Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 05 Mar 2019 21:21

Rakesh wrote:
DrRatnadip wrote:can GE be postponed for say six months..??
That my dear Doctor, is a recipe for disaster. Opposition parties will be up in arms claiming that Modi has declared a dictatorship. The political capital that Modi has from 2014 to date will evaporate like a fart in the wind. The BJP will lose spectacularly and then you will have RaGa sitting in the PM’s chair after the delayed GE are done.

Just continue with the GE as planned. No need to postpone anything. The Prime Minister will win a second term.

Thank you for clarification sir..

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 21:22

manjgu wrote:Tapan... pl do educate me on whats strategy ? the two babus came...read a statement and ran away. Why did they call all the reporters for? if they didnt want to take any questions. Even their draft was ill prepared. Such a major event has happened and there is no proper briefing... senior ministers/ uniformed people should have taken the brieifing with well drafted notes and taken a few questions. 2 unknown babus came..read something and vanished... It looked like shoot and scoot. That was the time to rub in the casualties etc...

IMO the idea was to create menace and uncertainty, if anyone answers questions, it opens up the possibility for someone to inadvertently say the wrong thing & Telegraph Indian intentions or limitations.

GOI’s less-is-more media strategy was very effective at creating menace.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 05 Mar 2019 21:37

https://theprint.in/defence/first-satel ... on/201639/

First satellite images show likely damage to Jaish Balakot camp but no massive destruction

The images accessed by ThePrint show four dark spots on roof, missing tents and burnt earth but walls and buildings intact.

Isn't what SPICE bombs do?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Mar 2019 21:40

On Flight Radar 24, why AI 126D, CHicago Delhi heading to Karachi?

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 05 Mar 2019 21:45

Khan..sorry...menace and uncertainty..!!!. the babus looked in a tearing hurry to exit the room. a calm calculated response from COAS, VK SIngh would have let gravitas to the situation rather than 2 unknown babus. we will do it again... ghus ke maarenge type ... anyway . going in Pakistan was no small thing... it was a earth shattering event.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 05 Mar 2019 21:47

Rudradev wrote:PAF failed to defend Baki sovirginity, and failed even more miserably in its attempt to retaliate.
....
What do you think they will do?

I would increase sec cover and sec protocols for the Shehzada and fly

-M

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Mar 2019 21:48

Per pokhran test video walls and roof can remain standing
More like a gbu12 bunker buster designed for hard concrete targets most of that one ton weight could be hard casing rather than explosives

I guess thats what he had for a 100km glide weapon so no
Much options despite these being soft targets

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Mar 2019 21:52

vijayk wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/first-satel ... on/201639/

First satellite images show likely damage to Jaish Balakot camp but no massive destruction

The images accessed by ThePrint show four dark spots on roof, missing tents and burnt earth but walls and buildings intact.
Isn't what SPICE bombs do?

Wonder why none of these folks publish the coordinates of what they're looking at.

Shaktimaan · Post by **Shaktimaan** » 05 Mar 2019 21:54

Since Balakot was essentially a Pak military asset, those goat sheds may be in fact made of reinforced cement concrete or hardened in some other way.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 05 Mar 2019 21:54

Apart from 'ghar mein khuske..' Modi also said 'chun chun ke maaroonga'' IIRC. I immediately started imagining black ops team unleashed to liquidate specific targets deep in the hinterlands of TSP.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 05 Mar 2019 21:55

Any further information about the Chakoti and Muzzafarabad attacks?

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 05 Mar 2019 21:57

vijayk wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/first-satel ... on/201639/

First satellite images show likely damage to Jaish Balakot camp but no massive destruction

The images accessed by ThePrint show four dark spots on roof, missing tents and burnt earth but walls and buildings intact.
Isn't what SPICE bombs do?

https://cdn-live.theprint.in/wp-content ... 96x392.jpg

From the article

Four black spots
The first satellite image indicates that most structures on Jabba Top are still standing and are intact. But there are four dark spots visible on the main building, which possibly indicates touching up of paint over a newly placed CGI sheet.

The IAF is reported to have used 1,000 kg Israeli Spice-2000 precision-guided bombs to hit the targets. This bomb can blow such a tin-roofed building to smithereens.

The four dark spots indicate that the IAF may have used the smaller Spice-250 bombs that may have entered the structure through the four spots and caused damage after exploding inside.

The Spice-250 with blast fragmentation warheads is considered lethal against personnel and soft skinned targets such as tents and shacks being used to house the Jaish terrorists.

The image, however, does not show any damage to any of the other buildings along the entire ridge. Some Western experts said that even “a low-level pass at high speed with a stick of dumb bombs would have erased that hilltop with far less effort”.

The image also indicates that India may have used ‘fuel air explosive’ warheads which can be fitted with the kits of the Spice bombs.

The bombs could very well be Spice-250 or even SAAW

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:01

Aditya_V wrote:On Flight Radar 24, why AI 126D, CHicago Delhi heading to Karachi?

Course correction showing now over Porbandar...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Mar 2019 22:03

Very likely imo

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:04

manjgu wrote:Khan..sorry...menace and uncertainty..!!!. the babus looked in a tearing hurry to exit the room. a calm calculated response from COAS, VK SIngh would have let gravitas to the situation rather than 2 unknown babus. we will do it again... ghus ke maarenge type ... anyway . going in Pakistan was no small thing... it was a earth shattering event.

Balakot was not a military strike - it was a strike against “non-military” targets, so GOI can’t have Military people give briefings. Note that after the Bakis failed attack against military targets, the military from all the 3 services did their thing. Yesterday Air Force Chief grave a briefing to keep the temperature warm.

It is just as important to play the diplomatic game so that external pressure doesn’t force a de-escalation, this is all part of the diplomatic game and it is being played masterfully.

Satisfying forum Jingos & TV Jingos is rightfully at the bottom of GOI’s priority list.

If the Bakis hand over JEM Chief or get hit with more strikes, that raw power will speak volumes louder than any pictures or briefings.

So relax and let this play out, there is clearly a bigger plan going on.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:05

release of the naval officer being held on spying charges? that could be an additional demand

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 05 Mar 2019 22:12

manjgu wrote:Tapan... pl do educate me on whats strategy ? the two babus came...read a statement and ran away. Why did they call all the reporters for? if they didnt want to take any questions. Even their draft was ill prepared. Such a major event has happened and there is no proper briefing... senior ministers/ uniformed people should have taken the brieifing with well drafted notes and taken a few questions. 2 unknown babus came..read something and vanished... It looked like shoot and scoot. That was the time to rub in the casualties etc...

Keeping any uniforms at bay was to postulate that this was nothing to do with Pakistan and merely 'pre-emptive defence' against what is claimed as non-state actors. They had it all planned out and expected PAF to retaliate, hence it put Pak on the backfoot and they stood isolated by their 'friends'.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 22:12

manjgu wrote:Tapan... pl do educate me on whats strategy ? the two babus came...read a statement and ran away. Why did they call all the reporters for? if they didnt want to take any questions. Even their draft was ill prepared. Such a major event has happened and there is no proper briefing... senior ministers/ uniformed people should have taken the brieifing with well drafted notes and taken a few questions. 2 unknown babus came..read something and vanished... It looked like shoot and scoot. That was the time to rub in the casualties etc...

Trust your babus.. You are thinking about this as an 'event', not as a process or an operation that is still ON. Literally, every statement, from IAF chief Dhanoa, to the latest statement from the Navy, has been that '..operation is still ON'.

During the 65 and the 71 war, Pak Radio used to broadcast bulletins about Amritsar being in Pakistan control, the airfields at Jodhpur being completely destroyed and on and on. When the final shot was fired, the outcome was clear. They cant achieve much, so tend to overcompensate by made communications about their 'great victories'. Indian authorities are doing well by not getting into a verbal slanging match, and communicating intent by actions. Have you seen a single 'demand' being placed on Pakistan this time? Or a single instance of 'giving evidence to the international media'?

Trust your government. After a very long time, they are doing the right thing.

nam · Post by **nam** » 05 Mar 2019 22:14

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Any further information about the Chakoti and Muzzafarabad attacks?

Either press going over board or complete blanket on what was hit.

Even there has been no leaks in the media.

I have a feeling if HM targets were hit, we would not like to publize them.

tapan · Post by **tapan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:25

The message was not for journalist's, or for the common people, it was for those in centers of power playing geo politics. Several pay grades above you or me. Not everything is said. It was also not meant for 2 bit isi controlled politicians in this country's so called opposition. Either you trust NAMO or you don't. He gave the military and intelligence services an open hand, and they delivered. I am new to this forum, but I can see clearly the repurcuions sitstan is going through.

If you cannot then elevate your level of thinking, you are looking at it too closely from a ground level. Take into consideration what is going on in the neighbourhood.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 05 Mar 2019 22:26

non military targets? but were hit my military planes not Indigo A320...anyway let it pass.

tapan · Post by **tapan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:27

khan wrote:
manjgu wrote:Tapan... pl do educate me on whats strategy ? the two babus came...read a statement and ran away. Why did they call all the reporters for? if they didnt want to take any questions. Even their draft was ill prepared. Such a major event has happened and there is no proper briefing... senior ministers/ uniformed people should have taken the brieifing with well drafted notes and taken a few questions. 2 unknown babus came..read something and vanished... It looked like shoot and scoot. That was the time to rub in the casualties etc...
IMO the idea was to create menace and uncertainty, if anyone answers questions, it opens up the possibility for someone to inadvertently say the wrong thing & Telegraph Indian intentions or limitations.

GOI’s less-is-more media strategy was very effective at creating menace.

Absolutely. Less is more.

tapan · Post by **tapan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:28

vijayk wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/first-satel ... on/201639/

First satellite images show likely damage to Jaish Balakot camp but no massive destruction

The images accessed by ThePrint show four dark spots on roof, missing tents and burnt earth but walls and buildings intact.
Isn't what SPICE bombs do?

Yes. Times now was covering it really well.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 05 Mar 2019 22:34

Singha wrote:MW toba is here

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Toba+ ... 73.3038086

Toba in punjabi means low land or a small natural pond and is usually a place where dead bodies are buried.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:38

What are we waiting for?

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 22:53

manjgu wrote:non military targets? but were hit my military planes not Indigo A320...anyway let it pass.

It is a convenient diplomatic fiction. It makes India looks like a responsible applicator of power, acting purely in self-defense - instead of the actual situation which is Prime Minister Modi kicking the Bakis around like dogs

.

As someone said earlier, this is for the consumption of UNSC members so they don’t do something stupid - like sanction India for being too aggressive.

Iyersan wrote:What are we waiting for?

My guess is, giving Bakis a week or two to show progress on “irreversibly” dismantling their terror infrastructure - which they probably will not do. I am sure they will be told by people they listen to that “banning” and rounding up the usual suspects has been done before, has by definition been “reversed” and is not “irreversible”.

An “irreversible” step will be handing over JEM Chief to India or to the US or to kill him. Obviously, they will not do this, so after a few more dossiers, the dog will be kicked again.

So, the Bakis are caught in between a rock and a hard place, do something “irreversible” or get kicked again.

John · Post by **John** » 05 Mar 2019 22:58

During 2nd Iraq conflict I remember US fired about a dozen cruise missiles on one of Saddam’s palace with little effect finally sent some F-16s with bunker buster/LGB to level the palace. Even then as NBC news coverage was walking around and doing live broadcast the structure was damaged but still standing it was interesting to see the areas cruise missile had hit compared with were bombs were dropped.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 05 Mar 2019 23:36

John wrote:During 2nd Iraq conflict I remember US fired about a dozen cruise missiles on one of Saddam’s palace with little effect finally sent some F-16s with bunker buster/LGB to level the palace. Even then as NBC news coverage was walking around and doing live broadcast the structure was damaged but still standing it was interesting to see the areas cruise missile had hit compared with were bombs were dropped.

Tomahawk!= brahmos. + brahmos does have a pretty versatile payload .

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 05 Mar 2019 23:38

Iyersan wrote:What are we waiting for?

What do you want to do?

AshishA · Post by **AshishA** » 05 Mar 2019 23:56

I think we must wait patiently and trust the govt. If they have planned something, they will do it. It will come at the time and place of their choosing. Moreover, I am convinced of Narendra Modi's intent on finishing Pakistan for good. In the meanwhile, what we can do is troll pakis to satisfy the jingo within us and maybe scare them off by using words like RAW, submarine, bombs, Karachi, planes etc etc

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Mar 2019 23:58

Singha wrote:US also has a proposal to recruit the taliban into the local afghan police/army "absorb misguided youth into the mainstream"

two sides of the durand line are merging, with both sets of jihadis poised to don the uniform.

Remember the Mehran base attack in Pakiland? Conducted by Faithfools in the Pakistani Navy upset that the Navy was not as pure as they are?

Wonder what could go wrong if they absorb JeM/LeT into mainstream army.

williams · Post by **williams** » 06 Mar 2019 00:14

Not sure if this is posted before HM says NTRO has calculated 300 cell phone signals active in that area before the air strike.

yea right, it is a non-military target.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 06 Mar 2019 00:16

Watch it and comment. In war games , paki NASR comes out dud. Pakis can not use it against Cold start.

I think gurus here can better understand and comment.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 01:06

Dilbu wrote:Apart from 'ghar mein khuske..' Modi also said 'chun chun ke maaroonga'' IIRC. I immediately started imagining black ops team unleashed to liquidate specific targets deep in the hinterlands of TSP.

Exactly whats wrong with most of the posts here on SM from experts, retired military folks:

We want Modi to do what we want to do and criticize for not having done that.
how about running in elections and get to power and do what you want to do?

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 06 Mar 2019 01:10

https://www.rediff.com/news/interview/d ... 190305.htm

'Don't ask pilots to fly MiG-21s, it's a threat to their lives'

Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman ejected in time from his MiG-21 Bison aircraft on February 27 after it was hit by Pakistani ground fire.

But before doing so, the fighter pilot shot down a Pakistani F-16 with his MiG-21 Bison, a 56-year-old aircraft.

Now, a public interest litigation has been filed with the Mumbai high court by advocate Shehzad Naqvi on behalf of an NGO, seeking directions to the Government of India to phase out the MiG-21s.

The NGO that filed the petition wishes to be anonymous and Naqvi spoke on its behalf.

Fantastic, now anonymous NGOs are getting into the fight.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 06 Mar 2019 01:10

Agree with you Ramanaji. I am only admitting my problem with wishful imagination. Bliss to note that I do not rant about Modi not going ahead and fulfilling my dreams.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 01:13

manjgu wrote:non military targets? but were hit my military planes not Indigo A320...anyway let it pass.

What is your real problem?
You don't trust the IAF when they say they hit the terrorists aka non-military?
You think its only your military?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2019 01:14

Dilbu wrote:Agree with you Ramanaji. I am only admitting my problem with wishful imagination. Bliss to note that I do not rant about Modi not going ahead and fulfilling my dreams.

I know. I have to use some thing to make a point and your was convenient.
And you know me since long time.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 06 Mar 2019 01:15

Ardeshir wrote:https://www.rediff.com/news/interview/d ... 190305.htm
'Don't ask pilots to fly MiG-21s, it's a threat to their lives'

Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman ejected in time from his MiG-21 Bison aircraft on February 27 after it was hit by Pakistani ground fire.

But before doing so, the fighter pilot shot down a Pakistani F-16 with his MiG-21 Bison, a 56-year-old aircraft.

Now, a public interest litigation has been filed with the Mumbai high court by advocate Shehzad Naqvi on behalf of an NGO, seeking directions to the Government of India to phase out the MiG-21s.

The NGO that filed the petition wishes to be anonymous and Naqvi spoke on its behalf.
Fantastic, now anonymous NGOs are getting into the fight.

their means pakis right??

srin · Post by **srin** » 06 Mar 2019 02:30

nam wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:Any further information about the Chakoti and Muzzafarabad attacks?
Either press going over board or complete blanket on what was hit.

Even there has been no leaks in the media.

I have a feeling if HM targets were hit, we would not like to publize them.

But because we didn't announce it, and Pakis won't admit any attack by us, we won't know, would we ?

Because of Pakis penchant for ech-and-dee, there are three possible things we can do, each with a different effect.

a) We slap them and tell the world we did it. For public humiliation and also to keep us jingos motivated. Like SS1 and SS2.

b) We slap them quietly and deny it. We can "straighten" the LOC a bit by destroying some border posts, sink a few PN ships - as long as we don't admit, who'll know ? ech-and-dee intact, you see. This is an ideal way to whittle away their combat capability.

c) We slap them quietly and neither confirm nor deny it ("can't comment on ongoing operations"). Like target practice on drones that come near the LoC, or SPICE a few places. And keep the ISPR busy.

All three are feasible - and we just have to pick the right target for the right outcome.