Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

AshishAcharya
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby AshishAcharya » 02 Mar 2019 20:56

Some on Twitter are reporting a jihadi attack on 44 RR had been repelled. Is it true?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 20:56

Mort Walker wrote:
Raveen wrote:No more diwali @ loc?
What about snakes?


No. It is effectively over. Samjhauta Express resumes tomorrow on Sunday March 3rd.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/samjhauta-express-services-restored-train-to-run-from-india-on-sunday-railways/articleshow/68231815.cms


AFAIK it was only cancelled due to lack of demand over the past week

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 20:56

AshishAcharya wrote:Some on Twitter are reporting a jihadi attack on 44 RR had been repealed. Is it true?


Repelled

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Mar 2019 20:57

anishns wrote:Quick question to the learned gents here.

Is it not possible to locate F16 wreckage or any other downed paki jet using satellite?


It is and probably was. It won't be shared with the public though and Pakis probably cleaned up the wreckage within a day.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 02 Mar 2019 20:59

Mort Walker wrote:
pankajs wrote:Looks like Misinformation ... 2 obvious fakery.

Every one, their father and their fathers father agrees that IAF CROSSED the LOC.

I hate these so called *sources* .. all of them faking. BUT why?

IF you don't know keep quite or is the paper deliberately *manufacturing* sources to crate fake points that can easily be rebutted and the whole strike credibility destroyed? This is very frustrating. Lob a full toss that can be hit for six and seal the match on that one hit.


I think you've missed the important point. The use of Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) to confirm the strike. RISAT-2 was launched in 2009 by a PSLV and the operator is the IAF. It was in direct response to the Mumbai attack in Nov. 2008. Data from the RISAT-2 will never be released to the public, but that's all we need to know.

I have not missed the point. If what yu've stated was the only point I would let is be.

Instead it is CONFIRMED wrong on a very important and basic point. That is all it takes to destroy the credibility of the source and any other assertions by that source cannot be trusted. ANYONE who was involved with this mission would not have gotten that fact wrong at least.
Last edited by pankajs on 02 Mar 2019 21:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Mar 2019 21:00

khan wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
No. It is effectively over. Samjhauta Express resumes tomorrow on Sunday March 3rd.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/samjhauta-express-services-restored-train-to-run-from-india-on-sunday-railways/articleshow/68231815.cms

It doesn’t necessarily have to be over. Looks like the Bakis cancelled it and the Bakis took the initiative in restoring service.

Just like the return of the wing commander, this could be another attempt to force peace.

I hope Prme Minister Modi sticks to his guns and makes it clear that this isn’t enough. Indian military objectives have not been met.


Well, then it should not cross over on the Indian side. Stuff like this needs to end. Blow hot and blow cold gets you no respect.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Ganesh_S » 02 Mar 2019 21:00

pankajs wrote:^^

War is not a game. People dies and on BOTH sides. The people who have the responsibility have to take all things into consideration at each step when escalating.


Indeed, war is not a game. Its a calculated move to inflict greater damage on the opponent which is the bottom line.
There is a modus operandi for symmetric warfare but none for the asymmetric one...so what to do?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 02 Mar 2019 21:02

We let the best people in the scenario decide.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Ganesh_S » 02 Mar 2019 21:03

If you miss the bottom line fearing casualties then you end up loosing the war.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Mar 2019 21:06

pankajs wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
I think you've missed the important point. The use of Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) to confirm the strike. RISAT-2 was launched in 2009 by a PSLV and the operator is the IAF. It was in direct response to the Mumbai attack in Nov. 2008. Data from the RISAT-2 will never be released to the public, but that's all we need to know.

I have not missed the point. If what yu've stated was the only point I would let is be.

Instead it is CONFIRMED wrong on a very important and basic point. That is all it takes to destroy the credibility of the source and any other assertions by that source cannot be trusted. ANYONE who was involved with this mission would not have gotten that fact wrong at least.


Sometimes there are nuggets of truth in some articles and this is one case. SAR implemented on RISAT-2 did find YSR helicopter wreckage in AP jungles very quickly, this means it has the resolution. There is reason to conclude it was used to identify the damage to the structure(s) in Balakot post mission.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 02 Mar 2019 21:11

Mort Walker wrote:
khan wrote:It doesn’t necessarily have to be over. Looks like the Bakis cancelled it and the Bakis took the initiative in restoring service.

Just like the return of the wing commander, this could be another attempt to force peace.

I hope Prme Minister Modi sticks to his guns and makes it clear that this isn’t enough. Indian military objectives have not been met.


Well, then it should not cross over on the Indian side. Stuff like this needs to end. Blow hot and blow cold gets you no respect.

Why should the train be cancelled during normal peacetime?

After all bombing Pakistan at will, shelling Pakistan at will and I am sure other things that are in store for them are normal peacetime activities.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 02 Mar 2019 21:12

Ganesh_S wrote:If you miss the bottom line fearing casualties then you end up loosing the war.

That is why I stated earlier that war is not a game. We can make all such logical assertions from our drawing rooms but only who are in the middle and will bear the direct impact will evaluate the costs and decide. That is the reason I said leave it to them.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 02 Mar 2019 21:14

Mort Walker wrote:
pankajs wrote:I have not missed the point. If what yu've stated was the only point I would let is be.

Instead it is CONFIRMED wrong on a very important and basic point. That is all it takes to destroy the credibility of the source and any other assertions by that source cannot be trusted. ANYONE who was involved with this mission would not have gotten that fact wrong at least.


Sometimes there are nuggets of truth in some articles and this is one case. SAR implemented on RISAT-2 did find YSR helicopter wreckage in AP jungles very quickly, this means it has the resolution. There is reason to conclude it was used to identify the damage to the structure(s) in Balakot post mission.

Some of the nuggests may be true but when one gets the basics wrong that is all it takes to destroy the credibility of the source.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby rgosain » 02 Mar 2019 21:18

Mort Walker wrote:
anishns wrote:Quick question to the learned gents here.

Is it not possible to locate F16 wreckage or any other downed paki jet using satellite?


It is and probably was. It won't be shared with the public though and Pakis probably cleaned up the wreckage within a day.

Was there a separate debris field from where the aim-120 bits were located.
Seems as if PAF were launching BVRs at civilian air traffic in Indian airspace hence the response by the wingco.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Mar 2019 21:24

rgosain wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
It is and probably was. It won't be shared with the public though and Pakis probably cleaned up the wreckage within a day.

Was there a separate debris field from where the aim-120 bits were located.
Seems as if PAF were launching BVRs at civilian air traffic in Indian airspace hence the response by the wingco.


Someone would have to have birds over the area after it happened at about 10AM IST last Wednesday.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 02 Mar 2019 21:26

So it is confirmed that the Pakistani F-16 pilot who landed alive was beaten to death (!! :eek: ) by civilians that met up with him.

I dont think it can be a case of mistaken identity- the pilot suit usually carries a patch of the PAkistan flag on the left shoulder. It must have been deliberate- which is amazing- never heard anything like this. The PoK Kashmiris must love their PAF and PA protectors. Which Pakistani pilot will now feel safe between the RAdcliffe line and LOC. If they get shot down, they are better off crashing with the plane.

Their border just got a bit smaller and further west from the LoC.
Last edited by SriKumar on 02 Mar 2019 21:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Jarita » 02 Mar 2019 21:28

Sachin wrote:
chetak wrote:In this particular case, all six will be accorded a military funeral with full honors.

Thanks for all the details. All I meant to say is that, a perception should not be allowed to settle in that other martyrs were ignored and Wg.Cdr Abhinandan only get a good recognition.
Sanju wrote:In the josh of the returning WingCo, many may have missed it.

Yes. That was my concern as well. For a change I actually watched some news program on TV yesterday (late in the evening). But did not find any news on the military honours for the six men.

Aditya_V wrote:I dont like women and children dying, but the way the POK civilians behaved in trying to capture Abhinandan was terrible, many behaved pathetically.

PoK civilians actually bashed up the PAF F-16 pilot who bailed out. Seems to be pretty rustic people who bash up any one who they don't like.


Never underestimate the Civilians in some parts of the world. When the Soviet pilots would crash land in Af-pak, the women would do the shirting while the local men would do you know what. Even today, the Soviets shiver at that experience. I am surprised that you are surprised.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 02 Mar 2019 21:30

The Pulwama thread is very educative when read in hindsight. I had made a few drab remarks then:

War is unpredictable, but public humiliation of Paki military will have very pleasing domino effects.

A week earlier if someone had said that IAF should bomb a few terrorist camps and then sit back and repel counter attacks, that prescription would have been dismissed as being wimpy. Less than a bum tickle if I may borrow a phrase.

Yet this is all it took to ruin the reputation of Pakistan’s MOST revered institution - PAF. Understand this - Pakis fear their Army, but they worship PAF because of the mythology built up around it. All it took to destroy decades of carefully nurtured fantasy was one lion hearted pilot flying a lovingly maintained museum piece.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby habal » 02 Mar 2019 21:31

It is the first time TSPA and TSPAF get genuine feedback from their population on what they really feel about them.

rgosain, the aim120c casing landed in one of our military compounds.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby rgosain » 02 Mar 2019 21:36

There is actually no firm evidence that two other pilots came down. I am not sure that the iaf will provide the telemetry and radar data from the awacs, for obvious reasons of an F16 shootdown - would give too much away

One has to be careful of being seduced into believing this by certain sources who would then pull the rug from under you by revealing a fully alive pilot

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 21:42

rgosain wrote:There is actually no firm evidence that two other pilots came down. I am not sure that the iaf will provide the telemetry and radar data from the awacs, for obvious reasons of an F16 shootdown - would give too much away

One has to be careful of being seduced into believing this by certain sources who would then pull the rug from under you by revealing a fully alive pilot


There's a picture of 3 parachutes out there - Shiv Aroor or Jha posted it on twitter

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 21:42

habal wrote:It is the first time TSPA and TSPAF get genuine feedback from their population on what they really feel about them.

rgosain, the aim120c casing landed in one of our military compounds.


Correction, the casing wasn't inside a military compound, just inside our territory

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 02 Mar 2019 21:43

Somewhere in a parallel universe, India & Australia are playing cricket in Hyderabad while Pakistan is shut down.

Just to drive home the point, the Wing Commander and his family should be given VIP tickets to the next game.

https://twitter.com/ani/status/1101873777980276738?s=21

#INDvsAUS: India win the first ODI against Australia by 6 wickets in Hyderabad; take 1-0 lead in 5-match series

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 02 Mar 2019 21:44

Bart S wrote:
komal wrote:
I was around back in 1971. NYT/WaPo/CBS all declared the war a tactical win for India but a actually a huge strategic loss -- that Pakistan was a the big winner.

Points that are I still remember

1) Bhutto was outstanding at the UN and ran circles around Sardar Swaran Singh

2) India would become a Soviet colony and that Russians would set up a large naval base at Vizag

3) Shorn of the SDRE in Bangaldesh the Martial Race of West Pakistan would become an economic and military powerhouse while India stagnated economically and militarily

4) The Bangladesh model would also incite the southern states of TamilNadu and Kerala to seek independence

Mrs. Gandhi apparently corresponded on a regular basis with NYT columnist William Safire. He wrote that, when he was in New Delhi, she asked him something like "is there nothing that we can do to please you?"

Also, she cared little about winning the propaganda battle in the US press. The Pak Ambassador Agha Hilaly would routinely go on radio and TV shows in Washington DC and compare India to Nazi Germany. Mrs. G didn't even bother having anyone in an official capacity respond.


Komal Sir, this is absolute gold and puts in perspective some of the rona-dhona (including by me) about the lack of media/perception management by our side. India the civilization will march on relentlessly regardless of what is trending on twitter.

Thanks for sharing and it would be lovely if you could share more such perspectives from decades past.


If someone is asleep they can be awakened, those pretending can't be.

Anglo decided to destroy Iraq inspire of no weapons of mass destruction, then they admitted they LIED about it openly.
Anglo decided Pakistan can openly threaten nuclear attack on Bharat and Anglo don't care about nuclear fallout.

Anglo decided to give VISA to MILITARY DICTATOR MUSHARRAF, but DECIDED TO DENY VISA TO DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED CM MODI.

Don't try to convince NYT, Democrats, Guardian, BBC, these belong to Anglo They have marked Bharat as enemy.... no matter what; they will only and only spew venom against us.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 02 Mar 2019 21:44

Vivasvat wrote:

Link has been removed

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Iyersan » 02 Mar 2019 21:45

Mort Walker wrote:
Raveen wrote:No more diwali @ loc?
What about snakes?


No. It is effectively over. Samjhauta Express resumes tomorrow on Sunday March 3rd.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/samjhauta-express-services-restored-train-to-run-from-india-on-sunday-railways/articleshow/68231815.cms

The bakis shut down samjhauta express not india. This question was put forth to piyush goyal he refuted sayong india didnot shut it down..in addition train service from jodhpur to karachi was all along . I beleive we will attack soon... why? Simplr the 3 services clearly stated that pak attempted an attack on military installation...we are allowing the chicken to marinate before deep frying it

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 02 Mar 2019 21:47

i think the weather in punjab, kashmir has a role in cooling of tensions..its raining snowing.. i wanna see what happens on Monday. Right now no air activity ( fighters) i mean. there are some diplomatic moves with KSa and ruskie FM coming over?? we are not deployed as well...even if we dont start a fight..the pressure should not be released.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby parshuram » 02 Mar 2019 21:47

To Gurus , In the Dog Fight day after Operation Balkot Where F-16 was shot down . IAF Statement said that MKI’s were scrambled . One question that is bothering me . Why did nt MKI ‘s fired R-77’s ? I am assuming that F-16’s were well with in range {BVR}

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby rgosain » 02 Mar 2019 21:54

parshuram wrote:To Gurus , In the Dog Fight day after Operation Balkot Where F-16 was shot down . IAF Statement said that MKI’s were scrambled . One question that is bothering me . Why did nt MKI ‘s fired R-77’s ? I am assuming that F-16’s were well with in range {BVR}


Rules of engagement: Fear of the longer range missile mixing with civilian traffic.. By firing the Aim 120s , the PAF were trying to close down civilian traffic Ravi has written on this.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 02 Mar 2019 21:54

this is a v difficult q as we dont know the relative positions of the various a/c at that point of time... maybe the Mig was in best position to take on the intruders...then there is question of ROE and how a particular pilot follows that in heat of the moment. Since no war is declared will the enemy plane fall in own or en territory in case of a splash !! the thing to remember that it was a v shallow ingress and the F 16's were basically rushing back to their side. ( almost reminded me of kabadi...did kabadi kabadi and ran back ).

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Mar 2019 21:55

SriKumar wrote:So it is confirmed that the Pakistani F-16 pilot who landed alive was beaten to death (!! :eek: ) by civilians that met up with him.

I dont think it can be a case of mistaken identity- the pilot suit usually carries a patch of the PAkistan flag on the left shoulder. It must have been deliberate- which is amazing- never heard anything like this. The PoK Kashmiris must love their PAF and PA protectors. Which Pakistani pilot will now feel safe between the RAdcliffe line and LOC. If they get shot down, they are better off crashing with the plane.

Their border just got a bit smaller and further west from the LoC.

i strongly doubt that theory. Aam adbuls are quite apt in identifying their own. Punjabi Kalma physical checks are common tests. I strongly suspect his head was taken to play football by some jernail's for abduls

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 02 Mar 2019 21:57

pankajs wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:

Looks like Misinformation ... 2 obvious fakery.

Every one, their father and their fathers father agrees that IAF CROSSED the LOC.

I hate these so called *sources* .. all of them faking. BUT why?

IF you don't know keep quite or is the paper deliberately *manufacturing* sources to crate fake points that can easily be rebutted and the whole strike credibility destroyed? This is very frustrating. Lob a full toss that can be hit for six and seal the match on that one hit.

Stop watching and reading fake news channels. If enough people do it, automatically they will shut down.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Mar 2019 21:57

Mort Walker wrote:
Raveen wrote:No more diwali @ loc?
What about snakes?


No. It is effectively over. Samjhauta Express resumes tomorrow on Sunday March 3rd.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/samjhauta-express-services-restored-train-to-run-from-india-on-sunday-railways/articleshow/68231815.cms


The whole point is that India didn't suspend anything prior to striking Balakot; i.e., seeming normalcy will not keep India from retaliating for terrorist attacks. Pakistan knows from its own behavior whether it is safe to re-open its air space, resume trains and LoC trade, etc.

I think if India is confident in its own intelligence that sufficient damage has been inflicted it will not act again soon, so all these stories that the Indian bombing failed are really not in the cause of peace, they're really incitement for more strikes -- assuming that India pays any attention to them. The West is busy trying to help save Pakistani "face", as it always does.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby John » 02 Mar 2019 21:57

Katare wrote:
Vivasvat wrote:

Link has been removed

Works for me, maybe region locked.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Mar 2019 21:58

JayS wrote:Stop watching and reading fake news channels. If enough people do it, automatically they will shut down.


That was the Indian Express. Dunno if you can get enough people to stop reading it to put it out of business.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 02 Mar 2019 21:59

SriKumar wrote:So it is confirmed that the Pakistani F-16 pilot who landed alive was beaten to death (!! :eek: ) by civilians that met up with him.

I dont think it can be a case of mistaken identity- the pilot suit usually carries a patch of the PAkistan flag on the left shoulder. It must have been deliberate- which is amazing- never heard anything like this. The PoK Kashmiris must love their PAF and PA protectors. Which Pakistani pilot will now feel safe between the RAdcliffe line and LOC. If they get shot down, they are better off crashing with the plane.

Their border just got a bit smaller and further west from the LoC.


Good point to troll some pakis.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby JayS » 02 Mar 2019 22:00

A_Gupta wrote:
JayS wrote:Stop watching and reading fake news channels. If enough people do it, automatically they will shut down.


That was the Indian Express. Dunno if you can get enough people to stop reading it to put it out of business.


At least you can do it and have a peaceful life no??

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Schmidt » 02 Mar 2019 22:06

NDTV Srinivasan Jain with a panel including Ajai Shukla and C Unfair dissing the IAF , that they missed the targets at Balakote and caused no damage
C Unfair laughs derisively at the gentleman representing the air force

I don't understand the depravity of NDTV and Ajai Shukla , at taking pleasure in running down their own country

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 02 Mar 2019 22:15

Pavlovian response to Modi ... anything that he is or can be associated with they will try to discredit it.
Last edited by pankajs on 02 Mar 2019 22:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby abhik » 02 Mar 2019 22:15

Looks like there is going to be no overt response to the Paki air raid, which IMO is a neutral, if not positive outcome for the PAF. Of course you may disagree, but the only argument that can be made is that we won the pisscological war which has its limits - You can always wash your browned shalwar, tomorrow is another day onlee.


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