars https://www.google.com/maps/@17.9010692 ... a=!3m1!1e3

the Paks can nowhere match any of these numbers, esp the long reach of the 250 sukhois.

they can wage the aerial version of nightly guerilla warfare since we dont have enough AWACS for 24 hr coverage and not enough cruise missiles to keep shutting their airbases every 12 hours with repeat strikes.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Arun.prabhu » 25 Feb 2019 21:45

There is survival and there is survival. Take out Mumbai, Delhi and a few other industrial/administrative/population nodes and we'll see in what kind of shape India survives for the next generation. Thirty or forty million productive citizens dead or uprooted will ruin our generation and possibly our children's as well. And if they use ground detonations, how much will we spend cleaning up the irradiated material from the fallout, I wonder? Or how long? What about the secondary effects? disease, famine, privation?

We aren't talking Genghiz khan and the millions his conquests killed here. The dead people you're talking about will be our fellow citizens and they won't be statistics. They'll be the worst tragedy ever visited on our motherland. How can you folks discuss the deaths of our fellow citizens and our children as if they're statistics? They are living flesh and blood. Our living flesh and blood.

'Nuclear war is winnable and planners have been on this for decades.' Oh, yes, it's winnable all right. If millions of casualties in a day or even a few hours can mean winning, sure! We'll win. And the first one to hit wins, provided they get all/most of the other's nukes (and notice we don't have a first use doctrine.) It is survivable for the planners who usually build shelters capable of surviving a blast as well as the fallout for a reasonable amount of time. But what about the ordinary folks?

Talk not of killing millions as if it's the easiest thing in the world. It's perverse, sick, disgusting and monstrous.

Mort Walker wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:Madness. You're okay with destroying millennia of history and possibly our entire culture because a madman fanatic killed 40 fellow citizens? Wow!

Hopefully, no one in command authority is this fanatical. There is no difference between the raghead dimwits and us if they are.



Nonsense. Nuclear war is entirely winnable and planners have been on this for decades. TSP has limited Pu239 weapons nor any significant production. The only facility is in Khushab. Any movement of spent fuel from civilian reactors and or at Khushab will set off unkil’s alarm bells. Their weapons are based on U235 which will be a radiological hazard and difficult to deliver. Probably no worse than living in a polluted Delhi.

India must use enhanced radiation (fast nuetron) devices on TSP and at least a dozen smaller devices on TSP military with a combined yield of over 100KT.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby yensoy » 25 Feb 2019 21:48

Nuclear annihilation is not worth it unless we take down Paki's four fathers along with them.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby ricky_v » 25 Feb 2019 21:50

Arun.prabhu wrote:Madness. You're okay with destroying millennia of history and possibly our entire culture because a madman fanatic killed 40 fellow citizens? Wow!
Hopefully, no one in command authority is this fanatical. There is no difference between the raghead dimwits and us if they are.

What number would be OK by you for this event to occur; clearly 40 is a low number, how about a 100? 1000? 5000? Tallying up the kills by the pigs of our armed forces and civvies throughout the years may reach that figure;or are you concerned with just one off incidents to satisfy that quota? Why even keep our weapons, lets dispose off them because the enemy is threatened by its presence and may "destroy our culture";clearly funding nukes and affiliated programs are a drain on our resources and their presence poisons the air of peace and prosperity we wish to project.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 21:51

nukular exchange would just play into the hands of the dlagon.

to join the rank of P2 in 2050 we have to judiciously guard our future prospects.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Feb 2019 21:51

^^^Please spare me. Don’t think if India doesn’t retaliate that Mumbai and Delhi will not be hit. Finishing this now as opposed to later is far more preferable. If you don’t like this talk then go hold candles at the border and continue to mourn the deaths of Indians in the future.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Arun.prabhu » 25 Feb 2019 21:53

If they initiate a nuclear exchange, walk our nuclear arsenal up the Punjab valley, making sure to contaminate their precious rivers - modern equivalent of salting the ground that the Romans did in Carthage. But to initiate an exchange? Cannot be allowed to happen.

yensoy wrote:Nuclear annihilation is not worth it unless we take down Paki's four fathers along with them.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Muppalla » 25 Feb 2019 21:54

Karan M wrote:Guys, please dont ask leading questions about current Indian eqpt especially latest kit. Pak stuff is fine.

Sure. Let us only document Pak's missiles if we can find.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Karthik S » 25 Feb 2019 21:56

Looks like pakis have handful of YJ 62 and YJ-83 AShM. Their range is somewhere around 300km as per wiki. IN should engage these ships at BraMos ER's max standoff range.
Their major surface combatant vessels are 4 zulfiqar class frigates, 4 tariq class frigates, 1 alamgir class frigate and 7 odd small missile boats. Along with this 5 agosta class vessels.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Arun.prabhu » 25 Feb 2019 21:59

We have a logician here! If I quote a number, you'll say, how about that number minus one. So logical, so reasoned.

You know what, ****** it. Get it through your thick skulls. Nuclear weapons are not for use at the drop of your ****** hat. Their use case is to defend our nation's existence and survival. Barring those two use cases, there aren't any reasons or scenarios where we can use them.

Spoiled, rotten children who have never seen bloodshed - I haven't seen any either, but at least I seem to understand what a life and it's loss means - talking of killing millions as if it were a walk in the park.

ricky_v wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:Madness. You're okay with destroying millennia of history and possibly our entire culture because a madman fanatic killed 40 fellow citizens? Wow!
Hopefully, no one in command authority is this fanatical. There is no difference between the raghead dimwits and us if they are.

What number would be OK by you for this event to occur; clearly 40 is a low number, how about a 100? 1000? 5000? Tallying up the kills by the pigs of our armed forces and civvies throughout the years may reach that figure;or are you concerned with just one off incidents to satisfy that quota? Why even keep our weapons, lets dispose off them because the enemy is threatened by its presence and may "destroy our culture";clearly funding nukes and affiliated programs are a drain on our resources and their presence poisons the air of peace and prosperity we wish to project.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Feb 2019 22:04

Singha wrote:nukular exchange would just play into the hands of the dlagon.

to join the rank of P2 in 2050 we have to judiciously guard our future prospects.


Then be prepared for the current situation to get worse. Had India gone to war in 1999 during Kargil, we wouldn’t be in this situation today. The longer India waits, the more difficult it will be to neutralize Pakistan. No one is going to solve the problem. Not unkil or anyone in the international community.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby ricky_v » 25 Feb 2019 22:05

Arun.prabhu wrote: Their use case is to defend our nation's existence and survival. Barring those two use cases, there aren't any reasons or scenarios where we can use them.

What is the extent of our nations existence and survival?how do you define it?do you perchance have a document that details what exactly means nations existence and survival, and the usage of weapons of mass destruction to avert it? I get the gesture but it is too vague to render any meaningful usage. Depending on the person you ask, this pesky little detail can vary,no?

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Arun.prabhu » 25 Feb 2019 22:06

Rakesh wrote:Arun.prabhu: Chill brother. Please do not use bad language.

My apologies, Rakesh, but the tone of the last two posts I responded to was a bit too much. There are lines that a rational man does not contemplate crossing because afterwards there is no difference then between him and a rabid beast. If revenge is so important that we're all right with the deaths millions of our brothers and sisters when there are other options that we can pursue to punish Pakistan, then what are we? Thinking people or mindless, ravening beasts?

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Karthik S » 25 Feb 2019 22:10

Looks like 95% of paki imports happens through karachi harbor, being an import dependent and highly trade deficit country, taking out their main harbor will certainly cripple their economy and also take out their small flotilla navy. BTW, karachi is just 200 km from Gj border. We don't IN to redo Operation Trident.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:10

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 415007.cms

details of the optical telescope system cheen gave TSP to improve its missile testing

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Feb 2019 22:11

Rakesh wrote:Arun.prabhu: Chill brother. Please do not use bad language.


We have to discuss a nuclear strike as a valid military option. It is not the end of civilization or the end of the world. It must be painfully clear to the enemy that full preparation is underway and nothing less. A clear level headed discussion on the use of nuclear weapons will give pause to those who support terrorism.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Karthik S » 25 Feb 2019 22:12

OT. we really need to arm Vietnam and Taiwan. %*&#&#* cheen has really bottlefed pakis with equipment that may cause Indian lives.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Arun.prabhu » 25 Feb 2019 22:13

Like I said, a logician. False logic and reasoning though.

To answer your question, I'm happy that I don't have to define it. I don't trust myself with the button or being anywhere near it, you see.

ricky_v wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote: Their use case is to defend our nation's existence and survival. Barring those two use cases, there aren't any reasons or scenarios where we can use them.

What is the extent of our nations existence and survival?how do you define it?do you perchance have a document that details what exactly means nations existence and survival, and the usage of weapons of mass destruction to avert it? I get the gesture but it is too vague to render any meaningful usage. Depending on the person you ask, this pesky little detail can vary,no?

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2019 22:14

Arun.prabhu wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Arun.prabhu: Chill brother. Please do not use bad language.
My apologies, Rakesh, but the tone of the last two posts I responded to was a bit too much. There are lines that a rational man does not contemplate crossing because afterwards there is no difference then between him and a rabid beast. If revenge is so important that we're all right with the deaths millions of our brothers and sisters when there are other options that we can pursue to punish Pakistan, then what are we? Thinking people or mindless, ravening beasts?

It is all good. You and Mort are both valued posters. Keep the target in focus - Pakistan and not each other.

And I agree with you :) But remember the NFU policy. If Pakistan wants it take it to that level, we will have to retaliate in full force. I doubt they will, as the Pak elite are too much in love with their lifestyle to be that suicidal. But heck, if that is what they want...we will have to show them who is boss.

Deleting your post and let us start afresh.

Perhaps move on to another thread. Check out the Tejas Mk2 thread and see the video about Tejas SPORT.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2019 22:17

Everyone, please follow Ramana-ji's instructions below.

ramana wrote:Please no single liners, whines or emoticons. Summary ban for any if that.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:19

https://www.google.com/maps/@24.8323628 ... a=!3m1!1e3

4 subs in karachi, one of them in a floating drydock on bottom. very very few surface vessels in navy - only one ffg noticeable but 1000s of unkempt fishing boats all over the place.

gwader, pasni and ormara are so small and weak they make mangalore or udupi look like major ports. no subs or naval surface ships there in goog maps

the country's beggar status is aptly visible in the unkempt nature of krachi

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby nam » 25 Feb 2019 22:20

Singha wrote:the Paks can nowhere match any of these numbers, esp the long reach of the 250 sukhois.

they can wage the aerial version of nightly guerilla warfare since we dont have enough AWACS for 24 hr coverage and not enough cruise missiles to keep shutting their airbases every 12 hours with repeat strikes.


Paks will throw everything to prevent committing their F16 Block 52. AWACS allows them to throw their F6, JF17,Mirage at in coming bogeys and what ever survives will probably be engaged by F16s with their Aim120.

We need to carry out a high tempo attrition game( a WW2 style bombing raids into Germany) to clear off their first line of defence. A few Mig29k and Mirage(low sea flying) flying on the flanks from Arabian sea targeting the AWACS and in-depth F16s will be interesting.

Need to hit their expensive assets. No point downing FP6, which are getting retired.

Instead of dilly dialing with the Su-57, fiasco, if we have just ordered F35... even a sqd would be been such a over match.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:23


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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2019 22:23

Pak stuff is fine.
Of course. Only the Best for The Best of The Best of The Best.
Two points.
AFAIK, only these forces were ever "ready for war" in the past 2 centuries:
1. Hitler's Wehermacht and Luftwaffe. I don't think the Navy was quite ready.
2. Napoleon's Army To Russia.
3. Japan's Imperial Fauj.
4. Ayub Khan's "Dilli Chalo".
5. B4 that there was the British Expeditionary Force to Afghanistan.

Second Point: No one has taken on my pooch about IED-mobiles leading the charge to breach fixed defenses. This is a new feature of warfare. In the past the thinking was that Tactical Nuke, other NBC WMD would be used to clear an invasion zone, but that has the slight disadvantage of totally scorched earth plus radiation/ poison gas / Satan Bug killing one's own invasion force, like what happened to the Assyrians Descending Like the Wolf On The Fold.

The IED-Mobile locally has pretty devastating effects, but leaves little lasting damage to the terrain. Other than a steady hand and cool eye guiding the ATGM, individual heroism has no place in fighting this menace.

I think most conventional national defence forces are completely ill-equipped to deal with this. I am sure Pakis are innovative enough to come up with terrain-specific versions that are much worse threats.

What if 5 border posts were taken out simultaneously by a swarm of these, opening a clear path for an armored brigade to get in and spread out? The effect on rear-echelon/ Field HQ / supply lines could be catastrophic - if the main Strike Fauj is pumped in, and spread out, immediately thereafter.

Amidst all the grandiose saber-rattling it might be wise to think of such things as well.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 25 Feb 2019 22:28

Mort Walker wrote:
<snip>
............ with a combined yield of over 100KT.


^^^^^^^^
All of that, delivered westward, will produce fallout traveling eastward. Those are just the facts of life.

Exactly what are the prevailing winds like in this area?

Could this flow be disrupted by the thermal impulse, and if so, how would that spread the fallout? Could a technique be applied, using timing and yield, to 'wick' the fallout in a specific direction, say toward another country to the east of the TSP? (Hmmmmmmmm...........) Soil and surface types are all factors, as are the presence of groundwater, topography, height of blast, yield, blast effects 'bandwidth optimization', etc. etc.

None of this, is anything to be cavalier about; nor is it possible to properly model things like this in a text-based, public facing forum.

I question the utility and wisdom of this thread. A better thread would discuss how to calm the masses so that a general election can pass without some dimwit trying to force the timing of military action, not knowing nearly anything necessary to act with wisdom, while being serious about it.

I'm not referring to sheer revenge, but rather a more fundamental solution to the TSP.

TO WIT: The things contemplated in this thread, are weighty, and must not be considered lightly; and so considering these things deeply, in public, runs the inherent risk of informing the enemy. There is no two ways about that. What if someone writes something here, and it's read 'over there' and they're like, "Oh, geez, hadn't thought of that, better bury it or put a wire here or a tunnel there, etc." Net result: IA action is blunted because BRF tipped-off the enemy on a public-facing forum where (almost) everyone goes by a pseudonym.

Recognize: The timing of the Pulwama attack was calculated, coldly, with the intention of forcing the GoI and IA to rush, or be judged harshly by the electorate when what is needed is cold, calculated action, the timing of which must not be constrained or in any way dictated by political or other frivolous factors.

In so far as the Pulwama attack was done to show the Modi government in a bad light; that must be made to fail on principle alone -- by clearly making that case to the Indian public, the Indian voters. For reasons I don't care to expound upon here; the desired outcome contemplated by this thread is a "crumbling" such that paknukes can be siezed in toto. If this all can be pulled-off without the use of nuclear weapons by any party; this will abound to the great credit and advantage of India, and everyone who has stoked this fire for decades now will be publicly pleased and congratulatory, though secretly disappointed. Singha's comment that in order to join the P2 by 2050, a nuclear exchange must be avoided if at all possible (because of the physical reality of ground-burst munitions targeting hardened bunkers, the fallout is unacceptable -- not just politically, but biologically). A much more fruitful discussion thread would contemplate how to break-up the TSP, in much the same way that the UK and USA and China have contemplated the break-up of Desh -- then make it happen. [For reals, yo'. Breaking-up the TSP will be much, much easier than anyone here thinks, if only it's done with patience. Sindh and especially Balochistan are both ripe to go. Why not host some exiled Balochi parliamentarians? Why not grant them a budget? How about some training and equipping? Do it like the Khans would do it; set up a "School of the Freedom Fighters" and imbue them with political training on the importance of human rights and fresh batteries in the field.]

REMINDER: The AQ Khan network didn't work in isolation, and had much help and many sponsors along the way, including the US of A, China, Saudi Arabia and probably some other gulf kingdoms. The Dutch, the Germans and the Swiss, were all on the verge of arresting AQ Khan and putting an end to his photochar bijjnijj; but were prevented from doing so by Unkil Khan himself. That's the gist of this particular proliferation story. Judge their actions and reactions on Pulwama, in this light onleee.

IMO discussions of "Strategy and Tactics", here, is a mistake.

When Pulwama is avenged, everyone will know it. There is no doubt, this moment is coming, so everyone should just be patient.

JMT as a simple ABCD (Canadian, actually).
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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2019 22:28

The corollary to my pooch is that the IED-mobiles could come from the wrong side of the Yellow Sea to coordinate to within a minute with the forward edge of the Strike Fauj, and look like Indian Army/ BSF/CRPF vehicles. Surely if the Pakis inside CashMore are in a "Use it Or Lose it" situation, they will use these.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:33

interesting that karwar has a shiplift system in place to pull up a lot of ships ... its a P17 imo

https://www.google.com/maps/@14.7706231 ... a=!3m1!1e3

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:34

UlanBatori wrote:The corollary to my pooch is that the IED-mobiles could come from the wrong side of the Yellow Sea to coordinate to within a minute with the forward edge of the Strike Fauj, and look like Indian Army/ BSF/CRPF vehicles. Surely if the Pakis inside CashMore are in a "Use it Or Lose it" situation, they will use these.


thats is why 10,000 extra paramils are there under REFORGER uh REFORK(return of fauj to kashmeer)....to control the rear area routes and hiding places.


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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby nam » 25 Feb 2019 22:37

I expect PAF carrying out strikes on RR bases/camps to show "solidarity" with their "azaadi gang" in Kashmir. We need to make sure RR units are mobile and spread out in their grid.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2019 22:38

Singhaji: Hope they keep their uniforms and vehicles carefully under lock and key. It wouldn't be the first time...

Next point: The Syrian Army was getting massacred until 2 things happened:
1) the Big Eye thingy that either confused ATGMs or something.
2) The big welded gridwork like an Independence Day Float to keep the ATGM impact a meter away from the main tank skin.

US fauj also went to putting these grilles all around HUMVEES in Eyerak. The days of "Damn the torpedos! Full Steam Ahead!" are gone: the missiles are deadly accurate.

Next point: In Syria and Iraq, both sides had hundreds of tanks. But there were hardly any tank-to-tank battles like Khemkaran or Asal Uttar or Kursk. It was all asymmetric: Tanks vs. ATGMs, Tanks vs. Helicopters. Same can be expected here too.
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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:39

the sleek well fed stone throwers if they show their faces then will get pelted back with ak47 rounds not just allowed to "express their rage" and get away scot free.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2019 22:44

If war comes, the practice with stones will come in handy with grenades.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:45

syrians lost a lot of tanks in initial phase of the war, mainly because tanks quite vulnerable fighting alone in ruined urban areas without accompanying well schooled teams of infantry, drones and air cover. the syrian army was not well trained and lost many veterans to fighting and desertion to FSA/exile to europe. took them years to build handpicked units of greater effectiveness like the "tiger forces" that could undertake offensive ops while less capable units held the lines. iranian and afghan volunteers were hardly of a high caliber. some IRGC leaders were lost leading these callow units from the front like colonels having to lieutenants job as no chain of command existed.

wrt to iraq, they too suffered terrible losses, but then i suspect the PMU got in skilled iranian advisors and their TOW clones to take down svbieds in open terrain. but it was carnage in mosul, albeit PMU was banned from going in and only US certified "golden division" was allowed in. the place is still a ruin.

car bomb attacks in mosul


Karthik S
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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Karthik S » 25 Feb 2019 22:50

What will IA be doing driving tanks in such urban areas of pak?

Singha
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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2019 22:51

sometimes there may not option to bypass densely built up areas. esp in hilly areas, villages are often the road hubs and markets.

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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Feb 2019 22:52

Ravi,

A detonation less than 10KT with the intention of a blast radius of 1KM radius will significantly limit fallout. However, the shockwave may go out to 5KM and prompt lethal ionizing radiation another several KM. At higher altitudes the blast radius will be smaller, but provide sufficient fast neutrons and gamma rays for military objectives. Again these are design choices. Regrettably sufficient testing wasn’t done in 1998 or following years.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 25 Feb 2019 22:54, edited 1 time in total.

nam
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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby nam » 25 Feb 2019 22:53

Thinking about it PAF seems to have well thought our strategy. Given the size of their country and the number of jets they have, they can provide quite a dense per capita jet coverage. With the AWACS coverage, they can vector well placed air defense jets towards incoming bogey.

The idea would be to not to give a quick victory and attrition warfare. Knocking off a Su30 by F6/Mirage/F16 Block 15 would give the braging required to keep the TFTA halo among their awaam.

Was reading a while back how Serbian Mig29 radar would become useless due to Khan ECM as soon as they lift off! One pilot had lost his radar and even rwr, still managed to make it back, even surviving a BVR shot!

nam
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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby nam » 25 Feb 2019 22:58

This is where Khan is so good at "sweeping the sky". Even a LCA with radar or AESA with multi-targeting BVR would have so useful in clearing the sky of F6 and Mirages.

PAF would try to get in to merge, as it will not want to waste it's BVR stock in to lucky shots. With merge, they have a chance of downing one of our big jets(Su30/Mirage/Mig29) for TFTA bragging.

They have been training for decades on dodge BVR tactics.

nam
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Re: Upcoming India-Pakistan War - Force Balances, Strategy, Tactics, etc.

Postby nam » 25 Feb 2019 23:00

So my opinion, depending on how fast we knock off their forward radar(or AWACS if possible) and clear off their F6 and Mirage, we will be getting in to the core of PAF, which will really hurt.


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